quote:

ORIGINAL: tweakabelle

There is no good or compelling evidence that capital punishment has any deterrent effect on crime. There is ample evidence to show that from time to time, innocent people are convicted of capital crimes and executed for their alleged role in those crimes. To put it simply, the death penalty doesn't deter crime, it doesn't work and sometimes kills the wrong people. In the light of the above, one may well ask, What does the death penalty actually achieve? One obvious answer is that it satisfies the need for revenge/blood lust that afflicts some folk.

Unless and until someone develops a foolproof method of guaranteeing only guilty people get executed, the argument for the death penalty does't get past first base.

quote:

ORIGINAL: SadistDave

quote:

ORIGINAL: tweakabelle

There is no good or compelling evidence that capital punishment has any deterrent effect on crime. There is ample evidence to show that from time to time, innocent people are convicted of capital crimes and executed for their alleged role in those crimes. To put it simply, the death penalty doesn't deter crime, it doesn't work and sometimes kills the wrong people. In the light of the above, one may well ask, What does the death penalty actually achieve? One obvious answer is that it satisfies the need for revenge/blood lust that afflicts some folk.

Unless and until someone develops a foolproof method of guaranteeing only guilty people get executed, the argument for the death penalty does't get past first base.

Dead people don't commit crimes. That fact alone is pretty compelling evidence that the death penalty does, in fact, deter crime.

As for innocent people being killed from time to time. I'm really kind of fine with that.

Beyond the actual conviction; it's not like people are sentenced and taken outside to be shot. Death row inmates have years, sometimes decades, to find one credible ounce of evidence that just casts doubt on their guilt. They don't have to even prove they were innocent.... they just have to provide a reasonable doubt that the prosecutions evidence proves their guilt. Even the number of legal loopholes that can commute a death sentence are staggering.

If an actual innocent death row inmate is either too stupid or too unlucky to provide a reasonable doubt with all the opportunities and resources at their disposal; then it's a safe bet that society is probably better off without them anyway.

Is it sad? Yes.

Am I over it? Yes.

-SD-

quote:

ORIGINAL: SadistDave

As for innocent people being killed from time to time. I'm really kind of fine with that.

[ .... ]
If an actual innocent death row inmate is either too stupid or too unlucky to provide a reasonable doubt with all the opportunities and resources at their disposal; then it's a safe bet that society is probably better off without them anyway.

Is it sad? Yes.

Am I over it? Yes.

-SD-

quote:

ORIGINAL: TheHeretic

I know you are unable to comprehend the difference between irony and sarcasm, Ken, but go for a stetch here.

Does it occur to you that by insisting on the absolute nature of your theory of the facts, you are engaging in exactly the behavior you allege the prosecutors did to get their conviction?

quote:

I'll tell you what. When Christopher Hubbart, who should have been put down decades ago, rapes again, why don't you come on out to CA and explain to his victim/s how much better we are as society because we didn't end his menace permanently.

quote:

ORIGINAL: DomKen

Do you volunteer your most loved to be the next one? If not why not?

quote:

ORIGINAL: tweakabelle

quote:

ORIGINAL: SadistDave

As for innocent people being killed from time to time. I'm really kind of fine with that.

[ .... ]
If an actual innocent death row inmate is either too stupid or too unlucky to provide a reasonable doubt with all the opportunities and resources at their disposal; then it's a safe bet that society is probably better off without them anyway.

Is it sad? Yes.

Am I over it? Yes.

-SD-

I found this post astonishing. Why? I am used to seeing your posts denounce 'Big Government's' attempts to intrude upon citizens' rights. Yet here we find you comfortable to the point of being blasé about granting the State the most powerful right of all - the right to end life - and not at all concerned whether the Govt gets it right or wrong. You don't even mention the fact that executing the wrong person is the most grievous infringement of individual rights by the State imaginable. You even have the gall to suggest it's the person's own fault for being found (wrongfully) guilty

Is there any alternative available other than concluding that your opposition to 'Big Govt' is not based on any principle but is purely expedient and selective? If there is an alternative it is not immediately apparent to me.

That said, I found the cynical acceptance of the State wrongfully killing its own citizens shocking. In this view, it appears that not all human lives have the same value, not all citizens have the same rights. I can't help wondering if this is related to the likelihood of the person wrongfully killed by the State being black or Hispanic - given the gross over-representation of minority groups on Death Row and the US prison system generally.
.

quote:

ORIGINAL: tweakabelle
Unless and until someone develops a foolproof method of guaranteeing only guilty people get executed, the argument for the death penalty does't get past first base.

quote:

ORIGINAL: SadistDave

quote:

ORIGINAL: tweakabelle

quote:

ORIGINAL: SadistDave

As for innocent people being killed from time to time. I'm really kind of fine with that.

[ .... ]
If an actual innocent death row inmate is either too stupid or too unlucky to provide a reasonable doubt with all the opportunities and resources at their disposal; then it's a safe bet that society is probably better off without them anyway.

Is it sad? Yes.

Am I over it? Yes.

-SD-

I found this post astonishing. Why? I am used to seeing your posts denounce 'Big Government's' attempts to intrude upon citizens' rights. Yet here we find you comfortable to the point of being blasé about granting the State the most powerful right of all - the right to end life - and not at all concerned whether the Govt gets it right or wrong. You don't even mention the fact that executing the wrong person is the most grievous infringement of individual rights by the State imaginable. You even have the gall to suggest it's the person's own fault for being found (wrongfully) guilty

Is there any alternative available other than concluding that your opposition to 'Big Govt' is not based on any principle but is purely expedient and selective? If there is an alternative it is not immediately apparent to me.

That said, I found the cynical acceptance of the State wrongfully killing its own citizens shocking. In this view, it appears that not all human lives have the same value, not all citizens have the same rights. I can't help wondering if this is related to the likelihood of the person wrongfully killed by the State being black or Hispanic - given the gross over-representation of minority groups on Death Row and the US prison system generally.
.

Oh please! Stop pretending to be shocked.

We've gone round and around about this sort of shit before. You fucking libs champion the wholesale murder of innocents in abortion mills and then get all dramatic that someone over the age of consent might accidentally get his ticket punched because he's too stupid to convince anyone of his innocence. This is Collarme, not the fucking Oscar committee.

I am vocally pro-death. Old, young, rich, poor.... I don't discriminate. I don't dance around the issue for the sake of political correctness. That's a game liberals play. In the past I've suggested that liberals should be allowed to abort their children up to the age of 18, expressed a sincere desire that people who think guns are evil find themselves in aposition where they will be forced to defend themselves against armed assailants without them, supported the right for people to commit suicide (with or without assistance), AND have been very vocal about my belief that we should only keep convicts on death row for about 30 minutes before we put a bullet in their heads. The only people who will be impressed with your faux shock and amazement over anything I say about the states right to whack death row inmates are simply not paying attention.

-SD-

quote:

ORIGINAL: SadistDave


Oh please! Stop pretending to be shocked.

No one is pretending.

We've gone round and around about this sort of shit before. You fucking libs champion the wholesale murder of innocents in abortion mills

Only morons think that a fetus is a human being. Doctors, on the other hand, will explane to those with the intelligence to listen the "facts" about the birds and bees.


and then get all dramatic that someone over the age of consent might accidentally get his ticket punched because he's too stupid to convince anyone of his innocence.

Last time I checked supidity was not a capital offense...which is pretty kewel for you.


This is Collarme, not the fucking Oscar committee.

So logic is not suppose to live here?

I am vocally pro-death. Old, young, rich, poor.... I don't discriminate.

Except for abortion, and your own immediae demise.


I don't dance around the issue for the sake of political correctness.


Morons usually like to play the p/c card...although it is difficult for me to see the connection between the state murdering an innocent person and your interpretation of p/c.

That's a game liberals play.

Actually it is a game that your post seeks to play.

In the past I've suggested that liberals should be allowed to abort their children up to the age of 18,

Here you advocate murder but only for those you disagree with.


expressed a sincere desire that people who think guns are evil find themselves in aposition where they will be forced to defend themselves against armed assailants without them,


Like the cops?


AND have been very vocal about my belief that we should only keep convicts on death row for about 30 minutes before we put a bullet in their heads.

Yet earlier you said this

"Beyond the actual conviction; it's not like people are sentenced and taken outside to be shot. Death row inmates have years, sometimes decades, to find one credible ounce of evidence that just casts doubt on their guilt. They don't have to even prove they were innocent.... they just have to provide a reasonable doubt that the prosecutions evidence proves their guilt. Even the number of legal loopholes that can commute a death sentence are staggering."

Doesn't it hurt when you talk out of both side of your mouth at the same time?

.

(in reply to SadistDave)

quote:

ORIGINAL: SadistDave

quote:

ORIGINAL: DomKen

Do you volunteer your most loved to be the next one? If not why not?

To date, none of my loved ones are such fucked up individuals that they would commit a crime that carries the death sentence OR to be in a position where they might be mistaken as being guilty of crimes they did not commit.

So you are adopted?


I don't forsee it being a problem in the future. Why? Because my family isn't full of punks.


That would be an ignorant unsubstantiated opinion which many on this board would refute.
One of the hallmarks of a punk is their belief that they are sooooo much better,smarter, than others. Your post would seem to validate that at least one member of your family does fit this description

(in reply to SadistDave)

quote:

ORIGINAL: thompsonx

Dead people don't commit crimes. That fact alone is pretty compelling evidence that the death penalty does, in fact, deter crime.

Incarceration would achieve the same effect at a lower cost...another one of those tax and spenders

quote:

ORIGINAL: thompsonx

Dead people don't commit crimes. That fact alone is pretty compelling evidence that the death penalty does, in fact, deter crime.

Incarceration would achieve the same effect at a lower cost...another one of those tax and spenders

quote:

There is no good or compelling evidence that capital punishment has any deterrent effect on crime

quote:

ORIGINAL: kdsub

I think you will find more than a few convicted murderers are paroled after sometimes as little as 10 years... then kill again. It all depends on how the original sentence is worded as to whether life really means life. And not all murderers are sentenced to life of any kind. Of course there are differences in degrees of homicide. I have posted links to these statistics in other threads so if you don't agree search for yourself.

Butch

quote:

ORIGINAL: SadistDave

quote:

ORIGINAL: DomKen

Do you volunteer your most loved to be the next one? If not why not?

To date, none of my loved ones are such fucked up individuals that they would commit a crime that carries the death sentence OR to be in a position where they might be mistaken as being guilty of crimes they did not commit. I don't forsee it being a problem in the future. Why? Because my family isn't full of punks.

Obviously you've considered the question yourself, so maybe you should consider how fucked up your family is instead.