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RE: Rioting is the answer - 8/16/2014 12:19:52 PM   
AQRMZ


Posts: 147
Joined: 10/12/2013
Status: offline 		IN reply to hot4bondage:

Ok just some thoughts on your questions and remember that probably we will never have the true answers, but just consider this.



1. Apparently a customer reported the robbery/assault. Why didn't the store report it?
(A) Who knows? remember this is not a scripted TV show like Criminal Minds or Bones or CSI.

2. Why was the first and most widely distributed photo of Michael Brown so inaccurate? He looks about 13 and he's standing in front of a carousel horse. It gave a very different impression than the 230 pound man shown in the robbery video.
(A) Remember that that is what is they did in the Travon Martin stories. Draw your own conclusions about the motives of National News Corps.

3. At least one witness supporting Mr. Brown claimed that the officer was attempting to drag him into the police car during the struggle. Don't cops usually have the suspect under control BEFORE they try to put them in their car?
(A) Remember the store video?
Who was the witness, well it was the guy with him in the store and the others were probably folks from the hood and they ain't gonna rat out a brotha, now are they?


< Message edited by AQRMZ -- 8/16/2014 12:29:37 PM >

(in reply to AQRMZ)
Profile   Post #: 321
RE: Rioting is the answer - 8/16/2014 12:35:25 PM   
BitYakin


Posts: 882
Joined: 10/15/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: hot4bondage

~FR~

I may have missed some details, but I have at least three questions.

1. Apparently a customer reported the robbery/assault. Why didn't the store report it?
2. Why was the first and most widely distributed photo of Michael Brown so inaccurate? He looks about 13 and he's standing in front of a carousel horse. It gave a very different impression than the 230 pound man shown in the robbery video.
3. At least one witness supporting Mr. Brown claimed that the officer was attempting to drag him into the police car during the struggle. Don't cops usually have the suspect under control BEFORE they try to put them in their car?


here is another interesting point, if the cop was trying to drag the "kid" into the car from INSIDE the car, that means the "kid" must have APPROACHED the car to be close enough to be DRAGGED IN

in NO account I have heard or read was it said the cop exited the car went over to the "kid" pulled him OVER TO THE CAR then tried to drag him into it

if the cop was OUTSIDE the car then he would have been pushing him into it not dragging him into it

(in reply to hot4bondage)
Profile   Post #: 322
RE: Rioting is the answer - 8/16/2014 12:56:26 PM   
vincentML


Posts: 9980
Joined: 10/31/2009
Status: offline
quote:

here is another interesting point, if the cop was trying to drag the "kid" into the car from INSIDE the car, that means the "kid" must have APPROACHED the car to be close enough to be DRAGGED IN

in NO account I have heard or read was it said the cop exited the car went over to the "kid" pulled him OVER TO THE CAR then tried to drag him into it

if the cop was OUTSIDE the car then he would have been pushing him into it not dragging him into it


Jeez Christ! If the cop pulled the kid into the car he would be pulling the "perp" onto himself. Cops are trained to pull suspects onto their laps? That makes no fucking sense at all. Damn!

(in reply to BitYakin)
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RE: Rioting is the answer - 8/16/2014 1:01:14 PM   
BamaD


Posts: 20687
Joined: 2/27/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: hot4bondage

~FR~

I may have missed some details, but I have at least three questions.

1. Apparently a customer reported the robbery/assault. Why didn't the store report it?
2. Why was the first and most widely distributed photo of Michael Brown so inaccurate? He looks about 13 and he's standing in front of a carousel horse. It gave a very different impression than the 230 pound man shown in the robbery video.
3. At least one witness supporting Mr. Brown claimed that the officer was attempting to drag him into the police car during the struggle. Don't cops usually have the suspect under control BEFORE they try to put them in their car?

In answer to question # 1 the manager may have felt that a box of cigars wasn't worth the potential risk of reprisals. I worked for a gas station that refused to prosecute drive offs because they didn't feel it was worth the effort.
# 3, not always, it ain't TV

< Message edited by BamaD -- 8/16/2014 1:02:18 PM >

_____________________________

Government ranges from a necessary evil to an intolerable one. Thomas Paine

People don't believe they can defend themselves because they have guns, they have guns because they believe they can defend themselves.

(in reply to hot4bondage)
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RE: Rioting is the answer - 8/16/2014 1:03:59 PM   
AQRMZ


Posts: 147
Joined: 10/12/2013
Status: offline 		IN reply to vincent, Hmmmmmm, well now, ya don't suppose the "kid" was bent on "attacking" the cop do ya.

After all he was a sweet lovable boy, just coming back from choir practice and on his way to donate a kidney to a nice old lady and then to his boyscout troop meeting.

Yeah???

Rite!!!!

(in reply to vincentML)
Profile   Post #: 325
RE: Rioting is the answer - 8/16/2014 1:06:38 PM   
PeonForHer


Posts: 19612
Joined: 9/27/2008
Status: offline
quote:

The city is sending the wrong message, if your a criminal and you get the police to shoot you then your family will be rich and set for life. ""


Though, in fairness, many people might see a teensy problemette with that as a crafty way of enriching one's family.

_____________________________

http://www.domme-chronicles.com


(in reply to AQRMZ)
Profile   Post #: 326
RE: Rioting is the answer - 8/16/2014 1:12:54 PM   
DomKen


Posts: 19457
Joined: 7/4/2004
From: Chicago, IL
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: AQRMZ

Betcha dabommer and his hed laier/lawier don't like much.

Could you be a bigger bigoted asshole?


(in reply to AQRMZ)
Profile   Post #: 327
RE: Rioting is the answer - 8/16/2014 1:23:44 PM   
AQRMZ


Posts: 147
Joined: 10/12/2013
Status: offline 		TO dk

quit yer pissin dk, da wind is blowin it back on ya.

here is what I said in it' entirety, not the little snippit that you chose to drivel about. AND since I am on this subject, it should be noted
that Mr. Holder and our esteemed President Mr. Obama, who has experience as a "community organizer" chose to jump into this on the side of the "choirboyscout"
before everything was out on the table.
So just who would you say was more, in your words certainly not mine, "bigoted assholes".
I leave it to the readers to decide on that one.
My black girlfriend certainly knows who is.

*****************************************

"NOT IN REPLY TO ANYONE

the original OP, "Whichever way it goes, I'm curious what people think of the assertion that looting and burning is the proper response."

Looting and burning is really stupid, I have always wondered why the good people, and there are lots of them of all colors, never come out and condemn this sort of thing.

It has happened as long as I can remember.

I was in Berkeley in the 60's putting out those fires and we in the firehouse, both black and white, could never see where it advanced the cause of the people peacefully demonstrating.

Just stickin to the original OP question here.

On a side issue, Have any of you ever taken a Police Training Course where you have split seconds to decide to shoot or not and who to shoot or not? Betcha not many of you have. I have see one demonstrated in a PDCA class. Believe me, shit happens fast and comes atcha from the most unexpected places. Not makin any comments on who was doin what here though.

I did see the vid of the thief knockin the store guy around and his "witness" buddy also, Have any of you seen that?

Betcha dabommer and his hed laier/lawier don't like that much.

OK go back to the pissin contest. "

***************************************

AND dk THAT IS EXACTLY WHAT YOU DID.

watch out the wind is blowin your way now.




< Message edited by AQRMZ -- 8/16/2014 1:28:18 PM >

(in reply to DomKen)
Profile   Post #: 328
RE: Rioting is the answer - 8/16/2014 1:41:27 PM   
cloudboy


Posts: 7306
Joined: 12/14/2005
Status: offline 		That is from St. Louis County police chief, Jon Belmar. Thanks for pointing it out. The source of information did not seem to come either from an official police report, the officer in question, or an actual investigation. (That Brown went for the officer's gun.)

Why would Mr. Brown go for the officer's gun? Can you explain to me the thinking there? You think he did this because he stole a box of cigars? It makes no sense.

---------

What is your explanation of this:

>The people who live in Canfield Green, the apartment complex where Brown was shot while on his way to visit his grandmother, not only witnessed his death but were subjected to an undignified wake: his prone figure sprawled on the street for four hours in the unforgiving August sun, with blood on the asphalt—an indignity in sharp contrast with the quick departure of the officer from the scene. “This was brazen,” Umana said to me. “It was done out in the open.” Better Family Life arranged for a bus with volunteer social workers and psychologists to be stationed near the spot to help community members cope with the trauma.<

Does that seemed fucked up to you?

< Message edited by cloudboy -- 8/16/2014 1:46:27 PM >

(in reply to BitYakin)
Profile   Post #: 329
RE: Rioting is the answer - 8/16/2014 1:43:26 PM   
vincentML


Posts: 9980
Joined: 10/31/2009
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: AQRMZ

IN reply to vincent, Hmmmmmm, well now, ya don't suppose the "kid" was bent on "attacking" the cop do ya.

After all he was a sweet lovable boy, just coming back from choir practice and on his way to donate a kidney to a nice old lady and then to his boyscout troop meeting.

Yeah???

Rite!!!!


Well, which was it? The kid attacked the cop through the window of the car or he was pulled in by the cop? Roll the damn tape. Oh, conveniently Fergie police cars lack video. Shit!

(in reply to AQRMZ)
Profile   Post #: 330
RE: Rioting is the answer - 8/16/2014 1:45:43 PM   
BamaD


Posts: 20687
Joined: 2/27/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: cloudboy



That is from St. Louis County police chief, Jon Belmar. Thanks for pointing it out. The source of information did not seem to come either from an official police report, the officer in question, on an actual investigation.

Why would Mr. Brown go for the officer's gun? Can you explain to me the thinking there? You think he did this because he stole a box of cigars?

---------

What is you explanation of this:

>The people who live in Canfield Green, the apartment complex where Brown was shot while on his way to visit his grandmother, not only witnessed his death but were subjected to an undignified wake: his prone figure sprawled on the street for four hours in the unforgiving August sun, with blood on the asphalt—an indignity in sharp contrast with the quick departure of the officer from the scene. “This was brazen,” Umana said to me. “It was done out in the open.” Better Family Life arranged for a bus with volunteer social workers and psychologists to be stationed near the spot to help community members cope with the trauma.<

Does that seemed fucked up to you?

So unless someone can tell you what the dead man was thinking when he did something they can't say he did it.

_____________________________

Government ranges from a necessary evil to an intolerable one. Thomas Paine

People don't believe they can defend themselves because they have guns, they have guns because they believe they can defend themselves.

(in reply to cloudboy)
Profile   Post #: 331
RE: Rioting is the answer - 8/16/2014 1:49:09 PM   
cloudboy


Posts: 7306
Joined: 12/14/2005
Status: offline 		Please respond to the actual question about how the Police handled the crime scene afterward. That has nothing to do with the victim's state of mind.

Why (the question is why!) would a 22 year old with no criminal record go for a police officer's gun (in the middle of the Street) after stealing a box of cigars?


< Message edited by cloudboy -- 8/16/2014 1:50:24 PM >

(in reply to BamaD)
Profile   Post #: 332
RE: Rioting is the answer - 8/16/2014 1:49:24 PM   
BamaD


Posts: 20687
Joined: 2/27/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: cloudboy

That is from St. Louis County police chief, Jon Belmar. Thanks for pointing it out. The source of information did not seem to come either from an official police report, the officer in question, or an actual investigation. (That Brown went for the officer's gun.)

Why would Mr. Brown go for the officer's gun? Can you explain to me the thinking there? You think he did this because he stole a box of cigars? It makes no sense.

---------

What is your explanation of this:

>The people who live in Canfield Green, the apartment complex where Brown was shot while on his way to visit his grandmother, not only witnessed his death but were subjected to an undignified wake: his prone figure sprawled on the street for four hours in the unforgiving August sun, with blood on the asphalt—an indignity in sharp contrast with the quick departure of the officer from the scene. “This was brazen,” Umana said to me. “It was done out in the open.” Better Family Life arranged for a bus with volunteer social workers and psychologists to be stationed near the spot to help community members cope with the trauma.<

Does that seemed fucked up to you?

How big is the cop.

_____________________________

Government ranges from a necessary evil to an intolerable one. Thomas Paine

People don't believe they can defend themselves because they have guns, they have guns because they believe they can defend themselves.

(in reply to cloudboy)
Profile   Post #: 333
RE: Rioting is the answer - 8/16/2014 1:52:58 PM   
Zonie63


Posts: 2826
Joined: 4/25/2011
From: The Old Pueblo
Status: offline 		FR

Missouri Governor Declares Curfew, State of Emergency

quote:

Missouri Gov. Jay Nixon today announced today that he was declaring a state of emergemncy and a curfew in Ferguson, where peaceful demonstrations about the police shooting of an unarmed man have been marred by nights of looting.

The governor said the curfew will run from midnight to 5 a.m.

"This is a test, the eyes of the world are watching," Nixon said. "This is a test to see if this community can break the cycle of violence and replace it with peace."



In terms of the world watching, I don't think it's just "this community" which is being tested.

(in reply to BamaD)
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RE: Rioting is the answer - 8/16/2014 2:01:41 PM   
Gauge


Posts: 5689
Joined: 6/17/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: cloudboy

That is from St. Louis County police chief, Jon Belmar. Thanks for pointing it out. The source of information did not seem to come either from an official police report, the officer in question, or an actual investigation. (That Brown went for the officer's gun.)

Why would Mr. Brown go for the officer's gun? Can you explain to me the thinking there? You think he did this because he stole a box of cigars? It makes no sense.



People do stupid shit that makes no sense all the time, why should this situation be any different?

quote:

What is your explanation of this:

>The people who live in Canfield Green, the apartment complex where Brown was shot while on his way to visit his grandmother, not only witnessed his death but were subjected to an undignified wake: his prone figure sprawled on the street for four hours in the unforgiving August sun, with blood on the asphalt—an indignity in sharp contrast with the quick departure of the officer from the scene. “This was brazen,” Umana said to me. “It was done out in the open.” Better Family Life arranged for a bus with volunteer social workers and psychologists to be stationed near the spot to help community members cope with the trauma.<

Does that seemed fucked up to you?


Allowing the officer to leave the scene was prudent because keeping him at the scene could have been a serious problem. This was a potential crime scene, all sorts of things must be accounted for and documented. Would you rather have had them come in, pick the body up right away, spray the blood away and remove all traces it ever happened? That little blurb makes a big deal out of investigation the incident. It is terrible that people had to see it, but come on man, what are you supposed to do? If they cleaned up the area quickly they would be accused of not caring, they take their time to investigate and get the same accusation. You cannot win in that situation.

< Message edited by Gauge -- 8/16/2014 2:02:46 PM >

_____________________________

"For there is no folly of the beast of the earth which is not infinitely outdone by the madness of men." Herman Melville - Moby Dick

I'm wearing my chicken suit and humming La Marseillaise.

(in reply to cloudboy)
Profile   Post #: 335
RE: Rioting is the answer - 8/16/2014 2:02:57 PM   
AQRMZ


Posts: 147
Joined: 10/12/2013
Status: offline 		Vincent I am with you on this. The "sweet boy" shit was an attempt at satire.

A person does not chase and grab another person from the seat in his car, so this angelic little sweet boy had something else goin on, why did he approach the car, did he try to attack the cop, take his gun, what?
Who knows? But, I am bettn that there is more here to be found out and he, the petty thief is not gonna look good in the end.

As to cop cars without video, our guys don't have a lot of stuff that we would like to give them.

You would not believe the price on these thing. Hell, we get up donations just for ammo at times.

***********************************


quote:

ORIGINAL: AQRMZ

IN reply to vincent, Hmmmmmm, well now, ya don't suppose the "kid" was bent on "attacking" the cop do ya.

After all he was a sweet lovable boy, just coming back from choir practice and on his way to donate a kidney to a nice old lady and then to his boyscout troop meeting.

Yeah???

Rite!!!!



Well, which was it? The kid attacked the cop through the window of the car or he was pulled in by the cop? Roll the damn tape. Oh, conveniently Fergie police cars lack video. Shit!


(in reply to Zonie63)
Profile   Post #: 336
RE: Rioting is the answer - 8/16/2014 2:37:41 PM   
PeonForHer


Posts: 19612
Joined: 9/27/2008
Status: offline 		AQRMZ,

You don't seem to be saying anything very intelligent, but what you are saying, you're saying in a really cool way!

_____________________________

http://www.domme-chronicles.com


(in reply to AQRMZ)
Profile   Post #: 337
RE: Rioting is the answer - 8/16/2014 2:49:23 PM   
TheHeretic


Posts: 19100
Joined: 3/25/2007
From: California, USA
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: DomKen
If everything was legit why did they...



Try and get something through your head here, Ken. I'm not supporting the LE position. I'm pointing out that ignorant motherfuckers such as yourself are lining right up, and bending right over, to help them make the whole thing go away.

You don't know their procedures, you don't know the decision makers. Don't act like you do, because you had a cop buddy once, and watch the true crime channel. You, and many others, are behaving like snotty little bitches who leapt into a fray without knowing any of the facts, and now the whining and poo-flinging start.

I'll put this in very simple terms. The cops are giving answers at a slow pace in order to let the protesters have lots of rope to hang themselves with. They want people to engage in wild speculation, let the speculation get reported as fact, then shoot it down in flames when they do the next release at their leisure.





_____________________________

If you lose one sense, your other senses are enhanced.
That's why people with no sense of humor have such an inflated sense of self-importance.


(in reply to DomKen)
Profile   Post #: 338
RE: Rioting is the answer - 8/16/2014 2:59:09 PM   
Gauge


Posts: 5689
Joined: 6/17/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: TheHeretic

The cops are giving answers at a slow pace in order to let the protesters have lots of rope to hang themselves with. They want people to engage in wild speculation, let the speculation get reported as fact, then shoot it down in flames when they do the next release at their leisure.



Sure, that certainly could be the case. Or it simply could be that people will engage in wild speculation as an event unfolds and those speculations are reported as factual or people believe them to be fact. The police do not have this luxury to speculate and be wrong, fact gathering, processing evidence and reviewing and re-questioning people all takes time. Or, you could spin it to make it look the way you tell it. Whatever fits your agenda.


_____________________________

"For there is no folly of the beast of the earth which is not infinitely outdone by the madness of men." Herman Melville - Moby Dick

I'm wearing my chicken suit and humming La Marseillaise.

(in reply to TheHeretic)
Profile   Post #: 339
RE: Rioting is the answer - 8/16/2014 3:10:45 PM   
AQRMZ


Posts: 147
Joined: 10/12/2013
Status: offline 		in reply to PFH:

ok I am not going to get into a pissing contest with you and so I am cool, thanks for that, well if you want something intelligent then why don't you say it instead of sort of pissing on me. Problem here is, there are no real "facts, witnesses" or anything else but speculation based on what is being "released" and preconceived attitudes. I am trying to stay neutral and look at what is presented in a reasonable way.

OK ball is in your court, be intelligent and say a lot of intelligent things and we will all applaud you.

(in reply to Gauge)
Profile   Post #: 340
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