quote:

ORIGINAL: hot4bondage

On Tuesday, SCOTUS made a 5-4 decision on Navarette v. California. They ruled that an anonymous tip can be enough reason for the police to make a traffic stop. Justice Thomas sided with the conservative majority and wrote the majority opinion. However, Justice Scalia (also usually considered conservative) sided with the liberal dissent and wrote a scathing minority opinion, calling the decision a "freedom-destroying cocktail." My 5 minute Google search suggests that the entire internet seems to agree with this dissent.

What really fries my eggs is Justice Thomas' statement that his decision was based on the "totality of circumstances." Let's take a look under the hood. The 911 caller accurately described the vehicle and location and alleged that the driver ran her off the road. The responding officer spotted the vehicle and followed it for 5 minutes, noting that the suspect's driving was "irreproachable." The officer pulled the driver over despite this observation. That's when the officer smelled marijuana and made an arrest.

Does anyone here agree with the majority? Why?

If not, what can we do about it? Hope that they revisit it in 10-20 years? Lobby for more conservative/liberal appointments?

quote:

ORIGINAL: igor2003

Let's say that I am an eye witness to a criminal act and see the perpetrator, whom I know as a really bad and dangerous person, leaving the scene. I COULD call in with the color, make, and model of car that they are driving. But I know that if I have to give my name, etc., that person could find out who I am and come after me for revenge for turning him in. So, instead of reporting what I know, I ignore it just to keep me and my family safe. For such instances, I can see the value in being able to make an anonymous report.

But I can see extreme potential for misuse by both the police and civilians. I can see people with a personal grudge calling in an anonymous tip on someone they are at odds with...perhaps even after "planting" something in their car. Or I can see police, wanting to make a stop but not having a legitimate reason, so a cop with a burner phone makes an "anonymous" call in order to get the okay for the stop.

Just to play devil's advocate...did the anonymous caller in the OP actually get run off the road? Or did she have a grudge against the person in the car she called in about? If she was anonymous, then how do the police know whether it is genuine, or a grudge? The cop said he could see no problem with the person's driving. If he was driving so well, then did he really run someone off the road?

So, while under legitimate circumstances I can see an anonymous call as providing probable cause, I think there is just too much opportunity for abuse to allow it.

quote:

ORIGINAL: BamaD

quote:

ORIGINAL: igor2003

Let's say that I am an eye witness to a criminal act and see the perpetrator, whom I know as a really bad and dangerous person, leaving the scene. I COULD call in with the color, make, and model of car that they are driving. But I know that if I have to give my name, etc., that person could find out who I am and come after me for revenge for turning him in. So, instead of reporting what I know, I ignore it just to keep me and my family safe. For such instances, I can see the value in being able to make an anonymous report.

But I can see extreme potential for misuse by both the police and civilians. I can see people with a personal grudge calling in an anonymous tip on someone they are at odds with...perhaps even after "planting" something in their car. Or I can see police, wanting to make a stop but not having a legitimate reason, so a cop with a burner phone makes an "anonymous" call in order to get the okay for the stop.

Just to play devil's advocate...did the anonymous caller in the OP actually get run off the road? Or did she have a grudge against the person in the car she called in about? If she was anonymous, then how do the police know whether it is genuine, or a grudge? The cop said he could see no problem with the person's driving. If he was driving so well, then did he really run someone off the road?

So, while under legitimate circumstances I can see an anonymous call as providing probable cause, I think there is just too much opportunity for abuse to allow it.

While I see the same questions about an anonymous tip nothing would have happened if the cop hadn't smelled marijuana.

quote:

ORIGINAL: igor2003

quote:

ORIGINAL: BamaD

quote:

ORIGINAL: igor2003

Let's say that I am an eye witness to a criminal act and see the perpetrator, whom I know as a really bad and dangerous person, leaving the scene. I COULD call in with the color, make, and model of car that they are driving. But I know that if I have to give my name, etc., that person could find out who I am and come after me for revenge for turning him in. So, instead of reporting what I know, I ignore it just to keep me and my family safe. For such instances, I can see the value in being able to make an anonymous report.

But I can see extreme potential for misuse by both the police and civilians. I can see people with a personal grudge calling in an anonymous tip on someone they are at odds with...perhaps even after "planting" something in their car. Or I can see police, wanting to make a stop but not having a legitimate reason, so a cop with a burner phone makes an "anonymous" call in order to get the okay for the stop.

Just to play devil's advocate...did the anonymous caller in the OP actually get run off the road? Or did she have a grudge against the person in the car she called in about? If she was anonymous, then how do the police know whether it is genuine, or a grudge? The cop said he could see no problem with the person's driving. If he was driving so well, then did he really run someone off the road?

So, while under legitimate circumstances I can see an anonymous call as providing probable cause, I think there is just too much opportunity for abuse to allow it.

While I see the same questions about an anonymous tip nothing would have happened if the cop hadn't smelled marijuana.

The smelling of the marijuana was after the fact. The question is, was an anonymous call a legitimate reason to make the stop in the first place.

quote:

ORIGINAL: BamaD
As I pointed out in my first post, if they had ignored it and the next time someone died, they
would have been at fault. Yes I know that if that had happened we wouldn't know about this
but if it hadn't been for the marijuana we wouldn't know either.

quote:

ORIGINAL: igor2003

Fuck the marijuana...that isn't the question at hand. What about that do you not understand? If you want to argue THAT question, start another thread. The question is whether an anonymous call is sufficient probable cause to stop someone.

quote:

ORIGINAL: MercTech
Is a traffic stop an unreasonable search?
Gad, so many jurisdictions profile vehicles to stop I always thought any stop would fly in the courts.
Want to get stopped? Just drive north out of the Florida keys at 2am with out of state plates.

• A Conservative interpretation of the US Constitution
  
• Personal Responsibility
  
• Help for the truly needy
  
• Limited Government
  
• Consumption Tax (non-profit charities and food exempt)
  

quote:

ORIGINAL: DesideriScuri

quote:

ORIGINAL: MercTech
Is a traffic stop an unreasonable search?
Gad, so many jurisdictions profile vehicles to stop I always thought any stop would fly in the courts.
Want to get stopped? Just drive north out of the Florida keys at 2am with out of state plates.

I got pulled over on a Sunday the day after getting a new vehicle. I wasn't driving erratically. I followed all rules of the road. My plate was run by a cop behind me who was new. Why he ran my plate, I don't know. He stopped me because my plates "belonged" to a different vehicle than what they were on. When I explained the situation (and luckily had proof of being the owner listed on the plate registration) and he understood that the system likely hadn't updated yet, I was let go.

The officer also mentioned that me and my vehicle weren't what they were looking for anyway. As much as I'd love to have Jedi mind powers, I didn't recall attempting to use them, and really started wondering why my plates were run in the first place (the best thing I could come up with was that he, being a new cop, was just "practicing" using the system).

quote:

ORIGINAL: DesideriScuri

quote:

ORIGINAL: MercTech

Is a traffic stop an unreasonable search?
Gad, so many jurisdictions profile vehicles to stop I always thought any stop would fly in the courts.
Want to get stopped? Just drive north out of the Florida keys at 2am with out of state plates.

I got pulled over on a Sunday the day after getting a new vehicle. I wasn't driving erratically. I followed all rules of the road. My plate was run by a cop behind me who was new. Why he ran my plate, I don't know. He stopped me because my plates "belonged" to a different vehicle than what they were on. When I explained the situation (and luckily had proof of being the owner listed on the plate registration) and he understood that the system likely hadn't updated yet, I was let go.

The officer also mentioned that me and my vehicle weren't what they were looking for anyway. As much as I'd love to have Jedi mind powers, I didn't recall attempting to use them, and really started wondering why my plates were run in the first place (the best thing I could come up with was that he, being a new cop, was just "practicing" using the system).