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RE: Talk about science denial - 6/16/2014 6:49:34 PM   
tweakabelle


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quote:

PeonForHer
quote:

It is based on the notion that being gay and being black are somehow to be equated. I am sure you have seen this false equivalency before.


quote:

It's not automatically a false equivalency, Bama. It's open to argument. So, if you feel it to be a false equivalency, please go ahead and explain why you think this.



Nor is it based on an equivalence between "being black and being gay". The parrallel I suggested was between racism and homophobia, both socially generated manifestations of hate with different triggers.

< Message edited by tweakabelle -- 6/16/2014 7:01:10 PM >

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RE: Talk about science denial - 6/16/2014 7:01:10 PM   
thishereboi


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Status: offline 		Yea, once or twice

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RE: Talk about science denial - 6/16/2014 7:04:05 PM   
thishereboi


Posts: 14463
Joined: 6/19/2008
Status: offline 		I wasn't trying to assert anything, just wondering what the connection was.

Oh and I don't hate lefties. Not sure where you got that idea.

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RE: Talk about science denial - 6/16/2014 7:05:49 PM   
tweakabelle


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quote:

ORIGINAL: thishereboi

Yea, once or twice

Heartening to see you're learning to count. Stick at it now and before too long you will make it all the way to ten all on your own-io. Won't that be an accomplishment for you! Do try not to use your fingers though.

< Message edited by tweakabelle -- 6/16/2014 7:07:18 PM >

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RE: Talk about science denial - 6/16/2014 7:09:43 PM   
thishereboi


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quote:

ORIGINAL: tweakabelle

quote:

ORIGINAL: thishereboi

Yea, once or twice

Heartening to see you're learning to count. Stick at it now and before too long you will make it all the way to ten all on your own-io. Won't that be an accomplishment for you! Do try not to use your fingers though.



Nothing to say so you're just out trolling, gotta say you used to be more entertaining than this.

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RE: Talk about science denial - 6/16/2014 10:48:21 PM   
Tkman117


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Status: offline 		You want entertaining? Try watching a con attempt and fail to say something intelligent, that is real entertainment

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RE: Talk about science denial - 6/16/2014 10:59:19 PM   
Kirata


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Joined: 2/11/2006
From: USA
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quote:

ORIGINAL: thishereboi

Nothing to say so you're just out trolling, gotta say you used to be more entertaining than this.

Well I don't know about that. There may be hope. I've been reflecting on some of the implications of her position.

Freedom of choice does not sanction the implicit homophobia of your position, quite the opposite. Your silence on the core issue simply amplifies the stench of homophobia permeating your defence of this evil ideologically-driven 'therapy' ... Freedom of choice and homophobia are mutually exclusive concepts. Your position is incoherent, precisely because you refuse to acknowledge the differential valuation that is the foundation of your position. This is another reason why it is correct and accurate to label your position as homophobic.

Consider a young lady who presents at a therapist's office in great distress for the cause that she experiences her body as ego-dystonic, because as she tells the therapist, she's a "boy". Obviously this is a self-hating female who reeks of the stench of a differential valuation of maleness over femaleness. It's outrageous that we allow gynephobic doctors to pump these children full of puberty-suppression drugs and subject them to sex reassignment surgery, knowing full well the lack of any conclusive evidence of benefit and the greatly elevated risk of suicide and psychiatric morbidity that accompany this evil and ideologically-driven response.

In DomKen's memorable words, how many dead kids is enough? Clearly such a young woman needs to be firmly reassured that it's really really "okay" to be a girl, and helped to get used to it, because if she doesn't like it that's just tough shit.

K.


< Message edited by Kirata -- 6/16/2014 11:31:21 PM >

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RE: Talk about science denial - 6/17/2014 12:22:39 AM   
tweakabelle


Posts: 7522
Joined: 10/16/2007
From: Sydney Australia
Status: offline 		You can invent as many strawmen arguments as you like. All they do is make your position look even sillier than it already is. In this instance here: "Obviously this is a self-hating female who reeks of the stench of a differential valuation of maleness over femaleness" you display a woeful ignorance of the realities of transgender experiences.

You ongoing refusal to state a position on the core issue - that same gender choices and behaviours are every bit as valid as other gender choices - is far more eloquent than any text you have posted, or care to post while maintaining that silence. Until you declare a position on the core issue any thing you post will be just more blah blah blah.

So in your language - put up or shut up.

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RE: Talk about science denial - 6/17/2014 4:04:41 AM   
DomKen


Posts: 19457
Joined: 7/4/2004
From: Chicago, IL
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Kirata


quote:

ORIGINAL: thishereboi

Nothing to say so you're just out trolling, gotta say you used to be more entertaining than this.

Well I don't know about that. There may be hope. I've been reflecting on some of the implications of her position.

Freedom of choice does not sanction the implicit homophobia of your position, quite the opposite. Your silence on the core issue simply amplifies the stench of homophobia permeating your defence of this evil ideologically-driven 'therapy' ... Freedom of choice and homophobia are mutually exclusive concepts. Your position is incoherent, precisely because you refuse to acknowledge the differential valuation that is the foundation of your position. This is another reason why it is correct and accurate to label your position as homophobic.

Consider a young lady who presents at a therapist's office in great distress for the cause that she experiences her body as ego-dystonic, because as she tells the therapist, she's a "boy". Obviously this is a self-hating female who reeks of the stench of a differential valuation of maleness over femaleness. It's outrageous that we allow gynephobic doctors to pump these children full of puberty-suppression drugs and subject them to sex reassignment surgery, knowing full well the lack of any conclusive evidence of benefit and the greatly elevated risk of suicide and psychiatric morbidity that accompany this evil and ideologically-driven response.

In DomKen's memorable words, how many dead kids is enough? Clearly such a young woman needs to be firmly reassured that it's really really "okay" to be a girl, and helped to get used to it, because if she doesn't like it that's just tough shit.

Or perhaps, dumbass, gender reassignment surgery which is done only once the person is an adult cannot undo years of psychological damage done from living with a body perceived to be the "wrong" gender for all those years. Maybe if you thought for a single second...

BTW doctors do not diagnose gender dysphoria from one outcry nor do they start giving puberty suppressing drugs lightly. I know there is a case recently in the news but it is exceptionally rare.

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RE: Talk about science denial - 6/17/2014 5:50:50 AM   
thishereboi


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Tkman117

You want entertaining? Try watching a con attempt and fail to say something intelligent, that is real entertainment



You mean like you just tried to do? But you're not a con so I am not sure if that counted and I have to say it wasn't anymore entertaining than tweaks jab. I have heard better insults at the local jr high.

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RE: Talk about science denial - 6/17/2014 5:53:08 AM   
thishereboi


Posts: 14463
Joined: 6/19/2008
Status: offline 		You make some good points. Should be interesting to see how they words are twisted this time.

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RE: Talk about science denial - 6/17/2014 6:37:13 AM   
DomKen


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quote:

ORIGINAL: thishereboi

You make some good points. Should be interesting to see how they words are twisted this time.

Would you care to even try and elaborate? Beyond being a simple dumbass useless cheerleader for someone who is expressing a viewpoint that would eradicate you and the people you love I'm missing what you're contributing to the thread.

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RE: Talk about science denial - 6/17/2014 6:39:37 AM   
thishereboi


Posts: 14463
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Status: offline 		Nope, I'm good, but thanks for asking

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RE: Talk about science denial - 6/17/2014 1:07:49 PM   
Kirata


Posts: 15477
Joined: 2/11/2006
From: USA
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quote:

ORIGINAL: DomKen
quote:

ORIGINAL: thishereboi

You make some good points. Should be interesting to see how they words are twisted this time.

Would you care to even try and elaborate? Beyond being a simple dumbass useless cheerleader for someone who is expressing a viewpoint that would eradicate you and the people you love I'm missing what you're contributing to the thread.

Well that didn't take long.

One of the mysteries of CM is whether you're just a sick puppy, or a conniving liar. But the sheer ugliness of the stuff that wells up from that sewer you mistake for a mind, and the degree to which it is completely divorced from any contact with reality, has always inclined me to favor the former.

K.


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RE: Talk about science denial - 6/17/2014 1:19:56 PM   
Kirata


Posts: 15477
Joined: 2/11/2006
From: USA
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quote:

ORIGINAL: tweakabelle

Until you declare a position on the core issue any thing you post will be just more blah blah blah.

I've declared my position on what I view as the core issue. You want to insist that it's something else, but that's just your opinion. So what you are engaged in here is nothing more or less than a misrepresentation of fact.

K.

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RE: Talk about science denial - 6/17/2014 1:39:23 PM   
thishereboi


Posts: 14463
Joined: 6/19/2008
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Kirata


quote:

ORIGINAL: DomKen
quote:

ORIGINAL: thishereboi

You make some good points. Should be interesting to see how they words are twisted this time.

Would you care to even try and elaborate? Beyond being a simple dumbass useless cheerleader for someone who is expressing a viewpoint that would eradicate you and the people you love I'm missing what you're contributing to the thread.

Well that didn't take long.

One of the mysteries of CM is whether you're just a sick puppy, or a conniving liar. But the sheer ugliness of the stuff that wells up from that sewer you mistake for a mind, and the degree to which it is completely divorced from any contact with reality, has always inclined me to favor the former.

K.





and then he wonders why I don't take his questions or posts seriously.

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RE: Talk about science denial - 6/17/2014 3:43:48 PM   
DomKen


Posts: 19457
Joined: 7/4/2004
From: Chicago, IL
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Kirata


quote:

ORIGINAL: DomKen
quote:

ORIGINAL: thishereboi

You make some good points. Should be interesting to see how they words are twisted this time.

Would you care to even try and elaborate? Beyond being a simple dumbass useless cheerleader for someone who is expressing a viewpoint that would eradicate you and the people you love I'm missing what you're contributing to the thread.

Well that didn't take long.

One of the mysteries of CM is whether you're just a sick puppy, or a conniving liar. But the sheer ugliness of the stuff that wells up from that sewer you mistake for a mind, and the degree to which it is completely divorced from any contact with reality, has always inclined me to favor the former.

Poor dumbass has his liddle feeling hurt. You could of course not post shit that gives people reason to make such points.

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RE: Talk about science denial - 6/17/2014 3:45:35 PM   
DomKen


Posts: 19457
Joined: 7/4/2004
From: Chicago, IL
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: thishereboi


quote:

ORIGINAL: Kirata


quote:

ORIGINAL: DomKen
quote:

ORIGINAL: thishereboi

You make some good points. Should be interesting to see how they words are twisted this time.

Would you care to even try and elaborate? Beyond being a simple dumbass useless cheerleader for someone who is expressing a viewpoint that would eradicate you and the people you love I'm missing what you're contributing to the thread.

Well that didn't take long.

One of the mysteries of CM is whether you're just a sick puppy, or a conniving liar. But the sheer ugliness of the stuff that wells up from that sewer you mistake for a mind, and the degree to which it is completely divorced from any contact with reality, has always inclined me to favor the former.

K.





and then he wonders why I don't take his questions or posts seriously.

you're a dumbass troll. you never take any post seriously. I'm just trying to get you to emerge from the self hate you wallow in. I worry that someday you'll hurt yourself.

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RE: Talk about science denial - 6/17/2014 3:55:38 PM   
BamaD


Posts: 20687
Joined: 2/27/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Kirata


quote:

ORIGINAL: DomKen
quote:

ORIGINAL: thishereboi

You make some good points. Should be interesting to see how they words are twisted this time.

Would you care to even try and elaborate? Beyond being a simple dumbass useless cheerleader for someone who is expressing a viewpoint that would eradicate you and the people you love I'm missing what you're contributing to the thread.

Well that didn't take long.

One of the mysteries of CM is whether you're just a sick puppy, or a conniving liar. But the sheer ugliness of the stuff that wells up from that sewer you mistake for a mind, and the degree to which it is completely divorced from any contact with reality, has always inclined me to favor the former.

K.



Maybe it is thread drift or a side issue but it looks like some are saying that providing therapy for those who want it is homophobic if not genocidal. perha

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RE: Talk about science denial - 6/17/2014 4:33:08 PM   
PeonForHer


Posts: 19612
Joined: 9/27/2008
Status: offline 		FR

As someone experienced at seeing a therapist, I can speak with just a little authority:

One of the major reasons people end up in the patient's chair of a therapist in the first place is because their freedom of choice has become crushed. They want to exercise it, but it's become blocked. Their own minds have blocked it. The therapist's job is, in part, to help the patient break through those blocks. But the therapist can't always do that by going along with the worldview of the patient. If he were to try, he might well end up coming up against the same blocks as the patient. Very often, perhaps every time, the patient is where he is precisely because he's lost his grasp of what 'freedom of choice' really can mean.

I can very easily imagine a gay man turning up to see a therapist asking how he can 'rid himself of his gayness'. The therapist, in order to do his job properly, would advise on what he knows of the various therapies on offer that claim to achieve that aim. But this is to conform to the patient's own idea of 'freedom of choice'. In theory, possibly fine. But regardless of whether it were even possible to 'eliminate one's gayness', the therapist must go further than that. This is because the patient's idea of freedom of choice may be too small. In the case of a gay man wanting to rid himself of those gay feelings, it pretty emphatically *is* a narrow idea of 'freedom of choice'. He just must learn that there exists the possibility, at least, that all those around him who consider gayness 'abnormal' are wrong and that, in fact, his choosing to accept his gay feelings could be *right*.

This strategy isn't about being idealistic, it's about being realistic. (That's something that righties amongst us favour, correct?) Therapists of all flavours may do all sorts of things with their patients, but what they absolutely mustn't ever do is help their patients tie the knots in their heads even tighter.

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