quote:

ORIGINAL: BamaD

quote:

ORIGINAL: kdsub

No because it is the Grand Jury that makes that decision...not the prosecutor... people don't believe that however and his stepping aside takes the doubt away... or at least lessens it.

Butch

Did you know that the DOJ team that handles this kind of case was chastised by a Federal Judge in NO for falsifying facts and leaking Grand Jury testimony?
You can get an indictment against a ham sandwich.
or "I wash my hands of this"

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ORIGINAL: BamaD

quote:

ORIGINAL: subrosaDom

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ORIGINAL: cloudboy


I wouldn't trust these assholes at all after reading that report.

Statistics don't prove bias. Classic post hoc fallacy. Regression analyses are used to determine to what extent it is LIKELY a given variable contributed to an outcome. It's still even then statistics. Even at a 99% confidence level, 1 out of 100 times its "conclusion" will be wrong. You don't even have the statistical analyses, just a bunch of random statistics. It's innumerate to conclude anything from that.

Case in point the College I graduates from lost a discrimination lawsuit because the minority enrollment at the school was under 5%. This was taken as proof of a hostile environment. Having gone there I can tell you it was mainly just that white people chose better schools.

quote:

ORIGINAL: subrosaDom

quote:

ORIGINAL: BamaD

quote:

ORIGINAL: subrosaDom

quote:

ORIGINAL: cloudboy


I wouldn't trust these assholes at all after reading that report.

Statistics don't prove bias. Classic post hoc fallacy. Regression analyses are used to determine to what extent it is LIKELY a given variable contributed to an outcome. It's still even then statistics. Even at a 99% confidence level, 1 out of 100 times its "conclusion" will be wrong. You don't even have the statistical analyses, just a bunch of random statistics. It's innumerate to conclude anything from that.

Case in point the College I graduates from lost a discrimination lawsuit because the minority enrollment at the school was under 5%. This was taken as proof of a hostile environment. Having gone there I can tell you it was mainly just that white people chose better schools.

Ken would say it proves you choose racist schools!

quote:

ORIGINAL: subrosaDom

quote:

ORIGINAL: BamaD

quote:

ORIGINAL: kdsub

No because it is the Grand Jury that makes that decision...not the prosecutor... people don't believe that however and his stepping aside takes the doubt away... or at least lessens it.

Butch

Did you know that the DOJ team that handles this kind of case was chastised by a Federal Judge in NO for falsifying facts and leaking Grand Jury testimony?
You can get an indictment against a ham sandwich.
or "I wash my hands of this"

Yes, this matter aside, Grand Juries are one of the great failures of our system. Defendants don't get to have an attorney present. They can't challenge any witness testimony. It's a kangaroo court. This applies to ANY Grand Jury anywhere, 100% white, 100% black, in Beverly Hills or in Watts. Makes no difference.

quote:

ORIGINAL: SeekingTrinity

quote:

ORIGINAL: subrosaDom

quote:

ORIGINAL: BamaD

quote:

ORIGINAL: kdsub

No because it is the Grand Jury that makes that decision...not the prosecutor... people don't believe that however and his stepping aside takes the doubt away... or at least lessens it.

Butch

Did you know that the DOJ team that handles this kind of case was chastised by a Federal Judge in NO for falsifying facts and leaking Grand Jury testimony?
You can get an indictment against a ham sandwich.
or "I wash my hands of this"

Yes, this matter aside, Grand Juries are one of the great failures of our system. Defendants don't get to have an attorney present. They can't challenge any witness testimony. It's a kangaroo court. This applies to ANY Grand Jury anywhere, 100% white, 100% black, in Beverly Hills or in Watts. Makes no difference.

I think Id honestly feel more like you do on this if Grand Juries were where convictions happen. But all they really do is determine whether criminal charges should be brought. Lawful conviction or a finding of non-guilt comes further down the line before either a judge or jury (depending on the jurisdiction and the type of case). A conviction in the court of public opinion...well, it sadly doesn't take a whole lot of anything including waiting for due process to call for someone's head to be mounted on a stake on the front lawn of City Hall.

quote:

ORIGINAL: subrosaDom

When I was around 21, I was driving at 2am on a 45mph road through a wealthy suburb. My car was a muscle car beater. Looked like I had just gotten it straight from the dump. I mean brown doors, but some yellow, and then splashes of orange. Godawful. So I was doing maybe 75, no one on the road, and I was 100% sober. Cop pulls me over. He says to me: Whaddya think this is, the goddamned Cannonball Run? Clearly he was an asshole. So I could have given him a seriously wise-ass answer. I was just as sarcastic then as I am now. Instead I said something like (pretty unmemorable, unlike the cop's words), "No, Officer, I realize I may have been going too fast. I'll need to watch myself more carefully." So he says a few more things, asks me some basic questions like where am I going, coming from etc., makes sure I'm sober, no liquor on the floor, etc. and goes back to his car. Makes me wait about 15 minutes. Comes back and says: "Don't do it again." Didn't even give me a written warning. I could have gotten a major ticket for reckless driving. But instead I turned on my diplomacy and a bit of humility and got nothing. Now, I've gotten tickets for infractions I didn't commit, too. Twice. But I've talked my way out of a lot more.

quote:

This link just goes to show what I said at the beginning: this is a pandemic problem in Missouri, and Ferguson is just where the spotlight is at the moment.

quote:

ORIGINAL: ThirdWheelWanted

quote:

ORIGINAL: subrosaDom

When I was around 21, I was driving at 2am on a 45mph road through a wealthy suburb. My car was a muscle car beater. Looked like I had just gotten it straight from the dump. I mean brown doors, but some yellow, and then splashes of orange. Godawful. So I was doing maybe 75, no one on the road, and I was 100% sober. Cop pulls me over. He says to me: Whaddya think this is, the goddamned Cannonball Run? Clearly he was an asshole. So I could have given him a seriously wise-ass answer. I was just as sarcastic then as I am now. Instead I said something like (pretty unmemorable, unlike the cop's words), "No, Officer, I realize I may have been going too fast. I'll need to watch myself more carefully." So he says a few more things, asks me some basic questions like where am I going, coming from etc., makes sure I'm sober, no liquor on the floor, etc. and goes back to his car. Makes me wait about 15 minutes. Comes back and says: "Don't do it again." Didn't even give me a written warning. I could have gotten a major ticket for reckless driving. But instead I turned on my diplomacy and a bit of humility and got nothing. Now, I've gotten tickets for infractions I didn't commit, too. Twice. But I've talked my way out of a lot more.

I've found the same thing is most often true. Unless you get an officer who's a complete ass, if you're polite you're generally much better off. I've gotten tickets, I've gotten hassled a few times, but more often then not I've just gotten off with a warning, even when I've been dead wrong.

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ORIGINAL: subrosaDom

quote:

ORIGINAL: SeekingTrinity

quote:

ORIGINAL: subrosaDom

quote:

ORIGINAL: BamaD

quote:

ORIGINAL: kdsub

No because it is the Grand Jury that makes that decision...not the prosecutor... people don't believe that however and his stepping aside takes the doubt away... or at least lessens it.

Butch

Did you know that the DOJ team that handles this kind of case was chastised by a Federal Judge in NO for falsifying facts and leaking Grand Jury testimony?
You can get an indictment against a ham sandwich.
or "I wash my hands of this"

Yes, this matter aside, Grand Juries are one of the great failures of our system. Defendants don't get to have an attorney present. They can't challenge any witness testimony. It's a kangaroo court. This applies to ANY Grand Jury anywhere, 100% white, 100% black, in Beverly Hills or in Watts. Makes no difference.

I think Id honestly feel more like you do on this if Grand Juries were where convictions happen. But all they really do is determine whether criminal charges should be brought. Lawful conviction or a finding of non-guilt comes further down the line before either a judge or jury (depending on the jurisdiction and the type of case). A conviction in the court of public opinion...well, it sadly doesn't take a whole lot of anything including waiting for due process to call for someone's head to be mounted on a stake on the front lawn of City Hall.

Yes, that's true about actual conviction of course. But these are particularly bad if you're charged with a heinous crime. E.g., John Smith indicted by Grand Jury for child molestation. Well John Smith may be the wrong guy but he's done. The public thinks a Grand Jury indictment meant they considered both sides. If the public actually knew what an indictment really meant, it wouldn't be such a problem. Whereas if you're indicted for robbery, you can probably live that one down.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Sanity


Be polite but don't consent to a search

And a wise, informed person will keep his mouth shut.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6wXkI4t7nuc

quote:

ORIGINAL: subrosaDom

quote:

ORIGINAL: SeekingTrinity

quote:

ORIGINAL: subrosaDom

quote:

ORIGINAL: BamaD

quote:

ORIGINAL: kdsub

No because it is the Grand Jury that makes that decision...not the prosecutor... people don't believe that however and his stepping aside takes the doubt away... or at least lessens it.

Butch

Did you know that the DOJ team that handles this kind of case was chastised by a Federal Judge in NO for falsifying facts and leaking Grand Jury testimony?
You can get an indictment against a ham sandwich.
or "I wash my hands of this"

Yes, this matter aside, Grand Juries are one of the great failures of our system. Defendants don't get to have an attorney present. They can't challenge any witness testimony. It's a kangaroo court. This applies to ANY Grand Jury anywhere, 100% white, 100% black, in Beverly Hills or in Watts. Makes no difference.

I think Id honestly feel more like you do on this if Grand Juries were where convictions happen. But all they really do is determine whether criminal charges should be brought. Lawful conviction or a finding of non-guilt comes further down the line before either a judge or jury (depending on the jurisdiction and the type of case). A conviction in the court of public opinion...well, it sadly doesn't take a whole lot of anything including waiting for due process to call for someone's head to be mounted on a stake on the front lawn of City Hall.

Yes, that's true about actual conviction of course. But these are particularly bad if you're charged with a heinous crime. E.g., John Smith indicted by Grand Jury for child molestation. Well John Smith may be the wrong guy but he's done. The public thinks a Grand Jury indictment meant they considered both sides. If the public actually knew what an indictment really meant, it wouldn't be such a problem. Whereas if you're indicted for robbery, you can probably live that one down.

quote:

ORIGINAL: ThirdWheelWanted

quote:

ORIGINAL: Sanity


Be polite but don't consent to a search

And a wise, informed person will keep his mouth shut.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6wXkI4t7nuc

Yeah, definitely agree with that. Unfortunately too many places now seem to think that failure to consent means evidence of guilt and will then issue a warrant. So damned if you do, damned if you don't.

I had a problem in NJ once a few years ago, was visiting my folks otherwise I stay the hell out of that hell hole, when an officer stopped me for something and saw a shell casing on my back seat. I'd been to the range earlier in the week, and an empty must have fallen out of my range bag. Before I knew it, I had 4 cruisers surrounding me, a few guns drawn, it was a madhouse. I finally allowed them to look in my trunk, to avoid having the whole car torn apart. I knew there were no weapons, but I was damned glad there were no other stray cases or rounds.

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ORIGINAL: BamaD

New Jersey is starting to sound like Mexico

quote:

ORIGINAL: ThirdWheelWanted

quote:

ORIGINAL: BamaD

New Jersey is starting to sound like Mexico

I hate NJ. I grew up there, that's why I moved to PA. If I didn't have family there, I'd be happy never to go back.

Of course we made exceptions recently to meet two cute submissives. I still hated it, but another head had taken over some of the thinking.