RE: We'll reroute aircraft around a volcano, but not a warzone???

RE: We'll reroute aircraft around a volcano, but not a warzone??? (Full Version)

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thishereboi -> RE: We'll reroute aircraft around a volcano, but not a warzone??? (7/19/2014 10:45:40 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: DomKen quote: ORIGINAL: thishereboi quote: ORIGINAL: DomKen quote: ORIGINAL: TheHeretic Already quoted it back at you, Ken. It's the same logic that makes conversation with you so pointless - you can only see things through one lens, so you reject the existence of any other. And then you blather on about it. I know what I wrote since I wrote it. I don't know what other logic you think you're applying but it's pretty ridiculous to try telling me what I wrote. You are right and especially when it's so easy just to ask...so when you wrote... "I know US naval SAM targeting radars of roughly the same era as the Gadfly. Our systems had IFF that could identify a civilian plane's transponder so it is reasonable to believe the Gadfly can as well. " if you didn't mean it was reasonable to believe they had the same capabilities just what did you mean to say? That's what I meant. Which is not what he claimed I wrote. So you did say that we could assume (or in your words "was reasonable to believe") that they would have the same features of US equipment from the same era. thanks for clearing that up. quote: ORIGINAL: TheHeretic You said we could just go ahead and assume that Soviet equipment would have the same features of US equipment from the same era. I called bullshit. What's hard?

TheHeretic -> RE: We'll reroute aircraft around a volcano, but not a warzone??? (7/19/2014 12:09:32 PM)
Well of course, Boi, but Ken thinks it is far more important to talk about how doesn't like my snark, than the fact that he showed his ass spouting bullshit and assuming what he thinks is automatically true. It's a matter of priorities!

DomKen -> RE: We'll reroute aircraft around a volcano, but not a warzone??? (7/19/2014 1:23:44 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: TheHeretic Well of course, Boi, but Ken thinks it is far more important to talk about how doesn't like my snark, than the fact that he showed his ass spouting bullshit and assuming what he thinks is automatically true. It's a matter of priorities! You made a nonsensical statement and attributed it to me. Since I made no statement anything like that of course I objected. You then made another nonsensical statement. I'm still waiting for you to actually make a statement that makes some sense.

Politesub53 -> RE: We'll reroute aircraft around a volcano, but not a warzone??? (7/19/2014 5:11:07 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: TheHeretic The system was developed in the 1970's and entered service in 1979, Politesub. Doesn't it seem reasonable to think they were deployed in Ukraine? As I recall, the Ukrainian forces had a little yard sale on weapons, when the people got fed up with the corruption and lies of their government. Everything on the shelf was only fired in training, and only dropped once. Add the Russian design philosophy that weapons should be simple enough to use that a drunk conscript can make it go "bang" and you've got nothing. But hey, if you want to pick up the torch, drive your kiddies down to the recruiter's office, and drop them off out front. Add: From the link - the Buk missile system is deployed with the Ukrainian military http://en.uos.ua/produktsiya/tehnika-pvo/75-zenitniy-raketniy-kompleks-buk Projecting much Rich, or just being an arse as usual. As for your assumption that a drunk conscrpt can make these missiles go bang, thats as laughable as the rest of your post.

TheHeretic -> RE: We'll reroute aircraft around a volcano, but not a warzone??? (7/19/2014 10:08:02 PM)
Sorry, Polite, but I'm afraid my kin in the service are either on the other side of the world, or non-deployable, at the moment. You can't borrow them. Perhaps you'd like to offer us some of your firsthand experience with using military weapons, from when you were in uniform?

ThirdWheelWanted -> RE: We'll reroute aircraft around a volcano, but not a warzone??? (7/19/2014 10:14:15 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Politesub53 As for your assumption that a drunk conscrpt can make these missiles go bang, thats as laughable as the rest of your post. I've never used SAMs, but all the rockets/missiles I was trained on were pretty damn simple. Law, AT-4, TOW, Dragon. I can't recall if all were, but for at least some, the instructions are written on the tube.

BamaD -> RE: We'll reroute aircraft around a volcano, but not a warzone??? (7/19/2014 11:02:45 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: TheHeretic http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/europe/ukraine/10975208/At-least-six-Britons-among-dead-in-Malaysia-Airlines-crash.html First came the horror for the dead, but then, who the hell routes passenger planes over a little spot on the map where people with cold war leftovers are shooting at each other? Blow up a couple of buildings declare a revolution and the rest of the world blockades the country for you?

BamaD -> RE: We'll reroute aircraft around a volcano, but not a warzone??? (7/19/2014 11:06:33 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: ThirdWheelWanted quote: ORIGINAL: Politesub53 As for your assumption that a drunk conscrpt can make these missiles go bang, thats as laughable as the rest of your post. I've never used SAMs, but all the rockets/missiles I was trained on were pretty damn simple. Law, AT-4, TOW, Dragon. I can't recall if all were, but for at least some, the instructions are written on the tube. The Laws we had in the guard had instructions on them and were so simple a child could use them, of course they were not intended to be used against aircraft, no guidance system.

Politesub53 -> RE: We'll reroute aircraft around a volcano, but not a warzone??? (7/20/2014 4:09:22 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: TheHeretic Sorry, Polite, but I'm afraid my kin in the service are either on the other side of the world, or non-deployable, at the moment. You can't borrow them. Perhaps you'd like to offer us some of your firsthand experience with using military weapons, from when you were in uniform? More trolling Rich ? Any fool, even you, knows these missiles are not just fire and shoot systems. Your buddys are even bringing laws rockets into the debate, fuck knows why since its apples and oranges.

Sanity -> RE: We'll reroute aircraft around a volcano, but not a warzone??? (7/20/2014 7:55:39 AM)
Say you are a communist, "living" in a communist country. What else is there to do but drink? I would say making these systems so that they're operable by troops who live in constant drunken stupors would have to be a top priority.

booklover13 -> RE: We'll reroute aircraft around a volcano, but not a warzone??? (7/20/2014 8:08:39 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Sanity Say you are a communist, "living" in a communist country. What else is there to do but drink? I would say making these systems so that they're operable by troops who live in constant drunken stupors would have to be a top priority. Funny! [:D]

TheHeretic -> RE: We'll reroute aircraft around a volcano, but not a warzone??? (7/20/2014 8:14:55 AM)
You are being the fool, Polite, and anyone with a clue knows it. If you'd bothered to go through the link I provided earlier at all (but apparently chose to keep going with your own dumbass assumptions, instead) you would know that the missile has it's own radar guidance on board. The main radar finds the target, the operator turns on the missile, waits for the independent acquisition indicator, and pushes the button. The manual was probably right there in the glove box, when the rebels captured the equipment.

Sanity -> RE: We'll reroute aircraft around a volcano, but not a warzone??? (7/20/2014 8:16:28 AM)
When the Russians gave them the equipment

TheHeretic -> RE: We'll reroute aircraft around a volcano, but not a warzone??? (7/20/2014 8:38:51 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Sanity Say you are a communist, "living" in a communist country. What else is there to do but drink? I would say making these systems so that they're operable by troops who live in constant drunken stupors would have to be a top priority. I understand efforts are underway to change the culture these days, Sanity, but speaking from my own experience, a great deal of the US military mission can be carried out by troops with serious hangovers, too. I'm not sure why the libbish sorts are having trouble with the concept. Gearing the world to the lowest common denominator is a core practice for them.

thompsonx -> RE: We'll reroute aircraft around a volcano, but not a warzone??? (7/20/2014 10:31:52 AM)
ORIGINAL: TheHeretic Already quoted it back at you, Ken. It's the same logic that makes conversation with you so pointless - you can only see things through one lens, so you reject the existence of any other. And then you blather on about it. Pot>>>>kettle>>>>>black>>>>[8\|]

thompsonx -> RE: We'll reroute aircraft around a volcano, but not a warzone??? (7/20/2014 10:40:57 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: TheHeretic quote: ORIGINAL: DomKen FR I know US naval SAM targeting radars of roughly the same era as the Gadfly. Our systems had IFF that could identify a civilian plane's transponder so it is reasonable to believe the Gadfly can as well. Wanna fix your boo-boo that we can assume a Gadfly had the capabilities of a Gadfly, Ken? Of course, even after you do, you'll still be assuming that Russian design philosophy must automatically be the same as on the stuff we were using 30-ish years ago. Unless you have proof that the russian system did not have iff then it would be you that is full of shit? Would it not?[8\|] One would have to ask oneself why it would not have iff? I have heard that there is a pretty good reason for iff. Do we know that the iff on the downed a/c was transmitting and on the correct frequency? We still have no clue as to the reasons behind the last malaysian a/c issue.

thompsonx -> RE: We'll reroute aircraft around a volcano, but not a warzone??? (7/20/2014 10:45:40 AM)
ORIGINAL: TheHeretic I understand efforts are underway to change the culture these days, Sanity, but speaking from my own experience, a great deal of the US military mission can be carried out by troops with serious hangovers, too. We have to remember that you were in the air farce so that might have some impact on your understanding of what the real military is like. I'm not sure why the libbish sorts are having trouble with the concept. Gearing the world to the lowest common denominator is a core practice for them. Would you have any validation for this ignorant unsubstantiated childish prattle?

PeonForHer -> RE: We'll reroute aircraft around a volcano, but not a warzone??? (7/20/2014 10:48:21 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: TheHeretic You are being the fool, Polite, and anyone with a clue knows it. If you'd bothered to go through the link I provided earlier at all (but apparently chose to keep going with your own dumbass assumptions, instead) you would know that the missile has it's own radar guidance on board. The main radar finds the target, the operator turns on the missile, waits for the independent acquisition indicator, and pushes the button. The manual was probably right there in the glove box, when the rebels captured the equipment. Are we talking about this link http://en.uos.ua/produktsiya/tehnika-pvo/75-zenitniy-raketniy-kompleks-buk ... ? If so, at 1:03, you can see the BUK being operated (though whether it's the relevant model, I don't know). There are screens to monitor and buttons and dials galore to press and turn. It doesn't look like the sort of operation that would be performed by a drunk farmhand in a makeshift uniform.

TheHeretic -> RE: We'll reroute aircraft around a volcano, but not a warzone??? (7/20/2014 10:49:42 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Sanity When the Russians gave them the equipment Why would the Russians need to give them the equipment, Sanity? It was already there, when the Ukrainian forces ran away from the rebels.

thompsonx -> RE: We'll reroute aircraft around a volcano, but not a warzone??? (7/20/2014 10:52:46 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Sanity Say you are a communist, "living" in a communist country. What else is there to do but drink? What is wrong with drinking? Are you pissed because they pay less than you do for booze? Why is it that if a person works 35 hours a week for a living wage is not allowed by you to drink? Who says you should not drink? It would appear that you feel that pushing a broom is more fun...why?[8\|]

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