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RE: Doctor shoots man at hospital - 7/25/2014 5:24:33 PM   
BamaD


Posts: 20687
Joined: 2/27/2005
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quote:

ORIGINAL: joether

quote:

ORIGINAL: BamaD
quote:

ORIGINAL: eulero83
quote:

ORIGINAL: DaddySatyr
quote:

ORIGINAL: eulero83
I see that point, I don't agree with simplifying things so much, but I understant it, you'd say more or less that in a room with many people it's safer if there are many guns instead of one single gun, becuse if you don't have the only one gun you'd be in danger in case the bad guy has it. My point is from another prospective every crazy person seems cool untill he deosn't snap so if there are many guns around every loonatic will become lethal as soon as he geos postal.
The baseball bat is something that (outside a baseball field) needs some degree of premeditation, I don't know many people that walk around with baseball bats or even knives "just in case", a handgun for people with a carry permit is usually always there, ready on your side. If you read the document I linked in post #24 it's clear law abaiding citizens in the us are more lethal than criminals, so if only police and and criminals had a gun than you'd be at least two times safer.
I honestly do not live my life contemplating the possibility I cuold be killed, nor my friends or relatives do, and even if kiatra implyed he'd be happy if I was brutally murdered so he could say "told you so" I still think it's a very remote possibility and I don't need a gun like I don't need an elmet to walk around.

I'm sorry but you actually missed the point.

quote:

The baseball bat is something that (outside a baseball field) needs some degree of premeditation.


You're joking. Right? Carrying an illegal gun requires no premeditation? Please tell me you're kidding?

Eliminate guns. Get rid of every single one and people will start arming themselves with baseball bats, and knives, and screw drivers, and saws, and hammers, and rocks and ... all of which require "premeditation".

A police officer, before they enter the academy, has "meditated" as to whether or not they'd be willing to carry a gun/take a life.

That's the point. Criminals ... people who don't give a fiddler's fuck about human life will continue to kill others by any means possible.

Drug addicts use drugs. Cat burglars rob people. Killers will kill. It's that simple.

I am allowed to carry a weapon anytime I want. I haven't carried one in over a decade. So, I don't "walk around, afraid that I'm going to be killed". It's a personal choice I've made but I am very glad that I have friends that are always armed (Pennsyltucky is an "open carry" commonwealth).

Screen captures still RULE! Ya feel me?

I can't understand, and I'm genuine asking this, how can someone in the usa carry an illegal gun? if someone has criminal records than it's illegal? For what I understood you just go to the sheriff office and he has to issue a permit and than you go in a shop, or even to a private person, and buy one. And by the way... you always talk about this "illegal guns", but can you give any proof all those homicides not connected to crimes involved illegal guns?
That if you take away guns people will arm themself with something else is a fear not a fact, I do not see anyone armed with bats or knives here around, nor in any other country I visited.

If a person has been convicted of a felony they cannot legally own a gun.
If the gun is stolen it is not a legal gun.
There are more people murdered with blunt objects (like baseball bats) than with all types of long guns put together (hunting rifles, shotguns, and guns that look like assault weapons).
knives are at least as concealable as firearms so you wouldn't see them unless they were used on you.


Come on BamaD, that's being intellectually dishonest. 'blunt objects' kill more people than firearms? If that was true, US Military Soldiers in all four branches would be armed with the 'latest and greatest' in 'Bat Technology'. When I do a search for 'US soldiers' and look at images, they seem to be armed with...FIREARMS. Likewise, US law enforcement seems to be armed with....FIREARMS. Also, those advocating a much more 'lenient definition' of the 2nd amendment (i.e. Gun Nuts) seem to be armed with...FIREARMS. If 'blunt objects' were so menacing, care to explain to me why each of these groups, including criminals, desire firearms over baseball bats?

Yes, 'blunt objects' are much easier to come by than firearms. Yet, if given a choice between an M-4 or a four pound rock to deal with someone that's about to attack/kill you; which do you take? And if you had to injure/kill someone, which of those would you take?

Can we minus the bullshit out of this thread? Pretty please with sugar on top?




Read it again , not only did I specifically say LONG GUNS but for those who didn't know what that meant I stated that it meant rifles, shotguns, and guns that look like assault weapons. Your claim that I said all firearms discredits anything else you said.

_____________________________

Government ranges from a necessary evil to an intolerable one. Thomas Paine

People don't believe they can defend themselves because they have guns, they have guns because they believe they can defend themselves.

(in reply to joether)
Profile   Post #: 41
RE: Doctor shoots man at hospital - 7/25/2014 5:31:23 PM   
BamaD


Posts: 20687
Joined: 2/27/2005
Status: offline 		Actually what happened is everyone else present was shot and eventually unarmed civilians did stop him.

================================================

While thrashing about to defend your fantasy you left out one minor detail.
Before the unarmed civilians stopped him he had been shot and, according to the doctors CRITICALLY WOUNDED.
Gave them a bit of an edge don't you think?
Once again you disagree with the cops who say the doctor save a number of lives.

< Message edited by BamaD -- 7/25/2014 6:11:28 PM >

_____________________________

Government ranges from a necessary evil to an intolerable one. Thomas Paine

People don't believe they can defend themselves because they have guns, they have guns because they believe they can defend themselves.

(in reply to DomKen)
Profile   Post #: 42
RE: Doctor shoots man at hospital - 7/25/2014 7:40:15 PM   
DomKen


Posts: 19457
Joined: 7/4/2004
From: Chicago, IL
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quote:

ORIGINAL: BamaD

Actually what happened is everyone else present was shot and eventually unarmed civilians did stop him.

================================================

While thrashing about to defend your fantasy you left out one minor detail.
Before the unarmed civilians stopped him he had been shot and, according to the doctors CRITICALLY WOUNDED.
Gave them a bit of an edge don't you think?
Once again you disagree with the cops who say the doctor save a number of lives.

Just pointing out the facts as presented instead of the opinion of the cops. The facts are that the guy left the office and it took two more people to wrestle him to the ground. He may have been critically wounded but he was not incapacitated and he was still a danger after the shoot out ended and he went off in search of more victims. It took brave unarmed people to actually stop this.

(in reply to BamaD)
Profile   Post #: 43
RE: Doctor shoots man at hospital - 7/25/2014 7:52:27 PM   
BamaD


Posts: 20687
Joined: 2/27/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: DomKen

quote:

ORIGINAL: BamaD

Actually what happened is everyone else present was shot and eventually unarmed civilians did stop him.

================================================

While thrashing about to defend your fantasy you left out one minor detail.
Before the unarmed civilians stopped him he had been shot and, according to the doctors CRITICALLY WOUNDED.
Gave them a bit of an edge don't you think?
Once again you disagree with the cops who say the doctor save a number of lives.

Just pointing out the facts as presented instead of the opinion of the cops. The facts are that the guy left the office and it took two more people to wrestle him to the ground. He may have been critically wounded but he was not incapacitated and he was still a danger after the shoot out ended and he went off in search of more victims. It took brave unarmed people to actually stop this.

Fact do you have any idea what condition he was in when he staggered out of the office with "several" gunshot wounds?
If he had come out unharmed slashing away with a knife do you honestly
think they would have been so brave?
Plotts is in critical condition it took more courage for the doctor to stand up to him and you have to know it.

_____________________________

Government ranges from a necessary evil to an intolerable one. Thomas Paine

People don't believe they can defend themselves because they have guns, they have guns because they believe they can defend themselves.

(in reply to DomKen)
Profile   Post #: 44
RE: Doctor shoots man at hospital - 7/25/2014 7:54:58 PM   
TheHeretic


Posts: 19100
Joined: 3/25/2007
From: California, USA
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: freedomdwarf1

What us anti-gun people say is...




And we Americans respond that if our Aunt had a dick, she would be our uncle. The people in this country have the right to keep and bear arms. We also have a whole holiday dedicated to telling the British what they can do with their fucking opinions on our affairs.

_____________________________

If you lose one sense, your other senses are enhanced.
That's why people with no sense of humor have such an inflated sense of self-importance.


(in reply to freedomdwarf1)
Profile   Post #: 45
RE: Doctor shoots man at hospital - 7/25/2014 7:57:51 PM   
TheHeretic


Posts: 19100
Joined: 3/25/2007
From: California, USA
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Politesub53

Thread ?......... No Rich, it is just the usual trolling that you enjoy so much.




Trolling? I do come here to be amused, Polite, but you'll notice I stick to issues I care about, in a country where I live. That's a hell of a lot more than your trolling, race-baiting bitch ass can claim.



_____________________________

If you lose one sense, your other senses are enhanced.
That's why people with no sense of humor have such an inflated sense of self-importance.


(in reply to Politesub53)
Profile   Post #: 46
RE: Doctor shoots man at hospital - 7/25/2014 8:29:15 PM   
DomKen


Posts: 19457
Joined: 7/4/2004
From: Chicago, IL
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: BamaD


quote:

ORIGINAL: DomKen

quote:

ORIGINAL: BamaD

Actually what happened is everyone else present was shot and eventually unarmed civilians did stop him.

================================================

While thrashing about to defend your fantasy you left out one minor detail.
Before the unarmed civilians stopped him he had been shot and, according to the doctors CRITICALLY WOUNDED.
Gave them a bit of an edge don't you think?
Once again you disagree with the cops who say the doctor save a number of lives.

Just pointing out the facts as presented instead of the opinion of the cops. The facts are that the guy left the office and it took two more people to wrestle him to the ground. He may have been critically wounded but he was not incapacitated and he was still a danger after the shoot out ended and he went off in search of more victims. It took brave unarmed people to actually stop this.

Fact do you have any idea what condition he was in when he staggered out of the office with "several" gunshot wounds?
If he had come out unharmed slashing away with a knife do you honestly
think they would have been so brave?
Plotts is in critical condition it took more courage for the doctor to stand up to him and you have to know it.

No. It is not the first time unarmed people have stopped an armed assailant. Only gun nuts refuse to understand that bravery does not come from the barrel of a gun.

(in reply to BamaD)
Profile   Post #: 47
RE: Doctor shoots man at hospital - 7/25/2014 8:42:56 PM   
ThirdWheelWanted


Posts: 391
Joined: 4/23/2014
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: DomKen
No. It is not the first time unarmed people have stopped an armed assailant. Only gun nuts refuse to understand that bravery does not come from the barrel of a gun.



The first time? Ever? Really? Considering there are entire styles of martial arts based around defeating an armed opponent, I'm pretty sure you're talking out your ass here Ken.

I'm not discounting them stopping him, but he was already shot through the chest more then once when they did. Ignoring that fact is purely moronic.

(in reply to DomKen)
Profile   Post #: 48
RE: Doctor shoots man at hospital - 7/25/2014 8:43:24 PM   
BamaD


Posts: 20687
Joined: 2/27/2005
Status: offline 		No. It is not the first time unarmed people have stopped an armed assailant. Only gun nuts refuse to understand that bravery does not come from the barrel of a gun.


The reason it took more courage for the doctor is he had been shot, the man was targeting him, where with the other people Plotts had several bullet holes already in him and was no longer a threat.

Since I once backed down a person who was intent on murdering six people behind me when I was not carrying I clearly don't think courage comes from the barrel of a gun.

You on the other hand would clearly be happier if the doctor had also been slashed and killed as well as the "brave unarmed civilians" who if they did tackle him would have suffered casualties as well as long as your gunaphobic agenda was followed.

_____________________________

Government ranges from a necessary evil to an intolerable one. Thomas Paine

People don't believe they can defend themselves because they have guns, they have guns because they believe they can defend themselves.

(in reply to DomKen)
Profile   Post #: 49
RE: Doctor shoots man at hospital - 7/25/2014 9:00:05 PM   
BamaD


Posts: 20687
Joined: 2/27/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: ThirdWheelWanted

quote:

ORIGINAL: DomKen
No. It is not the first time unarmed people have stopped an armed assailant. Only gun nuts refuse to understand that bravery does not come from the barrel of a gun.



The first time? Ever? Really? Considering there are entire styles of martial arts based around defeating an armed opponent, I'm pretty sure you're talking out your ass here Ken.

I'm not discounting them stopping him, but he was already shot through the chest more then once when they did. Ignoring that fact is purely moronic.

That pretty much sums up Kens position on this subject.

_____________________________

Government ranges from a necessary evil to an intolerable one. Thomas Paine

People don't believe they can defend themselves because they have guns, they have guns because they believe they can defend themselves.

(in reply to ThirdWheelWanted)
Profile   Post #: 50
RE: Doctor shoots man at hospital - 7/25/2014 9:35:38 PM   
DomKen


Posts: 19457
Joined: 7/4/2004
From: Chicago, IL
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: ThirdWheelWanted

quote:

ORIGINAL: DomKen
No. It is not the first time unarmed people have stopped an armed assailant. Only gun nuts refuse to understand that bravery does not come from the barrel of a gun.



The first time? Ever? Really? Considering there are entire styles of martial arts based around defeating an armed opponent, I'm pretty sure you're talking out your ass here Ken.

I'm not discounting them stopping him, but he was already shot through the chest more then once when they did. Ignoring that fact is purely moronic.

Try reading the post again. You seem to have missed a word. I bolded it for you.

(in reply to ThirdWheelWanted)
Profile   Post #: 51
RE: Doctor shoots man at hospital - 7/25/2014 9:37:46 PM   
ThirdWheelWanted


Posts: 391
Joined: 4/23/2014
Status: offline 		My mistake, sorry. I did indeed miss a word and put my foot right in my mouth.


< Message edited by ThirdWheelWanted -- 7/25/2014 9:48:29 PM >

(in reply to DomKen)
Profile   Post #: 52
RE: Doctor shoots man at hospital - 7/25/2014 9:48:01 PM   
BamaD


Posts: 20687
Joined: 2/27/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: ThirdWheelWanted

My mistake, sorry.


He still dismisses the fact Plotts was shot and critically wounded before they got to him.

_____________________________

Government ranges from a necessary evil to an intolerable one. Thomas Paine

People don't believe they can defend themselves because they have guns, they have guns because they believe they can defend themselves.

(in reply to ThirdWheelWanted)
Profile   Post #: 53
RE: Doctor shoots man at hospital - 7/25/2014 9:55:23 PM   
ThirdWheelWanted


Posts: 391
Joined: 4/23/2014
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: BamaD


quote:

ORIGINAL: ThirdWheelWanted

My mistake, sorry.


He still dismisses the fact Plotts was shot and critically wounded before they got to him.


That is true, but I did shot my mouth off over the wrong thing.

(in reply to BamaD)
Profile   Post #: 54
RE: Doctor shoots man at hospital - 7/25/2014 10:18:34 PM   
BamaD


Posts: 20687
Joined: 2/27/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: ThirdWheelWanted


quote:

ORIGINAL: BamaD


quote:

ORIGINAL: ThirdWheelWanted

My mistake, sorry.


He still dismisses the fact Plotts was shot and critically wounded before they got to him.


That is true, but I did shot my mouth off over the wrong thing.

I thought that your comment looked a little odd.
Other than misreading I considered that it was a duh everyone knows that.

_____________________________

Government ranges from a necessary evil to an intolerable one. Thomas Paine

People don't believe they can defend themselves because they have guns, they have guns because they believe they can defend themselves.

(in reply to ThirdWheelWanted)
Profile   Post #: 55
RE: Doctor shoots man at hospital - 7/25/2014 10:35:50 PM   
DaddySatyr


Posts: 9381
Joined: 8/29/2011
From: Pittston, Pennsyltucky
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: eulero83

I can't understand, and I'm genuine asking this, how can someone in the usa carry an illegal gun? if someone has criminal records than it's illegal? For what I understood you just go to the sheriff office and he has to issue a permit and than you go in a shop, or even to a private person, and buy one. And by the way... you always talk about this "illegal guns", but can you give any proof all those homicides not connected to crimes involved illegal guns?
That if you take away guns people will arm themself with something else is a fear not a fact, I do not see anyone armed with bats or knives here around, nor in any other country I visited.



And I will gladly answer an honestly asked question (although Bama already did a pretty good job).

Your understanding of how one goes about getting a handgun in this country is a little off.

Please remember that there are 50 states, each with slightly different laws. There are places where it also changes by municipality.

In New York state, it is not easy but a concealed carry permit can be obtained. In New York City, if you're not a cop, prosecutor, prison guard, or diamond dealer, you're probably not going to get a CCP.

In most states that I am aware of, you need to complete a use of deadly force school. Then, you apply for say ... a .40. You get okayed to carry the .40. That doesn't mean that you can carry a .38 or a 9mm.

I am unaware of any state that doesn't require a three day minimum wait to purchase a handgun and I believe some still have 14 day waiting periods.

Yes, I "always" talk about "illegal" guns. As I explained, earlier; it is entirely possible for me to have a CCP for a .40 and go to jail for carrying a 9mm (I believe this may have changed, recently, in Kansas?). So, there are a lot of ways that a gun can be illegal.

If you check statistics, I'm almost positive you'll find that most handguns (and some rifles) used by murdering scumbags are not legally owned or carried by the person using them. That makes the weapon "illegal" (or illegally operated, if you prefer).

Now, I have a question for you: I believe you live in Italy? How many homicides in Italy, last year? How many deaths in Sicily by lupare (lupari , maybe?)?

Please don't even pretend to not know that gun deaths are way down all over Europe but homicide rates aren't.

I'm reminded of a show we had over here in the 70s called: "All In the Family". The main character was a dinosaur whose day was about over but there was an episode where his hippie, flower-child daughter was bemoaning all the gun deaths.

Archie turns to her and says: "You'd be happier if they were pushed out of windows, li'l' girl?"

I think that about sums up the left's gun position.







Screen captures still RULE! Ya feel me?

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Screen captures (and pissing on shadows) still RULE! Ya feel me?

"For that which I love, I will do horrible things"

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Profile   Post #: 56
RE: Doctor shoots man at hospital - 7/26/2014 1:51:02 AM   
eulero83


Posts: 1470
Joined: 11/4/2005
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quote:

ORIGINAL: DaddySatyr


Now, I have a question for you: I believe you live in Italy? How many homicides in Italy, last year? How many deaths in Sicily by lupare (lupari , maybe?)?




in italian it's lupara, but maybe in sicily they call it lupari it sounds like their language but I don't know.
I could not find the statistics for the whole 2013 I have those relative to 2012 and the first nine months of the 2013, the article is in italian use google to traslate: http://www.ilpost.it/2013/12/10/dati-omicidi-italia/.

so in 2012 there had been in italy 528 homicides (murder and manslaughter) and 1327 attempted murders, with a population of 60 milions the rate is 0.88 per 100000 p.
in 2011 they were 553 and 1401 attempts, the historical peak was in 1991 with 1773 homicides and 1959 attempts.
in the first 9 months of 2013 there had been 353 homicides and 939 attempts with a projection of 480 homicides and 1207 attempts.

you also asked about sicily, I could find this report from the national statistic's institute, again it's in italian and I can't copy and paste, but at page 153 you can read 2011 rates each 100000 persons of the regions where organized crime is present: Calabria 2.9, Sicily 1.2, Puglia 1.2, Campania 1, it's andrangheta the most violent organization. The 2009 national rate for homicides connected with organized crime is 0.1 every 100000 people and those perpetrated during another crime (theft or robbery) is 0.05. Homicide rate with female victims was 0.5 and 1.2 for male victims, in those cases 86% of women and 60% of men are killed by someone they know (partner, relative or friend).

in this third article says in 2012 the wapon used was firearm in 43% knives in 21,3% and blunt objects in 9.2%.

(in reply to DaddySatyr)
Profile   Post #: 57
RE: Doctor shoots man at hospital - 7/26/2014 5:30:50 AM   
PeonForHer


Posts: 19612
Joined: 9/27/2008
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quote:

ORIGINAL: TheHeretic

Trolling? I do come here to be amused, Polite, but you'll notice I stick to issues I care about, in a country where I live. That's a hell of a lot more than your trolling, race-baiting bitch ass can claim.



Really? So it was another TheHeretic that just started this thread, then?

http://www.collarchat.com/fb.asp?m=4715858

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Profile   Post #: 58
RE: Doctor shoots man at hospital - 7/26/2014 6:09:04 AM   
tweakabelle


Posts: 7522
Joined: 10/16/2007
From: Sydney Australia
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: PeonForHer


quote:

ORIGINAL: TheHeretic

Trolling? I do come here to be amused, Polite, but you'll notice I stick to issues I care about, in a country where I live. That's a hell of a lot more than your trolling, race-baiting bitch ass can claim.



Really? So it was another TheHeretic that just started this thread, then?

http://www.collarchat.com/fb.asp?m=4715858

It must have been Peon. Might even apply to this thread too .......

A lot of people understand the need to possess guns as a kind of folklore remedy for sexual inadequacy. Of course that couldn't possibly be relevant in TH's case, could it? I mean, that's as close to unimaginable as it comesgets, isn't it?

< Message edited by tweakabelle -- 7/26/2014 6:11:19 AM >

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Profile   Post #: 59
RE: Doctor shoots man at hospital - 7/26/2014 6:12:47 AM   
TheHeretic


Posts: 19100
Joined: 3/25/2007
From: California, USA
Status: offline 		What? That's a little travelogue piece.

_____________________________

If you lose one sense, your other senses are enhanced.
That's why people with no sense of humor have such an inflated sense of self-importance.


(in reply to PeonForHer)
Profile   Post #: 60
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