RE: Interesting Point

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jlf1961 -> RE: Interesting Point (10/21/2014 4:27:53 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: thompsonx quote: ORIGINAL: thompsonx ORIGINAL: thishereboi Not sure how many times you are going to have to hear this before it sinks in but poor people are on welfare and you have to have id to collect welfare. Will that id work to vote with?[8\|] ORIGINAL: jlf1961 Alright, some one please explain to me why having to show a photo ID is a burden? Alright, someone please explain to me why you cannot understand the constitutional ammendment previously quoted? You have to have a photo ID to get a job, drive, apply for welfare, cash a check, and god knows what else. Will the photo id you use to buy beer with work to vote?[8\|] quote: ORIGINAL: thompsonx ORIGINAL: thishereboi Not sure how many times you are going to have to hear this before it sinks in but poor people are on welfare and you have to have id to collect welfare. Will that id work to vote with?[8\|] You have to have a valid state or military ID to buy beer, you need a valid state or military ID to apply for benefits, and yes, those ID's will work to vote.

thompsonx -> RE: Interesting Point (10/21/2014 4:48:39 PM)
ORIGINAL: jlf1961 You have to have a valid state or military ID to buy beer, you need a valid state or military ID to apply for benefits, and yes, those ID's will work to vote. If everyone has an id how is it that some cannot vote with their id that you will say will work? If the old id is good then why do they need a new id?

Musicmystery -> RE: Interesting Point (10/21/2014 4:53:19 PM)
Folks. Focus. The question is, if you should have to show a voter ID, then why shouldn't the folks funding election ads be required to put their names on them?

jlf1961 -> RE: Interesting Point (10/21/2014 6:05:52 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: thompsonx ORIGINAL: jlf1961 You have to have a valid state or military ID to buy beer, you need a valid state or military ID to apply for benefits, and yes, those ID's will work to vote. If everyone has an id how is it that some cannot vote with their id that you will say will work? If the old id is good then why do they need a new id? The law in Texas requires a state or military ID, nothing different than any other state, the screaming is about the alleged poor who do not have a valid ID. By valid the law means current and not expired. You know, the same kind of ID you need to cash a paycheck? There are currently 13,594,264 e\registered voters as of the last election, and to register, you had to have at least your social security card and one more source of ID. Now, people started to scream that was an unreasonable burden on people who may have moved from another state, or lost their birth certificate. So Texas changed the law. If you move to Texas and have a valid ID or Driver's license, that is all you need to present to get a Texas issued one, thanks to the Federal Law on the standard issued ID. If your ID is expired, you need a birth certificate, social security card and your expired ID. The same with any other state, and if you are a legal alien, your green card. Which also notes that you cannot vote. Instead of screaming foul, it would be a good idea to actually read the requirements to vote. I have no problem showing my ID when I vote, it is no inconvenience, and I usually have it out with my voter registration card anyway. So again, what the fuck is the problem?

ThirdWheelWanted -> RE: Interesting Point (10/21/2014 6:05:54 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: jlf1961 You have to have a valid state or military ID to buy beer, you need a valid state or military ID to apply for benefits, and yes, those ID's will work to vote. You're clearly confused, that's the requirements for voting if you're a Republican. If you're old, poor, or a college student, you have to apply to be issued an "Unobtainable ID". Cost is: prohibitively expensive and it takes 6 to 8 years for delivery.

DomKen -> RE: Interesting Point (10/21/2014 8:27:36 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: thishereboi quote: ORIGINAL: DomKen quote: ORIGINAL: subrosaDom One needs an ID to live. You need one at a bank, you are often asked for one even at a supermarket, you cannot buy various legal drugs at a pharmacy without an ID (such as ADHD medication as well as of course various pain medications that are opiates), you need one to get into bars, etc. And of course if you drive at all, you must carry your ID with you. If you does not drive, states provide IDs for you in any case. They are quite inexpensive. The IDs are not specifically for voting; they are for all of these purposes. I suppose I should include flying, too. The marginal cost of an ID for voting when you already need that ID is 0. Since anyone can claim to be anyone, there is no burden whatsoever on voter ID. Voting is more important than going to a fucking bar. To assert therefore that voting does not require an ID is ludicrous. Try to get this through your head. It isn't the ID but the short list of what ID's are allowed that is the problem. In these states where the GOP is so worried about voter fraud an expired DL is not permitted. Why not? What possible difference could there be between a DL the day before and after it expires? It just adds an expense to poor people. Not sure how many times you are going to have to hear this before it sinks in but poor people are on welfare and you have to have id to collect welfare. Are they? Every poor person is on welfare? Really? Can you prove that? Why did you make such a stupid lie?

DomKen -> RE: Interesting Point (10/21/2014 8:31:37 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: jlf1961 quote: ORIGINAL: thompsonx ORIGINAL: jlf1961 You have to have a valid state or military ID to buy beer, you need a valid state or military ID to apply for benefits, and yes, those ID's will work to vote. If everyone has an id how is it that some cannot vote with their id that you will say will work? If the old id is good then why do they need a new id? The law in Texas requires a state or military ID, nothing different than any other state, the screaming is about the alleged poor who do not have a valid ID. By valid the law means current and not expired. You know, the same kind of ID you need to cash a paycheck? There are currently 13,594,264 e\registered voters as of the last election, and to register, you had to have at least your social security card and one more source of ID. Now, people started to scream that was an unreasonable burden on people who may have moved from another state, or lost their birth certificate. So Texas changed the law. If you move to Texas and have a valid ID or Driver's license, that is all you need to present to get a Texas issued one, thanks to the Federal Law on the standard issued ID. If your ID is expired, you need a birth certificate, social security card and your expired ID. The same with any other state, and if you are a legal alien, your green card. Which also notes that you cannot vote. Instead of screaming foul, it would be a good idea to actually read the requirements to vote. I have no problem showing my ID when I vote, it is no inconvenience, and I usually have it out with my voter registration card anyway. So again, what the fuck is the problem? And you have to go to a DMV office which is how far from your home? And if you don't have a car? Look into the locations of DMV offices and hours in west Texas and consider how easy it would be to get ID if you didn't have a car out there.

ThirdWheelWanted -> RE: Interesting Point (10/21/2014 8:43:58 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: DomKen And you have to go to a DMV office which is how far from your home? And if you don't have a car? Look into the locations of DMV offices and hours in west Texas and consider how easy it would be to get ID if you didn't have a car out there. Regardless of how far it might be, would you care to explain how someone functions without any form of ID? I'll agree that getting one is a lot harder if you don't have a car, but that doesn't make it any easier to function without one.

cloudboy -> RE: Interesting Point (10/21/2014 9:22:30 PM)
I'll answer the question: he who pays the piper calls the tune. That's why anonymous secret money is a "right" but an individual voter without an ID can be turned away.

BamaD -> RE: Interesting Point (10/21/2014 9:25:22 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: cloudboy I'll answer the question: he who pays the piper calls the tune. That's why anonymous secret money is a "right" but an individual voter without an ID can be turned away. Or he can vote several times without voter ID.

DaddySatyr -> RE: Interesting Point (10/21/2014 10:17:49 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: BamaD Or he can vote several times without voter ID. This is one of those things that presents a real problem for me. I believe that the constitution *must* apply to everyone or it means nothing; even when we're talking about foreigners who are here on vacation. However, I have also come to believe (strictly based upon behavior that I see here on the forums) that foreigners have this ... compulsion to force us to live as they see fit. These are people that don't live here and pay taxes; that aren't affected by the consequences of their "actions". Judging by how voting rights were first meted out, I don't believe the founding fathers ever intended for anyone that isn't a citizen to vote in our elections. I think I would support some kind of "knowledge of the issues" test, but I can't be positive. The truth is; I vacillate on the idea but I am sick of low information voters deciding elections (Also, I direct your attention to one of my favorite Ben Franklin quotes: "When the people find that they can vote themselves money, the republic is doomed."). In all of these similar threads, I don't think I've ever seen anyone intelligently answer the simple question that's been posed, here, at least once: "How do people live without ID?" Older people? Yeah, if they want to not be in violation of the Obummercare law, they have to either have health insurance or register for Medicare. How does one register for Medicare without ID? How does one get an insurance policy (most do bank draft withdrawals, these days) without either a bank account (ID required for one) or presenting ID, proving who they are (I can't write a policy without proper proof of identification)? The fact is: the PPLs keep spinning this "hardship" bullshit because they want hundreds of dead people to be able to vote in elections. I think, ultimately, they want illegal aliens and foreigners to be able to vote, too but I think I may be over-reaching on the last lot. Screen captures (and pissing on shadows) *still* RULE!

BamaD -> RE: Interesting Point (10/21/2014 10:40:42 PM)
I think I would support some kind of "knowledge of the issues" test, but I can't be positive. This would be a problem, would you want Bill Ayers to write the test, or maybe Pat Buchanan? The people who wrote the test would be able to see to it that only those who agreed with them could vote.

DaddySatyr -> RE: Interesting Point (10/21/2014 10:49:14 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: BamaD I think I would support some kind of "knowledge of the issues" test, but I can't be positive. This would be a problem, would you want Bill Ayers to write the test, or maybe Pat Buchanan? The people who wrote the test would be able to see to it that only those who agreed with them could vote. Not how I envision it but, we can do it on another thread, if you like. Screen captures (and pissing on shadows) *still* RULE! Ya feel me?

BamaD -> RE: Interesting Point (10/21/2014 10:53:54 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: DaddySatyr quote: ORIGINAL: BamaD I think I would support some kind of "knowledge of the issues" test, but I can't be positive. This would be a problem, would you want Bill Ayers to write the test, or maybe Pat Buchanan? The people who wrote the test would be able to see to it that only those who agreed with them could vote. Not how I envision it but, we can do it on another thread, if you like. Screen captures (and pissing on shadows) *still* RULE! Ya feel me? That was one of the problems with the "literacy" tests of the 60's But I agree it is sad when people vote who don't know who the VP is, when he is running for re election.

cloudboy -> RE: Interesting Point (10/21/2014 11:13:17 PM)
"When pressed in a hearing in the State Legislature in January, however, Mr. Kobach said his office identified only 20 noncitizens who had registered before the new law, and just five who had actually voted." (Secretary of State in Kansas) -- NYT "Last week, the Government Accountability Office, a nonpartisan congressional research arm, reported that turnout in Kansas had declined 1.9 percent because of its ID law, especially among blacks and young voters." ------- "Hardship Bullshit" is an actual fact. You're just in denial about it. "they want hundreds of dead people to be able to vote in elections....they want illegal aliens and foreigners to be able to vote" -- Show us the evidence, please. Paranoia does not make for good policy.

DesideriScuri -> RE: Interesting Point (10/22/2014 4:31:49 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: DaddySatyr Judging by how voting rights were first meted out, I don't believe the founding fathers ever intended for anyone that isn't a citizen to vote in our elections. I think I would support some kind of "knowledge of the issues" test, but I can't be positive. The truth is; I vacillate on the idea but I am sick of low information voters deciding elections (Also, I direct your attention to one of my favorite Ben Franklin quotes: "When the people find that they can vote themselves money, the republic is doomed."). As bad as it may seem, every US Citizen of age has the right to cast a ballot, regardless of whether or not they have a clue on the issues or the candidates. The right to vote isn't afforded to non-Citizens. The US Constitution only mentions the right to vote for one group of people, while calling out criteria that can not be used to prohibit suffrage. Citizens of the US are the only ones with the right to vote. It's not "Citizens who are knowledgeable" or "Citizens who aren't low information voters." Perhaps the better idea is to work harder on increasing the information among the Citizenry?

thishereboi -> RE: Interesting Point (10/22/2014 5:14:12 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: thompsonx ORIGINAL: thishereboi Not sure how many times you are going to have to hear this before it sinks in but poor people are on welfare and you have to have id to collect welfare. Will that id work to vote with?[8\|] Yes it will.

thishereboi -> RE: Interesting Point (10/22/2014 5:19:18 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Musicmystery Folks. Focus. The question is, if you should have to show a voter ID, then why shouldn't the folks funding election ads be required to put their names on them? I don't see the connection between the two but I also don't see any reason not tell us who is funding the ads so by all means go for it. Personally if I am going to listen to someone telling me why I should vote for candidate A, I want to know who that person is and what qualifies them to tell me how to vote.

thishereboi -> RE: Interesting Point (10/22/2014 5:27:55 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: DomKen quote: ORIGINAL: thishereboi quote: ORIGINAL: DomKen quote: ORIGINAL: subrosaDom One needs an ID to live. You need one at a bank, you are often asked for one even at a supermarket, you cannot buy various legal drugs at a pharmacy without an ID (such as ADHD medication as well as of course various pain medications that are opiates), you need one to get into bars, etc. And of course if you drive at all, you must carry your ID with you. If you does not drive, states provide IDs for you in any case. They are quite inexpensive. The IDs are not specifically for voting; they are for all of these purposes. I suppose I should include flying, too. The marginal cost of an ID for voting when you already need that ID is 0. Since anyone can claim to be anyone, there is no burden whatsoever on voter ID. Voting is more important than going to a fucking bar. To assert therefore that voting does not require an ID is ludicrous. Try to get this through your head. It isn't the ID but the short list of what ID's are allowed that is the problem. In these states where the GOP is so worried about voter fraud an expired DL is not permitted. Why not? What possible difference could there be between a DL the day before and after it expires? It just adds an expense to poor people. Not sure how many times you are going to have to hear this before it sinks in but poor people are on welfare and you have to have id to collect welfare. Are they? Every poor person is on welfare? Really? Can you prove that? Why did you make such a stupid lie? Did I say every poor person or are you having problems with simple english again. But I will give you credit for dropping the bullshit line that only republicans know how to get id.

Musicmystery -> RE: Interesting Point (10/22/2014 6:10:18 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: thishereboi quote: ORIGINAL: Musicmystery Folks. Focus. The question is, if you should have to show a voter ID, then why shouldn't the folks funding election ads be required to put their names on them? I don't see the connection between the two but I also don't see any reason not tell us who is funding the ads so by all means go for it. Personally if I am going to listen to someone telling me why I should vote for candidate A, I want to know who that person is and what qualifies them to tell me how to vote. OK! We have one post addressing the issue the cartoon in the OP raises. Agreed they are apples and oranges -- but the juxtaposition of the issues points out exactly the ridiculousness demonstrated in the other replies . . . all about crying about voter ID and it being important and not a burden or it being a political ploy, and yet, disclosure of campaign ads is somehow violating speech simply by putting the correct name on that speech. NO ONE seems able to say why ID in this instance is a burden - - even more interesting, no one seems willing to even address it. Meanwhile, we have thread after thread of folks up in arms about corporate America. Yet here, they are already in the back pocket, compliant, happily munching on the talking points they've been given to chew. Strikes me as a problem. Seems it should strike others that way too.

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