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RE: Foreign Policy -- The Complicated Road Ahead - 9/12/2014 7:20:32 AM   
Zonie63


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Sanity

quote:

ORIGINAL: Politesub53

More hate.


Its called war, and the other side has been at war since the seventh century or so.

Do you want to go in and do hand-to-hand combat against ISIS? Or perhaps you think a strongly worded letter will do. Maybe a twitter campaign ? Or a boycott...



If you guys think you're so rough and tough, why do you have a track record of constantly going limp at the moment of truth? You guys have a habit of snatching defeat from the jaws of victory.

(in reply to Sanity)
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RE: Foreign Policy -- The Complicated Road Ahead - 9/12/2014 7:22:12 AM   
mnottertail


Posts: 60698
Joined: 11/3/2004
Status: offline 		Now we know that Saddam wasnt training terrorists, he was killing them (we always knew that though).

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RE: Foreign Policy -- The Complicated Road Ahead - 9/12/2014 7:43:11 AM   
crazyml


Posts: 5568
Joined: 7/3/2007
Status: offline 		I BELIEVE that you didn't understand the point I was making



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RE: Foreign Policy -- The Complicated Road Ahead - 9/12/2014 7:45:17 AM   
cloudboy


Posts: 7306
Joined: 12/14/2005
Status: offline 		It is hard to be an optimist here, but one new development is how so many adversaries now have a common enemy. I'm hoping for some sort of breakthrough / softening of relations in the region as the affected parties tire of war, bombs, and endless cycles of revenge.

Considering that IRAN, SYRIA, RUSSIA, Shiite Militias, disaffected SUNNIs, wealthy behind the scenes Arabs, and the PKK are involved -- there simply aren't many beacons of reasonableness and statesmanship to reply upon.

< Message edited by cloudboy -- 9/12/2014 7:48:31 AM >

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RE: Foreign Policy -- The Complicated Road Ahead - 9/12/2014 8:23:39 AM   
Edwynn


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Sanity
So complicated that George Bush saw todays situation very clearly back in 2007


quote:

ORIGINAL: Musicmystery
quote:

ORIGINAL: mnottertail
many of us did way before he invaded.

Including his daddy a decade and a half before that invasion.


Indeed.

Some folks inadvertently stumble upon the fact that being a prophet sometimes coincides with being the profiteer, in these matters.


But some saw it from the get-go.


"We still live in a dangerous world."





< Message edited by Edwynn -- 9/12/2014 8:54:33 AM >

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RE: Foreign Policy -- The Complicated Road Ahead - 9/12/2014 3:04:26 PM   
cloudboy


Posts: 7306
Joined: 12/14/2005
Status: offline 		The NYT had an OP ED that described Obama as a "reluctant leader."

There are good points to having a reluctant leader:

• not carried away by righteous fervor

• can be realistic about goals

• can be skeptical

• can make wise decisions precisely because he’s aware of his limitations

• You don’t have to worry about coming down from prewar euphoria

• can be collaborative . He didn’t want his task, so he’s eager to share it

• If you’re going to begin a military campaign in an Arab country, you probably want a leader who’d rather not do it.

"President Obama can be under no illusions that he is going to solve the Middle East’s fundamental problems"

"The Arab world can fully trust that Obama doesn’t have any permanent designs on their region because the guy is dying to wash his hands of the whole place as soon as possible."

---

I think this is one reason right wingers have a problem with Obama; they too often live in a bi-polar universe where there is either decisive action or nothing. A deliberative process is alien and is considered "dithering." Doing something you don't feel good about is also alien. Complicated scenarios don't really compute. For the emotionally needy (I feel threatened by "radical Islam") Obama provides little comfort. Sanity and TheHeretic, for example, are besides themselves with anger and resentment toward Obama.

< Message edited by cloudboy -- 9/12/2014 3:24:14 PM >

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RE: Foreign Policy -- The Complicated Road Ahead - 9/12/2014 3:30:42 PM   
Sanity


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From: Nampa, Idaho USA
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Musicmystery


quote:

ORIGINAL: Sanity


quote:

ORIGINAL: cloudboy


The NYT laid out the players in the Middle East who might align to fight ISIS.

http://www.nytimes.com/2014/09/10/world/middleeast/longtime-rivals-look-to-team-up-to-confront-isis.html?mabReward=RI%3A7&action=click&pgtype=Homepage®ion=CColumn&module=Recommendation&src=rechp&WT.nav=RecEngine

What would you do? How do you think this ends?


So complicated that George Bush saw todays situation very clearly back in 2007

Too bad he didn't see that situation BEFORE he caused it.


Newsflash, Barack was president while the meltdown occurred

Barack Obama: 'We're Leaving Behind a Sovereign, Stable and Self-Reliant Iraq'

http://www.whitehouse.gov/the-press-office/2011/12/14/remarks-president-and-first-lady-end-war-iraq

Joe Biden:

quote:


“I am very optimistic about Iraq. I think it’s gonna be one of the great achievements of this administration. You’re gonna see 90,000 American troops come marchin’ home by the end of the summer. You’re gonna see a stable government in Iraq that is actually movin’ toward a representative government. I’ve been there 17 times now. I go about every two months, three months. I know every one of the major players in all the segments of that society. It’s impressed me. I’ve been impressed, how they have been deciding to use the political process, rather than guns, to settle their differences.”

Then Joe rode off on a unicorn down a road made of rainbows.

http://dailycaller.com/2014/06/12/watch-joe-biden-call-iraq-one-of-the-great-achievements-of-this-administration/




< Message edited by Sanity -- 9/12/2014 3:31:25 PM >

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RE: Foreign Policy -- The Complicated Road Ahead - 9/12/2014 3:37:20 PM   
Sanity


Posts: 22039
Joined: 6/14/2006
From: Nampa, Idaho USA
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: cloudboy

The NYT had an OP ED that described Obama as a "reluctant leader."

There are good points to having a reluctant leader:

• not carried away by righteous fervor

• can be realistic about goals

• can be skeptical

• can make wise decisions precisely because he’s aware of his limitations

• You don’t have to worry about coming down from prewar euphoria

• can be collaborative . He didn’t want his task, so he’s eager to share it

• If you’re going to begin a military campaign in an Arab country, you probably want a leader who’d rather not do it.

"President Obama can be under no illusions that he is going to solve the Middle East’s fundamental problems"

"The Arab world can fully trust that Obama doesn’t have any permanent designs on their region because the guy is dying to wash his hands of the whole place as soon as possible."

---

I think this is one reason right wingers have a problem with Obama; they too often live in a bi-polar universe where there is either decisive action or nothing. A deliberative process is alien and is considered "dithering." Doing something you don't feel good about is also alien. Complicated scenarios don't really compute. For the emotionally needy (I feel threatened by "radical Islam") Obama provides little comfort. Sanity and TheHeretic, for example, are besides themselves with anger and resentment toward Obama.


You surely wouldn't mind some balance for your far left propaganda copy&paste?
Barack, the reluctant peace-prize warrior



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RE: Foreign Policy -- The Complicated Road Ahead - 9/12/2014 3:44:18 PM   
Politesub53


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Sanity

quote:

ORIGINAL: Politesub53

More hate.


Its called war, and the other side has been at war since the seventh century or so.

Do you want to go in and do hand-to-hand combat against ISIS? Or perhaps you think a strongly worded letter will do. Maybe a twitter campaign ? Or a boycott...



No you fucking dickhead, I want to stop the carnage. Hating each and every Muslims wont do that.

(in reply to Sanity)
Profile   Post #: 29
RE: Foreign Policy -- The Complicated Road Ahead - 9/12/2014 3:57:38 PM   
Sanity


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From: Nampa, Idaho USA
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Politesub53

No you fucking dickhead, I want to stop the carnage. Hating each and every Muslims wont do that.



Despite your straw man fallacy, hating the Islamic ideology isn't the same as hating "all Muslims"

Which, as I have stated many times, I do not hate Muslims

Thats likely your own projection



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RE: Foreign Policy -- The Complicated Road Ahead - 9/12/2014 4:04:04 PM   
Politesub53


Posts: 14862
Joined: 5/7/2007
Status: offline 		Good to see you cant grasp a simple post. My more hate remark was aimed at Aylee who wishes to nuke all Muslims. That said, i dont believe your posts, since you constantly lie.

One fine example is your posting in here of a speech by GWB who wanted the troops to stay. When Obama was suggesting the troops should stay you got rather pissy.

http://www.collarchat.com/m_2138130/mpage_1/key_withdrawal/tm.htm#2138130 << Double fucking standards old bean.

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Profile   Post #: 31
RE: Foreign Policy -- The Complicated Road Ahead - 9/12/2014 4:07:40 PM   
Sanity


Posts: 22039
Joined: 6/14/2006
From: Nampa, Idaho USA
Status: offline
Your post was in response to me, "polite"

The point of that post of mine that you linked to was that Barack was again being inconsistent

Which at least he is consistent in his being inconsistent








< Message edited by Sanity -- 9/12/2014 4:09:11 PM >

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RE: Foreign Policy -- The Complicated Road Ahead - 9/12/2014 4:13:31 PM   
Politesub53


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Sanity

Your post was in response to me, "polite"

The point of that post was that Barack was again being inconsistent

Which at least he is consistent in his being inconsistent



My "more hate" remark wasnt in reply to you you dopey fucker. Not that I am surprised you cant even read a two word post.

It isnt the President who is inconsistent, it is you. You moaned when he said he wanted to delay the troop withdrawal and moaned again when he didnt.

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RE: Foreign Policy -- The Complicated Road Ahead - 9/12/2014 5:22:58 PM   
Sanity


Posts: 22039
Joined: 6/14/2006
From: Nampa, Idaho USA
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Politesub53


quote:

ORIGINAL: Sanity

Your post was in response to me, "polite"

The point of that post was that Barack was again being inconsistent

Which at least he is consistent in his being inconsistent



My "more hate" remark wasnt in reply to you you dopey fucker. Not that I am surprised you cant even read a two word post.

It isnt the President who is inconsistent, it is you. You moaned when he said he wanted to delay the troop withdrawal and moaned again when he didnt.



Sorry, polite old bean. Again, I was pointing out the reluctant warriors' inconsistency

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RE: Foreign Policy -- The Complicated Road Ahead - 9/12/2014 6:19:36 PM   
cloudboy


Posts: 7306
Joined: 12/14/2005
Status: offline 		Can you at least try to come into the thread on a adult level and if not that -- as if you did your social studies homework in high school?

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Profile   Post #: 35
RE: Foreign Policy -- The Complicated Road Ahead - 9/12/2014 7:13:07 PM   
Musicmystery


Posts: 30259
Joined: 3/14/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Sanity

quote:

ORIGINAL: Musicmystery


quote:

ORIGINAL: Sanity


quote:

ORIGINAL: cloudboy


The NYT laid out the players in the Middle East who might align to fight ISIS.

http://www.nytimes.com/2014/09/10/world/middleeast/longtime-rivals-look-to-team-up-to-confront-isis.html?mabReward=RI%3A7&action=click&pgtype=Homepage®ion=CColumn&module=Recommendation&src=rechp&WT.nav=RecEngine

What would you do? How do you think this ends?


So complicated that George Bush saw todays situation very clearly back in 2007

Too bad he didn't see that situation BEFORE he caused it.


Newsflash, Barack was president while the meltdown occurred

Barack Obama: 'We're Leaving Behind a Sovereign, Stable and Self-Reliant Iraq'

http://www.whitehouse.gov/the-press-office/2011/12/14/remarks-president-and-first-lady-end-war-iraq

Joe Biden:

quote:


“I am very optimistic about Iraq. I think it’s gonna be one of the great achievements of this administration. You’re gonna see 90,000 American troops come marchin’ home by the end of the summer. You’re gonna see a stable government in Iraq that is actually movin’ toward a representative government. I’ve been there 17 times now. I go about every two months, three months. I know every one of the major players in all the segments of that society. It’s impressed me. I’ve been impressed, how they have been deciding to use the political process, rather than guns, to settle their differences.”

Then Joe rode off on a unicorn down a road made of rainbows.

http://dailycaller.com/2014/06/12/watch-joe-biden-call-iraq-one-of-the-great-achievements-of-this-administration/




Bush and Bush Lite.

Obama's errors don't make Bush any smarter for his.

(in reply to Sanity)
Profile   Post #: 36
RE: Foreign Policy -- The Complicated Road Ahead - 9/12/2014 8:03:03 PM   
Sanity


Posts: 22039
Joined: 6/14/2006
From: Nampa, Idaho USA
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Musicmystery


Bush and Bush Lite.

Obama's errors don't make Bush any smarter for his.


Bush said, don't pull out of Iraq prematurely, the power vacuum will be filled by terrorists (and he was right)

Barack campaigned on pulling out of Iraq as fast as possible, he did so and was quickly proven to be a moron

Not exactly twins

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RE: Foreign Policy -- The Complicated Road Ahead - 9/12/2014 8:16:16 PM   
Musicmystery


Posts: 30259
Joined: 3/14/2005
Status: offline 		Bush said it was all nice and tidy, war on the quick and cheap. Instead, endless war and deficits.

He left nothing stable behind. House of cards, falling exactly on sectarian lines as it has.

Only McCain told the truth -- we'll be in Iraq for decades.

(in reply to Sanity)
Profile   Post #: 38
RE: Foreign Policy -- The Complicated Road Ahead - 9/12/2014 8:30:20 PM   
TheHeretic


Posts: 19100
Joined: 3/25/2007
From: California, USA
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: cloudboy

Sanity and TheHeretic, for example, are besides themselves with anger and resentment toward Obama.



I'm not sure why my name is getting thrown around in this thread, by a sack of shit who has had his "talking with me" privileges permanently revoked. I hadn't contributed here, and wasn't planning to

Since I've been invoked by the shitbag though, I'll say that after watching President Obama's little speech the other night, I'm convinced he has some comprehension of the price of his previous failures, and has developed a "strategy" to kick the can down the road to his successor by doing a little as possible. History will not be kind to him on this.

I won't be returning to this thread, but I'm sure the subject will come up again, without the duckbutter brigade starting the conversation.




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RE: Foreign Policy -- The Complicated Road Ahead - 9/12/2014 9:25:04 PM   
Sanity


Posts: 22039
Joined: 6/14/2006
From: Nampa, Idaho USA
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Musicmystery

Bush said it was all nice and tidy, war on the quick and cheap. Instead, endless war and deficits.

He left nothing stable behind. House of cards, falling exactly on sectarian lines as it has.

Only McCain told the truth -- we'll be in Iraq for decades.


No, Bush said the war would be difficult, and go on for some time

Barack and Biden both said Iraq was a success after Bush, I linked to their statements above

Are you through inventing lies... ?

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Inside Every Liberal Is A Totalitarian Screaming To Get Out

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Profile   Post #: 40
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