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RE: The current middle eastern crisis is Israels fault... - 7/27/2014 5:50:51 AM

PeonForHer

Posts: 19612
Joined: 9/27/2008
Status: offline

I've been watching Jeremy Bowen's ME reports for years. The times I've sat there shouting at the screen, 'Get the fuck away from there, man!'

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(in reply to tweakabelle)

Post #: 281

RE: The current middle eastern crisis is Israels fault... - 7/27/2014 7:01:01 AM

DomKen

Posts: 19457
Joined: 7/4/2004
From: Chicago, IL
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: tweakabelle

quote:

ORIGINAL: Politesub53

http://www.unrwa.org/newsroom/press-releases/israel-channel-two-retracts-false-allegations-against-unrwa

So another piece of Israeli propaganda debunked. Every time the pro-Israelis here make another of their extravagant self-promoting claims - be it about human shields or the Geneva Conventions or whatever - someone advances hard evidence to debunk the claim. Is there a single claim that has withstood critical scrutiny? I can't think of one.

I can.
http://www.thewire.com/global/2014/07/hamas-rockets-found-in-second-united-nations-school/374874/
Try believing your lying eyes
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j7wiu6V-J98

(in reply to tweakabelle)

Post #: 282

RE: The current middle eastern crisis is Israels fault... - 7/27/2014 8:03:49 AM

tweakabelle

Posts: 7522
Joined: 10/16/2007
From: Sydney Australia
Status: offline

Two days ago, the Al Mezan Centre for Human Rights reports the following attacks on Gaza's health systems and hospitals by the Israeli Occupation Force (IOF):

"[..] According to Al Mezan's monitoring, the IOF has killed five medics and wounded 16 since the start of Operation Protective Edge on 7 July 2014. The IOF also destroyed 20 ambulances during the same period. IOF attacked hospitals and medical crews dozens of times; rendering at least four of them non-operative and destroying one completely. Attacks on the Balsam hospital and the Beit Hanoun hospital; both located in the town of Beit Hanoun in the north of the Gaza Strip, were unable to carry out any functions following frequent IOF attacks on them. The same applies to the Algerian hospital in the east of Khan Younis, south of the Gaza Strip. The Al Wafa hospital was totally destroyed after the IOF bombarded it over a dozen times.

The Al Aqsa hospital, which is the main public hospital serving the population of the Middle Gaza district, was directly bombed by the IOF, killing and injuring patients, visitors as well as some of its personnel. Last night, the Kamal Odwan hospital, which is the main public hospital in the North Gaza district, was targeted directly by the IOF, causing damages to the maternity department and forcing the evacuation of the patients and personnel. One of the ambulance centers of the Palestinian Red Crescent Society in northern Gaza area, which is an ICRC affiliate, was rendered non-functional following two IOF attacks in its vicinity, which injured four medics."
http://reliefweb.int/report/occupied-palestinian-territory/despite-humanitarian-truce-iof-target-medical-personnel-and

The linked article goes on to detail these, and other attacks on health facilities, resources and ambulances, giving the names of the dead and injured, the location and time of the attacks etc.

There are numerous other accounts of ambulances attacked and destroyed, often killing or injuring the ambulance drivers and medics. Here's just two of those reports:

http://www.middleeasteye.net/news/health-facilities-hit-israels-gaza-attacks-death-toll-rises-over-640-129158985

http://www.theguardian.com/world/2014/jul/20/israeli-attack-suburb-gaza-city-palestinians-shujaiiya

Attacks of this number, range, severity and consistency against health facilities, hospitals and ambulances suggest that they are being systematically targeted by the IDF.

< Message edited by tweakabelle -- 7/27/2014 8:05:45 AM >

_____________________________

(in reply to PeonForHer)

Post #: 283

RE: The current middle eastern crisis is Israels fault... - 7/27/2014 9:02:27 AM

thompsonx

Posts: 23322
Joined: 10/1/2006
Status: offline

ORIGINAL: BamaD

defending yourself you cannot win, only match what is thrown at you? Defies logic.

So a woman slaps you for being rude to her and you shoot her in the head. Your moronic opinios defy logic, common sense and human decency.

(in reply to BamaD)

Post #: 284

RE: The current middle eastern crisis is Israels fault... - 7/27/2014 9:12:23 AM

DomKen

Posts: 19457
Joined: 7/4/2004
From: Chicago, IL
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: tweakabelle

So after being proven to be wrong you simply pivot to another claim. No admission or retraction you just keep attacking. And you wonder why people think you are pro Hamas?

(in reply to tweakabelle)

Post #: 285

RE: The current middle eastern crisis is Israels fault... - 7/27/2014 9:56:32 AM

freedomdwarf1

Posts: 6845
Joined: 10/23/2012
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: DomKen

quote:

ORIGINAL: tweakabelle

So after being proven to be wrong you simply pivot to another claim. No admission or retraction you just keep attacking. And you wonder why people think you are pro Hamas?

And you think your links and opinions don't require scrutiny??
Bama is just as bad.

Gaza is a tiny strip of land barely 25 miles long and 11 miles wide.
It has an estimated 1.8 million people living there and is the most densely populated area in the world.
There's nowhere the Palestinians can live without being on top of one another.
There is also nowhere for Hamas to operate away from civilians either.

And, just on the other side of the coin, Israel has all it's commanders and military sites embedded within dense populations of their citizens too.
So how can Israel be right and Hamas be wrong??
Both of the military encampments are within the civilian population.

They are both as bad as each other.
Hamas out of necessity - because there literally isn't anywhere else.
Israel by choice - because they could site their military away from the population, but they don't.
So both are breaking the rules one way or another.

But... seeing as one side (Israel) chooses to break the rules AND retaliates on a (currently) 25-to-1 killing ratio (almost 50-to-1 if you count just the civilians), who would you normally think would the greater of the two evils??
Personally, seeing as most of the propaganda machine of Israel has been debunked by unbiased people reporting from the ground, I'd say the Israeli's are by far the worst culprits and inflicting the most civilian damage.

Unfortunately, most Americans tend to believe the Israeli PR and crap.
I also suspect they want to believe it because the US would lose face if it were proven beyond doubt that they were unilaterally backing a country that is breaking the GC and the rules of war to the extent that the UN are seriously saying that Israel are guilty of some serious war crimes.
Hamas, on the other hand, have been proven time and time again not to be such heinous criminals as Israel paint them to be.
Those of us outside the US can see the disparity; those within seem to be blinded by the Israeli PR.

_____________________________

“If liberty means anything at all, it means the right to tell people what they do not want to hear.”

George Orwell, 1903-1950

(in reply to DomKen)

Post #: 286

RE: The current middle eastern crisis is Israels fault... - 7/27/2014 11:12:43 AM

BamaD

Posts: 20687
Joined: 2/27/2005
Status: offline

Bama is just as bad.

Translation I kick your ass.

< Message edited by BamaD -- 7/27/2014 11:13:26 AM >

_____________________________

Government ranges from a necessary evil to an intolerable one. Thomas Paine

People don't believe they can defend themselves because they have guns, they have guns because they believe they can defend themselves.

(in reply to freedomdwarf1)

Post #: 287

RE: The current middle eastern crisis is Israels fault... - 7/27/2014 11:22:10 AM

BamaD

Posts: 20687
Joined: 2/27/2005
Status: offline

FR
BBC headline

Israel breaks ceasefire amid rocket attacks from Gaza

Hamas started firing rockets in to Israel and the Israelis shooting down the rockets meant they broke the ceasefire?
Yep BBC is real balanced.

_____________________________

Government ranges from a necessary evil to an intolerable one. Thomas Paine

People don't believe they can defend themselves because they have guns, they have guns because they believe they can defend themselves.

(in reply to BamaD)

Post #: 288

RE: The current middle eastern crisis is Israels fault... - 7/27/2014 11:44:30 AM

freedomdwarf1

Posts: 6845
Joined: 10/23/2012
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: BamaD

Bama is just as bad.

Translation I kick your ass.

Nope. Wrong translation

quote:

ORIGINAL: BamaD

FR
BBC headline

Israel breaks ceasefire amid rocket attacks from Gaza

Hamas started firing rockets in to Israel and the Israelis shooting down the rockets meant they broke the ceasefire?
Yep BBC is real balanced.

They reported that Hamas broke the ceasefire and started sending rockets again.
Or don't you actually listen to what they say??

And why did Hamas do that?
Because they did not agree to extending the ceasefire unless Israel lifted the blockade and moved military forces OUT of Gaza territory.
Israel ignored both conditions and moved troops and tanks further into Gaza.
So... Israel stuck fingers up at Hamas and further antagonized them.
Ergo: as forecast, the rockets were employed.

_____________________________

“If liberty means anything at all, it means the right to tell people what they do not want to hear.”

George Orwell, 1903-1950

(in reply to BamaD)

Post #: 289

RE: The current middle eastern crisis is Israels fault... - 7/27/2014 11:51:46 AM

BamaD

Posts: 20687
Joined: 2/27/2005
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: freedomdwarf1

quote:

ORIGINAL: BamaD

Bama is just as bad.

Translation I kick your ass.

Nope. Wrong translation

quote:

ORIGINAL: BamaD

FR
BBC headline

Israel breaks ceasefire amid rocket attacks from Gaza

Hamas started firing rockets in to Israel and the Israelis shooting down the rockets meant they broke the ceasefire?
Yep BBC is real balanced.

They reported that Hamas broke the ceasefire and started sending rockets again.
Or don't you actually listen to what they say??

And why did Hamas do that?
Because they did not agree to extending the ceasefire unless Israel lifted the blockade and moved military forces OUT of Gaza territory.
Israel ignored both conditions and moved troops and tanks further into Gaza.
So... Israel stuck fingers up at Hamas and further antagonized them.
Ergo: as forecast, the rockets were employed.

While the facts said Hamas broke the cease fire the headline said otherwise, only an antisemitic would deny that.

_____________________________

Government ranges from a necessary evil to an intolerable one. Thomas Paine

People don't believe they can defend themselves because they have guns, they have guns because they believe they can defend themselves.

(in reply to freedomdwarf1)

Post #: 290

RE: The current middle eastern crisis is Israels fault... - 7/27/2014 12:02:10 PM

tweakabelle

Posts: 7522
Joined: 10/16/2007
From: Sydney Australia
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: DomKen

quote:

ORIGINAL: tweakabelle

So after being proven to be wrong you simply pivot to another claim. No admission or retraction you just keep attacking. And you wonder why people think you are pro Hamas?

You are deluding yourself if you think you have proved anything on this thread, other than your fanatical slavish adherence to Zionism . All of your idiotic claims have been found wanting by a series of posters.

I note your cynical non-response to Israel attacking hospitals and health facilities, which breaks all ethical and legal standards. You don't care that the terrorist thugs of the IDF that you so admire attack hospitals the sick the wounded and those who care for them. They're just Palestinians and therefore by Zionist standards don't count as human beings.

The hypocrisy of Zionists and their ever dwindling bunch of self deluding apologists is sickening.

_____________________________

(in reply to DomKen)

Post #: 291

RE: The current middle eastern crisis is Israels fault... - 7/27/2014 12:11:22 PM

DomKen

Posts: 19457
Joined: 7/4/2004
From: Chicago, IL
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: freedomdwarf1

quote:

ORIGINAL: DomKen

quote:

ORIGINAL: tweakabelle

So after being proven to be wrong you simply pivot to another claim. No admission or retraction you just keep attacking. And you wonder why people think you are pro Hamas?

And you think your links and opinions don't require scrutiny??
Bama is just as bad.

Gaza is a tiny strip of land barely 25 miles long and 11 miles wide.
It has an estimated 1.8 million people living there and is the most densely populated area in the world.
There's nowhere the Palestinians can live without being on top of one another.
There is also nowhere for Hamas to operate away from civilians either.

I already proved that to be untrue. Why do you keep making that claim?

quote:

And, just on the other side of the coin, Israel has all it's commanders and military sites embedded within dense populations of their citizens too.

another lie. Israel has quite clearly marker and delineated military bases as required by international law.

quote:

So how can Israel be right and Hamas be wrong??
Both of the military encampments are within the civilian population.

because you are full of shit. point to one Hamas military base. Just one.

(in reply to freedomdwarf1)

Post #: 292

RE: The current middle eastern crisis is Israels fault... - 7/27/2014 12:16:20 PM

freedomdwarf1

Posts: 6845
Joined: 10/23/2012
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: BamaD
While the facts said Hamas broke the cease fire the headline said otherwise, only an antisemitic would deny that.

The headline was quite correct - Israel broke their OWN ceasefire!!
Because Hamas did not agree to it in the first place.
So the 'ceasefire' beyond the original 12 hours was completely one-sided.

I'm not antisemitic. But I can read English and understand what was being reported.
The headline was correct. The story was also correct.
It was also corroborated by Reuters and AFP news reports.

_____________________________

“If liberty means anything at all, it means the right to tell people what they do not want to hear.”

George Orwell, 1903-1950

(in reply to BamaD)

Post #: 293

RE: The current middle eastern crisis is Israels fault... - 7/27/2014 12:16:25 PM

DomKen

Posts: 19457
Joined: 7/4/2004
From: Chicago, IL
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: tweakabelle

quote:

ORIGINAL: DomKen

quote:

ORIGINAL: tweakabelle

So after being proven to be wrong you simply pivot to another claim. No admission or retraction you just keep attacking. And you wonder why people think you are pro Hamas?

You are deluding yourself if you think you have proved anything on this thread, other than your fanatical slavish adherence to Zionism . All of your idiotic claims have been found wanting by a series of posters.

I note your cynical non-response to Israel attacking hospitals and health facilities, which breaks all ethical and legal standards. You don't care that the terrorist thugs of the IDF that you so admire attack hospitals the sick the wounded and those who care for them. They're just Palestinians and therefore by Zionist standards don't count as human beings.

The hypocrisy of Zionists and their ever dwindling bunch of self deluding apologists is sickening.

You made claims and I proved them wrong and instead of acknowledging that fact you simply pivoted to more attacks. You are the worst sort of Hamas apologist.

As has been pointed out Hamas store weapons in hospitals so Israel has little choice but to attack hospitals. If Hamas didn't want their people killed they would not store weapons there and they wouldn't launch attacks from inside civilian areas. They are the ones that violate the GC every time they fire a rocket. Israel has the absolute right to retaliate once the rocket is fired.

(in reply to tweakabelle)

Post #: 294

RE: The current middle eastern crisis is Israels fault... - 7/27/2014 12:25:50 PM

freedomdwarf1

Posts: 6845
Joined: 10/23/2012
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: DomKen

quote:

ORIGINAL: freedomdwarf1

quote:

ORIGINAL: DomKen

quote:

ORIGINAL: tweakabelle

So after being proven to be wrong you simply pivot to another claim. No admission or retraction you just keep attacking. And you wonder why people think you are pro Hamas?

And you think your links and opinions don't require scrutiny??
Bama is just as bad.

Gaza is a tiny strip of land barely 25 miles long and 11 miles wide.
It has an estimated 1.8 million people living there and is the most densely populated area in the world.
There's nowhere the Palestinians can live without being on top of one another.
There is also nowhere for Hamas to operate away from civilians either.

I already proved that to be untrue. Why do you keep making that claim?

Did you actually READ what I posted??
Obviously not.

Are you telling me Gaza isn't that small?
Or that it doesn't have 1.8 million civillian inhabitants?
Or that it isn't the most densely populated piece of mud on this planet?
Or that it has the luxury of placing launch sites out in open fields like Israel can (but don't)?

I just quoted some facts - not Israeli PR.

quote:

ORIGINAL: DomKen

quote:

And, just on the other side of the coin, Israel has all it's commanders and military sites embedded within dense populations of their citizens too.
another lie. Israel has quite clearly marker and delineated military bases as required by international law.

quote:

So how can Israel be right and Hamas be wrong??
Both of the military encampments are within the civilian population.

because you are full of shit. point to one Hamas military base. Just one.

They don't have a military base because they are not a unified army. Duh!!
You can be soooo obtuse sometimes Ken.
If you wanna put it in one way - Gaza is effectively their military base.

You carry on believing the Israeli PR cuz most of the world outside of the US can see where Israel is the perpetrator of most of the illegal acts.

_____________________________

“If liberty means anything at all, it means the right to tell people what they do not want to hear.”

George Orwell, 1903-1950

(in reply to DomKen)

Post #: 295

RE: The current middle eastern crisis is Israels fault... - 7/27/2014 12:29:01 PM

BamaD

Posts: 20687
Joined: 2/27/2005
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: freedomdwarf1

quote:

ORIGINAL: DomKen

quote:

ORIGINAL: freedomdwarf1

quote:

ORIGINAL: DomKen

quote:

ORIGINAL: tweakabelle

So after being proven to be wrong you simply pivot to another claim. No admission or retraction you just keep attacking. And you wonder why people think you are pro Hamas?

And you think your links and opinions don't require scrutiny??
Bama is just as bad.

Gaza is a tiny strip of land barely 25 miles long and 11 miles wide.
It has an estimated 1.8 million people living there and is the most densely populated area in the world.
There's nowhere the Palestinians can live without being on top of one another.
There is also nowhere for Hamas to operate away from civilians either.

I already proved that to be untrue. Why do you keep making that claim?

Did you actually READ what I posted??
Obviously not.

Are you telling me Gaza isn't that small?
Or that it doesn't have 1.8 million civillian inhabitants?
Or that it isn't the most densely populated piece of mud on this planet?
Or that it has the luxury of placing launch sites out in open fields like Israel can (but don't)?

I just quoted some facts - not Israeli PR.

quote:

ORIGINAL: DomKen

quote:

And, just on the other side of the coin, Israel has all it's commanders and military sites embedded within dense populations of their citizens too.
another lie. Israel has quite clearly marker and delineated military bases as required by international law.

quote:

So how can Israel be right and Hamas be wrong??
Both of the military encampments are within the civilian population.

because you are full of shit. point to one Hamas military base. Just one.

They don't have a military base because they are not a unified army. Duh!!
You can be soooo obtuse sometimes Ken.
If you wanna put it in one way - Gaza is effectively their military base.

You carry on believing the Israeli PR cuz most of the world outside of the US can see where Israel is the perpetrator of most of the illegal acts.

You keep arguing on one hand that they aren't a army, then you turn around and argue that they have all the protections of one. Exactly the kind of logic I have come to expect from you.

_____________________________

Government ranges from a necessary evil to an intolerable one. Thomas Paine

People don't believe they can defend themselves because they have guns, they have guns because they believe they can defend themselves.

(in reply to freedomdwarf1)

Post #: 296

RE: The current middle eastern crisis is Israels fault... - 7/27/2014 12:32:49 PM

freedomdwarf1

Posts: 6845
Joined: 10/23/2012
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: DomKen
As has been pointed out Hamas store weapons in hospitals so Israel has little choice but to attack hospitals. If Hamas didn't want their people killed they would not store weapons there and they wouldn't launch attacks from inside civilian areas. They are the ones that violate the GC every time they fire a rocket. Israel has the absolute right to retaliate once the rocket is fired.

Where can Hamas store their weapons Ken??
There just isn't anywhere outside of populated areas because it's sooo densely populated.

I agree, Hamas violate the GC every time they fire a rocket.
But there again, so do Israel by not keeping retaliation in proportion.
Israel also attack civilian places that have been pointed out to them that Hamas do NOT occupy.
What's more, the IDF have been given some very precise coordinates but Israel still attack innocent civilians.

So who is violating the GC more than the other??
You Americans swallow the Israeli PR shit hook line and sinker and the arm holding the rod!!

_____________________________

“If liberty means anything at all, it means the right to tell people what they do not want to hear.”

George Orwell, 1903-1950

(in reply to DomKen)

Post #: 297

RE: The current middle eastern crisis is Israels fault... - 7/27/2014 12:35:10 PM

freedomdwarf1

Posts: 6845
Joined: 10/23/2012
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: BamaD
You keep arguing on one hand that they aren't a army, then you turn around and argue that they have all the protections of one. Exactly the kind of logic I have come to expect from you.

Nope. try reading what I post instead of putting your own spin on it.

I said... Hamas have the protection under GC of a PoW - not an army.
And note, I said "unified" army - not just "army".
Perfectly sound logic when you read what was actually written.

< Message edited by freedomdwarf1 -- 7/27/2014 12:43:32 PM >

_____________________________

“If liberty means anything at all, it means the right to tell people what they do not want to hear.”

George Orwell, 1903-1950

(in reply to BamaD)

Post #: 298

RE: The current middle eastern crisis is Israels fault... - 7/27/2014 12:42:06 PM

BamaD

Posts: 20687
Joined: 2/27/2005
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: freedomdwarf1

quote:

ORIGINAL: BamaD
You keep arguing on one hand that they aren't a army, then you turn around and argue that they have all the protections of one. Exactly the kind of logic I have come to expect from you.

Nope. try reading what I post instead of putting your own spin on it.

I said... Hamas have the protection under GC of a PoW - not an army.
Perfectly sound logic when you read what was actually written.

I did, what you don't comprehend is that to have those protections you have to be part of an actual army, not a bloodthirsty terrorists. Another case of you pretending things are as you want them to be, not as they are.

_____________________________

Government ranges from a necessary evil to an intolerable one. Thomas Paine

People don't believe they can defend themselves because they have guns, they have guns because they believe they can defend themselves.

(in reply to freedomdwarf1)

Post #: 299

RE: The current middle eastern crisis is Israels fault... - 7/27/2014 12:45:34 PM

subrob1967

Posts: 4591
Joined: 9/13/2004
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: freedomdwarf1

Where can Hamas store their weapons Ken??
There just isn't anywhere outside of populated areas because it's sooo densely populated.

I agree, Hamas violate the GC every time they fire a rocket.
But there again, so do Israel by not keeping retaliation in proportion.
Israel also attack civilian places that have been pointed out to them that Hamas do NOT occupy.
What's more, the IDF have been given some very precise coordinates but Israel still attack innocent civilians.

So who is violating the GC more than the other??
You Americans swallow the Israeli PR shit hook line and sinker and the arm holding the rod!!

So you're saying Israel should fire one rocket into Gaza for every rocket fired into Israel? Would that be "proportional"?

Israel should follow Hamas's lead and fire rockets indiscriminately into Gaza, thats your opinion there Dwarf?

_____________________________

http://www.extra-life.org/

(in reply to freedomdwarf1)

Post #: 300

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