RE: Rotherham child abuse and the cover up

RE: Rotherham child abuse and the cover up (Full Version)

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crazyml -> RE: Rotherham child abuse and the cover up (8/30/2014 6:53:00 PM)
I have explained... if I have misunderstood Polite's post I will certainly and unreservedly apologise. At the risk of repeating myself.... What I said was... quote: My understanding of what PS was saying, and he said it in the context of "grooming" is that some of the victims were so vulnerable and so effectively "groomed" that they felt they were in love with their abusers. I did not understand his words to mean that that "love" was right or normal, or that it in any way excused the horrific acts of abuse that were perpetrated against them. Then I said,,, quote: Now PS can clear it up simply by pointing out his intent, and if it turns out that his stance is that he does indeed believe that in some cases there was no abuse because the girls were in love with the people accused of abusing them then I will apologise to you both in spades, and join you in condemning the attitude. So... Errmmm... I had already pretty much covered it, don't ya think? In the meantime, if you think it's cool for someone to make a jokey comment about people taking girls home and abusing them, then rock on - Clearly our values are different

subrosaDom -> RE: Rotherham child abuse and the cover up (8/30/2014 6:55:13 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: PeonForHer quote: It does seem that you, and Aylee, have interpreted his words as some how seeking to down play the horridness of these acts by making an argument that these girls were in "love" and "consenting" to the abuse. It's that that really flabbergasts me, Crazy. This has revolted the whole nation and we're walking around with bile in our mouths. I don't know whether we're looking at dogma amongst certain posters, here, or projection of dogma onto us. Maybe it's a shedload of both. Whatever. It's just frigging lunatic. To those posters: seriously, do you think we're fine with what came up in Rotherham? That we'd just like to sweep it all away? What world do you live in, and what world do you think we live in, or want to live in? No. I don't. What bothers me immensely is when certain posters in other threads rave on and on about "right-wing conservatives" or "Christian conservatives" who oppose gay marriage while failing to take into account Muslims who want to and do execute gays -- and the like.

crazyml -> RE: Rotherham child abuse and the cover up (8/30/2014 6:57:12 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: TheHeretic quote: ORIGINAL: PeonForHer Wow. Lower than that and you'd reach the centre of Earth. And I'd still be looking down in disgust on people who proudly foster a climate where "accused racist" is worse than "child rapist." Well, you'll have to take your place in a very fucking long queue... there are tens of millions of UK citizens who are looking down in disgust on people who proudly foster a climate where "accused racist" is worse than "child rapist."

TheHeretic -> RE: Rotherham child abuse and the cover up (8/30/2014 6:58:15 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: crazyml In the meantime, if you think it's cool for someone to make a jokey comment about people taking girls home and abusing them, then rock on - Clearly our values are different It's called satire, and I think it was perfectly in line with the crimes that were committed against these victims, and not nearly brutal enough for the excuse the cops and social workers offered. If it's too much for your delicate sensibilities, there is a wading pool P&R forum in the casual banter section.

subrosaDom -> RE: Rotherham child abuse and the cover up (8/30/2014 6:59:18 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: dreamysubmale Sanity In "Christian" countries, such acts are universally criminal while in many Islamic states the government carries out or condones many such deeds quote: ORIGINAL: Sanity quote: ORIGINAL: dreamysubmale I don’t condone any terrorist acts or militant groups, but since I’m fair and balanced on my views have a look at his link bellow. These Christian Al Qaeda militias in the Philippines are known to be more violent and vicious than any Islamist terrorist group that we know of, including IS. They are known to eat their killed enemy’s body parts as part of a ritual. Oh, and last I looked, the Philippines was a predominantly Catholic. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ilaga In this one case LucyLastic may be correct Cherry picking? Not at all Sanity, i was merely trying to inform and educate you. EDIT -- This following is my comment, something got screwed up with the quotes above** Abu Sayyef is the outlier. But they're there. As far as the Ilaga, it appears 1) they are revolting, disgusting and all worth of the death penalty -- I'm not going to excuse them; 2) some strange outlier aspect of Catholicism mixed with Eastern religions and certainly not given approbation by any other Christian group (unlike the Muslim hoardes who march in solidarity, as you all say with the worldwide "celebrations" of 9/11"; 3) they have very limited power and no meaningful expansionist impulses.

crazyml -> RE: Rotherham child abuse and the cover up (8/30/2014 7:00:31 PM)
Like I said.... our values our different. I happen to think that making satirical comments about raping and abusing children is disgusting, and you don't. I am sure you won't lose a moment's sleep over it, just as I will not be troubled by your different values.

subrosaDom -> RE: Rotherham child abuse and the cover up (8/30/2014 7:01:30 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: crazyml I am going to assume that there's a big misunderstanding at play here, and that you're not being a nasty little shitbag. The misunderstanding is either mine, or yours. My understanding of what PS was saying, and he said it in the context of "grooming" is that some of the victims were so vulnerable and so effectively "groomed" that they felt they were in love with their abusers. I did not understand his words to mean that that "love" was right or normal, or that it in any way excused the horrific acts of abuse that were perpetrated against them. It does seem that you, and Aylee, have interpreted his words as some how seeking to down play the horridness of these acts by making an argument that these girls were in "love" and "consenting" to the abuse. Now PS can clear it up simply by pointing out his intent, and if it turns out that his stance is that he does indeed believe that in some cases there was no abuse because the girls were in love with the people accused of abusing them then I will apologise to you both in spades, and join you in condemning the attitude. That said... Aylee's comedy post still stands as one of the most disgusting things I have read on these boards. Making a point with sarcasm doesn't make it comedy. If you can't see Aylee's post as having substantive content, then I suppose you wouldn't have thought Mark Twain. Moliere, Swift, Voltaire or H.L. Mencken had any substance, either, since they all used similar literary devices and figures of speech.

CreativeDominant -> RE: Rotherham child abuse and the cover up (8/30/2014 7:01:38 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: PeonForHer quote: ORIGINAL: TheHeretic quote: ORIGINAL: Politesub53 Well, I am not even getting into comparing American sex crimes Vs UK sex crimes How about comparing the UK racism of giving people a pass on raping children because of the color of their skin, to the American racism you cast shrieking allegations of? Wow. Lower than that and you'd reach the centre of Earth. Sadly though, according to the article I linked earlier, it does appear that in some quarters that is what happened. And it does seem strange that instead of condemning this racism and "culture-coddling", many are instead bringing up centuries-old Inquisition horrors or somehow making an analogy of Bush's actions as leader of the U.S. taking us to war to Muslim men raping and sharing young girls and drugging them.

subrosaDom -> RE: Rotherham child abuse and the cover up (8/30/2014 7:02:51 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: CreativeDominant quote: ORIGINAL: PeonForHer quote: ORIGINAL: TheHeretic quote: ORIGINAL: Politesub53 Well, I am not even getting into comparing American sex crimes Vs UK sex crimes How about comparing the UK racism of giving people a pass on raping children because of the color of their skin, to the American racism you cast shrieking allegations of? Wow. Lower than that and you'd reach the centre of Earth. Sadly though, according to the article I linked earlier, it does appear that in some quarters that is what happened. And it does seem strange that instead of condemning this racism and "culture-coddling", many are instead bringing up centuries-old Inquisition horrors or somehow making an analogy of Bush's actions as leader of the U.S. taking us to war to Muslim men raping and sharing young girls and drugging them. Yes, because per Obama and the left, EVERYTHING is Bush's fault.

crazyml -> RE: Rotherham child abuse and the cover up (8/30/2014 7:03:56 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: CreativeDominant Sadly though, according to the article I linked earlier, it does appear that in some quarters that is what happened. And it does seem strange that instead of condemning this racism and "culture-coddling", many are instead bringing up centuries-old Inquisition horrors or somehow making an analogy of Bush's actions as leader of the U.S. taking us to war to Muslim men raping and sharing young girls and drugging them. Yes, shamefully it does seem as if that has played a role. And let's hope that the authorities, and the people respond in an appropriate way.

subrosaDom -> RE: Rotherham child abuse and the cover up (8/30/2014 7:04:38 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: crazyml Like I said.... our values our different. I happen to think that making satirical comments about raping and abusing children is disgusting, and you don't. I am sure you won't lose a moment's sleep over it, just as I will not be troubled by your different values. The satirical comments were about the posters, not about the children. The difference is readily apparent. I don't see anyone, right or left, making jokes about the depredations foisted upon the children, but rather upon the attitudes and pusillanimity that led to the outrage in the first place.

crazyml -> RE: Rotherham child abuse and the cover up (8/30/2014 7:07:03 PM)
Thanks, I'm familiar with sarcasm, satire, comedy etc. And you can rest assured, if I came upon a sarcastic joke in Candide that made light of the abuse of children I'd be equally disgusted. I do hope that puts your mind at rest.

subrosaDom -> RE: Rotherham child abuse and the cover up (8/30/2014 7:08:23 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: crazyml Thanks, I'm familiar with sarcasm, satire, comedy etc. And you can rest assured, if I came upon a sarcastic joke in Candide that made light of the abuse of children I'd be equally disgusted. I do hope that puts your mind at rest. As would I. I personally detest people who make jokes about pedophiles in general. Makes my stomach turn. I did not see anything here of that ilk.

crazyml -> RE: Rotherham child abuse and the cover up (8/30/2014 7:10:50 PM)
Actually, no. you are wrong. The satirical comments were about the abuse I know that because of the words in the comments (handy eh!), I am well aware that the satire they were attempting was aimed at a poster (albeit based on what I believe to be a gross misunderstanding of the poster in question).

TheHeretic -> RE: Rotherham child abuse and the cover up (8/30/2014 7:31:56 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: crazyml Thanks, I'm familiar with sarcasm, satire, comedy etc. And you can rest assured, if I came upon a sarcastic joke in Candide that made light of the abuse of children I'd be equally disgusted. I do hope that puts your mind at rest. And if I come upon a story that the police felt being accused of racism was worse than allowing one thousand-four hundred plus children to be raped, I will find terms and descriptions to match the vileness of that act. I'm sure you won't lose any more sleep over our different values than you will over a single one of those girls. You're fucking right values are different. Aylee has some.

TheHeretic -> RE: Rotherham child abuse and the cover up (8/30/2014 7:36:45 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: subrosaDom As would I. I personally detest people who make jokes about pedophiles in general. Makes my stomach turn. I did not see anything here of that ilk. I know some pretty good pedophile jokes, but I didn't see Aylee telling a joke that might get you punched. I saw her using brutal satire that was completely appropriate. Big difference.

thursdays -> RE: Rotherham child abuse and the cover up (8/30/2014 7:41:03 PM)
[With apologies for doltishness]

Kirata -> RE: Rotherham child abuse and the cover up (8/30/2014 7:44:18 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: crazyml My understanding of what PS was saying, and he said it in the context of "grooming" is that some of the victims were so vulnerable and so effectively "groomed" that they felt they were in love with their abusers. That's what the report says. But that isn't what Politesub53 said. And to counter any (apparently continuing) misunderstandings, he has already made it clear that he meant exactly what he said exactly the way he said it. http://www.collarchat.com/fb.asp?m=4726494 quote: ORIGINAL: crazyml It does seem that you, and Aylee, have interpreted his words as some how seeking to down play the horridness of these acts by making an argument that these girls were in "love" and "consenting" to the abuse. I never said any such thing, though it doesn't seem an unreasonable deduction. But to counter any (apparently continuing) misunderstandings, I've made my position clear more than once, most thoroughly the second time. http://www.collarchat.com/fb.asp?m=4726553 http://www.collarchat.com/fb.asp?m=4726609 K.

crazyml -> RE: Rotherham child abuse and the cover up (8/30/2014 8:22:09 PM)
Hmm, OK... so are you saying that you agree that my statement: quote: ORIGINAL: crazyml My understanding of what PS was saying, and he said it in the context of "grooming" is that some of the victims were so vulnerable and so effectively "groomed" that they felt they were in love with their abusers. Is a fair summary of the report? Because, in that case we definitely have a misunderstanding on our hands, because that is precisely the meaning I drew from PS's actual words. Where I say "they felt they were in love" he says "found a form of love" but my sense is that the meaning is essentially the same. In other words the summary I provided is essentially what I think he is saying. So it would make sense for him to say that he meant what he said. The issue lies in your (or my) interpretation of what he said. If it is indeed the case that my interpretation is the right one how does that make him sick? quote: quote: ORIGINAL: crazyml It does seem that you, and Aylee, have interpreted his words as some how seeking to down play the horridness of these acts by making an argument that these girls were in "love" and "consenting" to the abuse. I never said any such thing, though it doesn't seem an unreasonable deduction. And to counter any (apparently continuing) misunderstandings, I've made my position clear twice, and most thoroughly the second time. http://www.collarchat.com/fb.asp?m=4726553 http://www.collarchat.com/fb.asp?m=4726609 K. You did say "You are one sick motherfucker." which rather suggests that you might have some issues with it. But as I said in an earlier post, it looks like PS simply needs to clarify, and if it turns out that your interpretation is closer to his intended meaning than mine, I will certainly apologise to you. Naturally if it turns out that your interpretation is flawed, it'll be entirely up to you what to do.

Kirata -> RE: Rotherham child abuse and the cover up (8/30/2014 9:11:16 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: crazyml Where I say "they felt they were in love" he says "found a form of love" but my sense is that the meaning is essentially the same... You did say "You are one sick motherfucker." which rather suggests that you might have some issues with it. There is a distinctly unsubtle difference to be drawn between finding love, and thinking that you're loved. The report does not equate the two, neither do I, and yes I have an issue with it. K.

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