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RE: Must have used a knife - 8/4/2014 2:29:04 PM   
PeonForHer


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quote:

ORIGINAL: BamaD

We have one set of gas stations in our town has declared themselves to be a gun free zone (no self defense zone). Our first holdup in a couple of years happened last night at one of their stations. Since guns are banned the thug obviously used a knife. I don't understand why they didn't declare it a no crime zone, obviously that would have prevented the holdup.


Woo hoo, Bama's discovered irony!

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(in reply to BamaD)
Profile   Post #: 41
RE: Must have used a knife - 8/4/2014 2:38:45 PM   
BamaD


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quote:

ORIGINAL: DomKen

quote:

ORIGINAL: BamaD

Moron I have stated repeatedly that I don't carry in the open because I know all of that.
Besides any time I have had trouble (with one exception, at a wedding) they came onto my property. That gives me a 20 yard margin and I don't let them get close enough for a blitz.
Funny that has never happened but I have had them run away when they realized I could fight back.
You have been reading too many mindless anti-gun blogs.
And what does anything have to do with the uselessness of gun free zones?


Having a gun inside your waistband doesn't make it invisible. Please think for once. The guy who does this for a living knows exactly what he's looking for.

If carrying is so stupid why, when I worked admin for the Sheriff's office did my supervisor (who was not only an officer but a Capt) direct me to start carrying when off duty?
I will trust his judgement on these things over yours any day.

_____________________________

Government ranges from a necessary evil to an intolerable one. Thomas Paine

People don't believe they can defend themselves because they have guns, they have guns because they believe they can defend themselves.

(in reply to DomKen)
Profile   Post #: 42
RE: Must have used a knife - 8/4/2014 3:42:54 PM   
Politesub53


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quote:

ORIGINAL: subrosaDom


quote:

ORIGINAL: Politesub53

Lovely, he claims to live in a normally crime free area but also claims he needs a gun as the streets are so dangerous.


Normally crime-free does not mean always crime-free.

Because there is a 0.1% chance that I will have my home invaded does that mean in your calculus that I should forfeit my right to defend my home and family? On what grounds? That the criminal is superior morally to me? That the criminal has the right to kill, injure or maim me or my family? That the police when I press a button will magically appear in 1 nanosecond in the middle of the night in my house or perhaps, as in Fringe, you will be able to "amber" them?

Your argument is entirely specious. I suppose you never use seat belts either because the odds at any given time that you'll need them, when driving in a "safe" area not given to high speeds, are so low that you dispense with them. I suppose you are an anti-vaccine person, too, since the odds you'll get tetanus or measles are relatively low, so why bother? I mean, why do ANYTHING or take any precautions against anything if the odds are low that it will occur. In fact, why not leave the door of your house unlocked and even open most of the time when you have a 1-year-old in the house, because after all, the odds that someone will come in and steal the baby are extraordinarily low.

Your argument has no logical basis whatsoever.


Yes indeed, my argument has no logic, which explains the high gun mortality rate in the US.

So, in your opinion, crime free doesnt always mean crime free...... Now thats specious.

(in reply to subrosaDom)
Profile   Post #: 43
RE: Must have used a knife - 8/4/2014 4:04:36 PM   
Kirata


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Joined: 2/11/2006
From: USA
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Politesub53

Yes indeed, my argument has no logic, which explains the high gun mortality rate in the US.

The second comma is an error. Otherwise, nicely put.

Yes indeed, my argument has no logic which explains the high gun mortality rate in the US.

K.

(in reply to Politesub53)
Profile   Post #: 44
RE: Must have used a knife - 8/4/2014 4:30:02 PM   
deathtothepixies


Posts: 683
Joined: 2/19/2012
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quote:

ORIGINAL: BamaD


the neighborhood when down hill after I bought my house


some people just seem be dogged by bad decisions, I wonder how much they think about what they do and how much it affects other people

(in reply to BamaD)
Profile   Post #: 45
RE: Must have used a knife - 8/4/2014 4:45:04 PM   
DomKen


Posts: 19457
Joined: 7/4/2004
From: Chicago, IL
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: BamaD


quote:

ORIGINAL: DomKen

quote:

ORIGINAL: BamaD

Moron I have stated repeatedly that I don't carry in the open because I know all of that.
Besides any time I have had trouble (with one exception, at a wedding) they came onto my property. That gives me a 20 yard margin and I don't let them get close enough for a blitz.
Funny that has never happened but I have had them run away when they realized I could fight back.
You have been reading too many mindless anti-gun blogs.
And what does anything have to do with the uselessness of gun free zones?


Having a gun inside your waistband doesn't make it invisible. Please think for once. The guy who does this for a living knows exactly what he's looking for.

If carrying is so stupid why, when I worked admin for the Sheriff's office did my supervisor (who was not only an officer but a Capt) direct me to start carrying when off duty?
I will trust his judgement on these things over yours any day.

Perhaps it was required by that county? It is by the town my family is from. Every city employee has to. How bad is the meth problem in your area?

(in reply to BamaD)
Profile   Post #: 46
RE: Must have used a knife - 8/4/2014 5:22:57 PM   
BamaD


Posts: 20687
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quote:

ORIGINAL: deathtothepixies


quote:

ORIGINAL: BamaD


the neighborhood when down hill after I bought my house


some people just seem be dogged by bad decisions, I wonder how much they think about what they do and how much it affects other people

The first step is that they don't care about how it affects other people.

_____________________________

Government ranges from a necessary evil to an intolerable one. Thomas Paine

People don't believe they can defend themselves because they have guns, they have guns because they believe they can defend themselves.

(in reply to deathtothepixies)
Profile   Post #: 47
RE: Must have used a knife - 8/4/2014 5:27:53 PM   
BamaD


Posts: 20687
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quote:

ORIGINAL: DomKen

quote:

ORIGINAL: BamaD


quote:

ORIGINAL: DomKen

quote:

ORIGINAL: BamaD

Moron I have stated repeatedly that I don't carry in the open because I know all of that.
Besides any time I have had trouble (with one exception, at a wedding) they came onto my property. That gives me a 20 yard margin and I don't let them get close enough for a blitz.
Funny that has never happened but I have had them run away when they realized I could fight back.
You have been reading too many mindless anti-gun blogs.
And what does anything have to do with the uselessness of gun free zones?


Having a gun inside your waistband doesn't make it invisible. Please think for once. The guy who does this for a living knows exactly what he's looking for.

If carrying is so stupid why, when I worked admin for the Sheriff's office did my supervisor (who was not only an officer but a Capt) direct me to start carrying when off duty?
I will trust his judgement on these things over yours any day.

Perhaps it was required by that county? It is by the town my family is from. Every city employee has to. How bad is the meth problem in your area?

No county employees were not required to be armed, even deputies had a choice.
This directive was given because of his concern for my safety.
In Montgomery they have a gang problem.
Here the problem is more coke and crack.
Those people can turn violent and are most assuredly not Oceans Eleven

_____________________________

Government ranges from a necessary evil to an intolerable one. Thomas Paine

People don't believe they can defend themselves because they have guns, they have guns because they believe they can defend themselves.

(in reply to DomKen)
Profile   Post #: 48
RE: Must have used a knife - 8/6/2014 4:11:04 AM   
joether


Posts: 5195
Joined: 7/24/2005
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quote:

ORIGINAL: BamaD
Here many won't do business with a business that declares a gun free zone,
others simply ignore the sign.
Many businesses have no open carry notices which I agree with.
How are people "forced" to carry in the open, I have never heard of such a thing outside of your imagination.


It seems there are more businesses with such a policy, then the opposite "free carry, we don't mind". An if such a policy didn't effect you; you wouldn't bring it up. But since your brought it up, it is effecting you enough to mention it. The question I have here is....why are you offended by the notion? That of a 'gun free zone' at a business establishment?




(in reply to BamaD)
Profile   Post #: 49
RE: Must have used a knife - 8/6/2014 4:22:02 AM   
joether


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quote:

ORIGINAL: BamaD
Is that gas station also a:

1 ) Nuclear Weapon Free Zone?
2 ) Chemical Weapon Free Zone?
3 ) Biological Weapon Free Zone?
4 ) Orbital Weapon Free Zone?

It also is not a knife free zone, a weapon free zone or a crime free zone.
Why?
Because they
A are just playing politics pretending that banning guns makes people safer
because everyone knows that if someone is planning to hold up the place
with a gun they will stop when they see the sign.
B Don't realize that when you know no one has a gun you are safe using a
knife making crime more economical.


I took what you stated to the logic level of silliness of what your complaining about. They do not have a problem with knives, or at least none that has come to the manager's attention. Its not a 'crime free zone' because most people are not fully mindless; meaning its implied without having to state the plainly obvious. If your having trouble with the 'plainly obvious stuff', perhaps having a firearm is not a good idea for you....

Your making an accusation that they posted the side for political reasons. Yet have not delivered one piece of evidence to support such a claim. Mine is observation from a business point of view. The manager reasons there are more people that dislike the 'gun-swagger' of some 'open carrying' fellows, then like it. And those people can easily shop elsewhere if he allows people that behave that way with firearms. So to stay in business, they simply place a 'gun free zone' and remain polite about the policy. That policy is not enforceable by them; but it does show them disrespect by walking in with a gun strapped to your side. You don't like people disrespecting you, right? Why would it be allowed in the reverse?

Also, that policy doesn't also say "the management is also, not armed'. Go in that business and find a few seconds to late you brought a knife to a shotgun fight.....


(in reply to BamaD)
Profile   Post #: 50
RE: Must have used a knife - 8/6/2014 7:00:57 AM   
igor2003


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Politesub53

Lovely, he claims to live in a normally crime free area but also claims he needs a gun as the streets are so dangerous.


Have you ever taken the time to stop and think about why some areas are "normally crime free"? It is usually because the people are pro-active against crime. Neighborhood watches, surveillance systems, gated communities, neighbors watching out for neighbors, and yes, even the people that reside in those communities sometimes carrying weapons. When people get lackadaisical about watching out for themselves it is an open invitation for the criminals to move in.

When it comes to weapons, I would much rather have it and not need it, than to need it and not have it, and it just might be that that attitude is what keeps Bama's neighborhood "normally crime free".

_____________________________

If the women don't find you handsome they should at least find you handy. - Red Green

At my age erections are like cops...there's never one around when you need it!

Never miss a good chance to shut up. - Will Rogers


(in reply to Politesub53)
Profile   Post #: 51
RE: Must have used a knife - 8/6/2014 11:40:53 AM   
Kirata


Posts: 15477
Joined: 2/11/2006
From: USA
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: igor2003
quote:

ORIGINAL: Politesub53

Lovely, he claims to live in a normally crime free area but also claims he needs a gun as the streets are so dangerous.


Have you ever taken the time to stop and think about why some areas are "normally crime free"? It is usually because the people are pro-active against crime. Neighborhood watches, surveillance systems, gated communities, neighbors watching out for neighbors, and yes, even the people that reside in those communities sometimes carrying weapons. When people get lackadaisical about watching out for themselves it is an open invitation for the criminals to move in.

When it comes to weapons, I would much rather have it and not need it, than to need it and not have it, and it just might be that that attitude is what keeps Bama's neighborhood "normally crime free".

Give this man a cigar.

K.

(in reply to igor2003)
Profile   Post #: 52
RE: Must have used a knife - 8/6/2014 1:15:06 PM   
BecomingV


Posts: 916
Joined: 11/11/2013
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: BamaD

We have one set of gas stations in our town has declared themselves to be a gun free zone (no self defense zone). Our first holdup in a couple of years happened last night at one of their stations. Since guns are banned the thug obviously used a knife. I don't understand why they didn't declare it a no crime zone, obviously that would have prevented the holdup.


A "gun-free zone" does not equate with a "no self-defense zone," as other posts pointed out.

I read your OP as having a mocking tone, which fell flat because of ^^^ that first assertion.

Businesses have always asserted a right to limit customers:

1 - No shoes, no shirt, no service
2 - No backpacks
3 - Only 3 students, or less, at a time

and more recently, no eyeglasses' cams.

When the business you wrote about put a limit on guns under their roof, I see that as being no different from a Presidential gathering. Is THAT a "no guns" gathering? No. The Secret Service keeps their guns, but those who enter are not welcome to bring their own.

The business may have a gun behind the counter and have trained all employees in its use. THAT will not prevent gun crime, because a criminal (regardless of what the specific crime they commit is) is a person who will violate the rights of others, in pursuit of getting what they want. So, they may put a bullet hole in the sign that seeks to limit them.

However, by NOT allowing customers to bring in guns, should a gun crime begin, there isn't going to be a lot of cross-firing going on, and the chances of hitting a bystander, are lessened. Should a customer come in, and an armed robbery occurs, and the customer begins shooting, too, at least the "no guns" sign is something a lawyer may use to protect the business owner from a law suit. If the customer's bullet ricochets and kills a kid, for example. A case could be made that responsibility for the killing sits squarely on the customer's head and the practice of suing the business, too (because of deeper pockets) wouldn't pass muster, under these circumstances.

So, while in the OP, the setting of a no gun zone appears to be laughable, perhaps with a bit of expanded thought, it's not. There may be a very real, profitable and reasonable set of reasons behind it.

I would suggest asking the business owner what the reasoning is before coming to a conclusion, or mocking it.

< Message edited by BecomingV -- 8/6/2014 1:20:44 PM >

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Profile   Post #: 53
RE: Must have used a knife - 8/6/2014 1:39:29 PM   
eulero83


Posts: 1470
Joined: 11/4/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: igor2003


quote:

ORIGINAL: Politesub53

Lovely, he claims to live in a normally crime free area but also claims he needs a gun as the streets are so dangerous.


Have you ever taken the time to stop and think about why some areas are "normally crime free"? It is usually because the people are pro-active against crime. Neighborhood watches, surveillance systems, gated communities, neighbors watching out for neighbors, and yes, even the people that reside in those communities sometimes carrying weapons. When people get lackadaisical about watching out for themselves it is an open invitation for the criminals to move in.

When it comes to weapons, I would much rather have it and not need it, than to need it and not have it, and it just might be that that attitude is what keeps Bama's neighborhood "normally crime free".


you also have to consider some people come from different countries with different situations, here in italy for example criminals tend to be less upfront in their attitude, usually you realize your wallet or watch is missing several hours later, also policies are different, for example drug dealers and pimps tend to not like if someone is robbed in the neighbourhood where they keep their business because if something is reported next day that part of the town is full of cops asking for documents and frisking people for days untill they move their business and find new costumers. In most of the cities I've been I always felt safe alone in the night and without a gun almost anywhere, if I were in milan, rome or naples I'd probably be more concerned while alone at night or around the train stations.

(in reply to igor2003)
Profile   Post #: 54
RE: Must have used a knife - 8/6/2014 4:21:47 PM   
Politesub53


Posts: 14862
Joined: 5/7/2007
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quote:

ORIGINAL: igor2003


quote:

ORIGINAL: Politesub53

Lovely, he claims to live in a normally crime free area but also claims he needs a gun as the streets are so dangerous.


Have you ever taken the time to stop and think about why some areas are "normally crime free"? It is usually because the people are pro-active against crime. Neighborhood watches, surveillance systems, gated communities, neighbors watching out for neighbors, and yes, even the people that reside in those communities sometimes carrying weapons. When people get lackadaisical about watching out for themselves it is an open invitation for the criminals to move in.

When it comes to weapons, I would much rather have it and not need it, than to need it and not have it, and it just might be that that attitude is what keeps Bama's neighborhood "normally crime free".



Laughable stuff Igor......... Do you think there are no normally crime free areas in the UK, despite the general public not carrying arms ?



(in reply to igor2003)
Profile   Post #: 55
RE: Must have used a knife - 8/6/2014 4:42:06 PM   
igor2003


Posts: 1718
Joined: 1/1/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Politesub53


quote:

ORIGINAL: igor2003


quote:

ORIGINAL: Politesub53

Lovely, he claims to live in a normally crime free area but also claims he needs a gun as the streets are so dangerous.


Have you ever taken the time to stop and think about why some areas are "normally crime free"? It is usually because the people are pro-active against crime. Neighborhood watches, surveillance systems, gated communities, neighbors watching out for neighbors, and yes, even the people that reside in those communities sometimes carrying weapons. When people get lackadaisical about watching out for themselves it is an open invitation for the criminals to move in.

When it comes to weapons, I would much rather have it and not need it, than to need it and not have it, and it just might be that that attitude is what keeps Bama's neighborhood "normally crime free".



Laughable stuff Igor......... Do you think there are no normally crime free areas in the UK, despite the general public not carrying arms ?





Some time ago, on a different thread, I posted a link to a site that compared overall crime in the U.S. to crimes in the U.K.. (And no, I'm not going to go looking it up again. You can do your own research.) It's true that the U.S. has more gun deaths per capita than the U.K., but the U.K. has more violent crime, and when asked how safe the people felt walking after dark, the people in the U.S. felt safer than the people in the U.K. Also, the people in the U.S. had more confidence in their police than the people in the U.K. So, the fact that you find things so laughable means the jokes on you.

_____________________________

If the women don't find you handsome they should at least find you handy. - Red Green

At my age erections are like cops...there's never one around when you need it!

Never miss a good chance to shut up. - Will Rogers


(in reply to Politesub53)
Profile   Post #: 56
RE: Must have used a knife - 8/6/2014 4:53:47 PM   
Politesub53


Posts: 14862
Joined: 5/7/2007
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quote:

ORIGINAL: igor2003

Some time ago, on a different thread, I posted a link to a site that compared overall crime in the U.S. to crimes in the U.K.. (And no, I'm not going to go looking it up again. You can do your own research.) It's true that the U.S. has more gun deaths per capita than the U.K., but the U.K. has more violent crime, and when asked how safe the people felt walking after dark, the people in the U.S. felt safer than the people in the U.K. Also, the people in the U.S. had more confidence in their police than the people in the U.K. So, the fact that you find things so laughable means the jokes on you.


From memory, your link was also laughable. If you had less crime, you wouldnt have a higher jail population would you. I guess you dont do logic ?

As for the notion Americans feel safer than we do....... I have never felt the need to get a gun to go out at night, even during my 40 years in inner London.

(in reply to igor2003)
Profile   Post #: 57
RE: Must have used a knife - 8/6/2014 5:08:57 PM   
MercTech


Posts: 3706
Joined: 7/4/2006
Status: offline 		Meh, it comes down to which state and local laws apply.

When I'm back home, open carry is legal in public except at certain locations:

Schools
Government Offices
Court Rooms
Places where alcoholic beverages are sold for consumption on the premises
In any business who posts their place of business as a "gun free zone"

The City has an ordinance against open carry in public parks.
But, another city a half hour drive away has a public rifle range at the city park.... local decision on what is appropriate in their venue.

Yep, you can carry your rifle into the bait shop and pick up an extra box of shells before you go hunting but you can't have it with you going into Wal-Mart where they have the no firearms sign up.


(in reply to Politesub53)
Profile   Post #: 58
RE: Must have used a knife - 8/6/2014 5:20:45 PM   
eulero83


Posts: 1470
Joined: 11/4/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: igor2003


Some time ago, on a different thread, I posted a link to a site that compared overall crime in the U.S. to crimes in the U.K.. (And no, I'm not going to go looking it up again. You can do your own research.) It's true that the U.S. has more gun deaths per capita than the U.K., but the U.K. has more violent crime, and when asked how safe the people felt walking after dark, the people in the U.S. felt safer than the people in the U.K. Also, the people in the U.S. had more confidence in their police than the people in the U.K. So, the fact that you find things so laughable means the jokes on you.


for experience the people in the US tend to be more optimistic, have much less expectations in terms of services provided by the government and are less prone to criticize their quality of life, so I would not take the resoults of that survey. The mere fact I walk with a gun means I think being victim of a crime is a concrete possibility this for me means I'm not safe period.

(in reply to igor2003)
Profile   Post #: 59
RE: Must have used a knife - 8/6/2014 5:24:02 PM   
eulero83


Posts: 1470
Joined: 11/4/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Politesub53


From memory, your link was also laughable. If you had less crime, you wouldnt have a higher jail population would you. I guess you dont do logic ?

As for the notion Americans feel safer than we do....... I have never felt the need to get a gun to go out at night, even during my 40 years in inner London.



actually it can be because there are longer sentences and more action that lead to a prison sentence, like prostitution or drug possession.

(in reply to Politesub53)
Profile   Post #: 60
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