quote:

ORIGINAL: joether

When I've asked gun owners why they have a firearm, the response is: To protect myself.

Ok...from what?

"Someone that might try to hurt me."

Ok, who is that person? "I don't know, someone..."

Are they tall? Are they short? Are they athletic built? Are they fat? Are they skinny? Are they skilled as CQB? Do they have one or more weapons? Do they have training (military, law enforcement, criminal backgrounds)? Do they have friends? Do those friends have weapons? Are they all attacking from the same direction? Or flanking on both sides? Or hitting on two sides at once? Does the person attacking and/or his/her friends have a vehicle useful in breaching (i.e. construction equipment, armor, or 'ramming vehicle')?

And its usually 'No' across the board. To which I ask....If that is all true, how do you know if that gun will do you any good? I ask them if they have a fully stocked medical kit on par with an 'EMT's bag'? Most of them say 'no'. Even though the sort of things one could get in trouble with, with be helped more by such a bag than without it.

The point is this: We can all argue on fantasy and 'what if' situations from all sides. And there is more than one or two sides to this issue. A firearm is only helpful in 0.01% of possible emergencies. In some emergencies it can bring about even more problems. So we can either deal in 'fantasyland' with all of our pet peeves on the topic of firearms in America; or look at the primary topic of the thread.

My opinion of Bloomberg's ad? Not very well thought out,. I can see the point he's trying to make, in that allowing abusers to obtain firearms is wrong. Yet, the other hand, having a firearm the possible victim's hands in that moment...might...change the final outcome of events.

And I say 'might' from a tactical point of view. Its one think to shoot at paper targets, in an A/C conditioned room, with plenty of time to pick up the gun, load it, and aim down range before firing. Quite a different thing, when picking up the gun, aiming, and firing at a target while your body is in the middle of 'fight or flight' response. That's were the blood drains from your hands and feet towards your chest; firing guns accurately is sharply impaired. The attacker(s) have had time to steady their nerves/rage towards the victim(s) and generally have surprise on their side. The defender(s) are STILL reacting to in the initial onslaught.

What percentage of people actually train for this sort of thing? How their body, mind and emotions react? On the spur of the moment? To handle things like one or more attacker(s) initiating hostiles on the spur of the moment and without possible warning?

Outside of Military and Law Enforcement? less than 1% is my guess.

Having a loaded gun is one thing. Having the will to use it, is quite another. You can train all you want on those paper targets, and it'll mean shit when the real thing happens. Firearm owners are not all psychotic. They will and do try to end the confrontation peacefully while keeping the attackers from hurting them or others further. An therein lies the problem. If they call your bluff, and you do not act, that gun is as meaningless or more than if one didn't have a firearm.

quote:

ORIGINAL: joether

When I've asked gun owners why they have a firearm, the response is: To protect myself.

Ok...from what?

"Someone that might try to hurt me."

Ok, who is that person? "I don't know, someone..."

Are they tall? Are they short? Are they athletic built? Are they fat? Are they skinny? Are they skilled as CQB? Do they have one or more weapons? Do they have training (military, law enforcement, criminal backgrounds)? Do they have friends? Do those friends have weapons? Are they all attacking from the same direction? Or flanking on both sides? Or hitting on two sides at once? Does the person attacking and/or his/her friends have a vehicle useful in breaching (i.e. construction equipment, armor, or 'ramming vehicle')?

And its usually 'No' across the board. To which I ask....If that is all true, how do you know if that gun will do you any good? I ask them if they have a fully stocked medical kit on par with an 'EMT's bag'? Most of them say 'no'. Even though the sort of things one could get in trouble with, with be helped more by such a bag than without it.

The point is this: We can all argue on fantasy and 'what if' situations from all sides. And there is more than one or two sides to this issue. A firearm is only helpful in 0.01% of possible emergencies. In some emergencies it can bring about even more problems. So we can either deal in 'fantasyland' with all of our pet peeves on the topic of firearms in America; or look at the primary topic of the thread.

My opinion of Bloomberg's ad? Not very well thought out,. I can see the point he's trying to make, in that allowing abusers to obtain firearms is wrong. Yet, the other hand, having a firearm the possible victim's hands in that moment...might...change the final outcome of events.

And I say 'might' from a tactical point of view. Its one think to shoot at paper targets, in an A/C conditioned room, with plenty of time to pick up the gun, load it, and aim down range before firing. Quite a different thing, when picking up the gun, aiming, and firing at a target while your body is in the middle of 'fight or flight' response. That's were the blood drains from your hands and feet towards your chest; firing guns accurately is sharply impaired. The attacker(s) have had time to steady their nerves/rage towards the victim(s) and generally have surprise on their side. The defender(s) are STILL reacting to in the initial onslaught.

What percentage of people actually train for this sort of thing? How their body, mind and emotions react? On the spur of the moment? To handle things like one or more attacker(s) initiating hostiles on the spur of the moment and without possible warning?

Outside of Military and Law Enforcement? less than 1% is my guess.

Having a loaded gun is one thing. Having the will to use it, is quite another. You can train all you want on those paper targets, and it'll mean shit when the real thing happens. Firearm owners are not all psychotic. They will and do try to end the confrontation peacefully while keeping the attackers from hurting them or others further. An therein lies the problem. If they call your bluff, and you do not act, that gun is as meaningless or more than if one didn't have a firearm.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Lucylastic

By the way.....its great that the gun rights people missed the whole point of the ad...which is intended to show the dangers of guns in the hands of domestic abusers,.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Sanity

quote:

ORIGINAL: Lucylastic

By the way.....its great that the gun rights people missed the whole point of the ad...which is intended to show the dangers of guns in the hands of domestic abusers,.

No, its you who misses the point

Again, a man typically doesn't need a gun to do serious harm to a woman, whereas women could often use some help defending themselves while under assault

If leftists are successful in their war on women, womens best method of defense will be taken away from them

quote:

ORIGINAL: Sanity

quote:

ORIGINAL: Lucylastic

By the way.....its great that the gun rights people missed the whole point of the ad...which is intended to show the dangers of guns in the hands of domestic abusers,.

No, its you who misses the point

Again, a man typically doesn't need a gun to do serious harm to a woman, whereas women could often use some help defending themselves while under assault

If leftists are successful in their war on women, womens best method of defense will be taken away from them

quote:

ORIGINAL: Sanity

quote:

ORIGINAL: Lucylastic

By the way.....its great that the gun rights people missed the whole point of the ad...which is intended to show the dangers of guns in the hands of domestic abusers,.

No, its you who misses the point

Again, a man typically doesn't need a gun to do serious harm to a woman, whereas women could often use some help defending themselves while under assault

If leftists are successful in their war on women, womens best method of defense will be taken away from them

quote:

ORIGINAL: Lucylastic

FAYETTEVILLE, N.C. (AP) — An angry husband sprayed his father-in-law's house with bullets from two 30-round magazines, killing two people, after his wife ran to the home during an argument Wednesday.

The man later exchanged gunfire with authorities and died of a gunshot wound after hitting several deputies and a state trooper, Cumberland County Sheriff Earl "Moose" Butler said.

"He just went wild," Butler said of the shooter. "I mean, shooting at random. He just turned it loose, that automatic. He unloaded it every time I think he pulled up there" in front of the victims' house.

The violence began before 7 a.m., when 41-year-old Valerie Michaelis called 911 for help, authorities said. Michaelis and her husband, Andrew, were arguing and she said he was holding her at gunpoint.

Investigators said Valerie Michaelis got the gun from her husband, who then pursued her with a knife. She fled to her father's house.

Seven people were in the house when authorities say Andrew Michaelis drove by in his truck and discharged a 30-round magazine from what authorities described as an assault rifle. He killed two people: his wife's father, 61-year-old Gary Simpson, and Simpson's 10-year-old grandson, Trekwan Covington. Among those in the house was Ryan Michaelis, 13, who was there "because of problems in the home," Butler said.

His father knew Ryan was in the Simpson home, the sheriff said.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2014/07/30/north-carolina-mobile-home-shooting_n_5634510.html?utm_hp_ref=crime

quote:

ORIGINAL: subrosaDom

quote:

ORIGINAL: Lucylastic

FAYETTEVILLE, N.C. (AP) — An angry husband sprayed his father-in-law's house with bullets from two 30-round magazines, killing two people, after his wife ran to the home during an argument Wednesday.

The man later exchanged gunfire with authorities and died of a gunshot wound after hitting several deputies and a state trooper, Cumberland County Sheriff Earl "Moose" Butler said.

"He just went wild," Butler said of the shooter. "I mean, shooting at random. He just turned it loose, that automatic. He unloaded it every time I think he pulled up there" in front of the victims' house.

The violence began before 7 a.m., when 41-year-old Valerie Michaelis called 911 for help, authorities said. Michaelis and her husband, Andrew, were arguing and she said he was holding her at gunpoint.

Investigators said Valerie Michaelis got the gun from her husband, who then pursued her with a knife. She fled to her father's house.

Seven people were in the house when authorities say Andrew Michaelis drove by in his truck and discharged a 30-round magazine from what authorities described as an assault rifle. He killed two people: his wife's father, 61-year-old Gary Simpson, and Simpson's 10-year-old grandson, Trekwan Covington. Among those in the house was Ryan Michaelis, 13, who was there "because of problems in the home," Butler said.

His father knew Ryan was in the Simpson home, the sheriff said.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2014/07/30/north-carolina-mobile-home-shooting_n_5634510.html?utm_hp_ref=crime

All we have to do is outlaw guns in the hands of domestic abusers. Just like we have outlawed guns in the hands of felons. Because it will work just as well.

Leftists have trouble understanding that criminals do not obey the law any more than Kim Jong-un follows international norms for human rights.

quote:

ORIGINAL: freedomdwarf1


gundiot

quote:

ORIGINAL: Lucylastic

http://www.washingtonpost.com/national/national-roundup-family-of-5-including-children-found-dead-in-maine-apartment/2014/07/27/f46b22ea-15d3-11e4-9e3b-7f2f110c6265_story.html

MAINE
Gun in apartment killed family of five
A family of five, including three children, were found shot to death Sunday inside a southern Maine apartment, authorities said.

Investigators said a gun was found near one of the bodies, and it appeared that no one outside the family was responsible for the shootings.

State police Sgt. Chris Harriman said murder-suicide is one of the scenarios being investigated but that a determination will be made by the state medical examiner’s office.
Authorities did not release the names of the family but said the parents were in their 30s and the children were ages 4, 7 and 12.

quote:

ORIGINAL: TheHeretic
The gun didn't kill that family, Lucy. The father did. It's called family annihilation. Horrible thing. In the UK, the leading methods are stabbings and carbon monoxide poisoning. A well known Canadian who did it to his family strangled them.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Sanity

quote:

ORIGINAL: TheHeretic
The gun didn't kill that family, Lucy. The father did. It's called family annihilation. Horrible thing. In the UK, the leading methods are stabbings and carbon monoxide poisoning. A well known Canadian who did it to his family strangled them.

Women seem to like using cars and large bodies of water, poisons and bathtubs for the deed

quote:

ORIGINAL: joether

When I've asked gun owners why they have a firearm, the response is: To protect myself.

quote:

ORIGINAL: TheHeretic

quote:

ORIGINAL: joether

When I've asked gun owners why they have a firearm, the response is: To protect myself.

And your gundiot's response is to leap to all sorts of assumptions about what that means. You really are a useless fuck, Joether. How many times have you not answered the question about automatically assuming that means another human being? More times than you have actually asked your question of a person in realtime I'd bet.

My family and home are far better protected against crime by location and a couple big dogs than they are by the shotgun, but it doesn't mean I don't keep that excellent tool for the job in a place where we can get to it in a hurry, should the need arise.

Just FYI, old TV sets, and plastic bottles full of water, are a hell of a lot more fun to plink at than paper targets.

quote:

ORIGINAL: subrosaDom

quote:

ORIGINAL: Lucylastic

FAYETTEVILLE, N.C. (AP) — An angry husband sprayed his father-in-law's house with bullets from two 30-round magazines, killing two people, after his wife ran to the home during an argument Wednesday.

The man later exchanged gunfire with authorities and died of a gunshot wound after hitting several deputies and a state trooper, Cumberland County Sheriff Earl "Moose" Butler said.

"He just went wild," Butler said of the shooter. "I mean, shooting at random. He just turned it loose, that automatic. He unloaded it every time I think he pulled up there" in front of the victims' house.

The violence began before 7 a.m., when 41-year-old Valerie Michaelis called 911 for help, authorities said. Michaelis and her husband, Andrew, were arguing and she said he was holding her at gunpoint.

Investigators said Valerie Michaelis got the gun from her husband, who then pursued her with a knife. She fled to her father's house.

Seven people were in the house when authorities say Andrew Michaelis drove by in his truck and discharged a 30-round magazine from what authorities described as an assault rifle. He killed two people: his wife's father, 61-year-old Gary Simpson, and Simpson's 10-year-old grandson, Trekwan Covington. Among those in the house was Ryan Michaelis, 13, who was there "because of problems in the home," Butler said.

His father knew Ryan was in the Simpson home, the sheriff said.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2014/07/30/north-carolina-mobile-home-shooting_n_5634510.html?utm_hp_ref=crime

All we have to do is outlaw guns in the hands of domestic abusers. Just like we have outlawed guns in the hands of felons. Because it will work just as well.

Leftists have trouble understanding that criminals do not obey the law any more than Kim Jong-un follows international norms for human rights.

quote:

ORIGINAL: BamaD

quote:

ORIGINAL: Sanity

quote:

ORIGINAL: Lucylastic

By the way.....its great that the gun rights people missed the whole point of the ad...which is intended to show the dangers of guns in the hands of domestic abusers,.

No, its you who misses the point

Again, a man typically doesn't need a gun to do serious harm to a woman, whereas women could often use some help defending themselves while under assault

If leftists are successful in their war on women, womens best method of defense will be taken away from them

The woman in the ad had no chance with a gun she would have had some chance.