RE: Do we really need men? (Full Version)

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Aswad -> RE: Do we really need men? (2/3/2008 11:15:24 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: undergroundsea


Just thought I'd comment on some things you said.

quote:

Without any adjusted research, it seems empirically that men are more prone to violence and aggression.


More prone to physical violence and aggression, definitely.

There is no question about the contemporary empirics on this point, and we are most overrepresented when it comes to violence with a severe outcome, including rape. 3% of all Danish men will have been convicted of rape by the time they reach my age, which is a significant number by any metric. One can reasonably assume slightly higher figures in the US, and significantly higher in certain parts of the world, as the figures for immigrants are 6 times as high as for native born; even assuming a higher likelyhood of conviction due to racism and prejudice, we are still left with a significant cultural difference in that statistic.

Cape Town and Somalia come to mind

quote:

I am unsure how much of it is biological (which I see to apply more to aggression), and how much of it is cultural conditioning (which I see to apply more to violence).


I have the benefit of having grown up in the midst of a rapid and significant culture shift, with a sister that is some years younger, and thus has offered a fair bit of insight as to the developments in the upcoming generation. Also, I have a fair bit of contact with various police officers, psychiatrists and the like, who tend to share statistical developments. What is clear, is that women are rapidly closing the gap to men when it comes to violence, especially among youth. It is even reflected in suicide statistics, where they are generally moving toward more traditionally male routes, i.e. irreversible means. That basically translates to violence: firearms, knives, etc.

I've seen several police departments stripped of people to respond- in riot gear- to a showdown with girls carrying cudgels with nails driven through them, illegal length blades that have no other use than violence, and so forth. I've heard credible threats to the effect that "I'll slice you upen from cunt to ribs if you so much as look at my boy again" from girls sporting knives and the like. Bear in mind that this is Norway, with a measly 4.5 million inhabitants, and violent crime rates that are orders of magnitude lower than what is seen in the US, along with a similar improvement in recidivism rates across the board.

Fact is, the girls are now a lot more vicious than the boys in some areas of this country, particularly with each other.

There is some correlation to hormones; feminine girls on average have a lot more testosterone than all but the outright masculine ones, and these are the ones that are most strongly represented. However, there is no getting around the fact that the dominant factor in all of this is cultural. My sister was always something of a tomboy; she'd rush a boy twice her age, get knocked down, get back up, and keep going. In my own generation, that would be (irrationally) looked poorly on. In hers, it was unusual, but cool. In the one that followed her, the boy would have a pack of them to contend with, and end up in the hospital if he was lucky. Over name-calling. There's a cultural imperative that females should avoid violence that is fading away, about which I make no value-judgment.

quote:

If I see counterexamples to the generalization--men who avoid violence and women who are violent--it suggests that cultural conditioning plays a more significant role than biological tendency towards violence.


I used to be a steaming pile of testosterone. A comparatively non-violent one, in the sense that I would refrain from using it until I either lost it (and my self-control hasn't been a limiting factor there), or had no other recourse. The result being, obviously, that boys who respected nothing but violence would occasionally (a lot rarer than what one would expect) push me that far. Which was a one-time deal; I've never had to deal with the same guy twice, whether the resolution was them backing down upon seeing that invisible line being palpably crossed, or from owing their survival to circumstance. Growing up, the threshold kept going up, and is currently at the point where I've responded non-violently to physical attacks that could have been crippling when I've had any option to do so.

All in all, I was involved in far fewer altercations than most of the boys my age, and never did engage in skirmishes and brawls, but biology suggests it shouldn't have been so. Perhaps it is because I chose not to be part of the culture around me. Or perhaps it was because I had parents who understood that respect does not equate to fear, and had a surprisingly open-minded and rational view on most things in life. Maybe I just had a solid grasp of the human cost of violence. Or maybe I just had no need for it, most of the time.

Either way, I was atypically peaceful, while my sister was atypically aggressive (on par with an average boy of her generation).

quote:

To the extent the tendency for violence comes from cultural conditioning, I think both men and women share the responsibility for effects of upbringing and cultural conditioning.


Quite so. And that raises interesting points, since women were, until recently, the primary caregivers in the West. They remain so in various other parts of the world. One can make a good case that cultural inheritance, under such circumstances, is primarily matrilineal in nature. Which has implications, as does the recent shift in this area.

Personally, I've found little use for placing blame; trying not to repeat past mistakes has generally worked better for me.

quote:

I think the tide is headed towards generations where the balance in power will shift towards women.


Up here, if all women's rights efforts halted today, the inertia would settle on a balance that slightly favors women in a few years.

This is how things work; people are impatient for change, so they apply more force to get changes more quickly, neglecting the fact that all significant processes involving culture and society take time. Consequently, the pendulum keeps swinging; what electrical engiineers would refer to as "overshoot and ringing" (a consequence of an underdamped circuit, i.e. too high Q value). It's somewhat sad that a single, numerical value can accurately describe the entirety of a concerted effort by humanity in such a noble endeavour as to bring an end to gender-based discrimination.

quote:

When such power lies with women, I expect there will be instances of abuse of power.


That has been the case with a slightly higher percentage of women in power than men in power up here, so it seems a reasonable assumption. If inertia causes the balance to swing too far toward an outright female-dominated society, as seems likely to happen, you will likely find that this causes a problem. Not to mention if the sentiments expressed by the OP are in any way representative; that can quickly end up with a backlash that- again- hurts all women, which is (I hope) the last thing anyone wants. I prefer to think, as you do, though, that those sentiments are rare, and usually tempered with a realization that the generalization does not hold. If so, it can work out well for both genders in the end.

Kudos on a lot of good posts here.

Health,
al-Aswad.



littlesarbonn -> RE: Do we really need men? (2/3/2008 11:17:45 AM)

I'm starting to believe that I need to be more controversial in my responses, like do some kind of gender bashing or make really ridiculous comments that feed Neanderthal ways, to actually get to engage in conversations on this board these days. I've noticed that those who actually contribute to the conversation without going all extreme tend to get ignored so that we can have lots of discussion over the really stupid peoples' comments.



MisPandora -> RE: Do we really need men? (2/3/2008 11:47:22 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: ShaktiSama

quote:

ORIGINAL: MisPandora
Not *all* fem doms are offended.  Then again, not all of us are feminazis or supremacists.....


Yeah, that's a real helpful and positive contribution.  "Feminazi" is a great word to use about someone whose values and ideas you don't share, isn't it?  It's kind of like calling a pro domme a "whore".  [:'(]

If you ever want a mutually supportive community of female dominants to exist--try holding up your end once in a while.  I do not attack other women on this forum.  It is a shame that they cannot say the same about me.

No one ever said anything about the desire for a "mutually supportive community", certainly not on the internet.  And most certainly not in an environment where it's been so ugly.   I just don't get why you can't walk away from this.  You made exceptional points many posts ago, and sadly, those eloquent words have since been lost in a sea of hateful rhetoric. 



Aswad -> RE: Do we really need men? (2/3/2008 11:55:36 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: MisPandora

No one ever said anything about the desire for a "mutually supportive community", certainly not on the internet.


Minor question, if I may.

Would you say that your issue is with a mutually supportive community, or with such support deriving solely from gender, or is it something else?

Health,
al-Aswad.



ShiftedJewel -> RE: Do we really need men? (2/3/2008 12:34:29 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: littlesarbonn

I'm starting to believe that I need to be more controversial in my responses, like do some kind of gender bashing or make really ridiculous comments that feed Neanderthal ways, to actually get to engage in conversations on this board these days. I've noticed that those who actually contribute to the conversation without going all extreme tend to get ignored so that we can have lots of discussion over the really stupid peoples' comments.


I agree and I find myself being guilty of such behavior. Thank you for putting it back in perspective.
 
Jewel



MisPandora -> RE: Do we really need men? (2/4/2008 12:34:21 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Aswad

quote:

ORIGINAL: MisPandora

No one ever said anything about the desire for a "mutually supportive community", certainly not on the internet.


Minor question, if I may.

Would you say that your issue is with a mutually supportive community, or with such support deriving solely from gender, or is it something else?

Health,
al-Aswad.

Gender most certainly isn't my issue -- two of my closest friends are men (one gay, one straight.) 

I just don't have much faith in random strangers "supporting" one another when "community" is such an iffy word even in the RT groups in BDSM.  We all choose our inner circle or "family" of those we care to have around us.  I don't see a chat board as being "community"; rather, it's like a pinboard at the local supermarket where folks tack up ads or ideas or recipies, hoping someone else will take interest or respond. 



undergroundsea -> RE: Do we really need men? (2/4/2008 3:45:28 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Aswad


I accept that instances of violence amongst women are increasing and cultural outlook upon violence by women is different today than it was a generation or two ago. As I discuss this matter, I want to take care that I do not inadvertently suggest women are worse than men with respect to violence for to do so would be inconsistent with my beliefs. In my opinion, your post leaves room for such an interpretation, unintended as it may be.

quote:

Fact is, the girls are now a lot more vicious than the boys in some areas of this country, particularly with each other.


With Lara Craft and Alias, how could it not be? ;-)

With a discussion only of violence by women, and the statement above, your post suggests violence amongst women is exceeding that amongst men.

I don't have access to data that shows how the statistics about violence compare between men and women. Based on my observations and intuition, I expect that the tendency for violence would be greater amongst men due to societal conditioning, biological tendency for aggression, availability of physical strength and a correspondingly greater tendency to rely upon it to achieve an end, and empirical data that is available to me through everyday observations. I recognize that my observations have limited information about the newest generation.

I reiterate that I believe good and bad to be distributed across men and women. Due to this belief, and the statement in the paragraph above, the idea that women today have a greater tendency for violence does not appeal to my thinking. I apply the same critical thinking to this suggestion that I do to other such suggestions; if there is empirical data you see that suggests one sex is more likely to behave one way or the other, how reliable is this data and is there a reasonable explanation that supports the theory? In absence of suitable information that satisfies these questions, I am unlikely to be intellectually convinced of this idea.

quote:

One can make a good case that cultural inheritance, under such circumstances, is primarily matrilineal in nature. Which has implications, as does the recent shift in this area.


Indeed care by a mother is one strong influence in the development of one's values. Other strong influences include the father, peers, education and educators, and media. I expect that peers and media plays a greater role today than they did in past generations, especially in families where both spouses work.

I recognize the greater tendency of violence in times past, and in parts of the world where care by the mother likely had or has a greater influence than it does in present day Western society where both spouses might work. I have not thought enough about this idea to offer any further thoughts in this post.

quote:

what electrical engiineers would refer to as "overshoot and ringing" (a consequence of an underdamped circuit, i.e. too high Q value).


Ah, the utility of technical jargon to succinctly convey everyday concepts. A person who must begin to date a second person before breaking off with a first so as to avoid being alone is, more concisely, a make before you break switch. And an item you can order at a restaurant that is not on the menu is, more concisely, an undocumented feature.

As for the matter at hand and to further the nerd speak, perhaps some ringing will occur. However, I don't think the system will become unstable and go into oscillation, and I expect the ringing will be not too great because of the dV/dT and the capacitance that men represent ;-)

quote:


quote:

When such power lies with women, I expect there will be instances of abuse of power.


That has been the case with a slightly higher percentage of women in power than men in power up here, so it seems a reasonable assumption.


As above, I do not see a reason for there to be a greater tendency to abuse power amongst women. If there is data that suggests that women are showing greater tendency to abuse power, I would be curious about the reliability of the sample, and if there is a reasonable explanation that supports the notion.

quote:

 If inertia causes the balance to swing too far toward an outright female-dominated society, as seems likely to happen, you will likely find that this causes a problem.


I agree that militancy towards female empowerment would undermine that cause. However, I do not expect such militancy to prevail. I take the sampling given by this thread with a grain of of salt because (1) how much (as in little) I expect the sentiments conveyed to represent actual political ambitions, and (2) the sampling is skewed towards those who carry frustration or political resentment and blame against men. That is, I expect the nature of the thread is more likely to invite participation by those who carry such sentiments than those who do not.

Based on patterns I see, women will acquire greater economic and social power, and whatever power education and knowledge brings. I expect it will more immediately translate to power dynamics within relationships and families, and will eventually appear in institutions and organizations. The power abuse I expect that will occur will primarily be at an individual level (one person in power abusing power over those under that person's influence) rather than one sex against the other at an institutional level.

I expect that the extent of a broader abuse of power that is defined based on sex would occur in the form of favoritism in choosing others for positions of power (especially at first as one might expect for a group that considers itself underrepresented), and a greater emphasis on removing old institutions that favor men versus old institutions that favor women, thus, at least initially, leaving a set of institutions that favor women. I don't expect there will be a deliberate effort to oppress men.

If there is anything like a war between the sexes, I expect it will be intercultural rather than intracultural and while the question of roles of the sexes might contribute to the differences between the cultures in conflict, it would not be the primary issue.

I think we are headed towards times where the gap in gender roles defined by society will become smaller, and what defines attractiveness or success in the sexes will begin to merge.

Mark my words for in the future there will be movies about me with titles such as Man Who Saw The Day After Tomorrow (since Man Who Saw Tomorrow is already taken) ;-)

Cheers,

Sea



Aswad -> RE: Do we really need men? (2/4/2008 5:53:54 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: undergroundsea

In my opinion, your post leaves room for such an interpretation, unintended as it may be.


My apologies; such was not my intent, and I should perhaps have been clearer on that.

Globally, and even nationally, it is clear that man are ahead on violence in all age groups. The only comment I intended to the contrary, was that in some areas of my own country, there is a temporary unbalance among the youngest generations, simply in the manner of the pendulum swinging slightly past its target before eventually coming to rest at the point of balance.

quote:

With a discussion only of violence by women, and the statement above, your post suggests violence amongst women is exceeding that amongst men.


I did note that men commit more violence. That seemed so much a given that it didn't bear discussing.

quote:

I reiterate that I believe good and bad to be distributed across men and women.


I quite agree.

There is no sexual dismorphism to account for any difference in moral soundness and character; consequently, it is exclusively tied to rearing and culture. A general trend has started that entails a reversal of a cultural imperative against violence in women, but that is not an expression of a difference of character, merely a development in the social expectations regarding restraint. I expect that there may be some overshoot in some areas, while things are settling down, but I have no reason to suspect that any imbalance will occcur.

quote:

I recognize the greater tendency of violence in times past, and in parts of the world where care by the mother likely had or has a greater influence than it does in present day Western society where both spouses might work. I have not thought enough about this idea to offer any further thoughts in this post.


No worries. I'm not remotely done considering it myself.

quote:

Ah, the utility of technical jargon to succinctly convey everyday concepts.


[:D]

It is a fairly inescapable fact that the technical fields almost exclusively need terms that denote something, whereas colloquial language almost exclusively uses them to connote something, and that the two are stark opposites in terms of the semantic scope of words, etc.

quote:

As for the matter at hand and to further the nerd speak, perhaps some ringing will occur.


That is indeed the bit I was referencing that unfortunately appeared as if I was suggesting something else.

quote:

However, I don't think the system will become unstable and go into oscillation, and I expect the ringing will be not too great because of the dV/dT and the capacitance that men represent ;-)


I certainly hope not. Self-resonant circuits tend to let out the magic smoke rather quickly. [;)]

On the bright side, or tremendously depressing side, depending on point of view... we may soon have the necessary data to calculate the ratio between the inertia of the system and the magnitude of the initial impulse. That will be rather interesting to compare to other such effects. Would you say that it is most accurate to view it as an LC circuit, or an RC or LR one?

quote:

As above, I do not see a reason for there to be a greater tendency to abuse power amongst women.


Neither do I, so I would hope it is simply ringing, or a statistical anomaly.

quote:

If there is data that suggests that women are showing greater tendency to abuse power, I would be curious about the reliability of the sample, and if there is a reasonable explanation that supports the notion.


Politics offer 5-10 election terms as sample points, so it's a bit early to start calling it useful data.

The closest thing to solid data would probably be from child-rearing, and I would be hesitant to read too much into that.

quote:

That is, I expect the nature of the thread is more likely to invite participation by those who carry such sentiments than those who do not.


~nods~

quote:

I don't expect there will be a deliberate effort to oppress men.


We quite agree, it would seem.

quote:

I think we are headed towards times where the gap in gender roles defined by society will become smaller, and what defines attractiveness or success in the sexes will begin to merge.


Unless we are so unfortunate as to see a latchup (gate, meet coil; coil, meet step function), I agree that will be the eventual settling point.

Health,
al-Aswad.



parttimehotty -> RE: Do we really need men? (2/4/2008 8:33:00 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: LotusSong

Lasha,

Well said.  But we do need them to open pickle jars on occasion :)

Actually, I think we need to have the WOMAN's surname be passed to the child to identify lineage. Somebody ALWAYS know who the mother is.  (except in case of abandonment on a doorstep)

Lotus


i need 'em to catch the bugs/mice....



Dnomyar -> RE: Do we really need men? (2/4/2008 9:10:36 AM)

Jewel. Don't beat yourself up on this. So we inject some sarcastic humor into these post. A lot of these post tend to go in circles. They need people like us to bring civility back into the post.



LadyClaudiaVan -> RE: Do we really need men? (2/4/2008 4:45:05 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: mystique2003
I attempt not to give off hand insults and then get defensive about what I wrote. 

As you seem to do.
Whatever



Well I very much certainly do see what you mean about not getting defensive.



undergroundsea -> RE: Do we really need men? (2/4/2008 11:38:17 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Aswad


Thanks for the clarification.

I can see how rebelling against societal expectations might act as a factor that affects behavior.

Cheers,

Sea



LadyJeelys -> RE: Do we really need men? (2/5/2008 4:39:32 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Lashra

Let me start by saying I am having a bad day, so this is not a happy thread. I do not feel well, my arthritic back is acting up very badly, my gallbladder hurts and yes, it needs to be removed. I am also PMSing and yes, I own a gun   and no this has nothing to do with BDSM, it is just a frustrated Mistress letting off a bit of steam.



Ok, everyone has a bad day. However, I have to say, it rather concerns me that a Mistress lets off steam by bashing men. I know its a matter of seeing Femdom in different ways, but for me, being Mistress means being in control-first of myself then of my guys. If let off steam by projecting my annoyance, I could could become hurtful and dangerous.

quote:


I made the mistake of listening to the news and it put me in an even worse state of mind then I was already in. The news story was about the rape of an Iraqi girl by American soldiers. Now I am not looking for political debate, an ethical debate or a religious one, or anything of that nature. I am not looking to flame or be flamed. I just want to bitch. I love men, so please do not think I am a man hater, for I am nothing of the kind. I have a male sub that I love with all my being.

It is just; when you as a woman look at the world today can you truly say that men have done a wonderful job in their so-called leadership roles?



Well, no, but then I don't see men as particulary having "leadership roles" anymore than women have followship roles. Men, just like women are human beings with flaws.


quote:


Am I the only one who some days wants to beat the living shit out of  nearly every alpha male she see's and not in a fun way?


Well, no, I guess not cause I certainly enjoy beating men......however, I suspect you don't mean are you the only one who gets sadistic pleasure of making a strong man cry. If I'm understanding the actual question, while you may not be the only one, I at least don't share that view. I love strong bold men. I think they make the sweetest slaves. But more, even in general I like alpha males, even when they aren't my alpha males.

quote:

Do you ever get sick and tired of hearing how women are supposed to be submissive to men and to let them rule things, when most of them cannot even rule a pet hamster?


Where are you hearing this? It sounds like your quoting or paraphasing a branch of Christian teaching. If that is where this is coming from, if some Christian has ticked you off, then perhaps you could take time to listen to the whole argument. I am Christian, and I believe that the Bible teaches full equality. But at the same time, the Christians who disagree with my view aren't ogres out oppressing women. Their whole teaching is more complex than that.....and just because we disagree with someone we don't have to get angry with them.


quote:


Do you ever want to scream stop raping and killing us (and our children) because you believe that it is your God given right to do so, or just because your physically stronger/bigger (not always) that you can get away with it?


Are you talking about women who rape and kill or only men? See, yes we hear about women being the victims----but men are also victims of violence perpetrated by women. The only thing is, its still not culturally acceptable for men to admit they've been victims of sexual assault and we still see child molesters as dirty old men and not the young woman down the road. When a young boy is assault, society tends to give the wink wink nod nod that he's benefitted from an older womans' experience---we don't tend to see it as the horror of molestation (as several high profile female teacher male student cases have shown.)



quote:

Do you ever want to physically bash some guy who has beaten and or abused his wife/girlfriend in some fashion, then justifies it by saying that the bible (or whatever religion/philosophy) says its ok?


No, what I do instead is actually teach what the Bible truly says and I'll answer this from a Biblical perspective since you brought up the Bible. According to the Bible we've all failed. Its not my place to judge an abusers sin--after all 1) more than likely the victim has feelings for this person. Nothing is worse for many victims of domestic violence than to have this person they love (whether it is healthy love or not) bashed. A more healthy response is to try and help the abuser stop being an abuser. 2) Most abusers are themselves victims of abuse. So what are you going to do, go back through history to beat up the original abuser? 3) Isn't this answer just a perpetration of violence and loss of control? Wouldn't this be advocating the very action you decry? Finally, if you disagree with their Biblical interpretation, offer a legitimate Biblical challenge. If they think the Bible says its OK, ask them what verse what passage.....ask them why Malachi says that God hates those who rains violence on themselves (a reflect which in ancient Hebrew refered to spouses). Frankly, getting ticked and loosing self control doesn't fix anything----but by controlling ourselves we can make positive changes.

Incidentally, if you're interested in making such a practical change, message me as I'm developing workshops on domestic violence in the church and would be very happy to have a volunteer.



quote:


Do you ever feel the urge to choke the life out of a proven child molester when you see them on the news?


No, not after one of my children got upset because someone said her parents were monsters. It broke her heart that people mocked and attacked the people she loved. (I am not birth mother.)


quote:


Do you seethe when you hear that women do not need equal rights or control of their own bodies IE abortion?



Well, actually abortion involves another body.....but I won't get into that.


quote:


Do you ever get angry with other women who seemingly blindly follow anything the patriarchal system instructs her too?


No, absolutely not. Just because I disagree with someone does not mean they are wrong and I am right. Plus the reality is that patriarchal systems give women power and many women enjoy exercising that power.....is it the kind of power I want, no. But again, if it works for them, ok.

quote:


Do you ever feel that all the men should be gathered up and put into cages and only let out for breeding purposes and drone work?



Only if its my cages.


And sorry for the misspellings...but I'm late to work.



LadyEllen -> RE: Do we really need men? (2/5/2008 5:17:54 AM)

I'm thinking that the moral of this thread is to be careful what you post.

Since even years later it can come back to haunt you.

E



Dnomyar -> RE: Do we really need men? (2/5/2008 8:53:57 AM)

LadyEllen is that were I went wrong. I did'nt have morals in my post?  Woe is me that I do'nt belong to the moral majority. Ducks and peeks out from under my cover.



LadyEllen -> RE: Do we really need men? (2/5/2008 8:59:15 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Dnomyar

LadyEllen is that were I went wrong. I did'nt have morals in my post?  Woe is me that I do'nt belong to the moral majority. Ducks and peeks out from under my cover.


I wouldnt worry about it. It follows simply from being here that none of us have any morals, surely? I know I dont - and I'd hope I belonged to the immoral majority!

E



darchChylde -> RE: Do we really need men? (2/5/2008 9:01:16 AM)

The oral what? Sorry, i get distracted.



LaTigresse -> RE: Do we really need men? (2/5/2008 11:02:07 AM)

Using fast reply......

In reading thru the new posts of this old thread I am reminded again of something I have been working very hard at myself.

If women really do want the respect and leadership opportunities they feel they deserve, they need to stand in front of a mirror and do an honest assessment of their own words and actions. Change their petulant spoiled princess behaviour, and begin a path of self control and awareness that EARNS them the respect and leadership they feel they are due.



FemFetishDoll -> RE: Do we really need men? (2/5/2008 5:05:44 PM)

NO! .. (gonna come clean here on some of my feelings)  I'm a long term post op transgirl (no I don't have to out myself)  I actually beleive I am what men think FemDom would do to them if it were unchecked. (not true you and I know) but. I'm what they would call "feminized, sissyfied, girly, subbie male"..  I don't really care. But I'm happy WITHOUT male equipment. some say you "lost your sex drive". again I don't care. I'm happy to be female (or female appearing) the rest of my life on earth. 

Having dated men over the years and being with some that "knew and some that did't "know"  has had it's affect on me. in the end they were cruel beyond the need to be so.   Never again will i date men.. (sure I live i society and they flirt with me and I have to get along with them)  but I say.. pump out the sperm and get rid of them! 
me angry? 



SixFootMaster -> RE: Do we really need men? (2/5/2008 7:40:52 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: FemFetishDoll

NO! .. (gonna come clean here on some of my feelings)  I'm a long term post op transgirl (no I don't have to out myself)  I actually beleive I am what men think FemDom would do to them if it were unchecked. (not true you and I know) but. I'm what they would call "feminized, sissyfied, girly, subbie male"..  I don't really care. But I'm happy WITHOUT male equipment. some say you "lost your sex drive". again I don't care. I'm happy to be female (or female appearing) the rest of my life on earth. 

Having dated men over the years and being with some that "knew and some that did't "know"  has had it's affect on me. in the end they were cruel beyond the need to be so.   Never again will i date men.. (sure I live i society and they flirt with me and I have to get along with them)  but I say.. pump out the sperm and get rid of them! 
me angry? 


My brother's first wife really fucked him up emotionally - and it took him years to recover. That's the one that drowned his puppy in the bath. Subsequent women failed to live up to the standard of "mostly rational". I say we save the eggs, rip the wombs out (mass hysterectomy) and lobotomise any that are troublesome.



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