RE: We'll reroute aircraft around a volcano, but not a warzone???

RE: We'll reroute aircraft around a volcano, but not a warzone??? (Full Version)

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thompsonx -> RE: We'll reroute aircraft around a volcano, but not a warzone??? (7/18/2014 12:20:53 PM)
Fr: I have noticed that the "individualist" lunatics who are always spouting off at the mouth/ass interface about "group think" would have us drive where we choose or park where we choose. Squat on what ever land we choose (bundy et all) and demand it for free while at the same time ranting about welfare queens and their entitlement mentality. Most of us can spot a punk bullshit artist who claims to have been raised on welfare (and all that that entails)and whose father was a card carying communist. Too poor to afford a real school this bullshiter went to a public school that was representative of the economic demographic that supported it. Now we are asked by this bullshit artist to believe that they support the system that that created their childhood memories of poverty. Tell me who would believe such an absurd story if someone parsed it to you?]/b][8\|]

Politesub53 -> RE: We'll reroute aircraft around a volcano, but not a warzone??? (7/18/2014 4:13:52 PM)
Russia has to be behind this. The BUK missile sytems are high tec so seperatists had to have had some in depth training, or maybe even Russian/advisors,special forces etc were manning the missile launchers. I suspect they thought the plane they hit was another transport plane like the one downed recently. As for re-routing the aircraft, the world civil aviation authoritites had declared this particular route safe above 30,000 ft.

thompsonx -> RE: We'll reroute aircraft around a volcano, but not a warzone??? (7/18/2014 4:24:26 PM)
ORIGINAL: Politesub53 Russia has to be behind this. Russia has everything to loose and nothing to gain by this. The BUK missile sytems are high tec so seperatists had to have had some in depth training, or maybe even Russian/advisors,special forces etc were manning the missile launchers. If it was it would make more sense for the trigger man to be one of the seperatist ...(lack of rigid training)/ I suspect they thought the plane they hit was another transport plane like the one downed recently. That would make sense. As for re-routing the aircraft, the world civil aviation authoritites had declared this particular route safe above 30,000 ft. Obviously they were mistaken.

Politesub53 -> RE: We'll reroute aircraft around a volcano, but not a warzone??? (7/18/2014 4:46:37 PM)
I agree, Russia has everything to lose. Putin, on the other hand, couldnt care less. he is probably regretting his decision to send these missile systems to seperatist areas, since it seems likely they hit the wrong target. That alone though, doesnt absolve Putins actions.

TheHeretic -> RE: We'll reroute aircraft around a volcano, but not a warzone??? (7/18/2014 5:24:43 PM)
The system was developed in the 1970's and entered service in 1979, Politesub. Doesn't it seem reasonable to think they were deployed in Ukraine? As I recall, the Ukrainian forces had a little yard sale on weapons, when the people got fed up with the corruption and lies of their government. Everything on the shelf was only fired in training, and only dropped once. Add the Russian design philosophy that weapons should be simple enough to use that a drunk conscript can make it go "bang" and you've got nothing. But hey, if you want to pick up the torch, drive your kiddies down to the recruiter's office, and drop them off out front. Add: From the link - the Buk missile system is deployed with the Ukrainian military http://en.uos.ua/produktsiya/tehnika-pvo/75-zenitniy-raketniy-kompleks-buk

thompsonx -> RE: We'll reroute aircraft around a volcano, but not a warzone??? (7/18/2014 5:28:24 PM)
ORIGINAL: Politesub53 I agree, Russia has everything to lose. Putin, on the other hand, couldnt care less. he is probably regretting his decision to send these missile systems to seperatist areas, since it seems likely they hit the wrong target. That alone though, doesnt absolve Putins actions. When elephants walk about they seldom pay much attention to what/whom they are stepping on. Why do you think the russians are in that uniquely highly industrialized section of ukrain and no place else in ukrain?

thompsonx -> RE: We'll reroute aircraft around a volcano, but not a warzone??? (7/18/2014 5:35:43 PM)
ORIGINAL: TheHeretic Add the Russian design philosophy that weapons should be simple enough to use that a drunk conscript can make it go "bang" and you've got nothing. Is it true that their submarines still have oars?

DomKen -> RE: We'll reroute aircraft around a volcano, but not a warzone??? (7/18/2014 5:46:36 PM)
FR I know US naval SAM targeting radars of roughly the same era as the Gadfly. Our systems had IFF that could identify a civilian plane's transponder so it is reasonable to believe the Gadfly can as well. Furthermore the plane was flying in a commercial jet way at a commercial altitude. So it almost had to be someone who got hold of the system with little if any formal training that fired the missile or it was an intentional attack on a civilian jet which just makes no sense.

epiphiny43 -> RE: We'll reroute aircraft around a volcano, but not a warzone??? (7/18/2014 5:47:07 PM)
Several points: Western observers have seen Buk systems with 'rebel' forces recently if news interviews are to be believed. The location of the crash is most probably out of range of the regular Russians if they haven't positioned themself inside the Ukraine. All Russian weapons are built so unschooled conscripts can operate them, preferably when drunk. Western military observers consider the Russian 'special forces' great fighters, most of the rest of the Regular Army is drunk day and night. Putin may not have ordered the crash. He was living on the edge giving the people concerned the motivations and weapons he has supplied. Accidents and 'unintended consequences' were all but guaranteed. Russian internal politics have been given the responsibility for most of Putin's otherwise inscrutable conduct, huge investment in the Olympics, then the PR debacle of invading Crimea, invading Georgia, backing Syria and so on.

TheHeretic -> RE: We'll reroute aircraft around a volcano, but not a warzone??? (7/18/2014 6:03:35 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: DomKen FR I know US naval SAM targeting radars of roughly the same era as the Gadfly. Our systems had IFF that could identify a civilian plane's transponder so it is reasonable to believe the Gadfly can as well. Wanna fix your boo-boo that we can assume a Gadfly had the capabilities of a Gadfly, Ken? Of course, even after you do, you'll still be assuming that Russian design philosophy must automatically be the same as on the stuff we were using 30-ish years ago.

DomKen -> RE: We'll reroute aircraft around a volcano, but not a warzone??? (7/18/2014 8:11:04 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: TheHeretic quote: ORIGINAL: DomKen FR I know US naval SAM targeting radars of roughly the same era as the Gadfly. Our systems had IFF that could identify a civilian plane's transponder so it is reasonable to believe the Gadfly can as well. Wanna fix your boo-boo that we can assume a Gadfly had the capabilities of a Gadfly, Ken? Of course, even after you do, you'll still be assuming that Russian design philosophy must automatically be the same as on the stuff we were using 30-ish years ago. Try reading that again. I didn't write what you read.

TheHeretic -> RE: We'll reroute aircraft around a volcano, but not a warzone??? (7/18/2014 8:21:49 PM)
You said we could just go ahead and assume that Soviet equipment would have the same features of US equipment from the same era. I called bullshit. What's hard?

DomKen -> RE: We'll reroute aircraft around a volcano, but not a warzone??? (7/18/2014 10:12:56 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: TheHeretic You said we could just go ahead and assume that Soviet equipment would have the same features of US equipment from the same era. I called bullshit. What's hard? No. You wrote this quote: we can assume a Gadfly had the capabilities of a Gadfly claiming I had written something equivalent. Now where in my post is any such thing?

TheHeretic -> RE: We'll reroute aircraft around a volcano, but not a warzone??? (7/18/2014 10:37:42 PM)
Already quoted it back at you, Ken. It's the same logic that makes conversation with you so pointless - you can only see things through one lens, so you reject the existence of any other. And then you blather on about it.

DomKen -> RE: We'll reroute aircraft around a volcano, but not a warzone??? (7/18/2014 11:25:01 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: TheHeretic Already quoted it back at you, Ken. It's the same logic that makes conversation with you so pointless - you can only see things through one lens, so you reject the existence of any other. And then you blather on about it. I know what I wrote since I wrote it. I don't know what other logic you think you're applying but it's pretty ridiculous to try telling me what I wrote.

TheHeretic -> RE: We'll reroute aircraft around a volcano, but not a warzone??? (7/18/2014 11:34:08 PM)
See? I made good use of my unexpected say off today, tackling the big honey-do in the garage, but if I'm going to finish the reorganization out there before it gets into the upper 90's tomorrow, I'll need an early start. Nighty-night.

egern -> RE: We'll reroute aircraft around a volcano, but not a warzone??? (7/19/2014 1:12:18 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: TheHeretic http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/europe/ukraine/10975208/At-least-six-Britons-among-dead-in-Malaysia-Airlines-crash.html First came the horror for the dead, but then, who the hell routes passenger planes over a little spot on the map where people with cold war leftovers are shooting at each other? I've wondering about that, too. Seem more than a little weird, even if they think the weapons of the combatants cannot reach that high.

egern -> RE: We'll reroute aircraft around a volcano, but not a warzone??? (7/19/2014 1:14:27 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: TheHeretic quote: ORIGINAL: KYsissy I was told that at 30,000 feet it is out of range except for the most sophisticated ground to air missiles. Which says a lot about what brought it down and where it came from. No. It doesn't. All 3 sides in play are in the remnants of exactly where the most sophisticated ground to air missiles got developed and deployed, and all 3 sides have the same weapons. Either someone did something incredibly stupid by accident, or someone did something monstrously evil on purpose, but the tool that did the job isn't going to tell us jack shit. Reports here points towards something incredibly stupid. I'd say on both sides.

thishereboi -> RE: We'll reroute aircraft around a volcano, but not a warzone??? (7/19/2014 6:35:24 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: DomKen quote: ORIGINAL: TheHeretic Already quoted it back at you, Ken. It's the same logic that makes conversation with you so pointless - you can only see things through one lens, so you reject the existence of any other. And then you blather on about it. I know what I wrote since I wrote it. I don't know what other logic you think you're applying but it's pretty ridiculous to try telling me what I wrote. You are right and especially when it's so easy just to ask...so when you wrote... "I know US naval SAM targeting radars of roughly the same era as the Gadfly. Our systems had IFF that could identify a civilian plane's transponder so it is reasonable to believe the Gadfly can as well. " if you didn't mean it was reasonable to believe they had the same capabilities just what did you mean to say?

DomKen -> RE: We'll reroute aircraft around a volcano, but not a warzone??? (7/19/2014 6:38:30 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: thishereboi quote: ORIGINAL: DomKen quote: ORIGINAL: TheHeretic Already quoted it back at you, Ken. It's the same logic that makes conversation with you so pointless - you can only see things through one lens, so you reject the existence of any other. And then you blather on about it. I know what I wrote since I wrote it. I don't know what other logic you think you're applying but it's pretty ridiculous to try telling me what I wrote. You are right and especially when it's so easy just to ask...so when you wrote... "I know US naval SAM targeting radars of roughly the same era as the Gadfly. Our systems had IFF that could identify a civilian plane's transponder so it is reasonable to believe the Gadfly can as well. " if you didn't mean it was reasonable to believe they had the same capabilities just what did you mean to say? That's what I meant. Which is not what he claimed I wrote.

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