RE: Another pointless gun death. (Full Version)

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quizzicalkitten -> RE: Another pointless gun death. (8/28/2014 5:03:17 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: freedomdwarf1


quote:

ORIGINAL: quizzicalkitten
Yeah READ further

In the 2009 Kids’ Inpatient Database (KID), 7,391 children under the age of 20 had been hospitalized for injuries from firearms and the majority of those gunshot injuries —4,559—resulted from intentional firearm assaults. 2,149 of those injured were accidents, and 270 were suicide attempts. Of the children who were hospitalized, 453 – 6% – died from their injuries.


The more important thing is at 18 kids arent children any more in america they are adults... so that throws the numbers completely out of the water because your including people who arent kids

No one has said gun deaths dont happen, just that other deaths are more prevalent and no ones whining about those....

And read even further.... "All are unnecessary hospitalizations because preventing gun violence is something that can actually be done."
-and-
"Webster also compared the U.S.’ standing with other high income nations and pointed out that the mortality rate from firearms in the U.S. is nearly 10 times higher than the rates in other wealthy nations. “This is a very unique and abnormal problem that such a wealthy nation should have such high mortality and morbidity in youth related to firearms,” he said.";
and further... "After the devastating tragedy at Sandy Hook in December 2012, the gun policy debate intensified, coinciding with the rising number of children killed by guns in the U.S. every year. In the first 14 school days of 2014, there have been at least 7 school shootings: at Wakefield Elementary School in Calif., Berrendo Middle School in New Mexico, Liberty Technology High School in Tenn., Albany High School in Georgia, Delaware Valley Charter School in Penn., Widener University in Penn., and most recently, Purdue University in Indiana. In 2013, there were 28 school shootings.

The American Academy of Pediatrics wrote in 2012 that “firearm-related deaths continue as 1 of the top 3 causes of death in American youth."
"

I'd say that was fairly significant.
Slice the cake any way you like, that's a whole lot more than anywhere else in the world and all down to the liberal gun policy that the US have.




Give me the numbers on kid under 10 because those are children here... then give the numbers of 11 to 18 those are teens, then give the numbers of how many are over 18

Because heres the thing...

Today alone over 9 "kids" died in gang banging shootings in a 50 mile radius to me... most were over 15 and killing to show their dicks were big enough to be a member of a gang

You have to understand gun deaths and what their reasoning is, to start giving comparisons.

You also cant count legal adults (even at 15 they can be charged and held culpable as legal adults) with kids 10 and under.





Politesub53 -> RE: Another pointless gun death. (8/28/2014 5:05:29 PM)

quote:

Bama.

And at the end of the study he admits that he decided on the outcome and then gathered stats in the hopes that the unthinking would accept his study as being unbiased.


Does anyone care to point out where he admits any such thing ?




BamaD -> RE: Another pointless gun death. (8/28/2014 5:08:42 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: PeonForHer


quote:

Oh well if they only know about 1400 underage girls sold as sex slaves with those magnificent cops of yours looking the other way it's no problem. By all means return to telling the Americans how much better you are.


Jesus, Bama. If you never learn anything else from a non-American - please, please learn this: Americans *do not get* to play the 'oppressed' card any more. Re Brits, particularly, it's now centuries out of date. It's seriously beyond pathetic.

How many times do I have to tell you that I don't feel the least little bit oppressed by representatives from a worn out and decadent society but don't be so stupid as to think any one can't see that blatant stench of arrogance that surrounds someone like freedom.




freedomdwarf1 -> RE: Another pointless gun death. (8/28/2014 5:09:02 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: quizzicalkitten
Give me the numbers on kid under 10 because those are children here... then give the numbers of 11 to 18 those are teens, then give the numbers of how many are over 18

Because heres the thing...

Today alone over 9 "kids" died in gang banging shootings in a 50 mile radius to me... most were over 15 and killing to show their dicks were big enough to be a member of a gang

You have to understand gun deaths and what their reasoning is, to start giving comparisons.

You also cant count legal adults (even at 15 they can be charged and held culpable as legal adults) with kids 10 and under.

The study states "children under the age of 20".
I don't need to break that down any further.

Compare it to anywhere else - the figures are staggering in comparison, no matter what age group you care to pull out of your hat.




thompsonx -> RE: Another pointless gun death. (8/28/2014 5:11:22 PM)


ORIGINAL: freedomdwarf1


I'd say that was fairly significant.


Ok...significant as to what? Consider that castro has armed everyone in cuba and given them ammo just in case the u.s. renigs on it's promise/treaty to not attack cuba. They do not seem to have a gun violence problem.
Consider switzerland...same same???
So perhaps simple gun ownership is not necessaril the issue or the determining factor.
Consider why the second ammendment was created? I seriously doubt that you do. If you know about the 14th ammendment then you may begin to understand the dynamic. The very people who were ment to be controlled by the use of firearms now have the right to possess those self same items[:D]...oh my. Unless of course you happen to be a felon then not so much. What do you figure the felony rate is amongst the non white population of the u.s.?



Slice the cake any way you like, that's a whole lot more than anywhere else in the world and all down to the liberal gun policy that the US have.

No it ain't






freedomdwarf1 -> RE: Another pointless gun death. (8/28/2014 5:12:30 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: BamaD
...that blatant stench of arrogance that surrounds someone like freedom.

Not arrogance, Bama.
Just pointing out the stupidity of the laws (and a lot of people) in the US with myopic views and stubborn beligerance.

Just look at the figures.
As I pointed out in another thread, even O'Bama is saying it's not right.




quizzicalkitten -> RE: Another pointless gun death. (8/28/2014 5:16:30 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: freedomdwarf1


quote:

ORIGINAL: quizzicalkitten
Give me the numbers on kid under 10 because those are children here... then give the numbers of 11 to 18 those are teens, then give the numbers of how many are over 18

Because heres the thing...

Today alone over 9 "kids" died in gang banging shootings in a 50 mile radius to me... most were over 15 and killing to show their dicks were big enough to be a member of a gang

You have to understand gun deaths and what their reasoning is, to start giving comparisons.

You also cant count legal adults (even at 15 they can be charged and held culpable as legal adults) with kids 10 and under.

The study states "children under the age of 20".
I don't need to break that down any further.

Compare it to anywhere else - the figures are staggering in comparison, no matter what age group you care to pull out of your hat.




Whats the legal age of an adult in the United states?

What... 18....

SO if your numbers are... GASP including those that are over that age your numbers arent fact....

Heres some important information the article forgets to include...

84% of the injured "children" were between the ages of 15 and 20.

In 2011, guns were used to murder 8,583 people living in the U.S., according to the most recent FBI data available. Among those murdered by guns, there were 565 young people under the age of 18, and 119 children ages 12 or younger --

Dats a whole fuck load a lot less then 3k.... Hmmm Skewed numbers... WHAT never....

Try dis... it might help..

http://www.childdeathreview.org/nationalchildmortalitydata.htm




freedomdwarf1 -> RE: Another pointless gun death. (8/28/2014 5:18:19 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: thompsonx
ORIGINAL: freedomdwarf1
I'd say that was fairly significant.


Ok...significant as to what? Consider that castro has armed everyone in cuba and given them ammo just in case the u.s. renigs on it's promise/treaty to not attack cuba. They do not seem to have a gun violence problem.

Exactly... so the problem is the US and the way they implemented the shit.


quote:

ORIGINAL: thompsonx
Consider why the second ammendment was created? I seriously doubt that you do. If you know about the 14th ammendment then you may begin to understand the dynamic. The very people who were ment to be controlled by the use of firearms now have the right to possess those self same items[:D]...oh my. Unless of course you happen to be a felon then not so much. What do you figure the felony rate is amongst the non white population of the u.s.?

I don't care about colour issues or the imbalance - I take the figures as a whole, not by colour of skin.


quote:

ORIGINAL: thompsonx
Slice the cake any way you like, that's a whole lot more than anywhere else in the world and all down to the liberal gun policy that the US have.

No it ain't

Care to show anywhere else in the first-world countries where gun deaths are any higher than the US???




subrosaDom -> RE: Another pointless gun death. (8/28/2014 5:18:53 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: ThatDaveGuy69

Yeah, ya got yer Inquisition, but let's not forget The Crusades and the Dark Ages in general.
More recently, you've got The Vatican's complicity with the Nazis in WWII; that whole dead, unwanted babies thing in Ireland; pedophile priests; and the ever-popular Xian Taliban - the folks who like to bomb abortion clinics and murder doctors.
Sure, xianity has grown up/matured a bit and Islam has a LONG way to go to catch up, but from a historical perspective I can't tell with side is worse.
Bottom line: religion ruins everything.

But again, it's a discussion for a different topic/thread.


Dave, I'm an atheist, so you're not going to get a lot of defense of religion from me. Although, I think there is some merit, literary and otherwise, in certain things certain religious say. The Crusades weren't as one sided as you may think. The Muslims weren't really friendly either. As far as the Christian Taliban goes -- the number of Christian who have actually bombed abortion clinics and murdered doctors is extremely small and moreover, almost every Christian group has condemned their actions. If Muslims condemned terrorists the way Christians condemned the bombers and murderers, I'd have no problem. But they don't. Most are silent.

I don't think Taoism ruins much. The Tao Te Ching is in fact very rational. But then it doesn't require a God.

Islam will never catch up, because it has an epistemology of 100% faith. Catholicism rests today on Aquinas, who advocated reason. Once you exclude science and reason completely, you only have delusions and paranoia. And there ain't no Islamic Aquinas around.




BamaD -> RE: Another pointless gun death. (8/28/2014 5:19:53 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: freedomdwarf1


quote:

ORIGINAL: quizzicalkitten
Give me the numbers on kid under 10 because those are children here... then give the numbers of 11 to 18 those are teens, then give the numbers of how many are over 18

Because heres the thing...

Today alone over 9 "kids" died in gang banging shootings in a 50 mile radius to me... most were over 15 and killing to show their dicks were big enough to be a member of a gang

You have to understand gun deaths and what their reasoning is, to start giving comparisons.

You also cant count legal adults (even at 15 they can be charged and held culpable as legal adults) with kids 10 and under.

The study states "children under the age of 20".
I don't need to break that down any further.

Compare it to anywhere else - the figures are staggering in comparison, no matter what age group you care to pull out of your hat.


you do if you want it to mean anything




freedomdwarf1 -> RE: Another pointless gun death. (8/28/2014 5:21:30 PM)

Try debunking the report then.

There are a lot of things in the US that you aren't allowed to do until you're 21.
So I guess that's why they quoted figures for those 'under 20'.

Hey, I didn't write the report!!!
If you wanna nit-pick - find a different report and show the figures here to support it.




PeonForHer -> RE: Another pointless gun death. (8/28/2014 5:21:44 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: quizzicalkitten


quote:

ORIGINAL: PeonForHer

quote:

Ask Rich, he bought the topic up, no one else.


Weird, isn't it? We Brits being accused of bringing up the Rotherham Paedo scandal here? Well, I guess people will read through this thread - or not - and see what they want to see.



I guess this is an example of reading comprehension in action, great schools ya got there peon...

No your accused of worrying more about us across the pond then the own tragedies happening in your back yard because us gun toting ebil doers are more important then your children being sold as sex slaves...

But please do continue to tell us how we need to regulate our guns while your children are subjected to torture and horror... America is much more important then that...


Ah - I see what you're saying, now. Thank you. However, unfortunately, your points are too stupid for me to want to respond to them. I hope that helps, QK.




freedomdwarf1 -> RE: Another pointless gun death. (8/28/2014 5:23:08 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: BamaD
you do if you want it to mean anything

Then find a report to debunk the figures.




BamaD -> RE: Another pointless gun death. (8/28/2014 5:23:37 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: freedomdwarf1


quote:

ORIGINAL: BamaD
...that blatant stench of arrogance that surrounds someone like freedom.

Not arrogance, Bama.
Just pointing out the stupidity of the laws (and a lot of people) in the US with myopic views and stubborn beligerance.

Just look at the figures.
As I pointed out in another thread, even O'Bama is saying it's not right.


Yes Milord you are not arrogant merely attempting to educate the ignorant masses. (to most that means you are arrogant)
And as I pointed out Obama has decried America and wants to turn it into a different country so his view is almost as meaningless to me as yours.




subrosaDom -> RE: Another poitless gun death. (8/28/2014 5:24:27 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Lucylastic

FR

Cars and poisons and pools, fires, stabbings, beatings, domestic abuse, drugs, rapes, accidents with power tools ,stupid parents, abusive parents, negligent adults, ignorant neighbours and curious children happen everywhere, in every country every day.
Humans are stupid.
There are regulations made covering safety issues when they become problematic or a solution is found to lessen the harm caused.
That a huge number of people dont get why others get upset angry, passionate about the pointless preventable deaths caused by idiots with guns. And especially those who have no desire to see a change in laws, OR enforcement of laws in place to lessen the harm done by idiots with guns is selfish, shortsighted and ignorant especially when they pretend (to themselves mostly) they have never done anything stupid/careless or thoughtless in their lives.



Well, plenty of women have died having legal abortions. Not a high percentage of course. But certainly death is a risk just as it is with childbirth. So should we ban abortions? Or restrict them more? Then each time something happens, we can restrict them further. Eventually, they are so restricted that it's impossible to obtain one. But you wouldn't make that argument since you're pro-abortion, I believe. Because you don't want creeping encroachment of rights.

What's sauce for the goose ...





subrosaDom -> RE: Another poitless gun death. (8/28/2014 5:27:49 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Gauge


quote:

ORIGINAL: quizzicalkitten

But history has shown it never stops at just X reason. When one ban is in place over something it s easier to pass bans on other things and the next thing you know no guns are allowed to anyone ever because of something stupid a parent did.

More kids die of ingesting poison but I don't see laws regulating bleach or bug spray? Why because we don't hold every person responsible for one idiots mistake. Allowing a gun ban even if it's reasonable is punishing everyone else for one parents mistake.



Oh bullshit. The fact is that there are regulations all around you that apply to everyone because of a scant few idiots. This is almost always the case with these overzealous gun owners who decry any form of regulatory legislation. Guns have regulations already. It is so amusing to watch people go, "Well, once we allow one regulation, no one will have guns." which is fucking bullshit.

Why don't we allow a 3 year old to drive? Because we have an age limit on who can legally drive cars, did it lead to people not owning or driving a car? Of course not. I am all for private and responsible gun ownership, the logic that has been drilled into some people by the likes of the NRA is ludicrous. It is the reactionary rhetoric that sells guns.



I disagree. The original income tax was 1 or 2%. Looks pretty good now. The original Social Security Tax was minimal. How about now? The original EPA regulations were small. How about now? Regulations, being a product of the Leviathan, i.e., government, almost always trend toward more control, not less. Whether it's guns, taxes, abortion, fishing, having kids run lemonade stands, etc. The secular trend is more regulations, less freedom. The domino is that first regulation. There is a fundamental difference between something unregulated (how you choose to cut your hair, for example) and something even mildly regulated. Regulations beget more and before you know it you are reading the Old Testament except that instead of John begat Jacob it's Regulation 29A.E.24.111b begat 29A.E.24.111c.




kdsub -> RE: Another poitless gun death. (8/28/2014 5:42:40 PM)

You didn't say anything stupid... I think you should realize that political action needs to be taken to protect children... not just Arizona but the hundreds that are killed and maimed each year.

How else except through legislation can responsibilities be forced on careless gun owners?

Butch




Kirata -> RE: Another poitless gun death. (8/28/2014 5:42:48 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Politesub53

More stubborn facts. http://www.msnbc.com/the-last-word/the-toll-gun-violence-children

New York City homicide data for the years 2003 through 2011 show that the perpetrators were 61% black, 29% hispanic, and only 7% white. In Chicago, predominantly white Lincoln Park has only 1/10th the homicide rate of the black West Side. St. Louis shows the same all too common pattern. And as one might expect, the study you linked of child firearm injuries reports that black males outnumber whites by a factor of ten. So yes, there is clearly a problem here. But it is neither guns nor traditional American culture.

K.





BamaD -> RE: Another pointless gun death. (8/28/2014 5:45:52 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: freedomdwarf1

Try debunking the report then.

There are a lot of things in the US that you aren't allowed to do until you're 21.
So I guess that's why they quoted figures for those 'under 20'.

Hey, I didn't write the report!!!
If you wanna nit-pick - find a different report and show the figures here to support it.

the writer admitted to coming to the conclusion and to compiling stats to prove a point. He debunked himself with that statement, and it is in the report.




kdsub -> RE: Another poitless gun death. (8/28/2014 5:48:50 PM)

quote:

But it is neither guns nor traditional American culture.


I sure wish you could tell me what it is then.... I don't mean this question to be smart ass I am just curious what you think...in a few words.

Butch




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