A rapist moving in next door (Full Version)

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TheHeretic -> A rapist moving in next door (5/23/2014 7:48:48 PM)

So here is the scenario. You are going along about your life, and a judge hundreds of miles away issues an order that a serial rapist is going to move in next door.


�Most Prolific and Violent Rapist� to Be Released to L.A. County The story at the link has a fairly good history on the guy. He's not nice.


I'm curious what people would do if this was the house or apartment next door to them.

Move? Turn your house into a fortress? Adopt several big dogs? Just casually trust the wisdom of the doctors who say he's all better now? Bring a gun into the home? Take him a casserole, and welcome him to the neighborhood?

There is another thing the article doesn't mention. Policing for the area is two deputies on day shift. Response time to the area for a code 3 call runs 15-20 minutes (if they have someone to send). Calling 911 will get you somebody to take a report when it is over.




Darkfeather -> RE: A rapist moving in next door (5/23/2014 9:41:17 PM)

So? What would you suggest the wonderful correctional system of Los Angeles do with the guy. Ship him off to another county, another state? He did his time, as all criminals have to do. At some point this means they will have to be released. That means they have to live somewhere. So then it becomes a not my neighborhood fight eh? Then guess what, vote for a politician that believes in the death penalty. Because if he had been executed for his crimes back in 1972, he wouldn't be around now to shock and terrorize poor defenseless women (for some reason, considering the guy is 63 and been in a mental institution since the 70s). Otherwise, suck it up and deal with the guy. He is being released, he is going to have a GPS tracker on him. I seriously doubt 2 minutes after they stick him in his run down shack, he will crawl out supine and begin stalking prey again. They released him for a reason, he's just an old felon who will probably spend the rest of his life being vilified and hated. But dangerous, give me a break



TheHeretic -> RE: A rapist moving in next door (5/23/2014 11:28:34 PM)

It doesn't seem that you read the story at all. He is not being released after doing his time.

I'll take your answer as being that you would trust the wisdom of the system, and still sleep with your windows open on warm summer nights.




Darkfeather -> RE: A rapist moving in next door (5/24/2014 12:33:52 AM)

My answer has nothing to do with the system. And yes I read the stupid story, but you didn't answer my questions. What, oh what would you, or can you do? The choices are pretty damn simple. Either kill him, or live with him. You can't pass him off onto someone else, because 1) he isn't some property or garbage you can just keep tossing around until it sticks somewhere, and 2) hes gone through the system. For better or worse, someone said he has served his time and gets out. You don't like that, run for office and change it. Otherwise, deal with the two choices you have at hand



MistressDarkArt -> RE: A rapist moving in next door (5/24/2014 12:51:36 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Darkfeather

<snip> He did his time, as all criminals have to do. At some point this means they will have to be released. <snip>



Arguing for or against the death penalty is beyond my endurance tonight, but I will say that creep should never have been released again...anywhere.

I live in an otherwise paradisiacal little fishing village. Not only do we have clean air and superb weather, for some reason, it puts out the welcome mat for criminals, child molesters, rapists, and mentally ill homeless. They come in droves every time an out-of-state institutions dumps them with a free bus ticket to anywhere they want to go.

There was a time that 2 child molesters BOTH lived within a 100 feet of me. One was living on the property I bought and had to be evicted to close escrow. Since he had 'rights', the realtors ponied up a portion of their commissions to bribe him to go. He moved a block away, but his shop was still 2 houses from mine so I couldn't get away from him. At the time I moved in it was quite an issue because my partner's 5 year old daughter stayed with us each weekend. Now he lost his house and lives in the shop, almost right next door.

That was to my left. To my immediate right was ANOTHER child molester...we shared a fence. By the time he moved in, I had no young children living on my property, but plenty of the neighbors who did were up in arms.

As long as these folks are here...time done or not...mentally ill or not...there is unrest in the neighborhood. If the smegma in that article took up residence on my block, it would be the the last straw for me. Let's just say...I wouldn't be the one moving, and anywhere he was headed would have to be by ambulance.



Darkfeather -> RE: A rapist moving in next door (5/24/2014 1:40:05 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: MistressDarkArt

quote:

ORIGINAL: Darkfeather

<snip> He did his time, as all criminals have to do. At some point this means they will have to be released. <snip>



Arguing for or against the death penalty is beyond my endurance tonight, but I will say that creep should never have been released again...anywhere.

I live in an otherwise paradisiacal little fishing village. Not only do we have clean air and superb weather, for some reason, it puts out the welcome mat for criminals, child molesters, rapists, and mentally ill homeless. They come in droves every time an out-of-state institutions dumps them with a free bus ticket to anywhere they want to go.

There was a time that 2 child molesters BOTH lived within a 100 feet of me. One was living on the property I bought and had to be evicted to close escrow. Since he had 'rights', the realtors ponied up a portion of their commissions to bribe him to go. He moved a block away, but his shop was still 2 houses from mine so I couldn't get away from him. At the time I moved in it was quite an issue because my partner's 5 year old daughter stayed with us each weekend. Now he lost his house and lives in the shop, almost right next door.

That was to my left. To my immediate right was ANOTHER child molester...we shared a fence. By the time he moved in, I had no young children living on my property, but plenty of the neighbors who did were up in arms.

As long as these folks are here...time done or not...mentally ill or not...there is unrest in the neighborhood. If the smegma in that article took up residence on my block, it would be the the last straw for me. Let's just say...I wouldn't be the one moving, and anywhere he was headed would have to be by ambulance.


There is no argument for or against the death penalty. If you don't kill a criminal for their crimes, they will eventually get out. Welcome to the human race. Once they get out, those who are against said death penalty, have to deal with them. Why, because since they are still alive, they have to live. Eat, work, shit, pay taxes. Do all the things that being a living human being require. If you are against the death penalty, then you are for taking care of said criminals. Both in prison, and yep when they get out and move next door to ya. Your only other choice, is buy a gun, knock on his door, and end the argument then and there. But then you get to enter the very same system that put mister criminal in place. The biggest hypocritical farce of this entire country, is that the biggest voices against killing criminal and rehabilitation, are also the loudest ones with torches and pitchforks when the very same get out. So, why put someone in prison in the first place, give them parole, or assign them a time to serve. Why? When even though they get out, they are still held accountable for the crimes they committed. Once a rapist, always a rapist? Once a murderer, always a murderer? If so, then why let any criminal out... Life sentence for arson, shoplifting, tax evasion. If people can't live next to a rapist who has lawfully served his time in prison, then they should have advocated his death.



chatterbox24 -> RE: A rapist moving in next door (5/24/2014 3:16:17 AM)

I wouldn't like it I know that. It would make me a bit on edge or a lot. I would not picket nor bother him. I would start by treating him as a human being and see how that worked. Agitating the hell out of him , treating him less, even with treatment is not a solution but a very good wAy to make him fall back into anger and doing it again. Nothing is guaranteed.



thishereboi -> RE: A rapist moving in next door (5/24/2014 5:00:58 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Darkfeather

So? What would you suggest the wonderful correctional system of Los Angeles do with the guy. Ship him off to another county, another state? He did his time, as all criminals have to do. At some point this means they will have to be released. That means they have to live somewhere. So then it becomes a not my neighborhood fight eh? Then guess what, vote for a politician that believes in the death penalty. Because if he had been executed for his crimes back in 1972, he wouldn't be around now to shock and terrorize poor defenseless women (for some reason, considering the guy is 63 and been in a mental institution since the 70s). Otherwise, suck it up and deal with the guy. He is being released, he is going to have a GPS tracker on him. I seriously doubt 2 minutes after they stick him in his run down shack, he will crawl out supine and begin stalking prey again. They released him for a reason, he's just an old felon who will probably spend the rest of his life being vilified and hated. But dangerous, give me a break


You might want to reread the article. He hasn't been in a mental institution since the 70's. He was arrested in 1972 and got out in 1979 at which point he started raping again. In 1982 he got another 16 years and was released in 1990. But apparently he still couldn't keep it in his pants and raped someone else and was thrown back in. Now I would think it is pretty clear at this point that locking him up in the past didn't change him, why would this stint be any different. But if you honestly think he is so safe now, why don't you contact someone and offer your house for him to live in. I am sure the people in the community where he is headed now won't have a problem with that.



TheHeretic -> RE: A rapist moving in next door (5/24/2014 7:26:36 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Darkfeather

My answer has nothing to do with the system. And yes I read the stupid story, but you didn't answer my questions. What, oh what would you, or can you do? The choices are pretty damn simple. Either kill him, or live with him. You can't pass him off onto someone else, because 1) he isn't some property or garbage you can just keep tossing around until it sticks somewhere, and 2) hes gone through the system. For better or worse, someone said he has served his time and gets out. You don't like that, run for office and change it. Otherwise, deal with the two choices you have at hand


To start with, Darkfeather, I'd invite you to bring that attitude problem of yours down to the dungeon section, but that's been done on another thread, and you lacked the stones to show up. Your character is clear to us.

My suggestion has been that he be housed in a trailer on the grounds of a state facility. That was done previously in California, with a serial killer who had to be released. It worked out.

If he was coming in next door, rather than across the valley from me, I'd be calling Linda Blair, and offering to give a good home to a couple of the pitbulls in her rescue facility. The training dummy would have a mustache.




dcnovice -> RE: A rapist moving in next door (5/24/2014 8:27:34 AM)

FR

To my disappointment, the news story didn't seem to say why he was being released.

Based on my very limited understanding of the situation, my head and my heart are at odds.

My head says we can't confine someone, however loathsome, without legal grounds for doing so.

My heart says lock him up and throw away the key. Failing that, I think his docs should scour the DSM and find some diagnosis code that warrants keeping him in-patient.



TheHeretic -> RE: A rapist moving in next door (5/24/2014 8:29:36 AM)

Just to help you out here, Darkfeather, here is a link to an earlier discussion of the subject, when this proposed location was announced about 6 weeks ago.

http://www.collarchat.com/m_4679953/tm.htm

Of course, it's not in the kiddie section of the pool. The feathers on your water-wings might get singed. [8|]



TheHeretic -> RE: A rapist moving in next door (5/24/2014 9:00:33 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: dcnovice

To my disappointment, the news story didn't seem to say why he was being released.




The short answer, DC, is because Santa Clara County Judge Gilbert Brown says so. The doctors at the state hospital say he has completed the treatment program.

Hubbart has been fighting for release for years, just as he fought the sexually violent predator designation before that. Laws in California have been changed with this guy as the poster boy, but they don't apply retroactively on the sentencing.

I can provide a link to a timeline, but the short version is that he started raping women in their own homes when he was still a teenager. He went to prison the first time at 21, and raped a woman the same day he was paroled from that sentence. He was out a few years, adding another 15-ish known victims (he admits to a total of about 40, but the estimate is over 100) before being locked up again. He was released again after that, under close supervision, said the wrong thing to a therapist, and was reincarcerated in a mental health facility.

The concern has to be that what he has learned in the last 18 years isn't how to not get his thrill off the power and control of rape, but just how to say the right things to the pshrinks.


Link to Hubbart Timeline - pdf



IntellectualPro -> RE: A rapist moving in next door (5/24/2014 9:46:29 AM)

Just find him a cosy place in South Central LA or East Palo Alto if he wants to be up north, and put him on house arrest when he's not at work. No one will be scared of him there. And they have a tendency to police themselves, if you know what I mean.



TheHeretic -> RE: A rapist moving in next door (5/24/2014 10:00:26 AM)

Well, putting him someplace else is moot at this point, but Lake LA is quite capable of policing itself, too. Someone going all vigilante on this guy is a legitimate concern.



smileforme50 -> RE: A rapist moving in next door (5/24/2014 10:23:18 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: TheHeretic


My suggestion has been that he be housed in a trailer on the grounds of a state facility. That was done previously in California, with a serial killer who had to be released. It worked out.



If you house him on the grounds of a state facility.....what's the point of "releasing" him from prison to begin with? That's not releasing him at all.

This is an issue that irritates me because this happens because people have a terminal case of NIMBY. And to top it off, they don't want criminals released, but at the same time, they don't want to pay any taxes to pay for the prison system to be able to keep all these people locked up. You can't have it both ways folks.



DaddySatyr -> RE: A rapist moving in next door (5/24/2014 10:41:19 AM)

Housing him in a trailer on the prison grounds might not be the optimum solution but it doesn't mean he's not "free".

Just because he's on the prison grounds doesn't mean he's in custody (in fact, it might mean he pays no property taxes or rent, if they don't have those mechanics in place?).

It's not only a case of NIMBY but, I think Rich has a good point, as well. Rich knows the community there far better than I do so I accept his concerns of vigilantism as plausible. There's another issue, though ...

With 40 known victims - and possibly twice as many more - there's a revenge factor that this (now old) piece of garbage may need to be concerned about. How many of his victims have sons, daughters, brothers, sisters, etc. that are still living and might not mind taking this rapist filth out of the picture? How many ladies has he raped and not killed that might have had children that want this guy's hide?

As for being one to complain about these guys being paroled; I have long been an advocate of death for rape/child molestation.







Screen captures still RULE! Ya feel me?



TheHeretic -> RE: A rapist moving in next door (5/24/2014 10:53:06 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: smileforme50


If you house him on the grounds of a state facility.....what's the point of "releasing" him from prison to begin with? That's not releasing him at all.




The case I referred to was a guy named Loren Herzog, one of the two men called the Speed Freak Killers. The trailer was placed outside the gate of a prison. He was not an inmate. He was not locked up, or subject to the rules in place on the other side of the wall. The restrictions he lived under were the same any paroled violent felon might have, but he had his own place, and his own front door he could walk out whenever he felt like it.

He resided in the trailer, without incident, for a couple of years, until he learned that the partner sent to death row on his testimony was returning the favor, and disclosing the location of more bodies. Knowing he would be tried on new charges, Herzog committed suicide.



tj444 -> RE: A rapist moving in next door (5/24/2014 11:02:53 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: smileforme50


quote:

ORIGINAL: TheHeretic


My suggestion has been that he be housed in a trailer on the grounds of a state facility. That was done previously in California, with a serial killer who had to be released. It worked out.



If you house him on the grounds of a state facility.....what's the point of "releasing" him from prison to begin with? That's not releasing him at all.

This is an issue that irritates me because this happens because people have a terminal case of NIMBY. And to top it off, they don't want criminals released, but at the same time, they don't want to pay any taxes to pay for the prison system to be able to keep all these people locked up. You can't have it both ways folks.


sure there is a difference, he may be housed on the facility grounds (spending his nights there) but free to go anywhere for work or when he feels like it, unlike those that are locked up 24/7..

as far as nimby goes, have you looked at who lives in your area? how many designated sex offenders live there? You cant get away from them, they are everywhere!.. even the safest community I know of (in SoCal) is gated & guarded 24/7, has 10,000 resident and there are 3 registered sex offenders living there in that community...

One thing I do find curious tho, why did the judge not release him into his own community/county instead of dumping the guy in another county all together? I am guessing he didnt want to face the wrath his community/county would lay on him.. [&:]



TheHeretic -> RE: A rapist moving in next door (5/24/2014 11:07:40 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: DaddySatyr

As for being one to complain about these guys being paroled; I have long been an advocate of death for rape/child molestation.
[/color]




Something I find funny is that some opponents of the death penalty frequently argue that it has no value as deterrent, but turn right around and insist that if we had the death penalty for rape/child molestation the rapists would be more likely to kill the victim as well, since they had nothing more to lose.

I completely agree that we wouldn't be in this pickle if the guy had been given the right sentence to begin with.



TheHeretic -> RE: A rapist moving in next door (5/24/2014 11:15:22 AM)

Sending him to LA County came out of earlier court hearings, TJ. That's where he was originally from. He moved to the bay area when he got out the first time.



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