RE: Children exposed to religion have difficulty distinguishing fact from fiction (Full Version)

All Forums >> [Community Discussions] >> Dungeon of Political and Religious Discussion



Message


Kirata -> RE: Children exposed to religion have difficulty distinguishing fact from fiction (7/19/2014 7:40:26 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: DomKen

Actually the study showed that children who are indoctrinated in religion are prone to believing non real things. So no matter your opinion on religion it shows that introducing it to children is bad for them.

The history of science is a laundry list of impossible things that weren't, and it is likely that this will continue to be the case. You may choose to constrain your beliefs about what's possible to current scientific opinion, but the long term probability of being right is thin. It's a bad bet.

K.




smileforme50 -> RE: Children exposed to religion have difficulty distinguishing fact from fiction (7/19/2014 8:37:53 PM)

(Kind of sorry I didn't catch this topic earlier....so I'm just going to comment on my personal experience.

I went to a very conservative Christian school from 7th to 12th grade. My family wasn't particularly religious, but it was my father's attempt to prevent me from going to school in the city when our public schools were desegregated.

Anyway....there was a student there who literally believed that men had one less rib than women= because of the story in Genesis that says that Eve was created from one of Adam's ribs. It took me a couple of weeks and showing her several pictures of x-rays and skeletons to convince her that it wasn't true.




FieryOpal -> RE: Children exposed to religion have difficulty distinguishing fact from fiction (7/19/2014 9:20:48 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: PeonForHer

I shall check out what Graves said, particularly. I did watch the BBC series, as well as read the I Claudius books a few decades ago - when I was in my twenties, as I think you were yourself.


Graves collaborated with Raphael Patai to write The Hebrew Myths (1986), when I was in my mid-20's. (I didn't think you were much older than 30!) However, I seem to remember reading the hardcover which covered more than the Book of Genesis.
http://www.amazon.com/Hebrew-Myths-The-Book-Genesis/dp/0517413663
http://www.alibris.com/Hebrew-Myths-Robert-Graves/book/8382382 (1964 Hardcover)

Graves' other equally acclaimed book as I, Claudius is The White Goddess.
Patai is also the author of The Hebrew Goddess and The Arab Mind.

smileforme50, your classmate was misinformed. The proper translation for "rib" is "from the side." Eve was taken from Adam's side, to be at his side. It is also believed that she was already a part of Adam, a dual entity, and then they became separate entities, one biologically male and the other biologically female. The saying that a woman is "The Better Half" is not so far from the truth. [8D]




Arturas -> RE: Children exposed to religion have difficulty distinguishing fact from fiction (7/19/2014 9:31:23 PM)

quote:

The proper translation for "rib" is "from the side." Eve was taken from Adam's side, to be at his side. It is also believed that she was already a part of Adam, a dual entity, and then they became separate entities, one biologically male and the other biologically female.


Agree. Yes. Two halves of the whole.




thishereboi -> RE: Children exposed to religion have difficulty distinguishing fact from fiction (7/19/2014 10:41:46 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: GotSteel


quote:

ORIGINAL: thishereboi
That's interesting and since you claimed you were raised that way let me ask you a question. Do you feel your inability to determine reality from fantasy is because of this?


Yes I think that's exactly where my proclivity for magical thinking came from, it took better than a decade of reevaluating to overcome. It's a rather unpleasant process that most people never do manage to make it through.




Well if making it through means I end up spouting my beliefs like a pompous ass I think I will stick to the fairy tails. But don't let that stop you from preaching the good word. Maybe you will even lead someone to the light.




thishereboi -> RE: Children exposed to religion have difficulty distinguishing fact from fiction (7/19/2014 10:51:05 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: smileforme50

(Kind of sorry I didn't catch this topic earlier....so I'm just going to comment on my personal experience.

I went to a very conservative Christian school from 7th to 12th grade. My family wasn't particularly religious, but it was my father's attempt to prevent me from going to school in the city when our public schools were desegregated.

Anyway....there was a student there who literally believed that men had one less rib than women= because of the story in Genesis that says that Eve was created from one of Adam's ribs. It took me a couple of weeks and showing her several pictures of x-rays and skeletons to convince her that it wasn't true.


I went to public school and had a classmate whose parents never went to church and never suggested she go either. She was concerned about using tampons because she thought they went in the same hole she peed out of. She didn't know anything about the bible so I can't blame it on adam and eve and I suppose I was lucky she just took my word for it when I explained her error so I didn't have to show her several pictures but she doesn't sound any brighter than your example.




egern -> RE: Children exposed to religion have difficulty distinguishing fact from fiction (7/19/2014 11:26:21 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Arturas


quote:

ORIGINAL: egern


quote:

ORIGINAL: DarkSteven

Ridiculous. The study basically states that children who are raised religiously and presumably have parents who taught them that religion (presumably Christianity) is true, were most likely to believe that the Bible is true. Duh.


Not so 'duh'. They also think fairies are true.



I believe in fairies.


And any other pretend figures?




egern -> RE: Children exposed to religion have difficulty distinguishing fact from fiction (7/19/2014 11:32:56 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: FieryOpal


quote:

ORIGINAL: Zonie63

I actually believe that it's far easier to relate to the universe as a random occurrence without any creator. It allows one to have more peace with one's existence.

If one believes that all this crapping on lives was actually intentionally caused by a supposedly intelligent and sentient being - who micromanages and fucks with people's lives because he loves them and has a plan for them - then that would likely be far more difficult to cope with.

That said, I don't know that I entirely agree with the idea that children exposed to religion have difficulty separating fact from fiction. There may be something to it, but worse than that, my observation is that they generally become blind followers and far too obedient and compliant - even in the face of the most contemptible tyranny ever imagined.


Free Will. We have been given Free Will, as co-creators on a (much) smaller scale.

If anyone is doing the micro-managing and fucking with people's lives, it is us.

If not Plan A, there are Plans B, C and D, etc.--There are grid upon grid of probabilities and potentialities. We need only choose of our own volition when to plug back into one of them, friend.


Can you have free will without free thinking? I do not think so.




FieryOpal -> RE: Children exposed to religion have difficulty distinguishing fact from fiction (7/19/2014 11:47:11 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: egern

Can you have free will without free thinking? I do not think so.


Which came first, the chicken or the egg?

A baby will demonstrably exhibit free will, before (detectable) cognitive thought processes have formed.

Does this mean that every female raised in a patriarchal culture cannot think for herself? I think not.




LafayetteLady -> RE: Children exposed to religion have difficulty distinguishing fact from fiction (7/19/2014 11:58:53 PM)

Ok, this is supposed to be a legitamate pscychological study, right? No bias, right? Bullshit.

We are ttalking about children 5-6 years old. Yes, at that age, they believe inthe tooth fairy, Santa Claus,etc. It has nothing to do with the Bible, religious indoctrination or anything like that. It has to do with children and their imagination. Many also think there are monsters under their bed and let me assure you that very few of the religiously indoctrinated FIVE years olds belive God is going to save them from said monster so they sleep ssoundly.

Nor does it mean that when they become adults they will be unable to disstinguish fact from fiction.

What this thread apparently does prove from a psychological standpoint is that atheists on this site have a never ending issue with religion and that since so many claim to have been brought up in religious households, they have yet to take repsonsibility for their adults issues and so must continue to blame religion.

Science and religion co-exist quite well together. Yes, there are some religious zealots who reject scientific fact. But it seems all atheists can't see a co-existence either which makes them just as ignorant.

So really, how many here of the anti-religious group want to say that their childhood belief in Santa Claus still causes them confusion about the difference between fact and fiction ass adults?




Kirata -> RE: Children exposed to religion have difficulty distinguishing fact from fiction (7/20/2014 1:06:01 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: cloudboy

Humans need social order, stability, purpose, a sense of belonging, meaning, and a way to process death. If you stacked all these on a scale v. truth, I think truth loses and might actually be treated as threat. Truth for many people is what works for them as opposed to being objectivist (objective.)

It is worthy of note that the things you mention all contribute to a happy and fulfilled life. And as you yourself admit, human beings need them. That is an unchanging fact of reality, whereas scientific views about the limits of what is possible in this reality have suffered many adjustments. So it behooves us to recognize that our current understanding is only our best at this time, and virtually certain to change, just as it always has before. There is no basis for assigning it the designation of "truth" unless you're speaking as a priest.

K.





GotSteel -> RE: Children exposed to religion have difficulty distinguishing fact from fiction (7/20/2014 4:32:37 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: thishereboi
Well if making it through means I end up spouting my beliefs like a pompous ass I think I will stick to the fairy tails.

Well right now you're doing both so you might as well consider cutting down on the fairy tales.




GotSteel -> RE: Children exposed to religion have difficulty distinguishing fact from fiction (7/20/2014 4:43:16 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: FieryOpal
Without possessing the ability to make paradigm shifts in their thinking perspectives, Newton and Einstein, da Vinci, Pasteur or Marie Curie (to name a few), could hardly have become the geniuses that they were.


I don't think it follows that if you don't break a child's critical thinking skills they won't have an imagination. We expose children to plenty of fantasy it's not necessary to brainwash them into thinking said fantasy is true.




GotSteel -> RE: Children exposed to religion have difficulty distinguishing fact from fiction (7/20/2014 4:58:11 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: FieryOpal
You call it a waste. One man's waste is another man's treasure trove. Paving paths and blazing trails opens the way for others to follow and to build upon original precepts. Neither are more special than the other. One does not invent new methodologies and consolidate principles out of thin air.


Then by all means where are the fruits of Newton's years spent in crazy religious hermitage?




cloudboy -> RE: Children exposed to religion have difficulty distinguishing fact from fiction (7/20/2014 6:23:20 AM)

Read a good article in the NYT yesterday:

The article pitted a female minister against -- those who claim to be spiritual but not religious.

"religion is better at challenging people to face death, fight poverty and oppose injustice. Religion, by bringing people together, in community, at regular intervals, facilitates an ongoing conversation about matters outside the self.

“Being privately spiritual but not religious just doesn’t interest me,” she writes. “There is nothing challenging about having deep thoughts all by oneself. What is interesting is doing this work in community, where other people might call you on stuff or, heaven forbid, disagree with you. Where life with God gets rich and provocative is when you dig into a tradition that you did not invent all for yourself.”


Religion organizes people behind a belief and calls them to act upon it. The problem occurs, however, when this happens without critical thought and when there's "out-grouping" as Got Steel describes it. For instance yesterday ISIS told all the Christians in Mosul to GET OUT. The main problem I see with religion is how the religious "act upon their religion" as a way of judgment over others who don't share the same beliefs.

It is somewhat remarkable that Religious fanaticism and fundamentalism remain such powerful movements today in the modern age of information and science.




Zonie63 -> RE: Children exposed to religion have difficulty distinguishing fact from fiction (7/20/2014 6:51:35 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: FieryOpal


quote:

ORIGINAL: Zonie63

I actually believe that it's far easier to relate to the universe as a random occurrence without any creator. It allows one to have more peace with one's existence.

If one believes that all this crapping on lives was actually intentionally caused by a supposedly intelligent and sentient being - who micromanages and fucks with people's lives because he loves them and has a plan for them - then that would likely be far more difficult to cope with.

That said, I don't know that I entirely agree with the idea that children exposed to religion have difficulty separating fact from fiction. There may be something to it, but worse than that, my observation is that they generally become blind followers and far too obedient and compliant - even in the face of the most contemptible tyranny ever imagined.


Free Will. We have been given Free Will, as co-creators on a (much) smaller scale.

If anyone is doing the micro-managing and fucking with people's lives, it is us.

If not Plan A, there are Plans B, C and D, etc.--There are grid upon grid of probabilities and potentialities. We need only choose of our own volition when to plug back into one of them, friend.


I was referring to events and happenings often attributed to "god's will" or "acts of god." Like whenever there's a tornado, earthquake, or similar calamity. If one believes that the universe was created and controlled by an intelligent, sentient deity, then one would have to believe that this deity is intentionally causing events like these to happen.

This was in response to a post about the universe throwing curves and life crapping on one, it was suggested that one can cope better with these things if one believes in God versus those who don't. I would suggest that it's much easier to cope if one attributes misfortune to non-sentient nature, physical laws, and/or random chance.

I believe in freedom of choice as a political philosophy. But I also recognize that there's a great deal which the individual can't choose, such as where he's born, who his parents/family are, what language he's first taught, and many other things which are formed before the individual can even exercise his/her will.

Even within our own bodies, most of the processes are automatic and outside of any individual's free will. Picture a guy with insomnia; his free will is telling his body "go to sleep," but something is keeping his body awake - against his own free will. Insomnia can lead to other consequences which would also affect someone's choices and actions. One may resort to taking sleeping pills or other drugs to go to sleep, or the lack of sleep could lead to psychosis or an inability to concentrate (which could also have consequences if one is driving or at a job where concentration is essential).

Overall, our bodies are rather frail and limited, which also would affect our freedom and ability to make choices. In addition to sleep, we need food, air, water, and a certain temperature range to be able to survive (not too cold, not too hot), so our choices are certainly affected by such limitations. We also have no control over the aging process or how environmental factors affect our bodies and thought processes. And according to the belief system, we're supposed to believe that all of this is by design, that "God" created these limitations and frailties intentionally - for reasons that only "God" knows.

It always did seem rather ludicrous to feel compelled to "thank God" for our daily bread when "He" was the one who created our bodies to need food in the first place.




altoonamaster -> RE: Children exposed to religion have difficulty distinguishing fact from fiction (7/20/2014 7:21:31 AM)

so much is written about this adam and eve/however in this bible it does not show what happen to them afterwards




altoonamaster -> RE: Children exposed to religion have difficulty distinguishing fact from fiction (7/20/2014 7:29:13 AM)

i love the saying everytime something good happens its god/something bad its the devil




altoonamaster -> RE: Children exposed to religion have difficulty distinguishing fact from fiction (7/20/2014 7:31:46 AM)

and these television preachers always asking for more money to preach the gospel to unsaved souls/christanity has been around 2000 yrs and still has not saved everybody?




thishereboi -> RE: Children exposed to religion have difficulty distinguishing fact from fiction (7/20/2014 7:38:14 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: GotSteel

quote:

ORIGINAL: thishereboi
Well if making it through means I end up spouting my beliefs like a pompous ass I think I will stick to the fairy tails.

Well right now you're doing both so you might as well consider cutting down on the fairy tales.



You are correct, that was a very snarky comment. My bad.

But LafeyetteLady summed it up very well. But just in case you missed it....



quote:

ORIGINAL: LafayetteLady

Ok, this is supposed to be a legitamate pscychological study, right? No bias, right? Bullshit.

We are ttalking about children 5-6 years old. Yes, at that age, they believe inthe tooth fairy, Santa Claus,etc. It has nothing to do with the Bible, religious indoctrination or anything like that. It has to do with children and their imagination. Many also think there are monsters under their bed and let me assure you that very few of the religiously indoctrinated FIVE years olds belive God is going to save them from said monster so they sleep ssoundly.

Nor does it mean that when they become adults they will be unable to disstinguish fact from fiction.

What this thread apparently does prove from a psychological standpoint is that atheists on this site have a never ending issue with religion and that since so many claim to have been brought up in religious households, they have yet to take responsibility for their adults issues and so must continue to blame religion.

Science and religion co-exist quite well together. Yes, there are some religious zealots who reject scientific fact. But it seems all atheists can't see a co-existence either which makes them just as ignorant.

So really, how many here of the anti-religious group want to say that their childhood belief in Santa Claus still causes them confusion about the difference between fact and fiction ass adults?



And I'll even highlight some of the better stuff.




Page: <<   < prev  2 3 [4] 5 6   next >   >>

Valid CSS!




Collarchat.com © 2025
Terms of Service Privacy Policy Spam Policy
0.0625