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DOJ / IRS coordinated policy to investigate Tea Party g... - 4/17/2014 10:58:59 AM   
Phydeaux


Posts: 4828
Joined: 1/4/2004
Status: offline 		Yeah. No scandal here.

Unless you count the most politicized DOJ in history coordinating with the IRS to silence political opponents.

Tell me again why the DOJ dropped the charges against black panthers engaged in vote

http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2014/04/16/uncovered-emails-show-lerner-talked-with-justice-about-irs-targeting/r intimidation?

Here's a lovely quote:

May 10, 2013: In an email to an aide responding to a request for information from a Washington Post reporter, Lerner admits that she “can’t confirm that there was anyone on the other side of the political spectrum” who had been targeted by the IRS

May 15, 2013: In an email from an aide to Lerner, the aide specifically mentions “Tea Party Organizations, the “Tea Party movement,” and “Tea Party Patriots” as organizations targeted by the IRS.


May 8, 2013: Lerner to Flax

I got a call today from Richard Pilger Director Elections Crimes Branch at DOJ … He wanted to know who at IRS the DOJ folk s [sic] could talk to about Sen. Whitehouse idea at the hearing that DOJ could piece together false statement cases about applicants who “lied” on their 1024s –saying they weren’t planning on doing political activity, and then turning around and making large visible political expenditures. DOJ is feeling like it needs to respond, but want to talk to the right folks at IRS to see whether there are impediments from our side and what, if any damage this might do to IRS programs.

I told him that sounded like we might need several folks from IRS…

May 9, 2013: Flax to Lerner

I think we should do it – also need to include CI [Criminal Investigation Division], which we can help coordinate. Also, we need to reach out to FEC. Does it make sense to consider including them in this or keep it separate?

< Message edited by Phydeaux -- 4/17/2014 11:03:15 AM >
Profile   Post #: 1
RE: DOJ / IRS coordinated policy to investigate Tea Par... - 4/17/2014 11:08:19 AM   
DomKen


Posts: 19457
Joined: 7/4/2004
From: Chicago, IL
Status: offline 		It's been known for well over a year that groups from both sides were targeted.

(in reply to Phydeaux)
Profile   Post #: 2
RE: DOJ / IRS coordinated policy to investigate Tea Par... - 4/17/2014 11:33:30 AM   
cloudboy


Posts: 7306
Joined: 12/14/2005
Status: offline
Fox loves the IRS story more than CNN loves disasters and airplane disappearances.

(in reply to DomKen)
Profile   Post #: 3
RE: DOJ / IRS coordinated policy to investigate Tea Par... - 4/17/2014 12:08:04 PM   
subrob1967


Posts: 4591
Joined: 9/13/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: DomKen

It's been known for well over a year that groups from both sides were targeted.


Sorry Ken, but as usual, you're wrong about the facts.


_____________________________

http://www.extra-life.org/

(in reply to DomKen)
Profile   Post #: 4
RE: DOJ / IRS coordinated policy to investigate Tea Par... - 4/17/2014 12:24:24 PM   
joether


Posts: 5195
Joined: 7/24/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: subrob1967
quote:

ORIGINAL: DomKen
It's been known for well over a year that groups from both sides were targeted.

Sorry Ken, but as usual, you're wrong about the facts.


DK is actually correct. Many different groups on either side were 'targeted'. The reality was the IRS had limited resources to handle a very large set of tasks. Logic would be to break things up and study them in smaller bites rather than one large mess. An it seems the conservative groups were more prone to breaking laws then the progressive ones. They did have motive: they distrust the government and felt the laws did not apply to them. You know, typical conservative rhetoric!

There are the facts, that all groups were equally targeted. And then there's the conservative misinformation machine stating only conservative groups were targeted. Only a fool would accept the conservative media at face value. An apparently there exists a staggering number of fools with conservative views.

I'm not going to argue this further. The facts are known and its conservatives that cant be adult enough with the information. Just like every other issue in this nation....

(in reply to subrob1967)
Profile   Post #: 5
RE: DOJ / IRS coordinated policy to investigate Tea Par... - 4/17/2014 12:25:07 PM   
BamaD


Posts: 20687
Joined: 2/27/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: DomKen

It's been known for well over a year that groups from both sides were targeted.

It is wrong to target groups, and it has been known that the vast majority
of groups targeted were conservative.
If you read the emails you would know that they were discussing
DOJ cooking up false accusations against conservatives so that IRS
could "investigate" them.

_____________________________

Government ranges from a necessary evil to an intolerable one. Thomas Paine

People don't believe they can defend themselves because they have guns, they have guns because they believe they can defend themselves.

(in reply to DomKen)
Profile   Post #: 6
RE: DOJ / IRS coordinated policy to investigate Tea Par... - 4/17/2014 12:28:18 PM   
mnottertail


Posts: 60698
Joined: 11/3/2004
Status: offline 		LOL. So, where are the emails? We haven't seen them yet. What we see is supposedly redacted clippings from emails, that aint at all the same thing.



_____________________________

Have they not divided the prey; to every man a damsel or two? Judges 5:30


(in reply to BamaD)
Profile   Post #: 7
RE: DOJ / IRS coordinated policy to investigate Tea Par... - 4/17/2014 12:38:57 PM   
joether


Posts: 5195
Joined: 7/24/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: BamaD
quote:

ORIGINAL: DomKen
It's been known for well over a year that groups from both sides were targeted.

It is wrong to target groups, and it has been known that the vast majority
of groups targeted were conservative.
If you read the emails you would know that they were discussing
DOJ cooking up false accusations against conservatives so that IRS
could "investigate" them.


There were many more conservative groups than progressive at the time. So logically, the IRS 'targeted' more conservative groups. The reality is, the same percentage on all sides was analyzed. We do not see any conservatives bitching that liberal groups were targeted, do we? If they were attacking the IRS for setting up this scheme and hitting everyone....they'd have a leg to stand on. Since they do not, its politically motivated.

When people are doing things for clear political motivation, it taints and corrupts their viewpoint of being 'honest and in the right direction for America'. Unless conservatives are going to defend those liberal groups that were targeted to the same level, why should anyone take them seriously?




(in reply to BamaD)
Profile   Post #: 8
RE: DOJ / IRS coordinated policy to investigate Tea Par... - 4/17/2014 12:43:35 PM   
DomKen


Posts: 19457
Joined: 7/4/2004
From: Chicago, IL
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: BamaD


quote:

ORIGINAL: DomKen

It's been known for well over a year that groups from both sides were targeted.

It is wrong to target groups, and it has been known that the vast majority
of groups targeted were conservative.
If you read the emails you would know that they were discussing
DOJ cooking up false accusations against conservatives so that IRS
could "investigate" them.

Actually it is correct to target political groups since the status is specifically not meant for them. I know I've explained this to you before.

(in reply to BamaD)
Profile   Post #: 9
RE: DOJ / IRS coordinated policy to investigate Tea Par... - 4/17/2014 2:42:40 PM   
DesideriScuri


Posts: 12225
Joined: 1/18/2012
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: subrob1967
quote:

ORIGINAL: DomKen
It's been known for well over a year that groups from both sides were targeted.

Sorry Ken, but as usual, you're wrong about the facts.


From your link:
    quote:

    The Treasury inspector general's office said Thursday that while the Internal Revenue Service screened both progressive and conservative groups between 2010 and 2012, the latter faced more scrutiny.


Groups from both sides were targeted (what Ken stated).

Conservative groups faced more scrutiny. Some might gloss over that by noting (correctly) that both sides were targeted, and that more liberal groups were denied status.

All applications should be scrutinized equally, regardless of which way they lean politically. Neither side should be "targeted." That conservative groups were "targeted" and most still were granted status seems to show that the increased scrutiny wasn't necessary.

I think the bigger issue was that the application process was longer than it should have been. It's possible that was the entire purpose, too. Even if granting status is still done, making it more difficult for one group over another for subjective reasons is wrong. That's what seems to be what happened.

Ken was correct, as difficult as that might be to admit (it just seems so wrong because it's so rare).



_____________________________

What I support:

  • A Conservative interpretation of the US Constitution
  • Personal Responsibility
  • Help for the truly needy
  • Limited Government
  • Consumption Tax (non-profit charities and food exempt)

(in reply to subrob1967)
Profile   Post #: 10
RE: DOJ / IRS coordinated policy to investigate Tea Par... - 4/17/2014 3:06:32 PM   
subrob1967


Posts: 4591
Joined: 9/13/2004
Status: offline 		No, he's not. He said the story about Conservatives getting scrutinised was debunked.

And am I the only one who has a problem with Lerner funneling information to the ranking Democrat on the committee?

_____________________________

http://www.extra-life.org/

(in reply to DesideriScuri)
Profile   Post #: 11
RE: DOJ / IRS coordinated policy to investigate Tea Par... - 4/17/2014 3:16:57 PM   
DomKen


Posts: 19457
Joined: 7/4/2004
From: Chicago, IL
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: subrob1967

No, he's not. He said the story about Conservatives getting scrutinised was debunked.

No I did not.

(in reply to subrob1967)
Profile   Post #: 12
RE: DOJ / IRS coordinated policy to investigate Tea Par... - 4/17/2014 3:19:11 PM   
DomKen


Posts: 19457
Joined: 7/4/2004
From: Chicago, IL
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: DesideriScuri

quote:

ORIGINAL: subrob1967
quote:

ORIGINAL: DomKen
It's been known for well over a year that groups from both sides were targeted.

Sorry Ken, but as usual, you're wrong about the facts.


From your link:
    quote:

    The Treasury inspector general's office said Thursday that while the Internal Revenue Service screened both progressive and conservative groups between 2010 and 2012, the latter faced more scrutiny.



Groups from both sides were targeted (what Ken stated).

Conservative groups faced more scrutiny. Some might gloss over that by noting (correctly) that both sides were targeted, and that more liberal groups were denied status.

All applications should be scrutinized equally, regardless of which way they lean politically. Neither side should be "targeted." That conservative groups were "targeted" and most still were granted status seems to show that the increased scrutiny wasn't necessary.

I think the bigger issue was that the application process was longer than it should have been. It's possible that was the entire purpose, too. Even if granting status is still done, making it more difficult for one group over another for subjective reasons is wrong. That's what seems to be what happened.

Ken was correct, as difficult as that might be to admit (it just seems so wrong because it's so rare).



Actually in this case all political groups should be targeted since this tax status specifically excludes political groups.

(in reply to DesideriScuri)
Profile   Post #: 13
RE: DOJ / IRS coordinated policy to investigate Tea Par... - 4/17/2014 3:49:48 PM   
DesideriScuri


Posts: 12225
Joined: 1/18/2012
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: DomKen
quote:

ORIGINAL: DesideriScuri
quote:

ORIGINAL: subrob1967
quote:

ORIGINAL: DomKen
It's been known for well over a year that groups from both sides were targeted.

Sorry Ken, but as usual, you're wrong about the facts.

From your link:
    quote:

    The Treasury inspector general's office said Thursday that while the Internal Revenue Service screened both progressive and conservative groups between 2010 and 2012, the latter faced more scrutiny.

Groups from both sides were targeted (what Ken stated).
Conservative groups faced more scrutiny. Some might gloss over that by noting (correctly) that both sides were targeted, and that more liberal groups were denied status.
All applications should be scrutinized equally, regardless of which way they lean politically. Neither side should be "targeted." That conservative groups were "targeted" and most still were granted status seems to show that the increased scrutiny wasn't necessary.
I think the bigger issue was that the application process was longer than it should have been. It's possible that was the entire purpose, too. Even if granting status is still done, making it more difficult for one group over another for subjective reasons is wrong. That's what seems to be what happened.
Ken was correct, as difficult as that might be to admit (it just seems so wrong because it's so rare).

Actually in this case all political groups should be targeted since this tax status specifically excludes political groups.


No, Ken. All applications should be checked into. There should be no "targeting" (wouldn't that be profiling?) of any group, Liberal, Progressive, Conservative, Libertarian, Socialist, Communist, Librarian, etc. It seems there were some groups profiled, and those groups were subject to extra scrutiny. Some were simply delayed for over a year. Regardless of which political bent the groups seemed to follow, that's wrong. If the DOJ was complicit in a scheme to give extra scrutiny to seemingly conservative groups makes it even worse. It may not have anything to do with Obama (and I don't think it does), but if the DOJ was involved, Holder is likely to be complicit, and should be held accountable.


_____________________________

What I support:

  • A Conservative interpretation of the US Constitution
  • Personal Responsibility
  • Help for the truly needy
  • Limited Government
  • Consumption Tax (non-profit charities and food exempt)

(in reply to DomKen)
Profile   Post #: 14
RE: DOJ / IRS coordinated policy to investigate Tea Par... - 4/17/2014 4:43:30 PM   
DomKen


Posts: 19457
Joined: 7/4/2004
From: Chicago, IL
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: DesideriScuri

quote:

ORIGINAL: DomKen
quote:

ORIGINAL: DesideriScuri
quote:

ORIGINAL: subrob1967
quote:

ORIGINAL: DomKen
It's been known for well over a year that groups from both sides were targeted.

Sorry Ken, but as usual, you're wrong about the facts.

From your link:
    quote:

    The Treasury inspector general's office said Thursday that while the Internal Revenue Service screened both progressive and conservative groups between 2010 and 2012, the latter faced more scrutiny.


Groups from both sides were targeted (what Ken stated).
Conservative groups faced more scrutiny. Some might gloss over that by noting (correctly) that both sides were targeted, and that more liberal groups were denied status.
All applications should be scrutinized equally, regardless of which way they lean politically. Neither side should be "targeted." That conservative groups were "targeted" and most still were granted status seems to show that the increased scrutiny wasn't necessary.
I think the bigger issue was that the application process was longer than it should have been. It's possible that was the entire purpose, too. Even if granting status is still done, making it more difficult for one group over another for subjective reasons is wrong. That's what seems to be what happened.
Ken was correct, as difficult as that might be to admit (it just seems so wrong because it's so rare).

Actually in this case all political groups should be targeted since this tax status specifically excludes political groups.


No, Ken. All applications should be checked into. There should be no "targeting" (wouldn't that be profiling?) of any group, Liberal, Progressive, Conservative, Libertarian, Socialist, Communist, Librarian, etc. It seems there were some groups profiled, and those groups were subject to extra scrutiny. Some were simply delayed for over a year. Regardless of which political bent the groups seemed to follow, that's wrong. If the DOJ was complicit in a scheme to give extra scrutiny to seemingly conservative groups makes it even worse. It may not have anything to do with Obama (and I don't think it does), but if the DOJ was involved, Holder is likely to be complicit, and should be held accountable.


I'll repeat, the tax status these groups were applying for is not for political groups so none of the application should have been approved at all so all of the groups should have been targeted for extra scrutiny and turned down because that is the law.

(in reply to DesideriScuri)
Profile   Post #: 15
RE: DOJ / IRS coordinated policy to investigate Tea Par... - 4/17/2014 5:04:39 PM   
cloudboy


Posts: 7306
Joined: 12/14/2005
Status: offline
Why would you want to target the groups actually breaking US tax laws? Who wants that kind of efficiency?

(in reply to DomKen)
Profile   Post #: 16
RE: DOJ / IRS coordinated policy to investigate Tea Par... - 4/17/2014 7:34:36 PM   
LookieNoNookie


Posts: 12216
Joined: 8/9/2008
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: subrob1967


quote:

ORIGINAL: DomKen

It's been known for well over a year that groups from both sides were targeted.


Sorry Ken, but as usual, you're wrong about the facts.





WHOAAAAAAH!!!!! Ken said something ridiculous and based not even remotely in fact??????

(I don't believe it).

< Message edited by LookieNoNookie -- 4/17/2014 7:35:19 PM >

(in reply to subrob1967)
Profile   Post #: 17
RE: DOJ / IRS coordinated policy to investigate Tea Par... - 4/17/2014 7:36:58 PM   
LookieNoNookie


Posts: 12216
Joined: 8/9/2008
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: DesideriScuri

quote:

ORIGINAL: subrob1967
quote:

ORIGINAL: DomKen
It's been known for well over a year that groups from both sides were targeted.

Sorry Ken, but as usual, you're wrong about the facts.


From your link:
    quote:

    The Treasury inspector general's office said Thursday that while the Internal Revenue Service screened both progressive and conservative groups between 2010 and 2012, the latter faced more scrutiny.


Groups from both sides were targeted (what Ken stated).

Conservative groups faced more scrutiny. Some might gloss over that by noting (correctly) that both sides were targeted, and that more liberal groups were denied status.

All applications should be scrutinized equally, regardless of which way they lean politically. Neither side should be "targeted." That conservative groups were "targeted" and most still were granted status seems to show that the increased scrutiny wasn't necessary.

I think the bigger issue was that the application process was longer than it should have been. It's possible that was the entire purpose, too. Even if granting status is still done, making it more difficult for one group over another for subjective reasons is wrong. That's what seems to be what happened.

Ken was correct, as difficult as that might be to admit (it just seems so wrong because it's so rare).




This actually makes me want to wretch.

(in reply to DesideriScuri)
Profile   Post #: 18
RE: DOJ / IRS coordinated policy to investigate Tea Par... - 4/17/2014 7:43:38 PM   
BamaD


Posts: 20687
Joined: 2/27/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: DomKen

quote:

ORIGINAL: DesideriScuri

quote:

ORIGINAL: subrob1967
quote:

ORIGINAL: DomKen
It's been known for well over a year that groups from both sides were targeted.

Sorry Ken, but as usual, you're wrong about the facts.


From your link:
    quote:

    The Treasury inspector general's office said Thursday that while the Internal Revenue Service screened both progressive and conservative groups between 2010 and 2012, the latter faced more scrutiny.



Groups from both sides were targeted (what Ken stated).

Conservative groups faced more scrutiny. Some might gloss over that by noting (correctly) that both sides were targeted, and that more liberal groups were denied status.

All applications should be scrutinized equally, regardless of which way they lean politically. Neither side should be "targeted." That conservative groups were "targeted" and most still were granted status seems to show that the increased scrutiny wasn't necessary.

I think the bigger issue was that the application process was longer than it should have been. It's possible that was the entire purpose, too. Even if granting status is still done, making it more difficult for one group over another for subjective reasons is wrong. That's what seems to be what happened.

Ken was correct, as difficult as that might be to admit (it just seems so wrong because it's so rare).



Actually in this case all political groups should be targeted since this tax status specifically excludes political groups.

That isn't targeting
When you get together with DoJ to find excuses to investigate and hold up groups you disagree
with that is targeting means.

_____________________________

Government ranges from a necessary evil to an intolerable one. Thomas Paine

People don't believe they can defend themselves because they have guns, they have guns because they believe they can defend themselves.

(in reply to DomKen)
Profile   Post #: 19
RE: DOJ / IRS coordinated policy to investigate Tea Par... - 4/17/2014 10:53:27 PM   
subrob1967


Posts: 4591
Joined: 9/13/2004
Status: offline 		FR

3 groups with "progressive" in the name were denied tax exempt status. None of them were delayed exempt status for over a year.

Yeah, progressive groups were listed, but none were delayed.



_____________________________

http://www.extra-life.org/

(in reply to BamaD)
Profile   Post #: 20
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