quote:

ORIGINAL: PeonForHer

FR

As someone experienced at seeing a therapist, I can speak with just a little authority:

One of the major reasons people end up in the patient's chair of a therapist in the first place is because their freedom of choice has become crushed. They want to exercise it, but it's become blocked. Their own minds have blocked it. The therapist's job is, in part, to help the patient break through those blocks. But the therapist can't always do that by going along with the worldview of the patient. If he were to try, he might well end up coming up against the same blocks as the patient. Very often, perhaps every time, the patient is where he is precisely because he's lost his grasp of what 'freedom of choice' really can mean.

I can very easily imagine a gay man turning up to see a therapist asking how he can 'rid himself of his gayness'. The therapist, in order to do his job properly, would advise on what he knows of the various therapies on offer that claim to achieve that aim. But this is to conform to the patient's own idea of 'freedom of choice'. In theory, possibly fine. But regardless of whether it were even possible to 'eliminate one's gayness', the therapist must go further than that. This is because the patient's idea of freedom of choice may be too small. In the case of a gay man wanting to rid himself of those gay feelings, it pretty emphatically *is* a narrow idea of 'freedom of choice'. He just must learn that there exists the possibility, at least, that all those around him who consider gayness 'abnormal' are wrong and that, in fact, his choosing to accept his gay feelings could be *right*.

This strategy isn't about being idealistic, it's about being realistic. (That's something that righties amongst us favour, correct?) Therapists of all flavours may do all sorts of things with their patients, but what they absolutely mustn't ever do is help their patients tie the knots in their heads even tighter.

quote:

ORIGINAL: BitYakin

quote:

ORIGINAL: PeonForHer

FR

As someone experienced at seeing a therapist, I can speak with just a little authority:

One of the major reasons people end up in the patient's chair of a therapist in the first place is because their freedom of choice has become crushed. They want to exercise it, but it's become blocked. Their own minds have blocked it. The therapist's job is, in part, to help the patient break through those blocks. But the therapist can't always do that by going along with the worldview of the patient. If he were to try, he might well end up coming up against the same blocks as the patient. Very often, perhaps every time, the patient is where he is precisely because he's lost his grasp of what 'freedom of choice' really can mean.

I can very easily imagine a gay man turning up to see a therapist asking how he can 'rid himself of his gayness'. The therapist, in order to do his job properly, would advise on what he knows of the various therapies on offer that claim to achieve that aim. But this is to conform to the patient's own idea of 'freedom of choice'. In theory, possibly fine. But regardless of whether it were even possible to 'eliminate one's gayness', the therapist must go further than that. This is because the patient's idea of freedom of choice may be too small. In the case of a gay man wanting to rid himself of those gay feelings, it pretty emphatically *is* a narrow idea of 'freedom of choice'. He just must learn that there exists the possibility, at least, that all those around him who consider gayness 'abnormal' are wrong and that, in fact, his choosing to accept his gay feelings could be *right*.

This strategy isn't about being idealistic, it's about being realistic. (That's something that righties amongst us favour, correct?) Therapists of all flavours may do all sorts of things with their patients, but what they absolutely mustn't ever do is help their patients tie the knots in their heads even tighter.

by this logic, all cosmetic surgeons should advise their clients they look FINE JUST THE WAY THEY ARE!

hair stylist should tell their clients, heck you don't even need a hair brush just let your hair do what's NATURAL

everyone should just let what happens to their bodies naturally happen, bad hair, bad teeth, body odor, that's all just NATURAL and should be EMBRACED

see this is the FLAW in your arguments, you want to say people shouldn't be ALLOWED to seek therapy because YOU THINK they are FINE ALREADY

that's not freedom of choice AT ALL, that YOU DECIDING what's best for THEM

freedom of choice SHOULD be when you are given all the available data and then ALLOWED to make an INFORMED DECISION which ever way YOU WANT TO

there are those who might say, put all that energy into saving my teeth, NAAA just pull them all out, put all that energy into taking care of my hair, NAAA just cut it all off and I'll go bald

there MIGHT be some feel the SAME WAY about being gay, rather do away with it than deal with the hassle of being it, and who are you to tell them they shouldn't be ALLOWED that option?

and it isn't even about weather the therapy works or not, there are PLENTY of people who invest huge sums of time and money in their teeth and lose them ANYHOW, people who invest a lot of effort and time in their hair an end up bald, people who invest in living healthy lives and get incurable diseases anyhow, who are you to tell them since it MIGHT not or even PROBABLY won't work they shouldn't be ALLOWED TO TRY...

now go ahead and PRETEND this makes me HOMOPHOBIC all you want

quote:

ORIGINAL: DomKen

quote:

ORIGINAL: BitYakin

quote:

ORIGINAL: PeonForHer

FR

As someone experienced at seeing a therapist, I can speak with just a little authority:

One of the major reasons people end up in the patient's chair of a therapist in the first place is because their freedom of choice has become crushed. They want to exercise it, but it's become blocked. Their own minds have blocked it. The therapist's job is, in part, to help the patient break through those blocks. But the therapist can't always do that by going along with the worldview of the patient. If he were to try, he might well end up coming up against the same blocks as the patient. Very often, perhaps every time, the patient is where he is precisely because he's lost his grasp of what 'freedom of choice' really can mean.

I can very easily imagine a gay man turning up to see a therapist asking how he can 'rid himself of his gayness'. The therapist, in order to do his job properly, would advise on what he knows of the various therapies on offer that claim to achieve that aim. But this is to conform to the patient's own idea of 'freedom of choice'. In theory, possibly fine. But regardless of whether it were even possible to 'eliminate one's gayness', the therapist must go further than that. This is because the patient's idea of freedom of choice may be too small. In the case of a gay man wanting to rid himself of those gay feelings, it pretty emphatically *is* a narrow idea of 'freedom of choice'. He just must learn that there exists the possibility, at least, that all those around him who consider gayness 'abnormal' are wrong and that, in fact, his choosing to accept his gay feelings could be *right*.

This strategy isn't about being idealistic, it's about being realistic. (That's something that righties amongst us favour, correct?) Therapists of all flavours may do all sorts of things with their patients, but what they absolutely mustn't ever do is help their patients tie the knots in their heads even tighter.

by this logic, all cosmetic surgeons should advise their clients they look FINE JUST THE WAY THEY ARE!

hair stylist should tell their clients, heck you don't even need a hair brush just let your hair do what's NATURAL

everyone should just let what happens to their bodies naturally happen, bad hair, bad teeth, body odor, that's all just NATURAL and should be EMBRACED

see this is the FLAW in your arguments, you want to say people shouldn't be ALLOWED to seek therapy because YOU THINK they are FINE ALREADY

that's not freedom of choice AT ALL, that YOU DECIDING what's best for THEM

freedom of choice SHOULD be when you are given all the available data and then ALLOWED to make an INFORMED DECISION which ever way YOU WANT TO

there are those who might say, put all that energy into saving my teeth, NAAA just pull them all out, put all that energy into taking care of my hair, NAAA just cut it all off and I'll go bald

there MIGHT be some feel the SAME WAY about being gay, rather do away with it than deal with the hassle of being it, and who are you to tell them they shouldn't be ALLOWED that option?

and it isn't even about weather the therapy works or not, there are PLENTY of people who invest huge sums of time and money in their teeth and lose them ANYHOW, people who invest a lot of effort and time in their hair an end up bald, people who invest in living healthy lives and get incurable diseases anyhow, who are you to tell them since it MIGHT not or even PROBABLY won't work they shouldn't be ALLOWED TO TRY...

now go ahead and PRETEND this makes me HOMOPHOBIC all you want

No not homophobic. Incredibly stupid and you're still pointlessly using caps like it improves your bad posts somehow. Please do what ever you did to get moderated again as soon as possible.

quote:

ORIGINAL: PeonForHer

Thank you for your contribution to this debate, BitYakin.

quote:

ORIGINAL: BitYakin
BTW GET OVER THE CAPS THINGS, you just look childish

quote:

ORIGINAL: tweakabelle

quote:

ORIGINAL: BitYakin
BTW GET OVER THE CAPS THINGS, you just look childish

You might benefit by seeking a second opinion on the merits and demerits of this claim, BY.

quote:

ORIGINAL: BitYakin

quote:

ORIGINAL: tweakabelle

quote:

ORIGINAL: BitYakin
BTW GET OVER THE CAPS THINGS, you just look childish

You might benefit by seeking a second opinion on the merits and demerits of this claim, BY.

I don't need a second opinion, you or others don't like that's fine. hit the hide button and you don't ever have to see it again. DK's compulsion to comment on it in EVERY SINGLE REPLY to me is quite childish...

quote:

ORIGINAL: BitYakin
by this logic, all cosmetic surgeons should advise their clients they look FINE JUST THE WAY THEY ARE!

quote:

ORIGINAL: PeonForHer

BitYakin, no offence meant - it's just that your posts are generally so simple that nobody knows what to say to you in reply. Do you think you might try to weigh and balance things a little before commenting? I think it might help.

quote:

ORIGINAL: DomKen

quote:

ORIGINAL: BitYakin

quote:

ORIGINAL: tweakabelle

quote:

ORIGINAL: BitYakin
BTW GET OVER THE CAPS THINGS, you just look childish

You might benefit by seeking a second opinion on the merits and demerits of this claim, BY.

I don't need a second opinion, you or others don't like that's fine. hit the hide button and you don't ever have to see it again. DK's compulsion to comment on it in EVERY SINGLE REPLY to me is quite childish...

Actually I put up with your blithering for months. Now I don't have to. So if it bugs you to be told that your stupid posts are stupid and violate a basic tenet of internet usage then make smarter posts and stop using caps for no purpose.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Moderator7

Hi everyone. Remember our feisty section is less moderation. All are welcome to participate- enjoy the discussion.

quote:

ORIGINAL: GotSteel

quote:

ORIGINAL: BitYakin
by this logic, all cosmetic surgeons should advise their clients they look FINE JUST THE WAY THEY ARE!

Well a good portion of the time frankly they should.

However, you're making a bad analogy. The reason the analogy is unsound is that cosmetic surgery is actually possible. If there was a medical procedure that would actually turn homosexuals into heterosexuals than you're analogy would be valid and a lot of the people against reparative therapy would be in favor of this hypothetical treatment for those who wanted it.

quote:

ORIGINAL: PeonForHer

BitYakin, no offence meant - it's just that your posts are generally so simple that nobody knows what to say to you in reply. Do you think you might try to weigh and balance things a little before commenting? I think it might help.

quote:

ORIGINAL: SadistDave
I'm fascinated though, that his ex-lesbian wife is still loving the cock though, and believes that her life is more fulfilled now than it was before going straight. She remains dedicated to religious based reparative therapy. This is why I believe it should be a CHOICE. It clearly helps some people, even if it isn't in the way they hoped. John Paulk may describe his life as a living hell now, but I find it hard to believe that it took him 21 years of marriage to come to that conclusion. Even so, reparative therapy did help him with that whole not being dead thing.

quote:

ORIGINAL: BitYakin

quote:

ORIGINAL: DomKen

quote:

ORIGINAL: BitYakin

quote:

ORIGINAL: tweakabelle

quote:

ORIGINAL: BitYakin
BTW GET OVER THE CAPS THINGS, you just look childish

You might benefit by seeking a second opinion on the merits and demerits of this claim, BY.

I don't need a second opinion, you or others don't like that's fine. hit the hide button and you don't ever have to see it again. DK's compulsion to comment on it in EVERY SINGLE REPLY to me is quite childish...

Actually I put up with your blithering for months. Now I don't have to. So if it bugs you to be told that your stupid posts are stupid and violate a basic tenet of internet usage then make smarter posts and stop using caps for no purpose.

now you don't have to? really then WHY DO YOU? apparently you feel COMPLELLED TO...

could I get a moderator to clarify something for me please?

In this area am I to understand now we no longer have to respond to the post we can now just simpley ATTACK THE POSTER?

bother me? HAHAHAHA

I actually get a KICK out of watching you get all in a lather over it

and guess what, I'll continue to write as I have for decades, the fact that it BUGS YOU, is just a PLUS