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RE: Imported: Oklahoma execution botched - 5/1/2014 8:19:56 AM   
thompsonx


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quote:

ORIGINAL: servantforuse

Send all of those on death row to Florida. They have "Old Sparky" down there. It malfunctions once in a while, but is pretty effective.



Including the one in 25 that is ultimately found to be innocent.

(in reply to servantforuse)
Profile   Post #: 21
RE: Imported: Oklahoma execution botched - 5/1/2014 8:38:43 AM   
OwnerFiftyNine


Posts: 100
Joined: 4/27/2014
Status: offline 		This illustrates well the different qualities of the parties.


Liberals while supportive of law and order,don`t support state sponsored homicide not only because of the one in 20 to 25 mistaken convictions but b/c the system is heavily and institutionally biased against blacks and poor people(which is often the case,both).


These are usually( specifically in this case)the same idiots who claim government can`t do anything right......but here.....when a black guy`s to die.....government is all perfect and shit.


While conservatives are willing to take that 1 in 20 to 25 chance with someone else`s life,you can bet if were them or a loved one on the dock,they wouldn`t be so blood thirsty.


It`s a lack of empathy and some pretty disgusting callousness that separates the parties .


We wouldn`t see this post if it wasn`t the case that the gov. is taking flack from normal folks and looking deer in head light defensive.

< Message edited by OwnerFiftyNine -- 5/1/2014 8:44:32 AM >

(in reply to thompsonx)
Profile   Post #: 22
RE: Imported: Oklahoma execution botched - 5/1/2014 10:15:11 AM   
Musicmystery


Posts: 30259
Joined: 3/14/2005
Status: offline 		Eighth Amendment to the United States Constitution

Excessive bail shall not be required, nor excessive fines imposed, nor cruel and unusual punishments inflicted.

Damn Document.

(in reply to TheHeretic)
Profile   Post #: 23
RE: Imported: Oklahoma execution botched - 5/1/2014 11:20:04 AM   
thishereboi


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quote:

ORIGINAL: DomKen


I'm not sure about anyone else but the idea that 1 in 25 people sentenced to death in this nation are likely innocent makes me oppose capital punishment.



I would have to agree with this also. If you add to that the number of people who were locked up but not sentenced to death, and then later found to be innocent, I bet the percent would go up. To me that proves there is too much chance that you are going to kill the wrong guy and that's not something you can take back.

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(in reply to DomKen)
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RE: Imported: Oklahoma execution botched - 5/1/2014 11:57:36 AM   
freedomdwarf1


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quote:

ORIGINAL: thishereboi
....To me that proves there is too much chance that you are going to kill the wrong guy and that's not something you can take back.

And that's pretty much the reasoning behind Europe's stance on the death penalty and also closely linked with the gun laws.


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RE: Imported: Oklahoma execution botched - 5/1/2014 12:17:51 PM   
DomKen


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From: Chicago, IL
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quote:

ORIGINAL: thishereboi


quote:

ORIGINAL: DomKen


I'm not sure about anyone else but the idea that 1 in 25 people sentenced to death in this nation are likely innocent makes me oppose capital punishment.



I would have to agree with this also. If you add to that the number of people who were locked up but not sentenced to death, and then later found to be innocent, I bet the percent would go up. To me that proves there is too much chance that you are going to kill the wrong guy and that's not something you can take back.

If you read the study I posted it says that 4% is a minimum and they believe the actual figure would be higher.

(in reply to thishereboi)
Profile   Post #: 26
RE: Imported: Oklahoma execution botched - 5/1/2014 3:43:54 PM   
thishereboi


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quote:

ORIGINAL: DomKen

quote:

ORIGINAL: thishereboi


quote:

ORIGINAL: DomKen


I'm not sure about anyone else but the idea that 1 in 25 people sentenced to death in this nation are likely innocent makes me oppose capital punishment.



I would have to agree with this also. If you add to that the number of people who were locked up but not sentenced to death, and then later found to be innocent, I bet the percent would go up. To me that proves there is too much chance that you are going to kill the wrong guy and that's not something you can take back.

If you read the study I posted it says that 4% is a minimum and they believe the actual figure would be higher.


Actually it says that right in the post I replied to. But I am not sure what your point is. You do realize I was agreeing with you, right?

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(in reply to DomKen)
Profile   Post #: 27
RE: Imported: Oklahoma execution botched - 5/1/2014 4:59:51 PM   
DomKen


Posts: 19457
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From: Chicago, IL
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quote:

ORIGINAL: thishereboi


quote:

ORIGINAL: DomKen

quote:

ORIGINAL: thishereboi


quote:

ORIGINAL: DomKen


I'm not sure about anyone else but the idea that 1 in 25 people sentenced to death in this nation are likely innocent makes me oppose capital punishment.



I would have to agree with this also. If you add to that the number of people who were locked up but not sentenced to death, and then later found to be innocent, I bet the percent would go up. To me that proves there is too much chance that you are going to kill the wrong guy and that's not something you can take back.

If you read the study I posted it says that 4% is a minimum and they believe the actual figure would be higher.


Actually it says that right in the post I replied to. But I am not sure what your point is. You do realize I was agreeing with you, right?

I was pointing out that I'd already posted that fact if you had bothered reading the provided link.

(in reply to thishereboi)
Profile   Post #: 28
RE: Imported: Oklahoma execution botched - 5/1/2014 5:40:04 PM   
thishereboi


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Joined: 6/19/2008
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quote:

ORIGINAL: DomKen

quote:

ORIGINAL: thishereboi


quote:

ORIGINAL: DomKen

quote:

ORIGINAL: thishereboi


quote:

ORIGINAL: DomKen


I'm not sure about anyone else but the idea that 1 in 25 people sentenced to death in this nation are likely innocent makes me oppose capital punishment.



I would have to agree with this also. If you add to that the number of people who were locked up but not sentenced to death, and then later found to be innocent, I bet the percent would go up. To me that proves there is too much chance that you are going to kill the wrong guy and that's not something you can take back.

If you read the study I posted it says that 4% is a minimum and they believe the actual figure would be higher.


Actually it says that right in the post I replied to. But I am not sure what your point is. You do realize I was agreeing with you, right?

I was pointing out that I'd already posted that fact if you had bothered reading the provided link.



and I was agreeing with you. So sorry, I will try not to make that mistake in the future.

_____________________________

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This here is the boi formerly known as orfunboi


(in reply to DomKen)
Profile   Post #: 29
RE: Imported: Oklahoma execution botched - 5/1/2014 6:05:45 PM   
kdsub


Posts: 12180
Joined: 8/16/2007
Status: offline 		I agree with you here thompsonx...far too many innocent men and women have been wrongly executed. I do want to see stronger rules of evidence...and I would want those rules to be consistent on a national level before I would wholeheartedly embrace the Death Penalty.

But....

There are many instances... in fact the majority where there is no doubt of guilt and if these cases would be consistent with new stringent laws then I am for execution. I think this is possible with today's criminal techniques.

Butch

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Profile   Post #: 30
RE: Imported: Oklahoma execution botched - 5/1/2014 6:15:49 PM   
thishereboi


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Joined: 6/19/2008
Status: offline 		I could go along with that.

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(in reply to kdsub)
Profile   Post #: 31
RE: Imported: Oklahoma execution botched - 5/1/2014 7:27:23 PM   
TheHeretic


Posts: 19100
Joined: 3/25/2007
From: California, USA
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Musicmystery

Eighth Amendment to the United States Constitution

Excessive bail shall not be required, nor excessive fines imposed, nor cruel and unusual punishments inflicted.

Damn Document.



No person shall ... be deprived of LIFE, liberty, or property, without due process of law.

Damn document, indeed.

_____________________________

If you lose one sense, your other senses are enhanced.
That's why people with no sense of humor have such an inflated sense of self-importance.


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Profile   Post #: 32
RE: Imported: Oklahoma execution botched - 5/1/2014 7:45:38 PM   
TheHeretic


Posts: 19100
Joined: 3/25/2007
From: California, USA
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quote:

ORIGINAL: DomKen
What is unethical about asking about your use of sarcasm when it is pointed out that innocent men have been executed?

Does it bother you or not?



There was no sarcasm, Ken, and do keep in mind that your shit will be called shit down here.

I have a problem with any innocent person being convicted of any crime, regardless of the punishment imposed. Your dude, IIRC, was convicted of murdering his three children, by burning the house down with them trapped inside. He stayed out in the yard, and watched it burn.

Advances in fire science may have discredited portions of the prosecution's theory of the case, related to the specific details of how the arson was committed, but it certainly doesn't prove he didn't start the fire which he was so eager to immediately insist was started by squirrels, while showing no interest in the status of the children.

It's a shame there isn't an honest bone in your body, or you would simply concede my point that it is damn hard to find a good poster child for your cause. Even if he was innocent, he ain't it.

_____________________________

If you lose one sense, your other senses are enhanced.
That's why people with no sense of humor have such an inflated sense of self-importance.


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Profile   Post #: 33
RE: Imported: Oklahoma execution botched - 5/1/2014 8:00:58 PM   
thompsonx


Posts: 23322
Joined: 10/1/2006
Status: offline 		It's a shame there isn't an honest bone in your body, or you would simply concede my point that it is damn hard to find a good poster child for your cause.

It is a shame there isn't an honest bone in your body, or you would simply conceed that 1 in 25 of those executed are inocent and you don't give a shit.

(in reply to TheHeretic)
Profile   Post #: 34
RE: Imported: Oklahoma execution botched - 5/1/2014 8:20:33 PM   
DomKen


Posts: 19457
Joined: 7/4/2004
From: Chicago, IL
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: TheHeretic


quote:

ORIGINAL: DomKen
What is unethical about asking about your use of sarcasm when it is pointed out that innocent men have been executed?

Does it bother you or not?



There was no sarcasm, Ken, and do keep in mind that your shit will be called shit down here.

I have a problem with any innocent person being convicted of any crime, regardless of the punishment imposed. Your dude, IIRC, was convicted of murdering his three children, by burning the house down with them trapped inside. He stayed out in the yard, and watched it burn.

Advances in fire science may have discredited portions of the prosecution's theory of the case, related to the specific details of how the arson was committed, but it certainly doesn't prove he didn't start the fire which he was so eager to immediately insist was started by squirrels, while showing no interest in the status of the children.

It's a shame there isn't an honest bone in your body, or you would simply concede my point that it is damn hard to find a good poster child for your cause. Even if he was innocent, he ain't it.

Actually the fire science proved he didn't start the fire. It was an electrical short and he was burned trying to get his children out. A neighbor who he'd had conflicts with said he didn't seem upset when the fire fighters were trying to get the fire under control.
http://www.innocenceproject.org/Content/Cameron_Todd_Willingham_Wrongfully_Convicted_and_Executed_in_Texas.php
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cameron_Todd_Willingham#Witnesses

How'd you like to be convicted of killing your kids because of old wives tales and a neighbor who didn't like you interpreting your emotional state?

If you had an honest bone in your entire body you'd admit you just made shit up about an innocent man.

And BTW the rolling eyes emoticon was either sarcastic or it made no sense at all. So which was it? Did you lie when you claimed you weren't being sarcastic or did you make a nonsensical post?

< Message edited by DomKen -- 5/1/2014 8:21:53 PM >

(in reply to TheHeretic)
Profile   Post #: 35
RE: Imported: Oklahoma execution botched - 5/1/2014 8:57:55 PM   
TheHeretic


Posts: 19100
Joined: 3/25/2007
From: California, USA
Status: offline 		So an utterly biased site, and Wikipedia are all you need, huh, Ken? It's old and sad, how your standards of evidence vary so widely, depending on the convenience of the moment.

When we use the death penalty, we need to be certain the right person is on the receiving end, but some crimes demand it, and those who cannot handle that aren't more civilized. They are merely cowards.

_____________________________

If you lose one sense, your other senses are enhanced.
That's why people with no sense of humor have such an inflated sense of self-importance.


(in reply to DomKen)
Profile   Post #: 36
RE: Imported: Oklahoma execution botched - 5/1/2014 9:45:15 PM   
DomKen


Posts: 19457
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From: Chicago, IL
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quote:

ORIGINAL: TheHeretic

So an utterly biased site, and Wikipedia are all you need, huh, Ken? It's old and sad, how your standards of evidence vary so widely, depending on the convenience of the moment.

When we use the death penalty, we need to be certain the right person is on the receiving end, but some crimes demand it, and those who cannot handle that aren't more civilized. They are merely cowards.

The innocence project page includes the trial transcript and links to the Chicago Tribune stories (a newspaper with a well known conservative editorial board) as well as the findings of the Texas Forensic Science Commission that all prove his innocence. Which you'd know if you'd actually looked.

How much more proof would it take? Every independent group that has looked at the case says Willingham was innocent. Even the jailhouse snitch who claimed he confessed has recanted.

How many innocent people should be put to death to satisfy your blood lust?

(in reply to TheHeretic)
Profile   Post #: 37
RE: Imported: Oklahoma execution botched - 5/1/2014 9:50:58 PM   
TheHeretic


Posts: 19100
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From: California, USA
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quote:

ORIGINAL: DomKen

How many innocent people should be put to death to satisfy your blood lust?



Fuck you, Ken. If that's how you want it...

How many more innocents should be raped, tortured, or buried alive because of your cowardice? How many stupid little car thieves, and drunk drivers should be delivered to such predators in prison, because you not only lack the balls to do what needs to be done, but must hide your fear by demonizing those who don't?

Why do you love killers so much?

< Message edited by TheHeretic -- 5/1/2014 9:51:24 PM >

_____________________________

If you lose one sense, your other senses are enhanced.
That's why people with no sense of humor have such an inflated sense of self-importance.


(in reply to DomKen)
Profile   Post #: 38
RE: Imported: Oklahoma execution botched - 5/1/2014 9:55:41 PM   
DomKen


Posts: 19457
Joined: 7/4/2004
From: Chicago, IL
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: TheHeretic

quote:

ORIGINAL: DomKen

How many innocent people should be put to death to satisfy your blood lust?



Fuck you, Ken. If that's how you want it...

How many more innocents should be raped, tortured, or buried alive because of your cowardice? How many stupid little car thieves, and drunk drivers should be delivered to such predators in prison, because you not only lack the balls to do what needs to be done, but must hide your fear by demonizing those who don't?

Why do you love killers so much?

I never wrote that criminals shouldn't be imprisoned nor that our prisons should not be safe. That is on you just like the fact that you lied about the Willingham case and then dismissed a mountain of evidence proving he is actually innocent.

You are the one who has always insisted on killing people despite the inescapable fact that our system convicts innocent people. I just want to know how many it will take to satisfy you? Clearly proving 1 innocent man has been executed didn't change your mind. Will 10? 100? How much innocent blood has to be shed?

(in reply to TheHeretic)
Profile   Post #: 39
RE: Imported: Oklahoma execution botched - 5/1/2014 10:33:15 PM   
TheHeretic


Posts: 19100
Joined: 3/25/2007
From: California, USA
Status: offline 		I know you are unable to comprehend the difference between irony and sarcasm, Ken, but go for a stetch here.

Does it occur to you that by insisting on the absolute nature of your theory of the facts, you are engaging in exactly the behavior you allege the prosecutors did to get their conviction?

I'll tell you what. When Christopher Hubbart, who should have been put down decades ago, rapes again, why don't you come on out to CA and explain to his victim/s how much better we are as society because we didn't end his menace permanently.



_____________________________

If you lose one sense, your other senses are enhanced.
That's why people with no sense of humor have such an inflated sense of self-importance.


(in reply to DomKen)
Profile   Post #: 40
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