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Another pointless gun death. - 8/27/2014 12:42:04 PM   
Politesub53


Posts: 14862
Joined: 5/7/2007
Status: offline 		It is tragic that someone has needlessly died in an accident. What the hell are grown ups doing let a nine year old fire an Uzi, under any circumstances. Families of those involved will have to try and live with the consequences. How the young girl will ever cope with such an awful memory is beyond me.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-28948946

Edited for spelling error in title and to fix link.

< Message edited by Politesub53 -- 8/27/2014 12:53:47 PM >
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RE: Another poitless gun death. - 8/27/2014 12:48:42 PM   
Gauge


Posts: 5689
Joined: 6/17/2005
Status: offline 		File this under the category of it didn't have to happen. Why an adult would give a 9 year old an Uzi to shoot is way beyond my comprehension, and why the instructor let her fire it on her own without his hand on the weapon is even more baffling.

I am all for teaching gun safety to kids, but an Uzi is not a weapon a kid would fire normally anyway. Thank the parents for this kid having to deal with killing someone, even if it was an accident.

Oh, and fix your link.

< Message edited by Gauge -- 8/27/2014 12:49:05 PM >

_____________________________

"For there is no folly of the beast of the earth which is not infinitely outdone by the madness of men." Herman Melville - Moby Dick

I'm wearing my chicken suit and humming La Marseillaise.

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RE: Another poitless gun death. - 8/27/2014 12:53:32 PM   
CreativeDominant


Posts: 11032
Joined: 3/11/2006
Status: offline 		Once against...it comes down to having the brain and the sense of responsibility that goes...or should go... along with being an adult.

< Message edited by CreativeDominant -- 8/27/2014 12:54:23 PM >

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RE: Another poitless gun death. - 8/27/2014 12:56:15 PM   
Politesub53


Posts: 14862
Joined: 5/7/2007
Status: offline 		I am okay with kids being taught how to handle guns once old enough, but not an Uzi or similar.

Gauge, I agree about the parents and thanks for pointing out the error with my link.

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RE: Another poitless gun death. - 8/27/2014 1:11:59 PM   
SeekingTrinity


Posts: 1834
Joined: 5/29/2012
From: The 'burbs of Portland, OR
Status: offline 		This was an extremely stupid decision on the part of the adult, which the victim and the child have to pay for. I can't handle firing an Uzi myself...and I'm a 40-year-old woman. Who in the hell thinks a 9-year-old child could handle that kind of firepower?!? Absolutely ridiculous. I too am all for teaching children gun safety. In fact, my 10-year-old just went through a gun safety program. I myself do not own weapons, but the emphasis of the program was to demystify guns and essentially teach them to leave the gun alone and inform an adult if the children encounter a gun...like at a friend's house.

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RE: Another poitless gun death. - 8/27/2014 1:39:23 PM   
Kirata


Posts: 15477
Joined: 2/11/2006
From: USA
Status: offline
~ FR ~

BBC coverage, including a video snip, is here. The girl appears to handle the Uzi well as she's asked to squeeze off a single shot. But whether by intention or accident, the selector got shifted to auto for a subsequent firing and under full-auto fire she lost control of the weapon. The range operator said this was the first incident they've had in the entire 12 years the range has been in existence.

Why did you pick this isolated tragic accident to post about instead of pointless gun deaths like Antonio Smith?

K.





< Message edited by Kirata -- 8/27/2014 1:49:55 PM >

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RE: Another poitless gun death. - 8/27/2014 3:52:39 PM   
PeonForHer


Posts: 19612
Joined: 9/27/2008
Status: offline 		That story seems to be too new at this time for any idea of motive, K. But, yes, it is absolutely gobsmacking.

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RE: Another poitless gun death. - 8/27/2014 4:04:05 PM   
BamaD


Posts: 20687
Joined: 2/27/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: PeonForHer

That story seems to be too new at this time for any idea of motive, K. But, yes, it is absolutely gobsmacking.

And this thread is another cruel attempt to take advantage of a stupid senseless accident to score political points.

_____________________________

Government ranges from a necessary evil to an intolerable one. Thomas Paine

People don't believe they can defend themselves because they have guns, they have guns because they believe they can defend themselves.

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RE: Another poitless gun death. - 8/27/2014 4:06:30 PM   
mnottertail


Posts: 60698
Joined: 11/3/2004
Status: offline 		as are all the other mow downs by cops, or in colorado, or in texas, or in..........

and then yell second amendment, and I guess they would die by a spoon, anyway.

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RE: Another poitless gun death. - 8/27/2014 4:06:55 PM   
Politesub53


Posts: 14862
Joined: 5/7/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Kirata


~ FR ~

BBC coverage, including a video snip, is here. The girl appears to handle the Uzi well as she's asked to squeeze off a single shot. But whether by intention or accident, the selector got shifted to auto for a subsequent firing and under full-auto fire she lost control of the weapon. The range operator said this was the first incident they've had in the entire 12 years the range has been in existence.

Why did you pick this isolated tragic accident to post about instead of pointless gun deaths like Antonio Smith?

K.






I dont need your permission brains but let me spell it out for you. I picked out this story today, because it was on the BBC web site today. I hope thats helpful enough.

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RE: Another poitless gun death. - 8/27/2014 4:09:41 PM   
joether


Posts: 5195
Joined: 7/24/2005
Status: offline 		Hey guys we have ourselves a 2014 Darwin Award contestant!

Who the hell gives a 9 year old an Uzi or any other powerful firearm? The ones without common sense in their head! Which just goes to prove how much common sense is in people with firearms, right? And not surprising all the gun nuts in forums across the blog-o-sphere are defending the 'right' to allow such a practice to stay unrestricted. On this forum, I'm sure we'll have a couple of those gun nuts defending this silly and stupid practice as well! This is something that should be outlawed. The reason such a law has never been placed is because people thought such stupidity would never find its way to any sort of gun range. Apparently, 'we the people...' were wrong, and such restrictions will have to be placed into law. Not so much because the more liberal side of this nation's people want it, but the insurance companies demand it!

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RE: Another poitless gun death. - 8/27/2014 4:10:54 PM   
Politesub53


Posts: 14862
Joined: 5/7/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: BamaD

And this thread is another cruel attempt to take advantage of a stupid senseless accident to score political points.


Fuck you. Its nothing of the kind.

Yes, I know you have me on hide but when you can work out the difference between trying to score points and posting about a tragic accident, I might just start giving you a bit more credit. I know it wont happen but one can hope.

(in reply to BamaD)
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RE: Another poitless gun death. - 8/27/2014 4:12:27 PM   
BamaD


Posts: 20687
Joined: 2/27/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: PeonForHer

That story seems to be too new at this time for any idea of motive, K. But, yes, it is absolutely gobsmacking.

There was no motive, it was a stupid accident.

_____________________________

Government ranges from a necessary evil to an intolerable one. Thomas Paine

People don't believe they can defend themselves because they have guns, they have guns because they believe they can defend themselves.

(in reply to PeonForHer)
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RE: Another poitless gun death. - 8/27/2014 4:20:13 PM   
BamaD


Posts: 20687
Joined: 2/27/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: joether

Hey guys we have ourselves a 2014 Darwin Award contestant!

Who the hell gives a 9 year old an Uzi or any other powerful firearm? The ones without common sense in their head! Which just goes to prove how much common sense is in people with firearms, right? And not surprising all the gun nuts in forums across the blog-o-sphere are defending the 'right' to allow such a practice to stay unrestricted. On this forum, I'm sure we'll have a couple of those gun nuts defending this silly and stupid practice as well! This is something that should be outlawed. The reason such a law has never been placed is because people thought such stupidity would never find its way to any sort of gun range. Apparently, 'we the people...' were wrong, and such restrictions will have to be placed into law. Not so much because the more liberal side of this nation's people want it, but the insurance companies demand it!

Wrong as always none of us are saying this was even close to a reasonable move. Started my kid out on a single shot. Only the very experienced should fire a full auto, even if when they first get it it is set to semi .
This is just a typical attempt to take advantage of someones tragedy to attack gun owners score political points and get free shots attacking arguments that no half way intelligent person would believe will be forthcoming. But why should knowing that nobody will the argument keep you from trashing everyone you disagree with for saying it. And since it would never come you can't wait for the statements on our part.

_____________________________

Government ranges from a necessary evil to an intolerable one. Thomas Paine

People don't believe they can defend themselves because they have guns, they have guns because they believe they can defend themselves.

(in reply to joether)
Profile   Post #: 14
RE: Another poitless gun death. - 8/27/2014 4:23:28 PM   
joether


Posts: 5195
Joined: 7/24/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: BamaD
quote:

ORIGINAL: PeonForHer
That story seems to be too new at this time for any idea of motive, K. But, yes, it is absolutely gobsmacking.

And this thread is another cruel attempt to take advantage of a stupid senseless accident to score political points.


Oh yeah, because there have not been.....any....threads on here in which the gun nuts have stated 'If that person only had a gun, things would have been different'. Go right a head, BamaD....TRY....to bullshit to all of us that has...NEVER...happened on this forum. If its 'ok' for you to do it, its 'ok' for others to do it as well. And you don't like it; well....tough shit!

No, this thread is pointing out....YOU DONT GIVE FIREARMS TO CHILDREN.....

Particularly ones that are powerful. I would think most firearm owners would never do such a think for pretty obvious reasons. But that is the problem, the remainder would do it. And therein lies the problem. And why laws get created. Why are there stickers on large, bulky, vending machines that say 'do not tip'? Why are you told 'keep head, arms, and legs inside the vehicle at all times'? Why are we told not to takes prescription drugs that were not prescribed to us by a certified medical person? Most people can understand the reason why you don't give a 9 year old girl (or boy) a powerful firearm. Unfortunately, the remainder doesn't. And that's why laws get created. To create a punishment in the hopes the would-be offender doesn't take the action.




(in reply to BamaD)
Profile   Post #: 15
RE: Another poitless gun death. - 8/27/2014 4:27:50 PM   
Politesub53


Posts: 14862
Joined: 5/7/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: BamaD

Wrong as always none of us are saying this was even close to a reasonable move. Started my kid out on a single shot. Only the very experienced should fire a full auto, even if when they first get it it is set to semi .
This is just a typical attempt to take advantage of someones tragedy to attack gun owners score political points and get free shots attacking arguments that no half way intelligent person would believe will be forthcoming. But why should knowing that nobody will the argument keep you from trashing everyone you disagree with for saying it. And since it would never come you can't wait for the statements on our part.


If anyone wishes to quote anything from the OP where I attacked anything other than the stupidity of letting a nine year old handle an Uzi, please get back to me.

(in reply to BamaD)
Profile   Post #: 16
RE: Another poitless gun death. - 8/27/2014 4:29:54 PM   
joether


Posts: 5195
Joined: 7/24/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: BamaD
quote:

ORIGINAL: joether
Hey guys we have ourselves a 2014 Darwin Award contestant!

Who the hell gives a 9 year old an Uzi or any other powerful firearm? The ones without common sense in their head! Which just goes to prove how much common sense is in people with firearms, right? And not surprising all the gun nuts in forums across the blog-o-sphere are defending the 'right' to allow such a practice to stay unrestricted. On this forum, I'm sure we'll have a couple of those gun nuts defending this silly and stupid practice as well! This is something that should be outlawed. The reason such a law has never been placed is because people thought such stupidity would never find its way to any sort of gun range. Apparently, 'we the people...' were wrong, and such restrictions will have to be placed into law. Not so much because the more liberal side of this nation's people want it, but the insurance companies demand it!

Wrong as always none of us are saying this was even close to a reasonable move. Started my kid out on a single shot. Only the very experienced should fire a full auto, even if when they first get it it is set to semi .
This is just a typical attempt to take advantage of someones tragedy to attack gun owners score political points and get free shots attacking arguments that no half way intelligent person would believe will be forthcoming. But why should knowing that nobody will the argument keep you from trashing everyone you disagree with for saying it. And since it would never come you can't wait for the statements on our part.


And as I just pointed out, the number of times and threads, gun nuts have used an event for their own political agenda. Go ahead and try to bullshit your way out of it....

Yes, I agree, that when teaching proper firearm safety there are steps. The first step is the trainer has to be intelligent, educated, and with a good deal of common sense and patience. Particularly when around children of all ages and mindsets. Even before the instructor meets the child, those particular qualifications have to exist. After that, is a careful and long instructional on firearms. The child doesn't get immediate access to start blowing away paper targets. An if they have any fits, they don't get to fire the gun for a good amount of time. There are proper ways, BamaD, and a big number of stupid ways of going about this process. I would think you could agree on this concept.

As I pointed out, laws will be pushed to prevent this behavior from being seen as 'ok'. Not by liberals, but by the insurance companies. And there is an insurance company that has to pay for all these damages. Do you think they are happy tonight?


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RE: Another poitless gun death. - 8/27/2014 4:30:34 PM   
Politesub53


Posts: 14862
Joined: 5/7/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: joether

No, this thread is pointing out....YOU DONT GIVE FIREARMS TO CHILDREN.....



Thank you Joe. He probably didnt understand the post where I said I am okay with kids having gun lessons.

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RE: Another pointless gun death. - 8/27/2014 4:36:59 PM   
subrosaDom


Posts: 724
Joined: 2/16/2014
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Politesub53

It is tragic that someone has needlessly died in an accident. What the hell are grown ups doing let a nine year old fire an Uzi, under any circumstances. Families of those involved will have to try and live with the consequences. How the young girl will ever cope with such an awful memory is beyond me.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-28948946

Edited for spelling error in title and to fix link.


As I understand it, the instructor did not have his hand on the Uzi when he went to automatic fire. Anyone with the most basic knowledge of physics knows that the the recoil of an Uzi firing automatically is well-nigh impossible for a 9-year-old girl to handle -- even if she expected it. This is simply gross negligence. I don't have much respect for the parents either. I'm all for gun safety and for kids' knowing how to shoot, but you're not ready for an Uzi at 9, boy or girl. At best, that falls into the category of "look how cool this is, my kid firing an Uzi," which is parental narcissism. So the parents are at fault for allowing this at all. The instructor is at fault for gross negligence, but of course he's dead now. Since they employed him, the range is clearly liable.

_____________________________

The surest way to corrupt a youth is to instruct him to hold in higher esteem those who think alike than those who think differently.

- Nietzsche

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RE: Another poitless gun death. - 8/27/2014 4:41:52 PM   
subrosaDom


Posts: 724
Joined: 2/16/2014
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: joether

quote:

ORIGINAL: BamaD
quote:

ORIGINAL: PeonForHer
That story seems to be too new at this time for any idea of motive, K. But, yes, it is absolutely gobsmacking.

And this thread is another cruel attempt to take advantage of a stupid senseless accident to score political points.


Oh yeah, because there have not been.....any....threads on here in which the gun nuts have stated 'If that person only had a gun, things would have been different'. Go right a head, BamaD....TRY....to bullshit to all of us that has...NEVER...happened on this forum. If its 'ok' for you to do it, its 'ok' for others to do it as well. And you don't like it; well....tough shit!

No, this thread is pointing out....YOU DONT GIVE FIREARMS TO CHILDREN.....

Particularly ones that are powerful. I would think most firearm owners would never do such a think for pretty obvious reasons. But that is the problem, the remainder would do it. And therein lies the problem. And why laws get created. Why are there stickers on large, bulky, vending machines that say 'do not tip'? Why are you told 'keep head, arms, and legs inside the vehicle at all times'? Why are we told not to takes prescription drugs that were not prescribed to us by a certified medical person? Most people can understand the reason why you don't give a 9 year old girl (or boy) a powerful firearm. Unfortunately, the remainder doesn't. And that's why laws get created. To create a punishment in the hopes the would-be offender doesn't take the action.






There are many good reasons to teach kids gun safety. This isn't one of them. Just as you teach kids who grow up on a farm to drive a tractor. This is a general problem -- one person does something stupid and inane causing harm to others and the rest of us get stuck with laws that will stop this from happening 1 time in the next 25 years. That's of course why ladders in the US have warnings on practically every step, because at one point undoubtedly some moron decided to do a handstand on the top rung whilst the ladder's feet were barely secure (yes, that's hyperbole, but the truth isn't much better). You can't fix stupid. You shouldn't legislate stupid because the 10 million of us pay the price for it and the next time it happens it will be something else that causes the harm. This is how you get creeping government control. The rest of us pay for the sins of the morons. And that's fundamentally wrong, too.

_____________________________

The surest way to corrupt a youth is to instruct him to hold in higher esteem those who think alike than those who think differently.

- Nietzsche

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