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RE: Setting Boundaries during the "getting to know... - 7/10/2006 11:05:33 PM   
DaddyDommy


Posts: 4
Joined: 5/15/2006
Status: offline 		There's a quote I love that I think I made up (though I'm sure someone else said it at some point) which is that "you cannot give up control if you didn't have control to begin with."  Something that seems to be too prevalent in the D/s community is that subs should be broken, mindless creatures that Doms take and shape. 

While some might enjoy this, I do not and it doesn't seem like you do either.  Rather, when you come to a Dom whole in body and spirit and in control of yourself, then you will find it easier to know when to give up some or all of that control to your Dom.  It might sound cheesy, but a daily mantra of "I am a good person, I deserve respect, I deserve self-worth, I deserve a good Dom who treats me with care" can go a long way to helping you find a Dom who cares about those things. 

Also, creating a network of sub friends where you can consistently help each other get through your emotional and mental struggles can be invaluable. 

I would also hasten to remind you many Doms go through the same emotional and mental struggles.  While many of us like to pretend we're perfect, the truth is a lot of us pretty scared of the responsability of having a sub reliant on us so heavily.  The good Doms are aware of this and realize the fear of the sub also, leading to much healthier interactions and much more focus on cementing trust and a level of respect before moving to a higher plane. 

But some Doms turn their fears into a sort of wall where they are scared of trying to achieve that level of trust, of really opening up and getting to know each other before going further.  Blind power tends to be used by the fearful.

I say this simply to remind you it is okay to have fears and doubts, we all do.  But I also think what you are doing now should be lauded, trying to explore them further and do self-work before you enter into a relationship with someone.

Full on mental and physical domination means so much more when the Dominant party has had a chance to fully explore the mind and body of the sub in all venues and situations, which can only be done with a time of dating and casual friendship, as other people mentioned should be done.  Just remember that by requiring a time of casualness and slowness where you truly get to know each other, you are ensuring a level of mind-blowing mental and physical orgasams you could never achieve otherwise.  That thought always helps me out:-)



(in reply to JessieMe)
Profile   Post #: 41
RE: Setting Boundaries during the "getting to know... - 7/10/2006 11:37:20 PM   
Lordandmaster


Posts: 10943
Joined: 6/22/2004
Status: offline 		Maybe it would help if you knew that doms have a parallel problem on the other side?  I can't tell too much about myself to someone I've just met (or haven't even met yet).  I am completely honest with a slave, but it takes a long time before I'm ready to take someone as a slave, and before then, I'm not of the opinion that the other person is entitled to know everything about me.  Just as I want to know, bit by bit, more about who the other person is and what makes her different from everyone else, I also have to be careful about letting her know, bit by bit, more about who I am and what makes me different from everyone else.  I agree that it's a very awkward phase, but it's also necessary.  You're going to be talking to many more people than you'll eventually submit to, and not all of them deserve to know your innermost secrets.

quote:

ORIGINAL: JessieMe

I guess if I have an actual  "question" it is this..How do I allow myself the ability to have "boundaries" during the time of courtship without feeling like I want to curl up and die (figuratively not literally) each time I tell a perspective dominant "I cannot allow this to to happen at this time". 

(in reply to JessieMe)
Profile   Post #: 42
RE: Setting Boundaries during the "getting to know... - 7/11/2006 4:14:56 PM   
KnightofMists


Posts: 7149
Joined: 7/29/2005
Status: offline 		What I read here seems to be a frequent problem for many different submissives, particularly those that are new to exploring a D/s lifestyle.  I believe the problem is rather serious in that the mindset of driven to please can expose a submissive to very painful and risky situations.  I am concerned that anyone has the mindset that seems to reflect that having boundaries equates to being less submissive.  I simply state a phrase I have used on many occasions “Cheaply Given…. Cheaply Valued”

It is natural that submissives will be driven to give of themselves and I think it has been well stated by Mstrjx and Padriag that this drive results in discomfort when you are unable to actualize the giving of yourself to another.  However, it’s more important to note their following comments.

By Mstrjx
quote:

But, your first responsibility is to yourself.  You need to feel comfortable about your choice.  It might be the last one you are permitted (with any luck) if you are so inclined.  Therefore, your choice cannot be the wrong one.



And by Padriag
quote:

We all have emotions and we don't always control what we feel.  But we do control our actions, we are responsible for what we do.  You may feel submissive towards many, but you choose to act on that with only one.  That's special.


It is my perception from things that you have posted that you are cheapening yourself in the demonstrating your submissive nature to the various individual dominants that you come in contact with.  You seem to be motivated to be validated and valued by others that your demonstrations of submission are recognized by dominants.

You stated:
quote:

if I dont show some sort of willingness beforehand.. why would they want to meet me in real time ???


I ask… if you demonstrated your submissive nature without regard to whether the proclaimed Dominant is deserving of such treatment then what value does your submission have?

You stated:
quote:

why is this soo hard and why do I feel like its wrong to do so..


Not only does it feel wrong because of your inherent submissive nature to submit.  But, it is also rooted in your mindset that boundaries are contrary to submission.  In fact, I will state that this is mindset is dangerous and devaluing to the value of submission.  It is also rooted in your need to feel validated and valued as a submissive person.  These deep seeded thoughts are generating stress and negative thoughts when you are unable to demonstrate your submissive nature.

It is my suggestion that you need to change these mindsets to overcome the feeling that are generated because of them.  You need to reflect on what gives your demonstration of submissive value and what type of person deserves such value.  You need to reflect that you have value and it needs to be self-validated and not dependent on the opinion of another. You need to reflect that creating boundaries to which need to be establish creates value of your submission and not takes it away.  You need to reflect that a person meeting standards that earn your demonstrations of submission establish value and respect within the relationship.   You need to reflect that which is given cheaply will be viewed of little value.

< Message edited by KnightofMists -- 7/11/2006 4:15:28 PM >

_____________________________

Knight of Mists

An Optimal relationship is achieved when the individuals do what is best for themselves and their relationship.

(in reply to JessieMe)
Profile   Post #: 43
RE: Setting Boundaries during the "getting to know... - 7/11/2006 4:32:20 PM   
Mavis


Posts: 828
Joined: 2/8/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: JessieMe

I do not disagree with you there.. however, as I said in the OP.. what I am attempting to do is work around my feelings as opposed to the Doms actions / reactions.. in other words.. why is this soo hard and why do I feel like its wrong to do so..


i know those feelings well!  if it helps for you to remember you are protecting the rights of your future "One"..   here is a response i used that allowed me to show my willingness to be submissive when the right one came along, without having to actually give up things i felt were better kept.

"Journal?  Sure, i'd love to do some journaling for the one i serve.  When i do, it'll be a happy day to tell Him  "Master, this is one of those things i saved for Your eyes only."

The prospective knows you're willing, but a proper dominant will find it even more special to know He isn't among a list of prospectives that have taste-tested your submission.  It hits on all that "virgin appeal"  without you actually having to be a virgin in the classic sense. 

And you'll have pride in knowing when you do select One, your stuff is fresh, and He'll know it, because He was turned down along the way before He got ya..  <grins>

<blushes because she keeps finding a reason to post in the Masters forum, but so many of these questions can use input from both sides!>



_____________________________

~ Mavis

none of this applies to me, i'm only playing with lables this week.

(in reply to JessieMe)
Profile   Post #: 44
RE: Setting Boundaries during the "getting to know... - 7/11/2006 4:43:41 PM   
Caretakr


Posts: 1221
Joined: 6/24/2006
Status: offline 		I started a discussion about Transparency on another server.

Here's what it's been boiling down to. It only comes with intimate contact, and a desire to commit. If you cannot offer that, don't expect it.

(in reply to DaddyDommy)
Profile   Post #: 45
RE: Setting Boundaries during the "getting to know... - 7/13/2006 7:12:36 AM   
JessieMe


Posts: 510
Joined: 6/5/2006
Status: offline 		I just wanted to give an update on this post really quick and then I will leave it as it has done for me all it was intended to do.

Since I have received all of this input I have been angry at myself and at the doms who "put me in these positions of having to say no" (which I know is not factual but simply my view of it). Sometimes anger is good and it takes sound advice to get past the feeling of being used and really see what is going on. My unhappiness has truly been my own making. It seems that in the last few weeks there have been doms who had "considered" owning me previously and have come back to try again. Of course, it was supposed to be on the same terms as before when it didnt work.

I have begun to say NO to the cyber instructions and such that have made me incredibly uncomfortable in the past. My fear was that they would say "my way or the highway" and that would be that and I am truly very interested in persuing the relationships to see if they might be a solid match because in almost all other aspects, its good. You were all correct. My fears were baseless. They are respecting the boundary but not showing less interest.

I thank all of you from the bottom of my heart!

_____________________________

This is who I am
And this is all I know.
That I must choose to live for all that I can give
The spark that makes the Power grow
<Immortality by Celine Dion>

(in reply to Caretakr)
Profile   Post #: 46
RE: Setting Boundaries during the "getting to know... - 7/13/2006 11:02:46 AM   
Mavis


Posts: 828
Joined: 2/8/2004
Status: offline 		jessie..  wow, so happy you're seeing the results already, what a great lightbulb moment, eh?  am happy for you, one less hurdle in life.  :)

(in reply to JessieMe)
Profile   Post #: 47
RE: Setting Boundaries during the "getting to know... - 7/13/2006 8:57:02 PM   
Taylore


Posts: 121
Joined: 6/19/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: JessieMe

I am in the unenviable position of having to search for a Dom since the breakup of my last one. There are many lessons that not only have I learned this time around (finally) but fully expect to actually try to implement this time around. In all the times I "thought" I had found someone only to find I really hadnt or that it just didnt work out, I never lost my ability to trust the next one that came along. I am coming to almost hate the part of myself that responds so instinctually to a dominant demeanor with my own submissiveness. I have become a trap to myself and this time I am finding that I am putting up more boundaries.. the problem is.. each time I put up a boundary, I feel like I am training myself NOT to be submissive and I feel like I am attempting to kill a part of myself that I am also looking to have fulfilled.

I guess if I have an actual  "question" it is this..How do I allow myself the ability to have "boundaries" during the time of courtship without feeling like I want to curl up and die (figuratively not literally) each time I tell a perspective dominant "I cannot allow this to to happen at this time". 

As you post your responses please note that I am not looking for the standard "If a dom wont respect your limits he is not worth the spit you toss to the sidewalk" type responses.. My question has to do with dealing with my own feelings.. not someone elses actions.  Thank you.


How do you allow yourself the abiity to have boundaries, and yet still be able to be yourself?
May I ask why you feel that by having certain boundaries in place makes you feel so horrible?
When I first met Master, I was brand new to this life. Master knew this, and went out of his way to make sure that I understood the meaning behind everything that he did, I did, he said, I said, etc. He insisted that boundaries be in place, so that I could discover exactly who I was, and where I was going. Having those boundaries in place, while they did cause me some discomfort at first, also helped me to come to know myself.
For yourself, because you have obviously been down this road before, it is a bit different. You seek to maintain the identity that you have obtained for yourself, while at the same time, you desperatly want to let go. ( I am just guessing, but this is the idea I get from reading your post. If I am wrong, please correct me. ) It is good that you choose to go slowly.
I would have to question though: Have you discussed your feelings over this with prospective Dominants? Expressed to them that despite your overwhelming need to allow nature to run it's course, your need for concern and caution must come first? From those that I have met in RL, I have come to understand that they understand when a submissive/slave has these conflicts within themselves. And often, when they are aware of such conflict, they tread a bit more slowly, and with more care when trying to 'make a connection'.
 
I rambled on a bit, and I am not sure that I expressed what I wanted to say clearly. Your post touched me deeply though.

_____________________________

Taylore

(in reply to JessieMe)
Profile   Post #: 48
RE: Setting Boundaries during the "getting to know... - 7/13/2006 9:21:47 PM   
Sinergy


Posts: 9383
Joined: 4/26/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: JessieMe
How do I allow myself the ability to have "boundaries" during the time of courtship without feeling like I want to curl up and die (figuratively not literally) each time I tell a perspective dominant "I cannot allow this to to happen at this time". 

As you post your responses please note that I am not looking for the standard "If a dom wont respect your limits he is not worth the spit you toss to the sidewalk" type responses.. My question has to do with dealing with my own feelings.. not someone elses actions.  Thank you.



My initial response to this is probably affected by the fact that I teach women how to have and set boundaries in my job.  So please
think of my response taking that into effect.

Now, if I am building something, and I have a bunch of drywall screws, wood, and a power drill with a screwdriver head on it, I
can insist that I am the Dominant in the relationship and beat the drywall screws into the wood with the power drill.

But to me, the wood needs to be put together with drywall screws, the drywall screws are intended to be screwed into the wood holding it into place, and the power drill with the screwdriver head
is intended to screw drywall screws into the wood.

Things in life have a certain way they work.  A person can jump around and scream that they are in charge all they like, but I have yet to meet a Dominant who can make his submissive levitate because of her truly submissive nature and his pure Old Guard, connection to the earliest essence of BDSM, True Aficionado of The Story of O, etc., Dominantness.

So to summarize, is a person you are entering into a dynamic with, who cannot respect the fact that you have certain boundaries that are part of you, somebody you really want to be involved with?

Just me, could be wrong, etc.

Sinergy

_____________________________

"There is a fine line between clever and stupid"
David St. Hubbins "This Is Spinal Tap"

"Every so often you let a word or phrase out and you want to catch it and bring it back. You cant do that, it is gone, gone forever." J. Danforth Quayle


(in reply to JessieMe)
Profile   Post #: 49
RE: Setting Boundaries during the "getting to know... - 7/13/2006 11:04:37 PM   
Vancouver_cinful


Posts: 1911
Joined: 2/3/2004
Status: offline 		Seems like there are a lot of us out there who know exactly what you are going through, Jessie. It sucks. Thanks for sharing this, for all of us. I know most people feel that dating is dating, whether you are vanilla or D/s, but I'm not sure I agree. I just wish I had answers to make it easier for all of us.

Thank goodness we can come here, and work out these conflicting feelings, at least.

_____________________________

Cin

quote:


My Karma Account is huge, but I just can't seem to make a withdrawal!!

http://cinful.wordpress.com

(in reply to JessieMe)
Profile   Post #: 50
RE: Setting Boundaries during the "getting to know... - 7/16/2006 6:11:55 AM   
LeatherBentOne


Posts: 469
Joined: 9/27/2005
Status: offline 		Jesse,

We all need boundaries, even Dommes and Masters.  I suggest that you explore what your needs are and learn to distin.guish them from your wants.  You may find the things you need are the very things you may not want.  You need to feel loved, protected, safe, etc. but you may want a Domme or Master who keeps you constantly off-balance in theses areas.  Once you find what you need and want, list them on paper and prioritize them.  Use them as a guide in selecting a Domme/Master.  Your needscome first as you are ultimately responsible for your own safety and happiness ~ the difference between a self-aware sub/slave and a doormat who doesnt have a clue who they are inside, let alone what they need or want.  That's what a strong, healthy sub means and has nothing to do with being less submissive.

My sub is very independent, intelligent, assertive, outgoing, outspoken, but she is no less a sub for being such.  When it comes to her submission, she gives all and freely, with respect and obedience.  Her submission to me is a part of who she is as a whole person that must function in a vanilla world to survive.  However, once she crosses that threshold her burden is lifted and she is free, willing and safe to show her submission, not be bound by public opinion, decision making, worries, frustations or threats to her psyche. 

In fact, its the contrast between the side of her thats exposed to the outside world and the side thats exposed to me in private that turns me on.  Why would I want something she gives to everyone else?  I know that her gift is only for me.

LeatherBentOne

(in reply to sapphirepleasure)
Profile   Post #: 51
RE: Setting Boundaries during the "getting to know... - 8/29/2006 4:50:43 PM   
gypsygrl


Posts: 1471
Joined: 10/8/2005
From: new york state
Status: offline 		I don't have any answers, but I've often felt the same way.  Each time around, I find that I have more and more boundaries.  I'm sure part of this is just a learning process, but, like you, I'm ambivalent about it because it feels like a loss.  I think of myself sometimes as being like Poland, with no natural defenses and I'm always trying to re-draw my borders to include a mountain range or a river. :)

I just wanted to comment because I identify so closely with your question/dilemma.  Thanks for posting.



(in reply to sapphirepleasure)
Profile   Post #: 52
RE: Setting Boundaries during the "getting to know... - 8/29/2006 6:52:00 PM   
CuriouslyKat


Posts: 118
Joined: 8/21/2006
From: Kansas
Status: offline 		Just wanted to say I have felt the same way as the OP and reading this thread has helped bunches.  Y'all rock. 

< Message edited by CuriouslyKat -- 8/29/2006 6:53:25 PM >

(in reply to DaddyDommy)
Profile   Post #: 53
RE: Setting Boundaries during the "getting to know... - 8/29/2006 6:55:54 PM   
popeye1250


Posts: 18104
Joined: 1/27/2006
From: New Hampshire
Status: offline 		Sorry, but I will no longer reply to people in here in future who have no visable profile.

(in reply to CuriouslyKat)
Profile   Post #: 54
RE: Setting Boundaries during the "getting to know... - 8/30/2006 12:37:04 PM   
CuriouslyKat


Posts: 118
Joined: 8/21/2006
From: Kansas
Status: offline 		If you were refering to me then I do have a visable profile......always had as far as I know. 

(in reply to popeye1250)
Profile   Post #: 55
RE: Setting Boundaries during the "getting to know... - 8/30/2006 1:36:15 PM   
kitty2MLoneWolf


Posts: 149
Joined: 8/19/2006
Status: offline 		Popeye,

My profile was deleted and recreated as this one. It says on my signature line that I used to be JessieMe. My owner now calls me kitty hence the name change :)

You will note that this is actually an older thread but others find the information good so I am glad it has come back for the new ones who may not have had the opportunity to follow it back when it was originally posted.

_____________________________

used to be jessieme but I got a life <grin>

Dont worry about what other people think....they dont do it very often!

(in reply to CuriouslyKat)
Profile   Post #: 56
RE: Setting Boundaries during the "getting to know... - 8/30/2006 2:35:38 PM   
Fawne


Posts: 462
Status: offline 		kitty2MLoneWolf:

Glad to hear you are doing well!

Thanks for bumping this thread to the top.

The insight and advice shared is invaluable.
I never'd say that lightly.

Thank you all.
Humbly, fawne

(in reply to kitty2MLoneWolf)
Profile   Post #: 57
RE: Setting Boundaries during the "getting to know... - 8/30/2006 4:12:15 PM   
popeye1250


Posts: 18104
Joined: 1/27/2006
From: New Hampshire
Status: offline 		No, JesseMe the OP doesn't have a visable profile.

(in reply to Fawne)
Profile   Post #: 58
RE: Setting Boundaries during the "getting to know... - 8/30/2006 5:25:30 PM   
llkkto


Posts: 9
Joined: 2/6/2006
Status: offline 		A very good thread. Important issue and thoughtful contributions. I'm glad I read it. :)

(in reply to JessieMe)
Profile   Post #: 59
RE: Setting Boundaries during the "getting to know... - 8/30/2006 6:58:03 PM   
kitty2MLoneWolf


Posts: 149
Joined: 8/19/2006
Status: offline 		Popeye,

I am the OP :)

_____________________________

used to be jessieme but I got a life <grin>

Dont worry about what other people think....they dont do it very often!

(in reply to llkkto)
Profile   Post #: 60
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