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subrosaDom -> RE: The ignorance of liberals (7/15/2014 8:19:32 PM)
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Skex
quote:
ORIGINAL: subrosaDom
You are conflating classical liberalism (still called liberalism on the Continent) with leftism. I, incidentally, am an atheist. My interests include cosmology, quantum gravity, and molecular genetics. I am also familiar with logical positivism and Popper's falsifiability criterion -- among other things. The problem is that your premises about "conservatives" are ones you are treating as universals when they are anything but; and then you assert that liberals (but actually the people you're referring to are leftists) follow Popper when all they really typical follow is power-lusting and control over others making their epistemology rooted in subjectivism and post-modernist thought were nothing is true unless one wants it to be and everything is true at the moment if it happens to serve one's interior purpose.
No you are confusing temporal definitions of discrete political philosophies with what I consider to be a more primal and universal human motivations. The problem is that those discrete philosophies are artifacts of their historical context. It's the underlying (I honestly suspect it's physiological) core value system that I'm talking about when I speak of liberals and conservatives. Liberals thinkers tend to be forward thinking seekers of the new, while conservatives tend to be motivated by security and safety. The political philosophies they gravitate to play to those primal motivators (there is actually some evidence for it being hardwired in our brain structure).
Sure conservatives today can't relate to their ideological ancestors who supported slavery, just as conservatives a century from now will not relate to the conservatives of today who hate homosexuals. Because in a hundred years homosexuality will be an accepted part of the status quo and will no longer be viewed as a threat to the stability of society.
Honestly I can't even hate conservatives because I honestly do not think you can help what you believe. Nor do I believe that anything I say will shift your views or opinions, few people ever do and those who do don't generally do so because someone else offered an impassioned and well thought out argument. Cognitive science has already demonstrated that most people do not allow facts to get in the way of their core beliefs.
I don't consider myself superior either, I'm the result of my genetic structure and my experiences, I didn't decide to be a bleeding heart liberal because it made me feel good or right. I'm a bleeding heart liberal because of my experiences and how my brain's structure interpreted them. I could tell you that my road to liberalism started when a buddy in the Marine's told me to watch what republican's(conservatives) do rather than to listen to what they say. So when they said they wanted to reduce the size of government and get the deficit under control but then took steps that couldn't do anything other than manifest the opposite result (increased spending while decreasing revenue) I started to shift, when I heard them talk about supporting the troops but did nothing to increase my pay or improve my lot in life my shift changed into a slide.
I could tell you that but honestly I don't think I had any more control over where I ended up than I do the orbit of the moon.
However when I say conservatives are mean petty hateful people, I mean it. I can't think anything else of them when I see them talk about shooting children who trekked across a continent to escape certain death, or to deport them which frankly amounts to the same damned thing. Or when they promote and support torturing people for things they can not control (seriously the idea that homosexuality is a choice is completely ludicrous on it's face Yeah I'm so sure they're choosing to be social outcasts who are going to be beaten and tormented by their peers and society) that anyone who can actually believe that just does not compute. I may not think they can help it but I'm certainly not going to respect those beliefs nor am I going to let them pass without pointing out how awful they are.
You're basically saying you're a complete determinist. So if there's no free will (you needn't be religious to have a basis for free will, in fact I'd argue the absence of a god makes free will more logical), there's no point in debating or anything. We're all going to execute our programs - whether we're MLK Jr. or a KKK member. What difference does it all make? -- as St. Hillary observed.
There's really no difference between that view and Calvinism -- talk about "conservative."
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