RE: Oops. Voter ID advocate Asa Hutchinson forgets Voter ID at polls

RE: Oops. Voter ID advocate Asa Hutchinson forgets Voter ID at polls (Full Version)

All Forums >> [Community Discussions] >> Dungeon of Political and Religious Discussion

Message

joether -> RE: Oops. Voter ID advocate Asa Hutchinson forgets Voter ID at polls (6/2/2014 3:45:24 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: quizzicalkitten But you dont get a different college ID for being a citizen or non citizen... you just show up and say your college ID number and they snap a photo.... Seriously.... Im trying to understand are you just severely lacking in mental facilities... or do you put on an act to be intentionally inflammatory. Your right that colleges and universities across the nation do not typically show a difference between 'US Citizen' and not. However, if that student were to go to the polls, they would have needed to obtain the ability to vote in that location before hand. Otherwise, it would be an absentee ballot in their home location (i.e. they cant vote twice). So when they do show up at the polling location, they could present their university/college Photo ID and vote. How you ask? College IDs at mid and large size schools tend to scrutinize their identification with paid security persons and/or devices. In the Commonwealth of Massachusetts, those security guards are actually MASS State Police officers (unlike security guards, these guys DO carry guns). The College ID's can be used at area merchants/vendors for deals the schools hold with area businesses on discounts. So keeping the college ID credible with those area merchants becomes important to the school for a number of different reasons. Some schools use it as a selling point to entice potential students to attend classes verse another school. Faking a college ID and being caught usually carries some stiff penalties, including expulsion without the ability to transfer credits. Most students in their second year already stand to lose a lot being expulsed from school, so where is the profit in lying? Before you jump down DK's throat, try to consider this information....

thishereboi -> RE: Oops. Voter ID advocate Asa Hutchinson forgets Voter ID at polls (6/2/2014 4:08:22 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: joether I cant answer a question, if I don't know what the question is to begin with. That's how logic works.... Here ya go. the original question and the claim that initiated it.... quote: ORIGINAL: thishereboi quote: ORIGINAL: DomKen quote: quote: ORIGINAL: DesideriScuri quote: ORIGINAL: DomKen So you don't have a problem with having to empty your pockets and go through a metal detector but you think showing your id is being searched [8\|] One is reasonable. There have been shootings at courthouses. The other isn't. There have been almost no cases of people voting as someone else. In this country we pass laws to fix actual problems. Both are reasonable, Ken. I have never been involved in a shooting at a courthouse. Why is it reasonable that I am searched? Have there been any laws made to protect a right? Has there ever been any cases of voter fraud that an ID would have prevented? To paraphrase government expansionists, "if we can protect just one vote..." You are grossly wrong. inconveniencing people to protect lives is one thing because lives cannot be replaced. There is simply no evidence that people are voting under false ID's so there is no problem to solve. The law is a blatantly partisan ploy to keep Democratic demographics away from the polls. well maybe the question should be why is it so hard to democrats to get id's. It can't be because they are poor since you have to have id to get medicaid. So what is the problem? Even your aunt managed to get a copy and while you told us it was difficult, I find it hard to believe it would have been an easier for her if she was a republican. So why is this such a hard thing for you guys.

quizzicalkitten -> RE: Oops. Voter ID advocate Asa Hutchinson forgets Voter ID at polls (6/2/2014 4:43:51 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: joether quote: ORIGINAL: quizzicalkitten But you dont get a different college ID for being a citizen or non citizen... you just show up and say your college ID number and they snap a photo.... Seriously.... Im trying to understand are you just severely lacking in mental facilities... or do you put on an act to be intentionally inflammatory. Your right that colleges and universities across the nation do not typically show a difference between 'US Citizen' and not. However, if that student were to go to the polls, they would have needed to obtain the ability to vote in that location before hand. Otherwise, it would be an absentee ballot in their home location (i.e. they cant vote twice). So when they do show up at the polling location, they could present their university/college Photo ID and vote. How you ask? College IDs at mid and large size schools tend to scrutinize their identification with paid security persons and/or devices. In the Commonwealth of Massachusetts, those security guards are actually MASS State Police officers (unlike security guards, these guys DO carry guns). The College ID's can be used at area merchants/vendors for deals the schools hold with area businesses on discounts. So keeping the college ID credible with those area merchants becomes important to the school for a number of different reasons. Some schools use it as a selling point to entice potential students to attend classes verse another school. Faking a college ID and being caught usually carries some stiff penalties, including expulsion without the ability to transfer credits. Most students in their second year already stand to lose a lot being expulsed from school, so where is the profit in lying? Before you jump down DK's throat, try to consider this information.... In your area... Colleges in MY area, you show up say your college ID number and some second year tog student takes your photo and prints your id on the spot... Heres the thing, I can register to vote... being a non citizen... Then show up with my college ID saying I am who I say I am.... and vote.... See how that works there? Regardless debating with you is pointless... My cat is better at listening then you are, and your stuck on your.... but my rights my rights my rights...Not even caring, that because we are protecting the rights of people like you... MY rights were violated... IF you needed an ID to do anything in the voting process... MY VOTE IN THIS YEARS PRIMARY WOULDN'T HAVE BEEN TERMED INVALID.... I WAS RESTRICTED FROM VOTING... because some organization signed me up for a party I dont belong to ILLEGALLY...and thats okay.... because voter fraud... never happens... Ever....[8\|]

DesideriScuri -> RE: Oops. Voter ID advocate Asa Hutchinson forgets Voter ID at polls (6/2/2014 5:02:53 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: DomKen IOW, Debating this with people who don't know what the fuck they are talking about and can't be bothered getting the actual definitions right is annoying as hell. That's exactly what I was implying there, Ken.

DesideriScuri -> RE: Oops. Voter ID advocate Asa Hutchinson forgets Voter ID at polls (6/2/2014 5:06:41 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: joether Voter Fraud does not happen ANYWHERE remotely to the levels you have shown in your 'sources', as I showed with the FACTS! Interestingly enough, Joether, you have just accepted that voter fraud does happen, just not to a great extent. Therein lies the proof of my assertion. Voter fraud doesn't happen, until it does.

DesideriScuri -> RE: Oops. Voter ID advocate Asa Hutchinson forgets Voter ID at polls (6/2/2014 5:09:21 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: joether I cant answer a question, if I don't know what the question is to begin with. That's how logic works.... That's where reading and following a thread come into play, Joether.

joether -> RE: Oops. Voter ID advocate Asa Hutchinson forgets Voter ID at polls (6/2/2014 7:23:13 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: thishereboi quote: ORIGINAL: joether I cant answer a question, if I don't know what the question is to begin with. That's how logic works.... Here ya go. the original question and the claim that initiated it.... quote: ORIGINAL: thishereboi quote: ORIGINAL: DomKen quote: quote: ORIGINAL: DesideriScuri quote: ORIGINAL: DomKen So you don't have a problem with having to empty your pockets and go through a metal detector but you think showing your id is being searched [8\|] One is reasonable. There have been shootings at courthouses. The other isn't. There have been almost no cases of people voting as someone else. In this country we pass laws to fix actual problems. Both are reasonable, Ken. I have never been involved in a shooting at a courthouse. Why is it reasonable that I am searched? Have there been any laws made to protect a right? Has there ever been any cases of voter fraud that an ID would have prevented? To paraphrase government expansionists, "if we can protect just one vote..." You are grossly wrong. inconveniencing people to protect lives is one thing because lives cannot be replaced. There is simply no evidence that people are voting under false ID's so there is no problem to solve. The law is a blatantly partisan ploy to keep Democratic demographics away from the polls. well maybe the question should be why is it so hard to democrats to get id's. It can't be because they are poor since you have to have id to get medicaid. So what is the problem? Even your aunt managed to get a copy and while you told us it was difficult, I find it hard to believe it would have been an easier for her if she was a republican. So why is this such a hard thing for you guys. I thought this was already answered previously. And that what happens at a courtroom, while a curious discussion, were entirely off the topic. I find when people don't have an argument on the central topic, they try to pull the topic somewhere else. And I'm keeping this topic strictly on Voter Suppression through Voter ID Laws that are based on a fantasy rather than reality.

joether -> RE: Oops. Voter ID advocate Asa Hutchinson forgets Voter ID at polls (6/2/2014 7:33:35 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: DesideriScuri quote: ORIGINAL: joether I cant answer a question, if I don't know what the question is to begin with. That's how logic works.... That's where reading and following a thread come into play, Joether. This coming from a guy who uses sources he does not bother to read, nor check for accuracy before inserting them into an argument of the current topic? Yeah, you really don't have 'much of a leg to stand on' this argument DS.....

DesideriScuri -> RE: Oops. Voter ID advocate Asa Hutchinson forgets Voter ID at polls (6/2/2014 7:44:12 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: joether quote: ORIGINAL: DesideriScuri quote: ORIGINAL: joether I cant answer a question, if I don't know what the question is to begin with. That's how logic works.... That's where reading and following a thread come into play, Joether. This coming from a guy who uses sources he does not bother to read, nor check for accuracy before inserting them into an argument of the current topic? Yeah, you really don't have 'much of a leg to stand on' this argument DS..... You claimed I had no shred of evidence. I provided shreds. You showed those shreds to be overstated. What you didn't show, however, is that there was no evidence at all. Your claim, Joether, was wrong.

Musicmystery -> RE: Oops. Voter ID advocate Asa Hutchinson forgets Voter ID at polls (6/2/2014 7:54:18 AM)
Whoa. Overstated "evidence" is, in fact, hence disproved, and if the evidence doesn't establish the claim, then it's not evidence. Because that's the job of evidence. Discredited evidence doesn't leave you with "but I have evidence." You don't. You attempted to provide evidence. You were unsuccessful, by your own acknowledgement that it was overstated. Your evidence was "shredded," yes. A child's semantic game, if that's where you're hanging your hat now.

joether -> RE: Oops. Voter ID advocate Asa Hutchinson forgets Voter ID at polls (6/2/2014 8:00:32 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: DesideriScuri quote: ORIGINAL: joether Voter Fraud does not happen ANYWHERE remotely to the levels you have shown in your 'sources', as I showed with the FACTS! Interestingly enough, Joether, you have just accepted that voter fraud does happen, just not to a great extent. Therein lies the proof of my assertion. Voter fraud doesn't happen, until it does. Lets get this straight..... You say Voter Fraud takes place at an alarming right. Your 'argument' was a series of places on the web stating that voter fraud had taken place in the tens of thousands. Therefore, Voter IDs are justified. I have stated that Voter Fraud has taken place, yet on a vastly small scale as to be irrelevant to the final outcome of those races. I bring forth EVIDENCE that supports my position. Evidence from many sources not just right-wing, heavily media bias, conservative sites. Sites were 'journalism' is hated along with the idea of the Liberalis Media (i.e. Latin for 'Free Press'...or....'Liberal Media'). In the opening argument I pointed out one such site that stated since year 2000, that there were 2,068 REPORTED cases of Voter Fraud. Of those, only a mere 10 were ACTUAL cases. All of them in different states. You and all those in favor of Voter IDs, would have me believe that less then a dozen fraudulent votes would have effected the House, Senate, and Presidential races? The last Presidential race was decided by a span of a few....MILLION...votes. That aside, you have not brought forth an argument to counter the OTHER argument I made. That I do not have to show my Photo ID because I'm protected under the 4th amendment against unreasonable search and seizer of my person, place, property, etc,.....UNLESSS....there was probable cause of wrong doing. Of course, when one enters a polling place, they are not immediately accused of wrong doing, are they? No, that would be insane. One can state who they are and where they live. Its up to (as I stated before) other individual(s) to come forth and make an accusation of falsehood. In the united States, DS, a person is considered....INNOCENT....until proven....GUILTY. In your fantasy land, people are guilty and must prove their innocence; its a good thing reality is what it is in this case. I consider being asked/told to prove my innocence a violation of the 4th amendment. And if I was actually doing something wrong, DS? I have the protection of the 5th amendment (that would be the amendment that comes after the 4th if your having trouble here....). The third argument is WHO is bring such laws forth, and WHY they are doing it. It has nothing to do with a good and just system of government, but on the other hand, to place limits, constraints, and intimidation on US Citizens. Ironically, those pushing these laws into existence are the very same that bitch about 'Limited Government' on all the....OTHER....threads we have seen on this forum and nation. My side of the argument has actual and well defined if not easily verifiable evidence; yours is a total fantasy! Voter ID laws will be challenged in courts across the land with time. It'll be a re-run of the anti-gay marriage laws that are being overturned right now. How much money has been spent creating, establishing, maintaining and ultimately defending a losing argument (just like anti gay marriage laws), DS? Because the same folks that BITCH about wasteful government spending, are WASTING GOVERMENT SPENDING on stupid laws that will be eventually thrown out. Or is it that 'fiscal conservatives' can spend high on the hog, but if anyone else does its just WRONG? Yeah, your in favor of 'Limited Government' like your tagline states. And I'm the Emporer of Mankind (before the Horus Heresy)!

joether -> RE: Oops. Voter ID advocate Asa Hutchinson forgets Voter ID at polls (6/2/2014 8:08:21 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: DesideriScuri quote: ORIGINAL: joether quote: ORIGINAL: DesideriScuri quote: ORIGINAL: joether I cant answer a question, if I don't know what the question is to begin with. That's how logic works.... That's where reading and following a thread come into play, Joether. This coming from a guy who uses sources he does not bother to read, nor check for accuracy before inserting them into an argument of the current topic? Yeah, you really don't have 'much of a leg to stand on' this argument DS..... You claimed I had no shred of evidence. I provided shreds. You showed those shreds to be overstated. What you didn't show, however, is that there was no evidence at all. Your claim, Joether, was wrong. Your evidence was SHIT. Seriously, DS. Go read each of your links. Then look read what I stated. Some of those have links to the real information. In one of the sources you claimed, stated the factual information right in the story, but further down the page. You publish nearly a dozen links of bullshit. It took me considerably more time writing the counter argument then it did finding the actual information. On two occasions, I have stated the search string I used to find such information out. It was '(site of source)' plus 'voter fraud' and 'facts' and/or 'fact check'. If my claims to your 'facts' are wrong, DS. By all means, present the ACTUAL, VERIFIABLE, UNBIASED, EVIDENCE. Your the one stating voter fraud is some massive conspiracy; yet have nothing to support that claim. I state voter fraud happens on such a tiny scale that existing laws/penalties keep it in check, while the outcome of such races have been decided on hundreds of thousands if not millions of votes.

DesideriScuri -> RE: Oops. Voter ID advocate Asa Hutchinson forgets Voter ID at polls (6/2/2014 9:31:35 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Musicmystery Whoa. Overstated "evidence" is, in fact, hence disproved, and if the evidence doesn't establish the claim, then it's not evidence. Because that's the job of evidence. Discredited evidence doesn't leave you with "but I have evidence." You don't. You attempted to provide evidence. You were unsuccessful, by your own acknowledgement that it was overstated. Your evidence was "shredded," yes. A child's semantic game, if that's where you're hanging your hat now. Actually, all that was shown was that there was fraud, but not to the extent the articles claimed. There was still fraud.

DesideriScuri -> RE: Oops. Voter ID advocate Asa Hutchinson forgets Voter ID at polls (6/2/2014 9:33:08 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: joether quote: ORIGINAL: DesideriScuri quote: ORIGINAL: joether Voter Fraud does not happen ANYWHERE remotely to the levels you have shown in your 'sources', as I showed with the FACTS! Interestingly enough, Joether, you have just accepted that voter fraud does happen, just not to a great extent. Therein lies the proof of my assertion. Voter fraud doesn't happen, until it does. Lets get this straight..... You say Voter Fraud takes place at an alarming right. And, that's where you're way off. I have never stated it takes place at an alarming rate. I stated that it does, in fact, take place. Thus, for me to not have a shred of evidence, means there can't be any proof of any fraud. Yet, there is, because there is fraud.

DesideriScuri -> RE: Oops. Voter ID advocate Asa Hutchinson forgets Voter ID at polls (6/2/2014 9:35:57 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: joether If my claims to your 'facts' are wrong, DS. By all means, present the ACTUAL, VERIFIABLE, UNBIASED, EVIDENCE. Your the one stating voter fraud is some massive conspiracy; yet have nothing to support that claim. I state voter fraud happens on such a tiny scale that existing laws/penalties keep it in check, while the outcome of such races have been decided on hundreds of thousands if not millions of votes. Where have I ever stated that voter fraud is a massive conspiracy? Where have I ever stated that voter fraud takes place on a massive scale? Feel free to show that to me. Don't worry about those exact phrases, either. You won't be able to find me stating any such thing.

joether -> RE: Oops. Voter ID advocate Asa Hutchinson forgets Voter ID at polls (6/2/2014 10:19:32 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: quizzicalkitten In your area... Colleges in MY area, you show up say your college ID number and some second year tog student takes your photo and prints your id on the spot... Well, your college will have to live with the consequences of doing business like that. Many colleges in my area that are mid-sized to large, take the college ID rather seriously. The ID is used not just as space in the wallet, but access to buildings, food programs, registering for classes, and a assortment of other uses. Many of the businesses in the area give discounts to students using their student ID, depending on which school they attend. The student ID is one way local law enforcement use to identify students as well. quote: ORIGINAL: quizzicalkitten Heres the thing, I can register to vote... being a non citizen... Then show up with my college ID saying I am who I say I am.... and vote.... If you can register to vote, but is not a US Citizen, what will a photo ID do in preventing you from voting? In order to REGISTER to VOTE in the USA, one has to prove two things. Residence and birth certificate (showing US location and/or US Citizens), If you obtained the right to vote through the registeration process but are not a US Citizen, two things are important here: 1 ) You broke the law, 2 ) The clerk(s) that handled your case should be fired. Showing a photo ID at a polling location on election day (per the topic if this thread) takes place...LONG...after the registration process in most states. quote: ORIGINAL: quizzicalkitten Regardless debating with you is pointless... My cat is better at listening then you are, and your stuck on your.... but my rights my rights my rights...Not even caring, that because we are protecting the rights of people like you... The reason this 'discussion' is pointless is due to the following: A ) You lack a real argument B ) Your argument lacks any real support C ) My position is based on the US Constitution D ) I can support my argument(s) E ) I HAVE supported my arguments already OMG, a US Citizen talking about rights in the United States of America. If you don't like it, then stop posting on the thread. Your cat can not post on this forum, so he/she is already more intelligent then you.... How low on the rung of life are you, that an animal is both more intelligent then you and can lick its own ass? quote: ORIGINAL: quizzicalkitten MY rights were violated... IF you needed an ID to do anything in the voting process... MY VOTE IN THIS YEARS PRIMARY WOULDN'T HAVE BEEN TERMED INVALID.... An how is your rights more important to my own? I don't need an ID to vote. I never have had a need to have an ID to vote. I state who I am and where I live...then....vote. If someone claimed to be myself, the nice folks at the poll would still allow me to vote, and would make a notation of one irregular vote. If later that box needs to be examined, it can be. There are rules in my state how the whole process works at that point. Each of the states, well before Voter ID Laws become an interest of Republicans, such laws were on the books. Including the Federal Government. quote: ORIGINAL: quizzicalkitten I WAS RESTRICTED FROM VOTING... because some organization signed me up for a party I dont belong to ILLEGALLY...and thats okay.... because voter fraud... never happens... Ever....[8\|] An organization, signing you up, without your consent has....NOTHING....to do with the topic of this thread. In primaries, one can be restricted based on their party's affiliation. I know some states allow independents and 'undesignated' to vote in any party's primary. But when they do, they are assigned to that party. It requires a form to be signed stating the individual does not wish to join that party. That was the case in Massachusetts until it got changed.

joether -> RE: Oops. Voter ID advocate Asa Hutchinson forgets Voter ID at polls (6/2/2014 10:35:13 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: DesideriScuri quote: ORIGINAL: joether If my claims to your 'facts' are wrong, DS. By all means, present the ACTUAL, VERIFIABLE, UNBIASED, EVIDENCE. Your the one stating voter fraud is some massive conspiracy; yet have nothing to support that claim. I state voter fraud happens on such a tiny scale that existing laws/penalties keep it in check, while the outcome of such races have been decided on hundreds of thousands if not millions of votes. Where have I ever stated that voter fraud is a massive conspiracy? Where have I ever stated that voter fraud takes place on a massive scale? Feel free to show that to me. Don't worry about those exact phrases, either. You won't be able to find me stating any such thing. Go read those links you initially used in your argument. This is from your post # 146 "ORIGINAL: DesideriScuri http://pjmedia.com/jchristianadams/2012/05/16/53000-dead-voters-found-in-florida/" 53,000 dead voters found in Florida "ORIGINAL: DesideriScuri http://www.poughkeepsiejournal.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20061029/NEWS01/610290381/1006/NEWS01 " 77,000 dead residents "ORIGINAL: DesideriScuri http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2014/apr/11/editorial-a-lesson-for-the-president/ " 35,750 persons You know this post, right? Has your picture on it. Its the one that I reply to that stated you REALLY didn't read the articles your quotes, nor, checked the information as correct and studied. Those numbers are 'normal' right-wing conspiracy of mass voter fraud taking place in the country. Maybe alittle low for the likes of FOX News and Rush Limbaugh... These three links appeared in your post, as part of your argument. Therefore, your supporting this massive conspiracy that's based on NO FACTUAL EVIDENCE (which I pointed out in my follow-up post to yours).

thishereboi -> RE: Oops. Voter ID advocate Asa Hutchinson forgets Voter ID at polls (6/2/2014 10:41:03 AM)
You thought wrong.

joether -> RE: Oops. Voter ID advocate Asa Hutchinson forgets Voter ID at polls (6/2/2014 10:46:00 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: thishereboi You thought wrong. Yeah I looked at the post and said "Why am I listing the same damn site three times"? Clerical error there. Has since been fixed with the proper information. My apologizes.

DesideriScuri -> RE: Oops. Voter ID advocate Asa Hutchinson forgets Voter ID at polls (6/2/2014 11:38:54 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: joether quote: ORIGINAL: DesideriScuri quote: ORIGINAL: joether If my claims to your 'facts' are wrong, DS. By all means, present the ACTUAL, VERIFIABLE, UNBIASED, EVIDENCE. Your the one stating voter fraud is some massive conspiracy; yet have nothing to support that claim. I state voter fraud happens on such a tiny scale that existing laws/penalties keep it in check, while the outcome of such races have been decided on hundreds of thousands if not millions of votes. Where have I ever stated that voter fraud is a massive conspiracy? Where have I ever stated that voter fraud takes place on a massive scale? Feel free to show that to me. Don't worry about those exact phrases, either. You won't be able to find me stating any such thing. Go read those links you initially used in your argument. This is from your post # 146 "ORIGINAL: DesideriScuri http://pjmedia.com/jchristianadams/2012/05/16/53000-dead-voters-found-in-florida/" 53,000 dead voters found in Florida "ORIGINAL: DesideriScuri http://www.poughkeepsiejournal.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20061029/NEWS01/610290381/1006/NEWS01 " 77,000 dead residents "ORIGINAL: DesideriScuri http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2014/apr/11/editorial-a-lesson-for-the-president/ " 35,750 persons You know this post, right? Has your picture on it. Its the one that I reply to that stated you REALLY didn't read the articles your quotes, nor, checked the information as correct and studied. Those numbers are 'normal' right-wing conspiracy of mass voter fraud taking place in the country. Maybe alittle low for the likes of FOX News and Rush Limbaugh... These three links appeared in your post, as part of your argument. Therefore, your supporting this massive conspiracy that's based on NO FACTUAL EVIDENCE (which I pointed out in my follow-up post to yours). None of those claim a massive conspiracy. 77k dead people still with valid registrations? That happens when States don't keep their rolls up to date with the latest technology, which I do believe you've mentioned (or someone else has in this thread). In case you forgot what the fuck you're attempting to argue, here it is, Post#135: quote: ORIGINAL: joether quote: ORIGINAL: DesideriScuri Voter registration fraud isn't the same thing as voter fraud. Fraudulent registrations aren't fraudulent votes. Fraudulent votes are things like someone voting who wasn't alive at the time of the election, or someone voting as someone else, or someone voting several times. But, those never happen. Except when they do. You keep saying this wild belief, yet have not one shred of decent evidence to support it. I gave 3 examples of voter fraud. I mocked all those who claim voter fraud doesn't happen. I claimed that those types of voter fraud happen. You challenged me to prove my "wild belief" (that voter fraud happens). You don't care for my sources because they overstate the fraud. That's fine. That's still an implicit admission that there is fraud.

Page: << < prev 8 9 [10] 11 12 next > >>

Collarchat.com © 2025

Terms of Service

6.298828E-02