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OMG.. Another US corporate Tax Inversion!!! - 8/25/2014 8:26:37 AM   
tj444


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Joined: 3/7/2010
Status: offline 		So Burger King is doing a tax inversion to escape high US taxes.. its buying Tim Hortons.. and moving to the "tax haven" known as.. umm.. Canada.. whodathunkit????

http://www.businessinsider.com/burger-king-shares-are-surging-2014-8

and then there is this..
"According to a recent KPMG study, Canada is one of the most business-friendly countries in the world. At least, when you look at the total tax cost for companies operating in some of the world's biggest economies.
This table from KPMG shows the corporate tax rate in Canada is 26.5%, which compares with 40% for the U.S."

http://finance.yahoo.com/news/canada-most-business-friendly-tax-125946388.html

My comment is tongue n cheek as I never considered Canada to be a low tax country..

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RE: OMG.. Another US corporate Tax Inversion!!! - 8/25/2014 8:44:12 AM   
Lucylastic


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RE: OMG.. Another US corporate Tax Inversion!!! - 8/25/2014 8:53:12 AM   
servantforuse


Posts: 6363
Joined: 3/8/2006
Status: offline 		The US corporate tax rate is 39.1 % which is the highest rate of all developed countries. Why don't we lower that rate and end any incentives for these companies to leave our shores. ?

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RE: OMG.. Another US corporate Tax Inversion!!! - 8/25/2014 9:28:01 AM   
RottenJohnny


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quote:

ORIGINAL: servantforuse

The US corporate tax rate is 39.1 % which is the highest rate of all developed countries. Why don't we lower that rate and end any incentives for these companies to leave our shores. ?

For Heaven's sake, don't mention lowering corporate taxes. Do you know how many enemies you'll make around here?

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RE: OMG.. Another US corporate Tax Inversion!!! - 8/25/2014 10:43:25 AM   
Zonie63


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From: The Old Pueblo
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quote:

ORIGINAL: tj444

So Burger King is doing a tax inversion to escape high US taxes.. its buying Tim Hortons.. and moving to the "tax haven" known as.. umm.. Canada.. whodathunkit????

http://www.businessinsider.com/burger-king-shares-are-surging-2014-8

and then there is this..
"According to a recent KPMG study, Canada is one of the most business-friendly countries in the world. At least, when you look at the total tax cost for companies operating in some of the world's biggest economies.
This table from KPMG shows the corporate tax rate in Canada is 26.5%, which compares with 40% for the U.S."

http://finance.yahoo.com/news/canada-most-business-friendly-tax-125946388.html

My comment is tongue n cheek as I never considered Canada to be a low tax country..


Yes, and reading that table comparing the different tax rates was rather interesting. Sweden's rate of 22% was even lower, as well as a number of other European countries which have lower rates than that of the United States (including France and the UK). However, there's also a table on individual tax rates.

According to the tables, the Canadian corporate tax rate was 36.1% in 2006, while ours was at 40% constant from 2006-14. (It doesn't appear that politics or which party was in power had any effect on this rate.) The Canadian rate has come down to where it's now at 26.5%. If they're looking for a real bargain in taxes, they should set up their headquarters in Bosnia or Paraguay, where the rate is only 10%. Russia's rate is 20% and China's is 25%.

I don't suppose this means that Burger King will be passing on this savings to their customers.


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RE: OMG.. Another US corporate Tax Inversion!!! - 8/25/2014 11:00:14 AM   
mnottertail


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Status: offline 		We should substantially increase taxes on these foreign based corporations, such as Burger King.

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RE: OMG.. Another US corporate Tax Inversion!!! - 8/25/2014 11:07:34 AM   
joether


Posts: 5195
Joined: 7/24/2005
Status: offline 		I could get a Burger King meal for about $7.50 or spend just two dollars more and get an ACTUAL burger with non-imitation fries from Chili's. I didn't do business with Burger King much in the past and now I have less reason to do any in the future.

When a company is trying to dodge taxes, that's a sign their internal economies are all fouled up. Hard to say what BK's internal financial problems are at the moment. Taxes are not their problem if they are making a good profit.

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RE: OMG.. Another US corporate Tax Inversion!!! - 8/25/2014 11:28:49 AM   
mnottertail


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Status: offline 		Let us all be clear, and cut all the asswipe, it doesn't matter if taxes are at 90%. That is one of the input costs passed on to the consumer.

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RE: OMG.. Another US corporate Tax Inversion!!! - 8/25/2014 12:28:35 PM   
Sanity


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quote:

ORIGINAL: mnottertail

We should substantially increase taxes on these foreign based corporations, such as Burger King.


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RE: OMG.. Another US corporate Tax Inversion!!! - 8/25/2014 12:47:08 PM   
freedomdwarf1


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quote:

ORIGINAL: mnottertail

We should substantially increase taxes on these foreign based corporations, such as Burger King.

Burger King
Corporate Offices:
Burger King Worldwide
5505 Blue Lagoon Drive
Miami, FL 33126
(305) 378-3000
In 2010, 3G Capital, a global multi-million dollar investment firm focused on long term value creation, purchased Burger King Corporation, making it a privately-held company.

3G Capital
3G Capital was founded in late 2004, building on the original New York investment office of the firm's principals: Jorge Paulo Lemann, Marcel Telles, and Carlos Alberto Sicupira.

It sounds pretty much all-American to me
How are they 'foreign based corporations' Ron??


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RE: OMG.. Another US corporate Tax Inversion!!! - 8/25/2014 12:53:56 PM   
mnottertail


Posts: 60698
Joined: 11/3/2004
Status: offline 		The firm has offices in NYC and Rio De Janiro.

50% foreign, 50% tax raise from maximum US tax rate.

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RE: OMG.. Another US corporate Tax Inversion!!! - 8/25/2014 1:11:10 PM   
freedomdwarf1


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quote:

ORIGINAL: mnottertail

The firm has offices in NYC and Rio De Janiro.

50% foreign, 50% tax raise from maximum US tax rate.

BK have something like 11 million outlets.
I'd hazard a guess that they've got offices in just about every country they operate in just like McD's and coca-cola have.

That said, I believe there's a collective move (certainly by the Europeans) to close those sort of tax loopholes so that multi-national corporations pay their fair share of taxes no matter where they try and hide the profits.
Google, Amazon, all the big fast-food chains etc are facing some tough tax legislation over here.
Maybe the rest of the 1st-world nations should follow up??

Though to be honest, as you rightly pointed out, whatever we tax them at they'll only pass that cost down to the consumer.


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RE: OMG.. Another US corporate Tax Inversion!!! - 8/25/2014 1:36:00 PM   
eulero83


Posts: 1470
Joined: 11/4/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: freedomdwarf1


quote:

ORIGINAL: mnottertail

We should substantially increase taxes on these foreign based corporations, such as Burger King.

Burger King
Corporate Offices:
Burger King Worldwide
5505 Blue Lagoon Drive
Miami, FL 33126
(305) 378-3000
In 2010, 3G Capital, a global multi-million dollar investment firm focused on long term value creation, purchased Burger King Corporation, making it a privately-held company.

3G Capital
3G Capital was founded in late 2004, building on the original New York investment office of the firm's principals: Jorge Paulo Lemann, Marcel Telles, and Carlos Alberto Sicupira.

It sounds pretty much all-American to me
How are they 'foreign based corporations' Ron??



Steven Colbert explained it some days ago, as I understood it, foreign corporations that decide to operate and create jobs in USA have a very high amount of incentives in fiscal cuts. So some american corporations are buying smaller foreign companies that operate in the same sector and than declare it's the foreign company to own the american one, so they elude taxes in the USA.

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RE: OMG.. Another US corporate Tax Inversion!!! - 8/25/2014 1:39:03 PM   
DesideriScuri


Posts: 12225
Joined: 1/18/2012
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Zonie63
quote:

ORIGINAL: tj444
So Burger King is doing a tax inversion to escape high US taxes.. its buying Tim Hortons.. and moving to the "tax haven" known as.. umm.. Canada.. whodathunkit????
http://www.businessinsider.com/burger-king-shares-are-surging-2014-8
and then there is this..
"According to a recent KPMG study, Canada is one of the most business-friendly countries in the world. At least, when you look at the total tax cost for companies operating in some of the world's biggest economies.
This table from KPMG shows the corporate tax rate in Canada is 26.5%, which compares with 40% for the U.S."
http://finance.yahoo.com/news/canada-most-business-friendly-tax-125946388.html
My comment is tongue n cheek as I never considered Canada to be a low tax country..

Yes, and reading that table comparing the different tax rates was rather interesting. Sweden's rate of 22% was even lower, as well as a number of other European countries which have lower rates than that of the United States (including France and the UK). However, there's also a table on individual tax rates.
According to the tables, the Canadian corporate tax rate was 36.1% in 2006, while ours was at 40% constant from 2006-14. (It doesn't appear that politics or which party was in power had any effect on this rate.) The Canadian rate has come down to where it's now at 26.5%. If they're looking for a real bargain in taxes, they should set up their headquarters in Bosnia or Paraguay, where the rate is only 10%. Russia's rate is 20% and China's is 25%.
I don't suppose this means that Burger King will be passing on this savings to their customers.


An investment consultant on the local drive-time radio show commented on this today. The tax improvement wasn't the only reason for the inversion, else those other countries would have made a better choice, as you stated. The merger would make BK the 3rd largest fast food chain in the world, would open up possibilities for cross-marketing, cross-promotions, and Tim Hortons is already in grocery stores, giving BK a potential "foot in the door" to growing that segment.

While the 13.5% tax change is certainly desirable, it wasn't the only reason behind the potential acquisition.


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RE: OMG.. Another US corporate Tax Inversion!!! - 8/25/2014 1:55:30 PM   
freedomdwarf1


Posts: 6845
Joined: 10/23/2012
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: eulero83


quote:

ORIGINAL: freedomdwarf1


quote:

ORIGINAL: mnottertail

We should substantially increase taxes on these foreign based corporations, such as Burger King.

Burger King
Corporate Offices:
Burger King Worldwide
5505 Blue Lagoon Drive
Miami, FL 33126
(305) 378-3000
In 2010, 3G Capital, a global multi-million dollar investment firm focused on long term value creation, purchased Burger King Corporation, making it a privately-held company.

3G Capital
3G Capital was founded in late 2004, building on the original New York investment office of the firm's principals: Jorge Paulo Lemann, Marcel Telles, and Carlos Alberto Sicupira.

It sounds pretty much all-American to me
How are they 'foreign based corporations' Ron??



Steven Colbert explained it some days ago, as I understood it, foreign corporations that decide to operate and create jobs in USA have a very high amount of incentives in fiscal cuts. So some american corporations are buying smaller foreign companies that operate in the same sector and than declare it's the foreign company to own the american one, so they elude taxes in the USA.

And that's one of the loopholes they are trying to close across Europe.

I can't remember which one it was (Amazon?) that has it's fiscal operations based in Ireland to avoid big UK taxes.
From what I can vaguely remember, the European governments are putting in new tax laws that effectively state that any trading in X country should pay the corporation tax of the country where the sales were sourced.
In other words, if you made £23million in sales within the UK, that's £23million's worth of UK corporation tax you pay to the UK treasury regardless of whether your transaction processing goes via Ireland (or anywhere else for that matter) to pay a lower tax rate.
That's how these multi-nationals are getting away with the tax dodging.

I think the US should do the same thing with BK and all the other US multi-nationals.
If BK make $270million in US sales, they should pay US corporation tax on those sales and not claim that it is owned/operated by a company based in Canada so they can pay a much lower rate.
Let's face it, they aren't going to suddenly start paying ground rent or wages in CAD$ are they?! No, they won't; so why should the tax bill be based on anything different than the currency their outlets are located at??

Makes sense to me at least.


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RE: OMG.. Another US corporate Tax Inversion!!! - 8/25/2014 1:57:04 PM   
MrRodgers


Posts: 10542
Joined: 7/30/2005
Status: offline 		First of all...ALL costs are passed on to the consumer...all costs. That includes all of the profits of their suppliers, all of their wages and internal costs and wages...so there is no distinction to be made by making such a statement.

What is the most relevant figure to use for comparison ? AETR the Average Effective Tax Rate.

In the US the AETR has fluctuated between 10 and 13 % over the last several years and when compared to foreign countries is the 11th lowest out of 27 nations.

The power of tax lobbying:

Per the IRS: Since the Tax Reform Act of 1986, new corporate tax preferences have widened the gap between gross income and taxable income. In 1987, gross corporate profits reported on tax returns were $328 billion and taxable income was $312 billion. Thus since 1987, taxable income has fallen to 68 percent from 95 percent of gross income. (taxing 2 out of three dollars instead of 95 out of 100 dollars)

Remember the great tax reform of 1986 ? Well don't trust any reform as I've been trying to tell you. There have been 1500 tax code changes SINCE reform and you see the result.


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RE: OMG.. Another US corporate Tax Inversion!!! - 8/25/2014 2:11:14 PM   
freedomdwarf1


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Joined: 10/23/2012
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quote:

ORIGINAL: MrRodgers
First of all...ALL costs are passed on to the consumer...all costs. That includes all of the profits of their suppliers, all of their wages and internal costs and wages...so there is no distinction to be made by making such a statement.

Unless you are running a lost-leader promo, that's a given no matter what country you operate in.

quote:

ORIGINAL: MrRodgers
In the US the AETR has fluctuated between 10 and 13 % over the last several years and when compared to foreign countries is the 11th lowest out of 27 nations.

If that were the case, they wouldn't be doing a tax inversion dodging tactic would they.

quote:

ORIGINAL: MrRodgers
Remember the great tax reform of 1986 ?

Ummmm.... Nope. I'm not an American or based in the US.


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RE: OMG.. Another US corporate Tax Inversion!!! - 8/25/2014 2:41:22 PM   
mnottertail


Posts: 60698
Joined: 11/3/2004
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quote:

ORIGINAL: freedomdwarf1
quote:

ORIGINAL: MrRodgers
In the US the AETR has fluctuated between 10 and 13 % over the last several years and when compared to foreign countries is the 11th lowest out of 27 nations.

If that were the case, they wouldn't be doing a tax inversion dodging tactic would they.


Yeah, they might, based on projected outcomes, if they are betting on the come that this corporate welfare backlash is gonna wanna be paid for, getting the fuck out of dodge would be a good dodge. Looks like here they are paying around 22.5% or so taxes, hard to determine.

http://www.marketwatch.com/investing/stock/bkw/financials (they aint real forthcoming about all the stuff)

but here is some more skinny on it (who knows if these guys are in the know, they talk a good game)

http://www.alternet.org/corporate-accountability-and-workplace/burger-king-may-leave-us-and-dodge-paying-taxes

But they mention in there that the average corporat actual tax rate is around 12% which we have all found to be true. Any other percentage thrown out there than the ACTUAL is asswipe in and of itself.

< Message edited by mnottertail -- 8/25/2014 2:44:25 PM >

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RE: OMG.. Another US corporate Tax Inversion!!! - 8/25/2014 2:45:05 PM   
freedomdwarf1


Posts: 6845
Joined: 10/23/2012
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: mnottertail


quote:

ORIGINAL: freedomdwarf1
quote:

ORIGINAL: MrRodgers
In the US the AETR has fluctuated between 10 and 13 % over the last several years and when compared to foreign countries is the 11th lowest out of 27 nations.

If that were the case, they wouldn't be doing a tax inversion dodging tactic would they.


Yeah, they might, based on projected outcomes, if they are betting on the come that this corporate welfare backlash is gonna wanna be paid for, getting the fuck out of dodge would be a good dodge. Looks like here they are paying around 22.5% or so taxes, hard to determine.

http://www.marketwatch.com/investing/stock/bkw/financials (they aint real forthcoming about all the stuff)


But if they got smacked with the full US tax rate on US sales they wouldn't have to play dodgems with the IRS would they.


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RE: OMG.. Another US corporate Tax Inversion!!! - 8/25/2014 2:50:56 PM   
mnottertail


Posts: 60698
Joined: 11/3/2004
Status: offline 		Thats the piece I could see as good lovin.

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