Hate speech or free speech or both?

Hate speech or free speech or both? (Full Version)

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vincentML -> Hate speech or free speech or both? (5/15/2014 7:55:41 PM)
Does this police commissioner have a duty to avoid expressing his racial epithets in public? Should he have to resign as some townspeople wish? Isn't he protected by the First Amendment as an elected official? Or does he have a greater duty to racial equality and equal justice as a law man? WOLFEBORO, N.H. (AP) — A police commissioner in a predominantly white New Hampshire town says he won't apologize for calling President Barack Obama the N-word, and he sat with his arms crossed while angry residents at a meeting called for his resignation on Thursday. Wolfeboro Police Commissioner Robert Copeland, who's 82 and white, has acknowledged in an email to his fellow police commissioners he used the racial slur in describing Obama. Town resident Jane O'Toole, who moved to Wolfeboro four months ago, said she overheard Copeland say the slur at a restaurant in March and wrote to the town manager about it. Copeland, in an email to her, acknowledged using the slur in referring to the president and said he will not apologize. "I believe I did use the 'N' word in reference to the current occupant of the Whitehouse," Copeland said in the email to his fellow police commissioners, part of which he forwarded to O'Toole. "For this, I do not apologize — he meets and exceeds my criteria for such." SOURCE

dcnovice -> RE: Hate speech or free speech or both? (5/15/2014 8:05:23 PM)
FR A few thoughts: (a) I'm keenly curious to know what Copeland's "criteria for such" for such are. (b) The article says of a black officer: When asked to comment outside the meeting, he said, "I'd love to, but I can't." I'd really like to know why he couldn't. Fear of retribution? PD policy? Something else? (c) "Wolfeboro" is eerily similar to "Westboro."

Musicmystery -> RE: Hate speech or free speech or both? (5/15/2014 8:16:32 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: vincentML Does this police commissioner have a duty to avoid expressing his racial epithets in public? Should he have to resign as some townspeople wish? Isn't he protected by the First Amendment as an elected official? Or does he have a greater duty to racial equality and equal justice as a law man? Where do people get this fucked up idea of the First Amendment? There's no protection from the consequences of your actions. If your mouth costs you your job--no violation. Clearly, there's a standard of decorum for an office. If I expressed my sexual views in the classroom, how long do you think I'd still be there today? First Amendment? Not at all. Congress can't pass a law not letting him say things like this. Congress hasn't. Other pissed off people can hand him this ass--and they are. And should. What the fuck is he thinking? Absolutely he has a duty. And if he doesn't want to do it, he can freely express his views on his way out the door to the unemployment office.

TheHeretic -> RE: Hate speech or free speech or both? (5/15/2014 8:45:02 PM)
Nicely put, Muse.

Zonie63 -> RE: Hate speech or free speech or both? (5/15/2014 9:13:05 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: vincentML Does this police commissioner have a duty to avoid expressing his racial epithets in public? Should he have to resign as some townspeople wish? Isn't he protected by the First Amendment as an elected official? Or does he have a greater duty to racial equality and equal justice as a law man? I think what struck me about this was that he was overheard in a restaurant by someone who had moved to the town four months earlier. He's an elected official, so I would imagine he's probably been living in this small town for quite some time. Is this the first time that anyone has heard him use a racial epithet? He's 82, so it's likely not a habit he only just recently started. But now, it's reached national attention - and not very favorable attention at that. I would say that he's certainly protected by the First Amendment in the sense that he can't be prosecuted or jailed just for using a racial epithet. But the townspeople can certainly call for his resignation or vote him out of office. I'm not sure if recall elections are allowed there or whether there are other local provisions for removing someone from office.

njlauren -> RE: Hate speech or free speech or both? (5/15/2014 9:20:13 PM)
He can't be jailed or prosecuted, but he can be fired. Right wing types often cry "the first amendment freedom of speech" when they get attacked for something they have said but that is bullshit. Employers can fire employees for saying the wrong thing, and for a public official to use a racist word like that affects his job and also the town he lives in, it gives the impression the town is full of rednecks and tells blacks and others that the chief of police won't give them the time of day if they need help, and also tells black officers he won't treat them fairly. Freedom of speech has been turned by some, especially on the hard right, into 'freedom from consequences' and it doesn't work like that. You have the right to say what you wish, but others have the right to respond, and also to take action if they feel the speech is inappropriate.

TheHeretic -> RE: Hate speech or free speech or both? (5/15/2014 9:41:34 PM)
You might want to check the recent guidance about those broad-brush attacks that get you off when posting, Lauren. You sound like a "racist" to me. [8\|]

Zonie63 -> RE: Hate speech or free speech or both? (5/15/2014 9:46:36 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: njlauren He can't be jailed or prosecuted, but he can be fired. But who would have the authority to fire him? If he's an elected official, then he can be voted out at the next election, or maybe he can be recalled - if that's allowed in that jurisdiction. But how else would they fire him?

DaNewAgeViking -> RE: Hate speech or free speech or both? (5/15/2014 11:39:39 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: TheHeretic You might want to check the recent guidance about those broad-brush attacks that get you off when posting, Lauren. You sound like a "racist" to me. [8\|] Of course she does. She's expressing real factual opinions which threaten to burst your ideological bubble, so obviously she's wrong. Sheeesh! [sm=binky.gif]

Kirata -> RE: Hate speech or free speech or both? (5/16/2014 1:15:23 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: njlauren Freedom of speech has been turned by some, especially on the hard right, into 'freedom from consequences' and it doesn't work like that. You have the right to say what you wish, but others have the right to respond, and also to take action if they feel the speech is inappropriate. If someone says something you find offensive, you are certainly entitled to stand up and speak your mind about it. But to crank up a self-righteous tantrum and set about destroying the man's life and career, simply because something that he said "offended" you, elevates childish nastiness to a virtue. K.

thishereboi -> RE: Hate speech or free speech or both? (5/16/2014 4:04:28 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: DaNewAgeViking quote: ORIGINAL: TheHeretic You might want to check the recent guidance about those broad-brush attacks that get you off when posting, Lauren. You sound like a "racist" to me. [8\|] Of course she does. She's expressing real factual opinions which threaten to burst your ideological bubble, so obviously she's wrong. Sheeesh! [sm=binky.gif] real factual opinions aye, you mean like the very first line of her post where she said "He can't be jailed or prosecuted, but he can be fired" because according to the article... "Town Manager David Owen said Thursday that while he finds Copeland's comment "reprehensible," he and the board of selectmen have no authority to remove an elected official. He said he expected a large number of residents would call for Copeland's resignation at the police commission meeting, and they did." he can't be fired. So I agree that those are her opinions but I am going to have to call bullshit on the factual part. But I do agree that she shouldn't be called a racist, a bigot yes, but not a racist.

TheHeretic -> RE: Hate speech or free speech or both? (5/16/2014 5:15:28 AM)
Note the quotes on "racist," and then the little notes from Mods 3 and 7 on the Wyoming shooter thread. Also note the smiley

chatterbox24 -> RE: Hate speech or free speech or both? (5/16/2014 6:01:55 AM)
The man is 82 years old. Did he say something offense and stupid in a public place? Absolutely. Again, he is 82 years old and I imagine pretty set in his ways. I don't know how much longer he has to be in office, but I doubt he will be elected, let alone be in mental shape at that age to be elected again, whether he was a Saint or not. The community elected him, so this next round maybe its possible they will elected someone with better conduct. Even if he does refuse to resign, his time is very limited. He wont be a threat for long, he is an old man. Gess.

Greta75 -> RE: Hate speech or free speech or both? (5/16/2014 6:12:41 AM)
A white American older southern gentlemen about 70 yr old once told me that, at one point of American history. It was the blacks who wanted to be called the "N" word. And that's how it started. It was only later that they changed their minds and prefer to be referred as African Americans. I don't know any thing about American history but any black origin person know if this was true?

Ladytisha -> RE: Hate speech or free speech or both? (5/16/2014 6:21:19 AM)
Greta, that isn't true and African American refers to decent. Some African hate American born blacks which is crazy. Seems a lot of folks want to use free speech when a racist comment is made. If you had big enough nuts to make the racist comment then you should have bigger nuts to face whatever actions result from the comment. If you are in a leadership position and it means your job then so be it.

tj444 -> RE: Hate speech or free speech or both? (5/16/2014 6:25:42 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: chatterbox24 I don't know how much longer he has to be in office, but I doubt he will be elected, let alone be in mental shape at that age to be elected again, whether he was a Saint or not. The community elected him, so this next round maybe its possible they will elected someone with better conduct. Even if he does refuse to resign, his time is very limited. He wont be a threat for long, he is an old man. Gess. [sm=rofl.gif] There have been a couple of dudes that I thought would never win re-election and been gobsmacked that the voters have done just that.. despite those dudes being corrupt, liars and even on trial.. I have learned never to overestimate the intelligence of voters.. [&:]

BecomingV -> RE: Hate speech or free speech or both? (5/16/2014 6:43:58 AM)
I don't even like it when they call President Obama, "Obama." When did newscasters drop the propriety? I think it's racist. The "n" word... yawn. Hip hop and the AA community have played with it ad nauseum. I think it belongs in the "sticks and stones" pile. Do I want people to hate? No. But, I don't agree with the suppression of language as a means of creating respect. Let the racists sing from the rooftops so that we can see who they really are. If firing people for hate language is going to be our standard, then by all means, fire everyone for using the word "bitch" when not referring to a canine. Talk about accepting hate words!

crazyml -> RE: Hate speech or free speech or both? (5/16/2014 6:48:13 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: BecomingV I don't even like it when they call President Obama, "Obama." When did newscasters drop the propriety? I think it's racist. About the time of... Washington.

chatterbox24 -> RE: Hate speech or free speech or both? (5/16/2014 7:26:41 AM)
Lets see I think I've heard people refer to the initials JFK, not PJFK......Those racist bastards.[sm=rofl.gif] That's got to be one of the silliest arguments I have ever heard. Are you serious? Or is that a joke?

vincentML -> RE: Hate speech or free speech or both? (5/16/2014 7:39:33 AM)
quote: I don't even like it when they call President Obama, "Obama." When did newscasters drop the propriety? I think it's racist. Tis a common American idiom to refer to politicians by their last names.

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