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RE: Must have used a knife - 8/21/2014 1:24:00 PM   
BamaD


Posts: 20687
Joined: 2/27/2005
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quote:

ORIGINAL: GotSteel

quote:

ORIGINAL: joether
Please show me your stats for the high iqs of muggers and gas station holdup me.


That's not how it works:

quote:

ORIGINAL: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Philosophic_burden_of_proof
The philosophical burden of proof or onus (probandi) is the obligation on a party in an epistemic dispute to provide sufficient warrant for their position.



He made the reference to smart criminals holding up gas stations, so by your rules it is a logical fallacy till he proves it.

_____________________________

Government ranges from a necessary evil to an intolerable one. Thomas Paine

People don't believe they can defend themselves because they have guns, they have guns because they believe they can defend themselves.

(in reply to GotSteel)
Profile   Post #: 301
RE: Must have used a knife - 8/22/2014 6:17:52 PM   
GotSteel


Posts: 5871
Joined: 2/19/2008
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: BamaD
He made the reference to smart criminals holding up gas stations, so by your rules it is a logical fallacy till he proves it.


I saw him expressing skepticism at your assertion, which is immensely reasonable you haven't met your burden of proof. His asking you to back up your assertions isn't actually the same as making a positive claim that bank robbers are smart (or some such) in which case yes the burden would be on him to support his claim.

P.S. I did see some unsupported/poorly supported claims by him on pages 2 and 4 but not in regards to IQ, if he's actually made such a claim in this thread I'm not finding it.

< Message edited by GotSteel -- 8/22/2014 6:18:57 PM >

(in reply to BamaD)
Profile   Post #: 302
RE: Must have used a knife - 8/22/2014 6:40:44 PM   
BamaD


Posts: 20687
Joined: 2/27/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: GotSteel

quote:

ORIGINAL: BamaD
He made the reference to smart criminals holding up gas stations, so by your rules it is a logical fallacy till he proves it.


I saw him expressing skepticism at your assertion, which is immensely reasonable you haven't met your burden of proof. His asking you to back up your assertions isn't actually the same as making a positive claim that bank robbers are smart (or some such) in which case yes the burden would be on him to support his claim.

P.S. I did see some unsupported/poorly supported claims by him on pages 2 and 4 but not in regards to IQ, if he's actually made such a claim in this thread I'm not finding it.

You need to read more he made a reference to smart criminals. Which flies in the face of anything we have seen, even you should understand that. And no he did not use the term IQ. You still suffer from the delusion that you are the final judge of what does and does not need to be proven.
I will concede this by his standard people who hold up gas stations may be smart, but I have a higher standard for smart than knowing which way to run.

< Message edited by BamaD -- 8/22/2014 6:50:07 PM >


_____________________________

Government ranges from a necessary evil to an intolerable one. Thomas Paine

People don't believe they can defend themselves because they have guns, they have guns because they believe they can defend themselves.

(in reply to GotSteel)
Profile   Post #: 303
RE: Must have used a knife - 8/23/2014 2:07:44 AM   
joether


Posts: 5195
Joined: 7/24/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: BamaD
quote:

ORIGINAL: GotSteel
quote:

ORIGINAL: BamaD
He made the reference to smart criminals holding up gas stations, so by your rules it is a logical fallacy till he proves it.


I saw him expressing skepticism at your assertion, which is immensely reasonable you haven't met your burden of proof. His asking you to back up your assertions isn't actually the same as making a positive claim that bank robbers are smart (or some such) in which case yes the burden would be on him to support his claim.

P.S. I did see some unsupported/poorly supported claims by him on pages 2 and 4 but not in regards to IQ, if he's actually made such a claim in this thread I'm not finding it.

You need to read more he made a reference to smart criminals. Which flies in the face of anything we have seen, even you should understand that. And no he did not use the term IQ. You still suffer from the delusion that you are the final judge of what does and does not need to be proven.
I will concede this by his standard people who hold up gas stations may be smart, but I have a higher standard for smart than knowing which way to run.


Oh that's right, BamaD lives in this fantasy world in which there are no smart criminals. That he can outsmart all of them......'forgot'....

Tell me, BamaD, how did 19 guys manage to wreck three really large buildings and cause a number of other problems on September 11, 2001? Must not have been a mastermind behind it all, since, according to your 'logic', there are no smart criminals.

The smart criminals do not usually get catch due to stupid or foolish mistakes. But they being human, are still open to making mistakes here and there. There are many murders whom took the police a while to track down (i.e. serial killers). I guess loading a Ryder rental truck with fertilizer, gas, and remote detonator, parking before a federal building in Oklahoma City, ....had....to have been done by a pair of idiots, right?

So could a smart criminal rob a gas station? Or an athletic/well trained and smart criminal can not mug people? Or are you of the opinion that if someone is physically strong, they are an idiot and vise versa?




(in reply to BamaD)
Profile   Post #: 304
RE: Must have used a knife - 8/23/2014 3:21:19 AM   
Kirata


Posts: 15477
Joined: 2/11/2006
From: USA
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: BamaD

The smart ones aren't muggers and don't hold up gas stations.

quote:

ORIGINAL: joether

BamaD lives in this fantasy world in which there are no smart criminals.


K.

(in reply to joether)
Profile   Post #: 305
RE: Must have used a knife - 8/23/2014 3:28:20 AM   
ThirdWheelWanted


Posts: 391
Joined: 4/23/2014
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: joether

Oh that's right, BamaD lives in this fantasy world in which there are no smart criminals. That he can outsmart all of them......'forgot'....

Tell me, BamaD, how did 19 guys manage to wreck three really large buildings and cause a number of other problems on September 11, 2001? Must not have been a mastermind behind it all, since, according to your 'logic', there are no smart criminals.

The smart criminals do not usually get catch due to stupid or foolish mistakes. But they being human, are still open to making mistakes here and there. There are many murders whom took the police a while to track down (i.e. serial killers). I guess loading a Ryder rental truck with fertilizer, gas, and remote detonator, parking before a federal building in Oklahoma City, ....had....to have been done by a pair of idiots, right?

So could a smart criminal rob a gas station? Or an athletic/well trained and smart criminal can not mug people? Or are you of the opinion that if someone is physically strong, they are an idiot and vise versa?


Maybe I'm wrong, but isn't twisting around a thread about small-time stick-up robbers and comparing them to a well funded and planned terrorist strike a bit of a straw-man?

Serial killers are sometimes fairly smart, but the biggest reason they're not usually caught right away is that they don't have the typical connections to their victims. When there's a murder, the first person looked at is the spouse or significant other. Then family, friends, etc. Usually, the murderer can be found within their circle of acquaintances. With a serial killer, the connection is often only in their minds, or is otherwise so tenuous that it's hard to trace. So comparing a serial killer to a street mugger is a pretty big leap.

Do you really think criminal "master-minds" are sitting around coordinating hold-ups at gas stations? Seriously?

Are there smart criminals? Sure, but I'd venture that they're going after slightly bigger game. ID theft, credit card theft, banks, etc. (Hell the really smart ones went to college and got jobs on Wall St where they could steal millions.)

Could a smart person rob a gas station? Yes, they could. I suppose if someone were desperate enough, they'd resort to just about anything, but that's also like asking if a Harvard grad could wind up working at McDonalds. It could happen, but the odds are pretty strongly against it.

Same goes for athletic/well-trained & smart (or strong & smart). Could they mug someone? Yes, but again, why? Wouldn't someone smart look at the risk vs reward of a mugging? The average mugging, what are you likely to get? Watch, wallet (some cash, some credit cards), cell phone, maybe some jewelry. Most of that would have to be fenced, so you'd be lucky to get 20-30% of what it's worth, and can leave a trail. Credit cards, you could try to make some fast buys before they're canceled, but that's liable to put you on cameras, or if you're buying on-line leaves a trail that can be traced. Maybe you'll get $100? $200-300 if you're really lucky? With a risk of 5-10 years if you're caught. Is that worth it for someone smart?

Criminals are predators. Predators, whether they're human or animal, want to get the maximum reward for the minimum risk. You're pretty unlikely to hear a nature show host talk about a lion checking out a herd of buffalo, then walking openly up to the biggest, toughest one and challenging it to a fair fight. Predators look for the easiest target they think they can safely attack, and get away with. It's generally that simple.

(in reply to joether)
Profile   Post #: 306
RE: Must have used a knife - 8/23/2014 6:31:10 AM   
BamaD


Posts: 20687
Joined: 2/27/2005
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: joether

quote:

ORIGINAL: BamaD
quote:

ORIGINAL: GotSteel
quote:

ORIGINAL: BamaD
He made the reference to smart criminals holding up gas stations, so by your rules it is a logical fallacy till he proves it.


I saw him expressing skepticism at your assertion, which is immensely reasonable you haven't met your burden of proof. His asking you to back up your assertions isn't actually the same as making a positive claim that bank robbers are smart (or some such) in which case yes the burden would be on him to support his claim.

P.S. I did see some unsupported/poorly supported claims by him on pages 2 and 4 but not in regards to IQ, if he's actually made such a claim in this thread I'm not finding it.

You need to read more he made a reference to smart criminals. Which flies in the face of anything we have seen, even you should understand that. And no he did not use the term IQ. You still suffer from the delusion that you are the final judge of what does and does not need to be proven.
I will concede this by his standard people who hold up gas stations may be smart, but I have a higher standard for smart than knowing which way to run.


Oh that's right, BamaD lives in this fantasy world in which there are no smart criminals. That he can outsmart all of them......'forgot'....

Tell me, BamaD, how did 19 guys manage to wreck three really large buildings and cause a number of other problems on September 11, 2001? Must not have been a mastermind behind it all, since, according to your 'logic', there are no smart criminals.

The smart criminals do not usually get catch due to stupid or foolish mistakes. But they being human, are still open to making mistakes here and there. There are many murders whom took the police a while to track down (i.e. serial killers). I guess loading a Ryder rental truck with fertilizer, gas, and remote detonator, parking before a federal building in Oklahoma City, ....had....to have been done by a pair of idiots, right?

So could a smart criminal rob a gas station? Or an athletic/well trained and smart criminal can not mug people? Or are you of the opinion that if someone is physically strong, they are an idiot and vise versa?





Shame you can't read. I said that smart criminals would not be likely to be engaged in things like holding up gas stations. They would be engaged in safer, more profitable crimes (white collar crime).
As for 9/11 that was war not crime.
You have displayed to common liberal misconceptions.
A The Kryptonian school of criminology
B Al qeada and isis should just be treated as common criminals.
C 9/11 was the result of "masterminds" the co-ordination was done for them by the airlines, all they had to be able to do was read the schedules.

_____________________________

Government ranges from a necessary evil to an intolerable one. Thomas Paine

People don't believe they can defend themselves because they have guns, they have guns because they believe they can defend themselves.

(in reply to joether)
Profile   Post #: 307
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