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RE: Forced Bi - 9/15/2014 3:57:41 PM

SimplyMichael

Posts: 7229
Joined: 1/7/2007
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quote:

ORIGINAL: littleladybug
Sure, stuff may change as the relationship changes...

And WHY do they change? And in there, my fellow students, lies the answer.

I realize you don't know me, if I heard some poster on CM spouting what I am spouting, i would laugh too. The difference is I know what I have manifested and created and so what appears as bluster to you is simply reality to me.

(in reply to littleladybug)

Post #: 21

RE: Forced Bi - 9/15/2014 3:59:02 PM

Blonderfluff

Posts: 2253
Joined: 10/9/2013
From: Down the Shore
Status: offline

quote:

Honest question: What can a submissive, or anyone really, get out of a relationship that they cannot acquire on their own? There's a lot of talk about not "needing" to be with someone, the merits of being alone and happy over attached and miserable, etc. I'd argue that if the submissive is with someone and gets enjoyment out of making that person happy, being able to do that CAN be a reward. And hell, we were just talking about women who would do anything to please their partners.

I won't answer for everyone. I can only give you my experience, and opinion. What do I get out of it? Everything. But only if that D type has "It" that "magical" Domly Dom energy that merges so perfectly with my /s energy. It's rare. It's exceptional. That kind of dynamic, makes pleasing him, very satisfying. Fulfilling. Because if I'm in that place? It's because HE has shown me he is worthy. It is NOT something I can do for myself, or replicate with anything else. I have had it. I refused to settle for less than that, because I AM happy alone. I would never ever be "attached and miserable".

_____________________________

Don't fear moving forward slowly...fear standing still.

I'm Blonde. Jane Blonde.

(in reply to RockaRolla)

Post #: 22

RE: Forced Bi - 9/15/2014 4:05:21 PM

littleladybug

Posts: 1082
Joined: 5/30/2013
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: SimplyMichael

quote:

ORIGINAL: littleladybug
Sure, stuff may change as the relationship changes...

And WHY do they change? And in there, my fellow students, lies the answer.

Because I change, because the situation changes, because he changes.

And, "fellow students", if the professor suggests that *he* is the be all, end all" of these changes, I would suggest that he's talking out of his ass.

(in reply to SimplyMichael)

Post #: 23

RE: Forced Bi - 9/15/2014 4:14:22 PM

SimplyMichael

Posts: 7229
Joined: 1/7/2007
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So you are claiming that dominants are not capable of changing the outlook of their partners, not changing their perceptions of kink? I glanced at your profile, you are starting your first D/s relationship, knowing how that tends to be, I would agree that your boundaries should be firm and your partner probably lacks the skill and experience someone like myself brings to the table to keep you emotionally safe while pushing those hard limits.

Do you know that a person's early limits often become their hottest kinks? You say you are from Washington, find the group on Fet for what was the Wetspot but is now the Seattle Center for Sex positive culture, I think that it what it is called and ask that very question...

The Professor has thus spoken...LOL!

(in reply to littleladybug)

Post #: 24

RE: Forced Bi - 9/15/2014 4:18:09 PM

Blonderfluff

Posts: 2253
Joined: 10/9/2013
From: Down the Shore
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Or because I change, because he comes to know me SO well, that he knows which limits CAN be pushed, making me grow? I have limits. Forced pussy-eating would be one of them. Soooo not for me. But I can honesty say I have been in a relationship where that would have happened, if he wanted it too. He EARNED that by showing me, time and time and time again, that he paid attention. To EVERYTHING. I trusted him. Completely, with no reservations.

_____________________________

Don't fear moving forward slowly...fear standing still.

I'm Blonde. Jane Blonde.

(in reply to littleladybug)

Post #: 25

RE: Forced Bi - 9/15/2014 4:23:37 PM

SimplyMichael

Posts: 7229
Joined: 1/7/2007
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Blonderfluff

Or because I change, because he comes to know me SO well, that he knows which limits CAN be pushed, making me grow? I have limits. Forced pussy-eating would be one of them. Soooo not for me. But I can honesty say I have been in a relationship where that would have happened, if he wanted it too. He EARNED that by showing me, time and time and time again, that he paid attention. To EVERYTHING. I trusted him. Completely, with no reservations.

Exactly! Most times when I hear about someone pushing limits, its some clueless clod who thinks "do it" is somehow inspirational. Love, care, attention, focus, empowerment, nurturing, those things can create the environment where " I want you to do X" is heard less as a command and more as an opportunity.

(in reply to Blonderfluff)

Post #: 26

RE: Forced Bi - 9/15/2014 4:29:11 PM

littleladybug

Posts: 1082
Joined: 5/30/2013
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: SimplyMichael

So you are claiming that dominants are not capable of changing the outlook of their partners, not changing their perceptions of kink? I glanced at your profile, you are starting your first D/s relationship, knowing how that tends to be, I would agree that your boundaries should be firm and your partner probably lacks the skill and experience someone like myself brings to the table to keep you emotionally safe while pushing those hard limits.

Do you know that a person's early limits often become their hottest kinks? You say you are from Washington, find the group on Fet for what was the Wetspot but is now the Seattle Center for Sex positive culture, I think that it what it is called and ask that very question...

The Professor has thus spoken...LOL!

Actually, I'm FAR from entering into my first D/s relationship. Apologies if saying "This is not my first relationship with a Dominant" was somehow unclear...I am currently working on the submissive/slave distinction.

And, my "partner"? I'm not going to enter into his pissing contest with you....but suffice it to say, he does have experience.

Thanks for the lesson, teach.

(in reply to SimplyMichael)

Post #: 27

RE: Forced Bi - 9/15/2014 4:29:55 PM

CreativeDominant

Posts: 11032
Joined: 3/11/2006
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: littleladybug

quote:

ORIGINAL: SimplyMichael

Limits are there as signposts of places to tread carefully.

Yup, no need at all to quote further than this.

Let's, for shits and giggles, go with one of my limits...which is legal but gross. Scat. There's no "treading carefully" around this. It's a NO GO. My limits are a signpost much like a electric fence is. You're still going to get fried...no matter how carefully you "tread around it". (and, actually, it's kind of funny seeing you try to get around it...ZAAAPPPP)

What this shows me is a lack of respect for the boundaries that your partner gives. Sure, stuff may change as the relationship changes...but to not respect limits as the "no go" zone? I would NEVER trust someone who thought that my limits were fungible.

But...even hard limits can change...

Several years ago, I was with a submissive for whom water sports were a hard limit. "Gross, nasty, like a dog marking his territory". Fine with me...there are some things I must have but many things which I am patient enough to wait for and quite a few that do not...in day to day existence with the person I am involved with...matter all that much. But...piqued curiosity can be dealt with rightly or wrongly.

Long story short...about a year later, we were at her place, in the shower. I told her I needed to step out of the shower. She grabbed my cock, aimed it at her pussy and said quietly, " No, you don't."
When I said to her later...after scrubbing her all nice and clean...No longer a hard limit?", her reply was "if something happens to us, yes. But for us...no.". That didn't make me greater than any guy out there but made us greater than any guy out there.

Now then...some look at this (forced bi) in a whole different eay. Morality and seems to be a big part. Fear for her mental health and her sense of self? I can respect all of that and I'd never leave a girl for that reason. But if her only reason was "I don't like it", then I tend to look at it the way Michael and the blonde do.

< Message edited by CreativeDominant -- 9/15/2014 4:41:46 PM >

(in reply to littleladybug)

Post #: 28

RE: Forced Bi - 9/15/2014 4:41:53 PM

SimplyMichael

Posts: 7229
Joined: 1/7/2007
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: littleladybug

quote:

ORIGINAL: SimplyMichael

So you are claiming that dominants are not capable of changing the outlook of their partners, not changing their perceptions of kink? I glanced at your profile, you are starting your first D/s relationship, knowing how that tends to be, I would agree that your boundaries should be firm and your partner probably lacks the skill and experience someone like myself brings to the table to keep you emotionally safe while pushing those hard limits.

Do you know that a person's early limits often become their hottest kinks? You say you are from Washington, find the group on Fet for what was the Wetspot but is now the Seattle Center for Sex positive culture, I think that it what it is called and ask that very question...

The Professor has thus spoken...LOL!

Actually, I'm FAR from entering into my first D/s relationship. Apologies if saying "This is not my first relationship with a Dominant" was somehow unclear...I am currently working on the submissive/slave distinction.

And, my "partner"? I'm not going to enter into his pissing contest with you....but suffice it to say, he does have experience.

Thanks for the lesson, teach.

Forgive me for misreading that, based on your answers I clearly projected that it was your first one. So there is no "pissing contest as if he can't inspire you to move or expand your limits, it is no loss to me!

(in reply to littleladybug)

Post #: 29

RE: Forced Bi - 9/15/2014 4:44:39 PM

SimplyMichael

Posts: 7229
Joined: 1/7/2007
Status: offline

The number of women for whom anal, ass to mouth, golden showers and other common "hard limits" but now find some of that as an important part of their sexual needs is legion.

(in reply to CreativeDominant)

Post #: 30

RE: Forced Bi - 9/15/2014 5:36:35 PM

littleladybug

Posts: 1082
Joined: 5/30/2013
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: SimplyMichael

So there is no "pissing contest as if he can't inspire you to move or expand your limits, it is no loss to me!

I didn't realize that my limits were a line that would be a "contest" to cross.

If that's the way that you choose to proceed, have at it.

However, my limits are...my limits. Which means that you *ha ha* can't come in and change them merely because you say you're a Dom...they may change, but it's not because a guy comes in and says "I should".

(in reply to SimplyMichael)

Post #: 31

RE: Forced Bi - 9/15/2014 5:38:04 PM

littleladybug

Posts: 1082
Joined: 5/30/2013
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: SimplyMichael

The number of women for whom anal, ass to mouth, golden showers and other common "hard limits" but now find some of that as an important part of their sexual needs is legion.

OMG...

And please tell me that you have convinced them of that...

(in reply to SimplyMichael)

Post #: 32

RE: Forced Bi - 9/15/2014 5:42:42 PM

SimplyMichael

Posts: 7229
Joined: 1/7/2007
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: littleladybug

Which means that you *ha ha* can't come in and change them merely because you say you're a Dom...they may change, but it's not because a guy comes in and says "I should".

I am glad you are paying attention! No, limits are not changed by a guy saying "you should" or "merely because you say you are a Dom" but for the reasons I and others have stated. I am not saying all can or even should be changed, I am simply saying that it can and has been done.

The thread went this way when someone said you could not get a straight woman to agree to go down on another woman unless she already wanted to. I say otherwise.

(in reply to littleladybug)

Post #: 33

RE: Forced Bi - 9/15/2014 5:57:23 PM

InHisHeart

Posts: 630
Joined: 3/22/2014
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: RockaRolla

Honest question: What can a submissive, or anyone really, get out of a relationship that they cannot acquire on their own? There's a lot of talk about not "needing" to be with someone, the merits of being alone and happy over attached and miserable, etc. I'd argue that if the submissive is with someone and gets enjoyment out of making that person happy, being able to do that CAN be a reward. And hell, we were just talking about women who would do anything to please their partners.

Speaking only for myself, the love I feel for him and he for me, the companionship, friendship, emotional bond and connection we have with each other which is different than having companionship, friendship, emotional bond I have with family and close friends.

Someone I'm in a relationship with, I feel completely comfortable with telling him all my secrets and I trust he won't belittle me, won't look down at me and he'll listen to me with an open mind. If I don't feel I can open up completely to someone then he's not someone I would continue in a relationship with. I love my family, I love my close friends and they love me but they don't know everything there is to know about me, they don't know all my secrets, they don't know everything that's in my past and I'm not comfortable with them knowing everything about me. I pick and choose what I tell family/friends and who I tell what to, with a partner, I'm an open book and there's nothing I'll keep hidden from him.

For me, being a submissive, getting enjoyment out of making that person happy is not enough for me to be in a relationship with someone. I want that, I have the desire to please a partner but I also need the love, the trust, the bond with him and him feel the same towards me. In a relationship, I want it all, a whole relationship and anything less is just not a fulfilling relationship for me. I don't want bits and pieces of a relationship, it's the whole thing or it's nothing.

If being a submissive was all I needed within a relationship then I could be with any Dom that I got along with but that's not what I want or who I am. Without the emotional connection, without love for each other, without the bond, it would feel empty to me very quickly and I would be miserable.

Those are things I get in a relationship, that I don't get on my own and they add to my happiness, my contentment but I don't need those things in order to be happy and content on my own.

_____________________________

I don't have a bucket list but my fucket list is a mile long.

I would rather have a mind opened by wonder than one closed by belief.

(in reply to RockaRolla)

Post #: 34

RE: Forced Bi - 9/15/2014 5:59:59 PM

littleladybug

Posts: 1082
Joined: 5/30/2013
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: SimplyMichael

I am glad you are paying attention! No, limits are not changed by a guy saying "you should" or "merely because you say you are a Dom" but for the reasons I and others have stated. I am not saying all can or even should be changed, I am simply saying that it can and has been done.

And, I'm saying that it was done due to a predisposition, not due to your fabulousness as a Dom.

(in reply to SimplyMichael)

Post #: 35

RE: Forced Bi - 9/15/2014 6:11:30 PM

SimplyMichael

Posts: 7229
Joined: 1/7/2007
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: littleladybug

quote:

ORIGINAL: SimplyMichael

I am glad you are paying attention! No, limits are not changed by a guy saying "you should" or "merely because you say you are a Dom" but for the reasons I and others have stated. I am not saying all can or even should be changed, I am simply saying that it can and has been done.

And, I'm saying that it was done due to a predisposition, not due to your fabulousness as a Dom.

i know what you are saying, its just that the arguments you use keep proving my point, you just can't see it. That is of course, unless you believe in predestination and no force, human or otherwise can change someone's destiny or actions.

(in reply to littleladybug)

Post #: 36

RE: Forced Bi - 9/15/2014 6:30:40 PM

PandoraFoxxx

Posts: 182
Joined: 1/3/2011
From: San Mateo, CA
Status: offline

If I may interject here:
I think the "fabulousness" of a partner will aid in the opening up and willingness to taste new horizons more than the "mediocrity" of another partner. Predisposition or not, the bottom line is in order to get someone to push themselves out of a comfort zone for you; you yourself must be somewhat remarkable in their eyes. You might be completely ordinary, or seen as a pompous ass to everyone else, but that person thinks you're the bees knees, and thus will do things for you simply because you like it. For me, it would be sitting through an entire football game.
Now, that being said, I also believe through my own personal discoveries that predispositions have very little to do with anything when one is truly experimenting with uncharted territory (which is why most people list those things as limits in the first place). If anything, pushing past the limits are the exact opposite of being predisposed. Goes with that age old lie that being afraid of/loathing something means that you secretly want it. What a load of rubbish that is

(in reply to SimplyMichael)

Post #: 37

RE: Forced Bi - 9/15/2014 8:28:22 PM

Spiritedsub2

Posts: 3316
Joined: 7/18/2012
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: SimplyMichael

quote:

ORIGINAL: littleladybug

Which means that you *ha ha* can't come in and change them merely because you say you're a Dom...they may change, but it's not because a guy comes in and says "I should".

I am glad you are paying attention! No, limits are not changed by a guy saying "you should" or "merely because you say you are a Dom" but for the reasons I and others have stated. I am not saying all can or even should be changed, I am simply saying that it can and has been done.

The thread went this way when someone said you could not get a straight woman to agree to go down on another woman unless she already wanted to. I say otherwise.

I agree with SimplyMichael. I have zero interest in bi, but if I were with someone I fucking adored, and he wanted me to do that, I probably would. Not because I have a predisposition for bi; if I had that predisposition, I'd be acting on it already, not waiting for an excuse.

_____________________________

Don’t grieve. Anything you lose comes round in another form.
~ Rumi

Laughing Dolphin

(in reply to SimplyMichael)

Post #: 38

RE: Forced Bi - 9/15/2014 9:01:22 PM

GoddessManko

Posts: 2257
Joined: 3/6/2013
From: Dante's Inferno
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Spiritedsub2

I agree with SimplyMichael. I have zero interest in bi, but if I were with someone I fucking adored, and he wanted me to do that, I probably would. Not because I have a predisposition for bi; if I had that predisposition, I'd be acting on it already, not waiting for an excuse.

I disagree slightly as I have dealt with subs that were fine with being topped by a Mistress, but not a Master. Some are eager for it, yes. And need an excuse, yes. I even got an email from a guy named "forcedbislave(insertnumbershere)". Go figure.
But some subs, if they like you enough over time and you paint such a scenario (albeit occurs or not), if you are there, directing the scene etc and clear and present that they are doing this for your sake then they will consider it. Most subs are curious/flexible, they are willing to let you gently push the envelope. Either they love it or decide for certain the kink is not for them.

< Message edited by GoddessManko -- 9/15/2014 9:03:34 PM >

_____________________________

Happy consent is the name of the game. You are my perfect Mistress. - my collared.

http://submissivemale.blogspot.com/

The Bird of Hermes is my name, eating my wings to make me tame.

(in reply to Spiritedsub2)

Post #: 39

RE: Forced Bi - 9/15/2014 9:12:02 PM

DesFIP

Posts: 25191
Joined: 11/25/2007
From: Apple County NY
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: SimplyMichael

Going down on a woman is not going to kill anyone, not going to "make them gay" and unlikely to result in emotional harm.

If this was true then the corollary is that having unwanted heterosexual sex would be unlikely to result in emotional harm also. Ask any rape victim how true that is.

Being coerced or manipulated to have unwanted sex is probably one of the highest causes of emotional harm imaginable. Just because it's woman on woman doesn't magically mean she'll be fine.

If she is fine with it, then she's bicurious at the least and simply didn't tell you how she felt.

_____________________________

Slave to laundry

Cynical and proud of it!

(in reply to SimplyMichael)

Post #: 40

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