quote:

ORIGINAL: eulero83
can you at least admit it takes more effort to kill someone with a baseball bat than with a gun and it's not the same thing?

quote:

ORIGINAL: BamaD

quote:

ORIGINAL: DomKen

quote:

ORIGINAL: BamaD

quote:

ORIGINAL: DomKen

How soon the gun nuts forget.
http://www.latimes.com/nation/nationnow/la-na-nn-las-vegas-cops-killed-in-ambush-20140608-story.html

Seems sometimes the armed civilian does not stop these sorts of things.

We all remember that, it was unfortunate.
But your argument implies that what may have been one extra dead in Las Vegas means that we should have allowed God knows how many extra in PA.
A We don't know what the body count would have been in Las Vegas without the unfortunate outcome of intervention.
B We do know that Plott wasn't done shooting we he was shot.
C Remember telling me then how
1 Tell citizen would shoot innocent bystanders because he couldn't Tell
the shooter from the people fleeing from him, besides gun owners
are such bad shots they would hit the wrong people?
2 The cops would shoot the citizen in a heartbeat?
didn't happen did it.
NOBODY said an armed citizen would always stop the bad guy but the whole anti gun crowd assured us he never would.

No one said 100% anything liar. As always you are full of shit. But the fact is you presented a case where a guy stopped a shooting and I presented a case where a guy failed. That pretty much ends the debate. The fact of the matter is a civilian having or not having a gun doesn't seem to materially affect the outcome of these events.

The fact is that the antigun people always assure us that the armed citizen will increase casualties period neither you or any other gun grabber used anything like sometimes. You may not have used the phrase 100% but you did your best to create that impression. You also flat out stated that the cops would shoot the citizen "in a heartbeat".
You have one were the citizen most likely didn't save lives, and I have one where they clearly did and TheHeretic provided one were they did. That means one third as many as there would be without armed citizens so thank you for helping to prove my point.
PS
Everyone knows that you break out the liar word when you know you have lost.

quote:

ORIGINAL: freedomdwarf1

quote:

ORIGINAL: eulero83
can you at least admit it takes more effort to kill someone with a baseball bat than with a gun and it's not the same thing?

Buy why would you want to kill an unarmed person???

quote:

ORIGINAL: servantforuse

I'm wondering if that hospital had a sign on the door saying that it was a gun free zone ? Why would anyone bring a gun into a building with a sign saying guns are prohibited ?

quote:

ORIGINAL: eulero83

can you at least admit it takes more effort to kill someone with a baseball bat than with a gun and it's not the same thing?

quote:

ORIGINAL: DaddySatyr

quote:

ORIGINAL: eulero83

can you at least admit it takes more effort to kill someone with a baseball bat than with a gun and it's not the same thing?

I'm semi-joking, here but let me draw you a parallel:

I have become less physically able than I used to be. I used to love playing baseball, (proper, American) football, and golf. As a result; I do like swinging a baseball bat.

There's an old saw that goes: "If you love what you do, you'll never work a day in your life"

What's the point? Well, the point is: We could totally obliterate guns from the face of the earth and we'd still have people making that "extra effort" to kill others. They enjoy it.







Screen captures still RULE! Ya feel me?

quote:

ORIGINAL: eulero83

I see that point, I don't agree with simplifying things so much, but I understant it, you'd say more or less that in a room with many people it's safer if there are many guns instead of one single gun, becuse if you don't have the only one gun you'd be in danger in case the bad guy has it. My point is from another prospective every crazy person seems cool untill he deosn't snap so if there are many guns around every loonatic will become lethal as soon as he geos postal.
The baseball bat is something that (outside a baseball field) needs some degree of premeditation, I don't know many people that walk around with baseball bats or even knives "just in case", a handgun for people with a carry permit is usually always there, ready on your side. If you read the document I linked in post #24 it's clear law abaiding citizens in the us are more lethal than criminals, so if only police and and criminals had a gun than you'd be at least two times safer.
I honestly do not live my life contemplating the possibility I cuold be killed, nor my friends or relatives do, and even if kiatra implyed he'd be happy if I was brutally murdered so he could say "told you so" I still think it's a very remote possibility and I don't need a gun like I don't need an elmet to walk around.

quote:

ORIGINAL: freedomdwarf1

quote:

ORIGINAL: BamaD
The fact is that the antigun people always assure us that the armed citizen will increase casualties period,,, <snip>

That's not quite right.

What us anti-gun people say is... if the populace didn't have guns in the first place, these gun situations just wouldn't arise to be debated.
Ergo, the argument about a citizen being armed or not is moot and irrelevant.

quote:

ORIGINAL: DomKen

quote:

ORIGINAL: BamaD

quote:

ORIGINAL: DomKen

quote:

ORIGINAL: BamaD

quote:

ORIGINAL: DomKen

How soon the gun nuts forget.
http://www.latimes.com/nation/nationnow/la-na-nn-las-vegas-cops-killed-in-ambush-20140608-story.html

Seems sometimes the armed civilian does not stop these sorts of things.

We all remember that, it was unfortunate.
But your argument implies that what may have been one extra dead in Las Vegas means that we should have allowed God knows how many extra in PA.
A We don't know what the body count would have been in Las Vegas without the unfortunate outcome of intervention.
B We do know that Plott wasn't done shooting we he was shot.
C Remember telling me then how
1 Tell citizen would shoot innocent bystanders because he couldn't Tell
the shooter from the people fleeing from him, besides gun owners
are such bad shots they would hit the wrong people?
2 The cops would shoot the citizen in a heartbeat?
didn't happen did it.
NOBODY said an armed citizen would always stop the bad guy but the whole anti gun crowd assured us he never would.

No one said 100% anything liar. As always you are full of shit. But the fact is you presented a case where a guy stopped a shooting and I presented a case where a guy failed. That pretty much ends the debate. The fact of the matter is a civilian having or not having a gun doesn't seem to materially affect the outcome of these events.

The fact is that the antigun people always assure us that the armed citizen will increase casualties period neither you or any other gun grabber used anything like sometimes. You may not have used the phrase 100% but you did your best to create that impression. You also flat out stated that the cops would shoot the citizen "in a heartbeat".
You have one were the citizen most likely didn't save lives, and I have one where they clearly did and TheHeretic provided one were they did. That means one third as many as there would be without armed citizens so thank you for helping to prove my point.
PS
Everyone knows that you break out the liar word when you know you have lost.

Bull. TH provided nothing! The guy with the CCW didn't shoot and didn't actually stop the shooter. He just claimed the shooter saw him and stopped. We'll never know what really stopped him.

And the fact is you did lie and you did again in this post. You are completely unable to be honest about opposing opinions.

quote:

ORIGINAL: DaddySatyr

quote:

ORIGINAL: eulero83

I see that point, I don't agree with simplifying things so much, but I understant it, you'd say more or less that in a room with many people it's safer if there are many guns instead of one single gun, becuse if you don't have the only one gun you'd be in danger in case the bad guy has it. My point is from another prospective every crazy person seems cool untill he deosn't snap so if there are many guns around every loonatic will become lethal as soon as he geos postal.
The baseball bat is something that (outside a baseball field) needs some degree of premeditation, I don't know many people that walk around with baseball bats or even knives "just in case", a handgun for people with a carry permit is usually always there, ready on your side. If you read the document I linked in post #24 it's clear law abaiding citizens in the us are more lethal than criminals, so if only police and and criminals had a gun than you'd be at least two times safer.
I honestly do not live my life contemplating the possibility I cuold be killed, nor my friends or relatives do, and even if kiatra implyed he'd be happy if I was brutally murdered so he could say "told you so" I still think it's a very remote possibility and I don't need a gun like I don't need an elmet to walk around.

I'm sorry but you actually missed the point.

quote:

The baseball bat is something that (outside a baseball field) needs some degree of premeditation.

You're joking. Right? Carrying an illegal gun requires no premeditation? Please tell me you're kidding?

Eliminate guns. Get rid of every single one and people will start arming themselves with baseball bats, and knives, and screw drivers, and saws, and hammers, and rocks and ... all of which require "premeditation".

A police officer, before they enter the academy, has "meditated" as to whether or not they'd be willing to carry a gun/take a life.

That's the point. Criminals ... people who don't give a fiddler's fuck about human life will continue to kill others by any means possible.

Drug addicts use drugs. Cat burglars rob people. Killers will kill. It's that simple.

I am allowed to carry a weapon anytime I want. I haven't carried one in over a decade. So, I don't "walk around, afraid that I'm going to be killed". It's a personal choice I've made but I am very glad that I have friends that are always armed (Pennsyltucky is an "open carry" commonwealth).







Screen captures still RULE! Ya feel me?

quote:

ORIGINAL: eulero83

quote:

ORIGINAL: DaddySatyr

quote:

ORIGINAL: eulero83

I see that point, I don't agree with simplifying things so much, but I understant it, you'd say more or less that in a room with many people it's safer if there are many guns instead of one single gun, becuse if you don't have the only one gun you'd be in danger in case the bad guy has it. My point is from another prospective every crazy person seems cool untill he deosn't snap so if there are many guns around every loonatic will become lethal as soon as he geos postal.
The baseball bat is something that (outside a baseball field) needs some degree of premeditation, I don't know many people that walk around with baseball bats or even knives "just in case", a handgun for people with a carry permit is usually always there, ready on your side. If you read the document I linked in post #24 it's clear law abaiding citizens in the us are more lethal than criminals, so if only police and and criminals had a gun than you'd be at least two times safer.
I honestly do not live my life contemplating the possibility I cuold be killed, nor my friends or relatives do, and even if kiatra implyed he'd be happy if I was brutally murdered so he could say "told you so" I still think it's a very remote possibility and I don't need a gun like I don't need an elmet to walk around.

I'm sorry but you actually missed the point.

quote:

The baseball bat is something that (outside a baseball field) needs some degree of premeditation.

You're joking. Right? Carrying an illegal gun requires no premeditation? Please tell me you're kidding?

Eliminate guns. Get rid of every single one and people will start arming themselves with baseball bats, and knives, and screw drivers, and saws, and hammers, and rocks and ... all of which require "premeditation".

A police officer, before they enter the academy, has "meditated" as to whether or not they'd be willing to carry a gun/take a life.

That's the point. Criminals ... people who don't give a fiddler's fuck about human life will continue to kill others by any means possible.

Drug addicts use drugs. Cat burglars rob people. Killers will kill. It's that simple.

I am allowed to carry a weapon anytime I want. I haven't carried one in over a decade. So, I don't "walk around, afraid that I'm going to be killed". It's a personal choice I've made but I am very glad that I have friends that are always armed (Pennsyltucky is an "open carry" commonwealth).







Screen captures still RULE! Ya feel me?

I can't understand, and I'm genuine asking this, how can someone in the usa carry an illegal gun? if someone has criminal records than it's illegal? For what I understood you just go to the sheriff office and he has to issue a permit and than you go in a shop, or even to a private person, and buy one. And by the way... you always talk about this "illegal guns", but can you give any proof all those homicides not connected to crimes involved illegal guns?
That if you take away guns people will arm themself with something else is a fear not a fact, I do not see anyone armed with bats or knives here around, nor in any other country I visited.

quote:

ORIGINAL: BamaD

quote:

ORIGINAL: DaddySatyr
I watched the archived version of the live 1800 update (It was the second photo in the banner, when I saw it) on the website. Two things stuck out for me:

The prosecutor (who was giving the press conference) said "The perpetrator is a psychiatric patient who ..."

and one of the Pablum©-puking press asked: "Was the doctor afraid of Plotts? Is that why he armed himself?"

What a fucking turd.

Screen captures still RULE! Ya feel me?
ETC Douche-bag's last name

I would be more concerned with how Plott got a gun.
More evidence that these shootings are a mental health problem.

quote:

ORIGINAL: BamaD

quote:

ORIGINAL: eulero83

quote:

ORIGINAL: DaddySatyr

quote:

ORIGINAL: eulero83
I see that point, I don't agree with simplifying things so much, but I understant it, you'd say more or less that in a room with many people it's safer if there are many guns instead of one single gun, becuse if you don't have the only one gun you'd be in danger in case the bad guy has it. My point is from another prospective every crazy person seems cool untill he deosn't snap so if there are many guns around every loonatic will become lethal as soon as he geos postal.
The baseball bat is something that (outside a baseball field) needs some degree of premeditation, I don't know many people that walk around with baseball bats or even knives "just in case", a handgun for people with a carry permit is usually always there, ready on your side. If you read the document I linked in post #24 it's clear law abaiding citizens in the us are more lethal than criminals, so if only police and and criminals had a gun than you'd be at least two times safer.
I honestly do not live my life contemplating the possibility I cuold be killed, nor my friends or relatives do, and even if kiatra implyed he'd be happy if I was brutally murdered so he could say "told you so" I still think it's a very remote possibility and I don't need a gun like I don't need an elmet to walk around.

I'm sorry but you actually missed the point.

quote:

The baseball bat is something that (outside a baseball field) needs some degree of premeditation.

You're joking. Right? Carrying an illegal gun requires no premeditation? Please tell me you're kidding?

Eliminate guns. Get rid of every single one and people will start arming themselves with baseball bats, and knives, and screw drivers, and saws, and hammers, and rocks and ... all of which require "premeditation".

A police officer, before they enter the academy, has "meditated" as to whether or not they'd be willing to carry a gun/take a life.

That's the point. Criminals ... people who don't give a fiddler's fuck about human life will continue to kill others by any means possible.

Drug addicts use drugs. Cat burglars rob people. Killers will kill. It's that simple.

I am allowed to carry a weapon anytime I want. I haven't carried one in over a decade. So, I don't "walk around, afraid that I'm going to be killed". It's a personal choice I've made but I am very glad that I have friends that are always armed (Pennsyltucky is an "open carry" commonwealth).

Screen captures still RULE! Ya feel me?

I can't understand, and I'm genuine asking this, how can someone in the usa carry an illegal gun? if someone has criminal records than it's illegal? For what I understood you just go to the sheriff office and he has to issue a permit and than you go in a shop, or even to a private person, and buy one. And by the way... you always talk about this "illegal guns", but can you give any proof all those homicides not connected to crimes involved illegal guns?
That if you take away guns people will arm themself with something else is a fear not a fact, I do not see anyone armed with bats or knives here around, nor in any other country I visited.

If a person has been convicted of a felony they cannot legally own a gun.
If the gun is stolen it is not a legal gun.
There are more people murdered with blunt objects (like baseball bats) than with all types of long guns put together (hunting rifles, shotguns, and guns that look like assault weapons).
knives are at least as concealable as firearms so you wouldn't see them unless they were used on you.

quote:

ORIGINAL: DaddySatyr
You're joking. Right? Carrying an illegal gun requires no premeditation? Please tell me you're kidding?

Eliminate guns. Get rid of every single one and people will start arming themselves with baseball bats, and knives, and screw drivers, and saws, and hammers, and rocks and ... all of which require "premeditation".

A police officer, before they enter the academy, has "meditated" as to whether or not they'd be willing to carry a gun/take a life.

That's the point. Criminals ... people who don't give a fiddler's fuck about human life will continue to kill others by any means possible.

Drug addicts use drugs. Cat burglars rob people. Killers will kill. It's that simple.

I am allowed to carry a weapon anytime I want. I haven't carried one in over a decade. So, I don't "walk around, afraid that I'm going to be killed". It's a personal choice I've made but I am very glad that I have friends that are always armed (Pennsyltucky is an "open carry" commonwealth).

quote:

ORIGINAL: BamaD

Bull. TH provided nothing! The guy with the CCW didn't shoot and didn't actually stop the shooter. He just claimed the shooter saw him and stopped. We'll never know what really stopped him.

===============================================

If there is no big body count you dismiss the citizen cause the attacker might possibly maybe didn't mean any harm.
If there is a big body count you dismiss the citizen cause he didn't stop it before there was one.

quote:

ORIGINAL: BamaD

FR
In this case a mentally ill man (with history of violence) decided to go on a shooting spree.
An armed civilian stopped him.
He didn't mistake victims for the shooter (as we have been told would happen)
He didn't fire wildly and shoot bystanders (as we have been told would happen)
He wasn't shot by the police (as we have been told would happen)
And we are told that armed citizens do no good because they don't always win.
Some would have us believe that the crazy person would have balked at using a knife.
And that somehow an unarmed doctor is not at a overwhelming disadvantage against a
crazy person with a knife.

quote:

The struggle spilled into the hallway, where another doctor and caseworker jumped in to help Silverman and secure Plotts' weapon, Whelan said.