Collarspace Discussion Forums


Home  Login  Search 

RE: Must have used a knife


View related threads: (in this forum | in all forums)

Logged in as: Guest
 
All Forums >> [Community Discussions] >> Dungeon of Political and Religious Discussion >> RE: Must have used a knife Page: <<   < prev  8 9 [10] 11 12   next >   >>
Login
Message << Older Topic   Newer Topic >>
RE: Must have used a knife - 8/10/2014 3:57:17 PM   
DomKen


Posts: 19457
Joined: 7/4/2004
From: Chicago, IL
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: BamaD


quote:

ORIGINAL: DomKen

quote:

ORIGINAL: BamaD

quote:

ORIGINAL: DomKen

quote:

ORIGINAL: BamaD

FR

www.saf.org/LawReviews/KleckAndGertz1.htm

404 page not found
Didn't you try and verify the link before posting it?
But the Kleck and Gertz study isn't of mass shootings so you simply wrong.
It is of so called defensive gun use and it is self reported through a phone survey so no one knows if any of those "events" actually even happened. It is a terribly flawed survey that produced results so completely at odds with all other data that every one but the gun nuts ignores it.

I had used it before and it worked.
It is only at odds with the Brady bunch and the Bloomberg liars.
Kleck and Gertz started out to prove that gun ownership doesn't help.
The only argument you seem to have is to attack any who don't say what you want them to.
Your claim that there have only been five cases of armed citizens stopping attacks is silly. I can beat that number off the top of my head.

No they did not. They were always gun rights guys. You need to get your facts straight.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gary_Kleck


Not what he says.

The facts are the facts. He has always done research in favor of gun rights never against. You can check his resume as easily as I did.

(in reply to BamaD)
Profile   Post #: 181
RE: Must have used a knife - 8/10/2014 7:49:27 PM   
Kirata


Posts: 15477
Joined: 2/11/2006
From: USA
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: DomKen

No they did not. They were always gun rights guys. You need to get your facts straight.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gary_Kleck

Well here's a fact for you. There is nothing at that link to support your claim.

K.


(in reply to DomKen)
Profile   Post #: 182
RE: Must have used a knife - 8/10/2014 8:33:21 PM   
BamaD


Posts: 20687
Joined: 2/27/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Kirata


quote:

ORIGINAL: DomKen

No they did not. They were always gun rights guys. You need to get your facts straight.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gary_Kleck

Well here's a fact for you. There is nothing at that link to support your claim.

K.



When did that stop him. According to Kleck he started out to prove how dangerous it was to carry and his research changed his mind. Thus that study and those that followed ended up with a pro-gun result. His mind was made up by the research as opposed to Brady and Bloomberg who make up the results and throw out any facts that don't support it.

_____________________________

Government ranges from a necessary evil to an intolerable one. Thomas Paine

People don't believe they can defend themselves because they have guns, they have guns because they believe they can defend themselves.

(in reply to Kirata)
Profile   Post #: 183
RE: Must have used a knife - 8/11/2014 1:28:55 AM   
DomKen


Posts: 19457
Joined: 7/4/2004
From: Chicago, IL
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Kirata


quote:

ORIGINAL: DomKen

No they did not. They were always gun rights guys. You need to get your facts straight.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gary_Kleck

Well here's a fact for you. There is nothing at that link to support your claim.


lying as always
it includes the links to some of his papers preceding the study in question (if you had bothered to follow the references) and it includes a link to the FSU faculty page where both Kleck and Gertz work. There you can check out their entire resume's which conclusively proves the point. But you didn't do any of that or you wouldn't of made such a monumentally stupid claim.

(in reply to Kirata)
Profile   Post #: 184
RE: Must have used a knife - 8/11/2014 2:21:16 AM   
Kirata


Posts: 15477
Joined: 2/11/2006
From: USA
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: DomKen
quote:

ORIGINAL: Kirata
quote:

ORIGINAL: DomKen

No they did not. They were always gun rights guys. You need to get your facts straight.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gary_Kleck

Well here's a fact for you. There is nothing at that link to support your claim.

lying as always
it includes the links to some of his papers preceding the study in question (if you had bothered to follow the references) and it includes a link to the FSU faculty page where both Kleck and Gertz work. There you can check out their entire resume's which conclusively proves the point. But you didn't do any of that or you wouldn't of made such a monumentally stupid claim.

There is nothing in their CVs that says anything whatsoever about their attitudes or philosophy, let alone anything that proves "they were always gun rights guys" from the start. You're just making shit up because you can't deal with their findings.

K.


< Message edited by Kirata -- 8/11/2014 2:35:09 AM >

(in reply to DomKen)
Profile   Post #: 185
RE: Must have used a knife - 8/11/2014 10:31:53 AM   
DomKen


Posts: 19457
Joined: 7/4/2004
From: Chicago, IL
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Kirata


quote:

ORIGINAL: DomKen
quote:

ORIGINAL: Kirata
quote:

ORIGINAL: DomKen

No they did not. They were always gun rights guys. You need to get your facts straight.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gary_Kleck

Well here's a fact for you. There is nothing at that link to support your claim.

lying as always
it includes the links to some of his papers preceding the study in question (if you had bothered to follow the references) and it includes a link to the FSU faculty page where both Kleck and Gertz work. There you can check out their entire resume's which conclusively proves the point. But you didn't do any of that or you wouldn't of made such a monumentally stupid claim.

There is nothing in their CVs that says anything whatsoever about their attitudes or philosophy, let alone anything that proves "they were always gun rights guys" from the start. You're just making shit up because you can't deal with their findings.

Weird how Kleck is supposed to have turned around on guns after the paper in question but had published several pro gun papers before it. But you ignored that fact in order to claim things that simply aren't correct as usual.

For instance, and because rubbing your lies into your face is so much fun, Kleck authored this book
http://www.amazon.com/Point-Blank-Guns-Violence-America/dp/020230762X
3 years before the survey in question. But it also is very pro gun use. shocking.

Then a further 3 years earlier we have this
http://www.jstor.org/discover/10.2307/800663?uid=3739656&uid=2129&uid=2&uid=70&uid=4&uid=3739256&sid=21104497533337
Which is also blatantly pro gun use.

Then 5 years before that
http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1111/j.1467-9930.1983.tb00300.x/abstract
Another anti gun control paper.

I think that is enough to prove my point.

(in reply to Kirata)
Profile   Post #: 186
RE: Must have used a knife - 8/11/2014 12:11:47 PM   
BamaD


Posts: 20687
Joined: 2/27/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: DomKen

quote:

ORIGINAL: Kirata


quote:

ORIGINAL: DomKen
quote:

ORIGINAL: Kirata
quote:

ORIGINAL: DomKen

No they did not. They were always gun rights guys. You need to get your facts straight.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gary_Kleck

Well here's a fact for you. There is nothing at that link to support your claim.

lying as always
it includes the links to some of his papers preceding the study in question (if you had bothered to follow the references) and it includes a link to the FSU faculty page where both Kleck and Gertz work. There you can check out their entire resume's which conclusively proves the point. But you didn't do any of that or you wouldn't of made such a monumentally stupid claim.

There is nothing in their CVs that says anything whatsoever about their attitudes or philosophy, let alone anything that proves "they were always gun rights guys" from the start. You're just making shit up because you can't deal with their findings.

Weird how Kleck is supposed to have turned around on guns after the paper in question but had published several pro gun papers before it. But you ignored that fact in order to claim things that simply aren't correct as usual.

For instance, and because rubbing your lies into your face is so much fun, Kleck authored this book
http://www.amazon.com/Point-Blank-Guns-Violence-America/dp/020230762X
3 years before the survey in question. But it also is very pro gun use. shocking.

Then a further 3 years earlier we have this
http://www.jstor.org/discover/10.2307/800663?uid=3739656&uid=2129&uid=2&uid=70&uid=4&uid=3739256&sid=21104497533337
Which is also blatantly pro gun use.

Then 5 years before that
http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1111/j.1467-9930.1983.tb00300.x/abstract
Another anti gun control paper.

I think that is enough to prove my point.

His first paper turned him around.

_____________________________

Government ranges from a necessary evil to an intolerable one. Thomas Paine

People don't believe they can defend themselves because they have guns, they have guns because they believe they can defend themselves.

(in reply to DomKen)
Profile   Post #: 187
RE: Must have used a knife - 8/11/2014 3:45:39 PM   
DomKen


Posts: 19457
Joined: 7/4/2004
From: Chicago, IL
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: BamaD


quote:

ORIGINAL: DomKen

quote:

ORIGINAL: Kirata


quote:

ORIGINAL: DomKen
quote:

ORIGINAL: Kirata
quote:

ORIGINAL: DomKen

No they did not. They were always gun rights guys. You need to get your facts straight.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gary_Kleck

Well here's a fact for you. There is nothing at that link to support your claim.

lying as always
it includes the links to some of his papers preceding the study in question (if you had bothered to follow the references) and it includes a link to the FSU faculty page where both Kleck and Gertz work. There you can check out their entire resume's which conclusively proves the point. But you didn't do any of that or you wouldn't of made such a monumentally stupid claim.

There is nothing in their CVs that says anything whatsoever about their attitudes or philosophy, let alone anything that proves "they were always gun rights guys" from the start. You're just making shit up because you can't deal with their findings.

Weird how Kleck is supposed to have turned around on guns after the paper in question but had published several pro gun papers before it. But you ignored that fact in order to claim things that simply aren't correct as usual.

For instance, and because rubbing your lies into your face is so much fun, Kleck authored this book
http://www.amazon.com/Point-Blank-Guns-Violence-America/dp/020230762X
3 years before the survey in question. But it also is very pro gun use. shocking.

Then a further 3 years earlier we have this
http://www.jstor.org/discover/10.2307/800663?uid=3739656&uid=2129&uid=2&uid=70&uid=4&uid=3739256&sid=21104497533337
Which is also blatantly pro gun use.

Then 5 years before that
http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1111/j.1467-9930.1983.tb00300.x/abstract
Another anti gun control paper.

I think that is enough to prove my point.

His first paper turned him around.

The one on capital punishment? That seems an odd one to change someone's mind on gun control. You might want grasp at some other straw.
I can't  get the whole thing but he seems to argue that the murder rate increases the gun ownership rate which increases the murder rate and vice versa.
https://www.ncjrs.gov/App/publications/abstract.aspx?ID=60398

(in reply to BamaD)
Profile   Post #: 188
RE: Must have used a knife - 8/11/2014 4:02:53 PM   
BamaD


Posts: 20687
Joined: 2/27/2005
Status: offline 		The one on capital punishment? That seems an odd one to change someone's mind on gun control. You might want grasp at some other straw.
I can't get the whole thing but he seems to argue that the murder rate increases the gun ownership rate which increases the murder rate and vice versa.

Thank you for this info. You finally admit that he started out anti gun and did not become pro gun till he researched a paper on guns. The great thing about debating is that eventually you will prove I am right.

< Message edited by BamaD -- 8/11/2014 4:28:19 PM >

_____________________________

Government ranges from a necessary evil to an intolerable one. Thomas Paine

People don't believe they can defend themselves because they have guns, they have guns because they believe they can defend themselves.

(in reply to DomKen)
Profile   Post #: 189
RE: Must have used a knife - 8/11/2014 4:31:39 PM   
Kirata


Posts: 15477
Joined: 2/11/2006
From: USA
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: DomKen

Weird how Kleck is supposed to have turned around on guns after the paper in question but had published several pro gun papers before it.

You're making shit up. Nobody claimed that their views originated with the paper that was mis-linked. What is under dispute is your claim that they were "always gun rights guys," with the attendant implication of bias. But you have presented nothing that substantiates either claim, and when you dismiss their work as "blatantly pro gun use" and "anti gun control," instead of confronting the findings and facing the data, the only bias in evidence is your own.

K.


< Message edited by Kirata -- 8/11/2014 4:34:56 PM >

(in reply to DomKen)
Profile   Post #: 190
RE: Must have used a knife - 8/11/2014 5:29:03 PM   
DomKen


Posts: 19457
Joined: 7/4/2004
From: Chicago, IL
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: BamaD

The one on capital punishment? That seems an odd one to change someone's mind on gun control. You might want grasp at some other straw.
I can't get the whole thing but he seems to argue that the murder rate increases the gun ownership rate which increases the murder rate and vice versa.

Thank you for this info. You finally admit that he started out anti gun and did not become pro gun till he researched a paper on guns. The great thing about debating is that eventually you will prove I am right.

No. That article isn't anti gun. He doesn't argue for more gun control and does argue that more gun ownership results in a deterrent effect.

(in reply to BamaD)
Profile   Post #: 191
RE: Must have used a knife - 8/11/2014 5:31:43 PM   
DomKen


Posts: 19457
Joined: 7/4/2004
From: Chicago, IL
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Kirata


quote:

ORIGINAL: DomKen

Weird how Kleck is supposed to have turned around on guns after the paper in question but had published several pro gun papers before it.

You're making shit up. Nobody claimed that their views originated with the paper that was mis-linked. What is under dispute is your claim that they were "always gun rights guys," with the attendant implication of bias. But you have presented nothing that substantiates either claim, and when you dismiss their work as "blatantly pro gun use" and "anti gun control," instead of confronting the findings and facing the data, the only bias in evidence is your own.

Since they have only co-authored one paper and the claim is they were anti gun before some research changed their minds then the only possible conclusion is that it is this survey that is supposed to be the one that changed their minds. Despite the indisputable fact that both have a record of pro gun research before this.

(in reply to Kirata)
Profile   Post #: 192
RE: Must have used a knife - 8/11/2014 5:52:15 PM   
Kirata


Posts: 15477
Joined: 2/11/2006
From: USA
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: DomKen

both have a record of pro gun research before this.

Ah, "pro gun research." Well I suppose that would cover any research that calls into question your lurid imaginings about reality. But I don't see why you portray it as a fault. You're a lunatic who makes shit up. You need to get used to the feedback.

K.


(in reply to DomKen)
Profile   Post #: 193
RE: Must have used a knife - 8/11/2014 5:54:11 PM   
BamaD


Posts: 20687
Joined: 2/27/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: DomKen

quote:

ORIGINAL: BamaD

The one on capital punishment? That seems an odd one to change someone's mind on gun control. You might want grasp at some other straw.
I can't get the whole thing but he seems to argue that the murder rate increases the gun ownership rate which increases the murder rate and vice versa.

Thank you for this info. You finally admit that he started out anti gun and did not become pro gun till he researched a paper on guns. The great thing about debating is that eventually you will prove I am right.

No. That article isn't anti gun. He doesn't argue for more gun control and does argue that more gun ownership results in a deterrent effect.

Then you can't write in English as you stated that he said that gun ownership causes a rise in the murder rate.

_____________________________

Government ranges from a necessary evil to an intolerable one. Thomas Paine

People don't believe they can defend themselves because they have guns, they have guns because they believe they can defend themselves.

(in reply to DomKen)
Profile   Post #: 194
RE: Must have used a knife - 8/11/2014 6:03:20 PM   
Kirata


Posts: 15477
Joined: 2/11/2006
From: USA
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: DomKen

He doesn't argue for more gun control and does argue that more gun ownership results in a deterrent effect.

From the Abstract...

EVIDENCE WAS FOUND TO SUPPORT THE HYPOTHESIS CONCERNING A CIRCULARITY OF GUN OWNERSHIP AND HOMICIDE, WITH HOMICIDE PUSHING UP GUN OWNERSHIP AND GUN OWNERSHIP INCREASING HOMICIDE.

On what planet is that arguing more gun ownership results in a deterrent effect.

K.

(in reply to DomKen)
Profile   Post #: 195
RE: Must have used a knife - 8/11/2014 6:06:38 PM   
BamaD


Posts: 20687
Joined: 2/27/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Kirata


quote:

ORIGINAL: DomKen

He doesn't argue for more gun control and does argue that more gun ownership results in a deterrent effect.

From the Abstract...

EVIDENCE WAS FOUND TO SUPPORT THE HYPOTHESIS CONCERNING A CIRCULARITY OF GUN OWNERSHIP AND HOMICIDE, WITH HOMICIDE PUSHING UP GUN OWNERSHIP AND GUN OWNERSHIP INCREASING HOMICIDE.

On what planet is that arguing more gun ownership results in a deterrent effect.

K.


On Kens planet when it means that when Kleck started actually researching guns he changed his view. And I want to thank Ken again for proving our point.

_____________________________

Government ranges from a necessary evil to an intolerable one. Thomas Paine

People don't believe they can defend themselves because they have guns, they have guns because they believe they can defend themselves.

(in reply to Kirata)
Profile   Post #: 196
RE: Must have used a knife - 8/11/2014 9:55:25 PM   
DomKen


Posts: 19457
Joined: 7/4/2004
From: Chicago, IL
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: BamaD


quote:

ORIGINAL: DomKen

quote:

ORIGINAL: BamaD

The one on capital punishment? That seems an odd one to change someone's mind on gun control. You might want grasp at some other straw.
I can't get the whole thing but he seems to argue that the murder rate increases the gun ownership rate which increases the murder rate and vice versa.

Thank you for this info. You finally admit that he started out anti gun and did not become pro gun till he researched a paper on guns. The great thing about debating is that eventually you will prove I am right.

No. That article isn't anti gun. He doesn't argue for more gun control and does argue that more gun ownership results in a deterrent effect.

Then you can't write in English as you stated that he said that gun ownership causes a rise in the murder rate.

So? Did you read the paper? He doesn't call for restricting access to guns. The man's CV is pro gun from day one.

(in reply to BamaD)
Profile   Post #: 197
RE: Must have used a knife - 8/11/2014 9:56:25 PM   
DomKen


Posts: 19457
Joined: 7/4/2004
From: Chicago, IL
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Kirata


quote:

ORIGINAL: DomKen

He doesn't argue for more gun control and does argue that more gun ownership results in a deterrent effect.

From the Abstract...

EVIDENCE WAS FOUND TO SUPPORT THE HYPOTHESIS CONCERNING A CIRCULARITY OF GUN OWNERSHIP AND HOMICIDE, WITH HOMICIDE PUSHING UP GUN OWNERSHIP AND GUN OWNERSHIP INCREASING HOMICIDE.

On what planet is that arguing more gun ownership results in a deterrent effect.

You shouldn't just read the abstract. It's a 30 page paper.

(in reply to Kirata)
Profile   Post #: 198
RE: Must have used a knife - 8/11/2014 9:58:17 PM   
Kirata


Posts: 15477
Joined: 2/11/2006
From: USA
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: DomKen
quote:

ORIGINAL: Kirata
quote:

ORIGINAL: DomKen

He doesn't argue for more gun control and does argue that more gun ownership results in a deterrent effect.

From the Abstract...

EVIDENCE WAS FOUND TO SUPPORT THE HYPOTHESIS CONCERNING A CIRCULARITY OF GUN OWNERSHIP AND HOMICIDE, WITH HOMICIDE PUSHING UP GUN OWNERSHIP AND GUN OWNERSHIP INCREASING HOMICIDE.

On what planet is that arguing more gun ownership results in a deterrent effect.

You shouldn't just read the abstract. It's a 30 page paper.


You shouldn't make shit up.

K.

(in reply to DomKen)
Profile   Post #: 199
RE: Must have used a knife - 8/11/2014 10:01:36 PM   
DomKen


Posts: 19457
Joined: 7/4/2004
From: Chicago, IL
Status: offline 		But while making fun of you two has been fun back to the original topic,
BamaD tried to pass off this lie
quote:

It proves that gun free zones don't make a difference by your own words.
And gun welcome zones have less casualties as per a study I have already posted on another thread

The study does not exist. He made it up.

(in reply to DomKen)
Profile   Post #: 200
Page:   <<   < prev  8 9 [10] 11 12   next >   >>
All Forums >> [Community Discussions] >> Dungeon of Political and Religious Discussion >> RE: Must have used a knife Page: <<   < prev  8 9 [10] 11 12   next >   >>
Jump to:





New Messages No New Messages
Hot Topic w/ New Messages Hot Topic w/o New Messages
Locked w/ New Messages Locked w/o New Messages
 Post New Thread
 Reply to Message
 Post New Poll
 Submit Vote
 Delete My Own Post
 Delete My Own Thread
 Rate Posts




Collarchat.com © 2025
Terms of Service Privacy Policy Spam Policy

0.109