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RE: Must have used a knife - 8/11/2014 10:09:07 PM   
subrosaDom


Posts: 724
Joined: 2/16/2014
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Kirata


quote:

ORIGINAL: DomKen

He doesn't argue for more gun control and does argue that more gun ownership results in a deterrent effect.

From the Abstract...

EVIDENCE WAS FOUND TO SUPPORT THE HYPOTHESIS CONCERNING A CIRCULARITY OF GUN OWNERSHIP AND HOMICIDE, WITH HOMICIDE PUSHING UP GUN OWNERSHIP AND GUN OWNERSHIP INCREASING HOMICIDE.

On what planet is that arguing more gun ownership results in a deterrent effect.

K.



So according to that hypothesis, Switzerland should be the real life version of The Walking Dead.

_____________________________

The surest way to corrupt a youth is to instruct him to hold in higher esteem those who think alike than those who think differently.

- Nietzsche

(in reply to Kirata)
Profile   Post #: 201
RE: Must have used a knife - 8/11/2014 10:23:51 PM   
BamaD


Posts: 20687
Joined: 2/27/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: DomKen

But while making fun of you two has been fun back to the original topic,
BamaD tried to pass off this lie
quote:

It proves that gun free zones don't make a difference by your own words.
And gun welcome zones have less casualties as per a study I have already posted on another thread

The study does not exist. He made it up.


No I didn't of course in your world anything you don't like is a lie.
You spent pages attacking this study when I posted it before.
Prove I made it up.
And the fact remains that gun free zones are a joke unless the bad guys obey them. And if they obey them they should post no crime zones.

_____________________________

Government ranges from a necessary evil to an intolerable one. Thomas Paine

People don't believe they can defend themselves because they have guns, they have guns because they believe they can defend themselves.

(in reply to DomKen)
Profile   Post #: 202
RE: Must have used a knife - 8/11/2014 10:37:07 PM   
BamaD


Posts: 20687
Joined: 2/27/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: DomKen

But while making fun of you two has been fun back to the original topic,
BamaD tried to pass off this lie
quote:

It proves that gun free zones don't make a difference by your own words.
And gun welcome zones have less casualties as per a study I have already posted on another thread

The study does not exist. He made it up.



Can't get the link to work but type in
fewer casualties with armed resistance \
then click on daily anarchist
Now apologize you worthless pile of excrement

< Message edited by BamaD -- 8/11/2014 10:41:31 PM >

_____________________________

Government ranges from a necessary evil to an intolerable one. Thomas Paine

People don't believe they can defend themselves because they have guns, they have guns because they believe they can defend themselves.

(in reply to DomKen)
Profile   Post #: 203
RE: Must have used a knife - 8/12/2014 3:20:34 AM   
DomKen


Posts: 19457
Joined: 7/4/2004
From: Chicago, IL
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: BamaD

quote:

ORIGINAL: DomKen

But while making fun of you two has been fun back to the original topic,
BamaD tried to pass off this lie
quote:

It proves that gun free zones don't make a difference by your own words.
And gun welcome zones have less casualties as per a study I have already posted on another thread

The study does not exist. He made it up.



Can't get the link to work but type in
fewer casualties with armed resistance \
then click on daily anarchist
Now apologize you worthless pile of excrement

That is not a study. That is just some random guy compiling a bunch of news reports. Maybe you don't have the faintest clue how science is done but that ain't how.

To start with his inclusion and exclusion parameters are not defined they are purely subjective which makes the entire thing biased. We have absolutely no way of knowing what he included and excluded. He failed to include his data set and the list he provides is woefully inadequate to determine how many shootings he failed to include, which considering how many occur nationally must be many hundreds. Then he starts excluding incidents from each list for entirely subjective reasons that he also fails to explain, without providing a detailed appendix detailing each case as would be required by actual science. IOW that isn't anything but some utterly worthless list.

AND furthermore it isn't even what you claimed it was you worthless pile of stinking excrement. No where in that stupid poorly written column does it make any claim at all that all the mass shootings not stopped by armed civilians were in gun free areas or that only those stopped by armed civilians were in gun permitted areas.

So how about that apology you so boldly demanded?

(in reply to BamaD)
Profile   Post #: 204
RE: Must have used a knife - 8/12/2014 8:40:50 AM   
BamaD


Posts: 20687
Joined: 2/27/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: DomKen

quote:

ORIGINAL: BamaD

quote:

ORIGINAL: DomKen

But while making fun of you two has been fun back to the original topic,
BamaD tried to pass off this lie
quote:

It proves that gun free zones don't make a difference by your own words.
And gun welcome zones have less casualties as per a study I have already posted on another thread

The study does not exist. He made it up.



Can't get the link to work but type in
fewer casualties with armed resistance \
then click on daily anarchist
Now apologize you worthless pile of excrement

That is not a study. That is just some random guy compiling a bunch of news reports. Maybe you don't have the faintest clue how science is done but that ain't how.

To start with his inclusion and exclusion parameters are not defined they are purely subjective which makes the entire thing biased. We have absolutely no way of knowing what he included and excluded. He failed to include his data set and the list he provides is woefully inadequate to determine how many shootings he failed to include, which considering how many occur nationally must be many hundreds. Then he starts excluding incidents from each list for entirely subjective reasons that he also fails to explain, without providing a detailed appendix detailing each case as would be required by actual science. IOW that isn't anything but some utterly worthless list.

AND furthermore it isn't even what you claimed it was you worthless pile of stinking excrement. No where in that stupid poorly written column does it make any claim at all that all the mass shootings not stopped by armed civilians were in gun free areas or that only those stopped by armed civilians were in gun permitted areas.

So how about that apology you so boldly demanded?

Were you capable of reading you would know that I didn't say that it claimed that all mass shootings not stopped by armed civilians were in gun free zones. Exactly the kind of distortion I have come to expect from you.
The fact that you dismiss this is no surprise. You don't like what it says so it doesn't count. Simple as that. Almost as simple as your mind.

_____________________________

Government ranges from a necessary evil to an intolerable one. Thomas Paine

People don't believe they can defend themselves because they have guns, they have guns because they believe they can defend themselves.

(in reply to DomKen)
Profile   Post #: 205
RE: Must have used a knife - 8/12/2014 10:03:15 AM   
BamaD


Posts: 20687
Joined: 2/27/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: DomKen

quote:

ORIGINAL: BamaD

quote:

ORIGINAL: DomKen

But while making fun of you two has been fun back to the original topic,
BamaD tried to pass off this lie
quote:

It proves that gun free zones don't make a difference by your own words.
And gun welcome zones have less casualties as per a study I have already posted on another thread

The study does not exist. He made it up.



Can't get the link to work but type in
fewer casualties with armed resistance \
then click on daily anarchist
Now apologize you worthless pile of excrement

That is not a study. That is just some random guy compiling a bunch of news reports. Maybe you don't have the faintest clue how science is done but that ain't how.

To start with his inclusion and exclusion parameters are not defined they are purely subjective which makes the entire thing biased. We have absolutely no way of knowing what he included and excluded. He failed to include his data set and the list he provides is woefully inadequate to determine how many shootings he failed to include, which considering how many occur nationally must be many hundreds. Then he starts excluding incidents from each list for entirely subjective reasons that he also fails to explain, without providing a detailed appendix detailing each case as would be required by actual science. IOW that isn't anything but some utterly worthless list.

AND furthermore it isn't even what you claimed it was you worthless pile of stinking excrement. No where in that stupid poorly written column does it make any claim at all that all the mass shootings not stopped by armed civilians were in gun free areas or that only those stopped by armed civilians were in gun permitted areas.

So how about that apology you so boldly demanded?

It is done better than the infamous CDC "study" which counted 25 years old killed in shootouts with the police as children killed by guns or the Bloomberg "study" which included students shot miles from the school and school shootings. He shows just what he used up front.

_____________________________

Government ranges from a necessary evil to an intolerable one. Thomas Paine

People don't believe they can defend themselves because they have guns, they have guns because they believe they can defend themselves.

(in reply to DomKen)
Profile   Post #: 206
RE: Must have used a knife - 8/12/2014 6:08:24 PM   
DomKen


Posts: 19457
Joined: 7/4/2004
From: Chicago, IL
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: BamaD


quote:

ORIGINAL: DomKen

quote:

ORIGINAL: BamaD

quote:

ORIGINAL: DomKen

But while making fun of you two has been fun back to the original topic,
BamaD tried to pass off this lie
quote:

It proves that gun free zones don't make a difference by your own words.
And gun welcome zones have less casualties as per a study I have already posted on another thread

The study does not exist. He made it up.



Can't get the link to work but type in
fewer casualties with armed resistance \
then click on daily anarchist
Now apologize you worthless pile of excrement

That is not a study. That is just some random guy compiling a bunch of news reports. Maybe you don't have the faintest clue how science is done but that ain't how.

To start with his inclusion and exclusion parameters are not defined they are purely subjective which makes the entire thing biased. We have absolutely no way of knowing what he included and excluded. He failed to include his data set and the list he provides is woefully inadequate to determine how many shootings he failed to include, which considering how many occur nationally must be many hundreds. Then he starts excluding incidents from each list for entirely subjective reasons that he also fails to explain, without providing a detailed appendix detailing each case as would be required by actual science. IOW that isn't anything but some utterly worthless list.

AND furthermore it isn't even what you claimed it was you worthless pile of stinking excrement. No where in that stupid poorly written column does it make any claim at all that all the mass shootings not stopped by armed civilians were in gun free areas or that only those stopped by armed civilians were in gun permitted areas.

So how about that apology you so boldly demanded?

Were you capable of reading you would know that I didn't say that it claimed that all mass shootings not stopped by armed civilians were in gun free zones. Exactly the kind of distortion I have come to expect from you.
The fact that you dismiss this is no surprise. You don't like what it says so it doesn't count. Simple as that. Almost as simple as your mind.

I am quite capable of reading and I'll even paste what is still in the thread that you wrote for your reading convenience since you seem to be pretending to have never written it again.
quote:

And gun welcome zones have less casualties as per a study I have already posted on another thread

So for the above "study" to actual document what you claimed it did it would have to restrict its findings to only shootings in "gun welcome zones" in comparison to those in "gun free zones" which it clearly does not. So it is worthless for the very claim you claimed it supported.

Now where is that apology?

< Message edited by DomKen -- 8/12/2014 6:10:08 PM >

(in reply to BamaD)
Profile   Post #: 207
RE: Must have used a knife - 8/12/2014 6:16:39 PM   
BamaD


Posts: 20687
Joined: 2/27/2005
Status: offline 		So for the above "study" to actual document what you claimed it did it would have to restrict its findings to only shootings in "gun welcome zones" in comparison to those in "gun free zones" which it clearly does not. So it is worthless for the very claim you claimed it supported.


It shows that armed resistance lowers casualties, now clearly that armed resistance would occur in areas that are not gun free.

I did not make the claim you said I did so here is your apology.

I am so sorry you are an idiot.

_____________________________

Government ranges from a necessary evil to an intolerable one. Thomas Paine

People don't believe they can defend themselves because they have guns, they have guns because they believe they can defend themselves.

(in reply to DomKen)
Profile   Post #: 208
RE: Must have used a knife - 8/12/2014 7:12:24 PM   
GotSteel


Posts: 5871
Joined: 2/19/2008
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: BamaD
It shows that armed resistance lowers casualties, now clearly that armed resistance would occur in areas that are not gun free.


According to that no true scotsman logic no one has ever been shot in gun free zones. In other words gun free zones are 100% safe from shootings.

(in reply to BamaD)
Profile   Post #: 209
RE: Must have used a knife - 8/12/2014 8:20:21 PM   
Kirata


Posts: 15477
Joined: 2/11/2006
From: USA
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: GotSteel
quote:

ORIGINAL: BamaD

It shows that armed resistance lowers casualties, now clearly that armed resistance would occur in areas that are not gun free.

According to that no true scotsman logic no one has ever been shot in gun free zones. In other words gun free zones are 100% safe from shootings.





(in reply to GotSteel)
Profile   Post #: 210
RE: Must have used a knife - 8/12/2014 8:23:32 PM   
BamaD


Posts: 20687
Joined: 2/27/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: GotSteel


quote:

ORIGINAL: BamaD
It shows that armed resistance lowers casualties, now clearly that armed resistance would occur in areas that are not gun free.


According to that no true scotsman logic no one has ever been shot in gun free zones. In other words gun free zones are 100% safe from shootings.

That is the logic of gun free zones, not mine.

_____________________________

Government ranges from a necessary evil to an intolerable one. Thomas Paine

People don't believe they can defend themselves because they have guns, they have guns because they believe they can defend themselves.

(in reply to GotSteel)
Profile   Post #: 211
RE: Must have used a knife - 8/12/2014 9:21:07 PM   
DomKen


Posts: 19457
Joined: 7/4/2004
From: Chicago, IL
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: BamaD

So for the above "study" to actual document what you claimed it did it would have to restrict its findings to only shootings in "gun welcome zones" in comparison to those in "gun free zones" which it clearly does not. So it is worthless for the very claim you claimed it supported.


It shows that armed resistance lowers casualties, now clearly that armed resistance would occur in areas that are not gun free.

I did not make the claim you said I did so here is your apology.

I am so sorry you are an idiot.

Wrong!
That is the no true Scotsman fallacy as Got Steel as already pointed out.

(in reply to BamaD)
Profile   Post #: 212
RE: Must have used a knife - 8/13/2014 10:11:53 AM   
GotSteel


Posts: 5871
Joined: 2/19/2008
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: BamaD
It shows that armed resistance lowers casualties, now clearly that armed resistance would occur in areas that are not gun free.

quote:

ORIGINAL: BamaD
That is the logic of gun free zones, not mine.


I'm pointing out that you can't just throw a bunch of consense together to define your position into correctness. If it were valid for you to do, it would be valid for everyone to do at which point gun free zones would be 100% effective, condoms would be 100% effective, 100% of Christians would belong to the KKK and being a conservative would be un-American.

(in reply to BamaD)
Profile   Post #: 213
RE: Must have used a knife - 8/13/2014 2:10:13 PM   
BamaD


Posts: 20687
Joined: 2/27/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: GotSteel


quote:

ORIGINAL: BamaD
It shows that armed resistance lowers casualties, now clearly that armed resistance would occur in areas that are not gun free.

quote:

ORIGINAL: BamaD
That is the logic of gun free zones, not mine.


I'm pointing out that you can't just throw a bunch of consense together to define your position into correctness. If it were valid for you to do, it would be valid for everyone to do at which point gun free zones would be 100% effective, condoms would be 100% effective, 100% of Christians would belong to the KKK and being a conservative would be un-American.


If gun free zones worked there would be no need for them because it would mean that people follow the rules. The only people who are going to follow the rules are the ones who there would be no need to worry about in the first place.

_____________________________

Government ranges from a necessary evil to an intolerable one. Thomas Paine

People don't believe they can defend themselves because they have guns, they have guns because they believe they can defend themselves.

(in reply to GotSteel)
Profile   Post #: 214
RE: Must have used a knife - 8/13/2014 2:13:41 PM   
mnottertail


Posts: 60698
Joined: 11/3/2004
Status: offline 		Then dismiss all traffic signs, and the police.

_____________________________

Have they not divided the prey; to every man a damsel or two? Judges 5:30


(in reply to BamaD)
Profile   Post #: 215
RE: Must have used a knife - 8/13/2014 5:00:18 PM   
BecomingV


Posts: 916
Joined: 11/11/2013
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: BamaD


quote:

ORIGINAL: GotSteel


quote:

ORIGINAL: BamaD
It shows that armed resistance lowers casualties, now clearly that armed resistance would occur in areas that are not gun free.

quote:

ORIGINAL: BamaD
That is the logic of gun free zones, not mine.


I'm pointing out that you can't just throw a bunch of consense together to define your position into correctness. If it were valid for you to do, it would be valid for everyone to do at which point gun free zones would be 100% effective, condoms would be 100% effective, 100% of Christians would belong to the KKK and being a conservative would be un-American.


If gun free zones worked there would be no need for them because it would mean that people follow the rules. The only people who are going to follow the rules are the ones who there would be no need to worry about in the first place.


While I normally hesitate to jump in once you two are "engaged," THAT ^^^ needs debunking.

On the planet I inhabit - NO ONE follows all of the rules. Humans are incapable of perfection. Keeping reality in mind may help the discussion.

(in reply to BamaD)
Profile   Post #: 216
RE: Must have used a knife - 8/13/2014 6:02:23 PM   
GotSteel


Posts: 5871
Joined: 2/19/2008
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: BamaD
If gun free zones worked there would be no need for them because it would mean that people follow the rules. The only people who are going to follow the rules are the ones who there would be no need to worry about in the first place.


Hold on, before changing the subject, did you manage to understand the point I'm making?

(in reply to BamaD)
Profile   Post #: 217
RE: Must have used a knife - 8/13/2014 7:44:29 PM   
BamaD


Posts: 20687
Joined: 2/27/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: GotSteel


quote:

ORIGINAL: BamaD
If gun free zones worked there would be no need for them because it would mean that people follow the rules. The only people who are going to follow the rules are the ones who there would be no need to worry about in the first place.


Hold on, before changing the subject, did you manage to understand the point I'm making?

Do you understand that I am not changing the subject.

_____________________________

Government ranges from a necessary evil to an intolerable one. Thomas Paine

People don't believe they can defend themselves because they have guns, they have guns because they believe they can defend themselves.

(in reply to GotSteel)
Profile   Post #: 218
RE: Must have used a knife - 8/13/2014 8:36:49 PM   
GotSteel


Posts: 5871
Joined: 2/19/2008
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: BamaD
Do you understand that I am not changing the subject.


Sounds like my point went over your head. This hasn't been me taking a stance on gun free zones, it's been me pointing out an informal fallacy in your previous argument.

If you don't understand that I'm willing to walk you through it in greater detail. If you do understand then by all means either attempt to fix your argument or cede the point that it's a failure in which case I'm perfectly happy to continue discussing your next argument.


(in reply to BamaD)
Profile   Post #: 219
RE: Must have used a knife - 8/13/2014 8:45:58 PM   
BamaD


Posts: 20687
Joined: 2/27/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: GotSteel


quote:

ORIGINAL: BamaD
Do you understand that I am not changing the subject.


Sounds like my point went over your head. This hasn't been me taking a stance on gun free zones, it's been me pointing out an informal fallacy in your previous argument.

If you don't understand that I'm willing to walk you through it in greater detail. If you do understand then by all means either attempt to fix your argument or cede the point that it's a failure in which case I'm perfectly happy to continue discussing your next argument.



There is no fallacy in my argument. Gun free zones do not work. Armed resistance will thus happen almost exclusively in non gun free zones as those people who carry legally will, in general, obey the signs. I know that I do.

_____________________________

Government ranges from a necessary evil to an intolerable one. Thomas Paine

People don't believe they can defend themselves because they have guns, they have guns because they believe they can defend themselves.

(in reply to GotSteel)
Profile   Post #: 220
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