RE: Interesting Point

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hot4bondage -> RE: Interesting Point (10/22/2014 6:39:37 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Musicmystery quote: ORIGINAL: thishereboi quote: ORIGINAL: Musicmystery Folks. Focus. The question is, if you should have to show a voter ID, then why shouldn't the folks funding election ads be required to put their names on them? I don't see the connection between the two but I also don't see any reason not tell us who is funding the ads so by all means go for it. Personally if I am going to listen to someone telling me why I should vote for candidate A, I want to know who that person is and what qualifies them to tell me how to vote. OK! We have one post addressing the issue the cartoon in the OP raises. Agreed they are apples and oranges -- but the juxtaposition of the issues points out exactly the ridiculousness demonstrated in the other replies . . . all about crying about voter ID and it being important and not a burden or it being a political ploy, and yet, disclosure of campaign ads is somehow violating speech simply by putting the correct name on that speech. NO ONE seems able to say why ID in this instance is a burden - - even more interesting, no one seems willing to even address it. Meanwhile, we have thread after thread of folks up in arms about corporate America. Yet here, they are already in the back pocket, compliant, happily munching on the talking points they've been given to chew. Strikes me as a problem. Seems it should strike others that way too. The difference should be obvious. Voter ID doesn't reveal who you voted for.

Musicmystery -> RE: Interesting Point (10/22/2014 6:44:52 AM)
Not "obvious" at all. Campaigning is not allowed near polling sites. And your vote is a one per person deal, not a one to many. The first is democracy. The second is swaying elections. Nor are you addressing the question asked. I published political columns sometimes. And I put my name on them. Why is putting your name on your election swaying activities a burden? Why a "right"? Your ability to vote for whomever you wish in secret is still intact (i.e, you could shill for a candidate, yet vote your heart on election day). And why all the fuss over corporations elsewhere, but here, they're everyone's buddy? The finest democracy money can buy. What's the problem knowing who's buying? How is this a problem?

thompsonx -> RE: Interesting Point (10/22/2014 6:52:01 AM)
ORIGINAL: jlf1961 ORIGINAL: thompsonx . If everyone has an id how is it that some cannot vote with their id that you will say will work? If the old id is good then why do they need a new id? The law in Texas requires a state or military ID, nothing different than any other state, the screaming is about the alleged poor who do not have a valid ID. By valid the law means current and not expired. Do you want to explane how that works. How is it that yesterday your "valid" drivers license identified you but today because it is expired it no longer identifies you. You know, the same kind of ID you need to cash a paycheck? There are currently 13,594,264 e\registered voters as of the last election, and to register, you had to have at least your social security card My social security card says in very large letters on the front "not to be used for identification. If your ID is expired, you need a birth certificate, How exactly does a birth certificate identify you as you. There is only a small foot print no pic no dna it is a useless piece of paper as far as proof goes. social security card Which mine clearly states that it is not to be used for identification. and your expired ID. Which you earlier said was not valid id.

thompsonx -> RE: Interesting Point (10/22/2014 6:53:13 AM)
ORIGINAL: BamaD Or he can vote several times without voter ID. Please tell us just how this is done?

thompsonx -> RE: Interesting Point (10/22/2014 6:58:47 AM)
ORIGINAL: DaddySatyr I believe that the constitution *must* apply to everyone or it means nothing; even when we're talking about foreigners who are here on vacation. However, I have also come to believe (strictly based upon behavior that I see here on the forums) that foreigners have this ... compulsion to force us to live as they see fit. Just how is that possible? These are people that don't live here and pay taxes; that aren't affected by the consequences of their "actions". Just what actions of a foriegner can affect our elections...unless you are speaking of a foriegner named rupert murdock who uses his money to influence our elections. In all of these similar threads, I don't think I've ever seen anyone intelligently answer the simple question that's been posed, here, at least once: "How do people live without ID?" Older people? Yeah, if they want to not be in violation of the Obummercare law, they have to either have health insurance or register for Medicare. How does one register for Medicare without ID? How does one get an insurance policy (most do bank draft withdrawals, these days) without either a bank account (ID required for one) or presenting ID, proving who they are (I can't write a policy without proper proof of identification)? The fact is: the PPLs keep spinning this "hardship" bullshit because they want hundreds of dead people to be able to vote in elections. Hundreds omg hundreds [8\|]roflmfao I think, ultimately, they want illegal aliens and foreigners to be able to vote, too but I think I may be over-reaching on the last lot. So make up your mind have you got your head up your ass or not?

mnottertail -> RE: Interesting Point (10/22/2014 7:15:57 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: DesideriScuri quote: ORIGINAL: DaddySatyr Judging by how voting rights were first meted out, I don't believe the founding fathers ever intended for anyone that isn't a citizen to vote in our elections. I think I would support some kind of "knowledge of the issues" test, but I can't be positive. The truth is; I vacillate on the idea but I am sick of low information voters deciding elections (Also, I direct your attention to one of my favorite Ben Franklin quotes: "When the people find that they can vote themselves money, the republic is doomed."). As bad as it may seem, every US Citizen of age has the right to cast a ballot, regardless of whether or not they have a clue on the issues or the candidates. The right to vote isn't afforded to non-Citizens. The US Constitution only mentions the right to vote for one group of people, while calling out criteria that can not be used to prohibit suffrage. Citizens of the US are the only ones with the right to vote. It's not "Citizens who are knowledgeable" or "Citizens who aren't low information voters." Perhaps the better idea is to work harder on increasing the information among the Citizenry? And its not citizens who pay a poll tax.

hot4bondage -> RE: Interesting Point (10/22/2014 7:27:34 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Musicmystery Not "obvious" at all. Campaigning is not allowed near polling sites. And your vote is a one per person deal, not a one to many. The first is democracy. The second is swaying elections. Nor are you addressing the question asked. I published political columns sometimes. And I put my name on them. Why is putting your name on your election swaying activities a burden? Why a "right"? Your ability to vote for whomever you wish in secret is still intact (i.e, you could shill for a candidate, yet vote your heart on election day). And why all the fuss over corporations elsewhere, but here, they're everyone's buddy? The finest democracy money can buy. What's the problem knowing who's buying? How is this a problem? It was your choice to reveal your name. Public outing of campaign donors eliminates that choice. Would you have forced Thomas Paine to put his name on Common Sense?

Musicmystery -> RE: Interesting Point (10/22/2014 7:32:51 AM)
News flash -- Thomas Paine wasn't influencing an election. He was attacking a monarchy. The difference should be obvious.

cloudboy -> RE: Interesting Point (10/22/2014 7:58:56 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Musicmystery Can anyone explain to me why ID for election promotions is a burden? On its face it's counter intuitive to see it as a burden -- I simply see the number of affected voters who will be disenfranchised by VOTER ID and take it as fact. There have also been judicial findings of fact on the subject. (1) Getting one's birth certificate -- thereafter going to the DMV -- all while relying on public transportation -- I could see how that might take anywhere from one - four weeks in time (to actually get the birth certificate in the mail) and then go to the DMV. (2) I'd say you are looking at anywhere from 1-8 hours of time actually spent on the task. Fees would probably run $127.00 in my state. (see below) All this assumes you don't have some kind of bureaucratic problem. It also would help to have computer-internet access. It would also help to have a checking account because fees cannot be paid in cash. So you might have to get a money order too. If one has to travel over 30 miles to each agency, time frames go up. Fees in Maryland: CERTIFIED COPY OF MARYLAND BIRTH CERTIFICATE $52.87 Online Processing Fee $10.75 Authorized Maryland Agency Merchant Fee $24.00 Maryland State Government Fee $87.62 Total Fee (Additional Copies: $77.37 each) Delivery Options $15.50 UPS Air Shipping Delivery (includes multiple copies) __Free Regular Mail --- Non-Commercial License Driver’s License Renewal ($6.00 per year) $30.00 - 5 years $36.00 - 6 years $42.00 - 7 years $48.00 - 8 years*

mnottertail -> RE: Interesting Point (10/22/2014 8:06:11 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: hot4bondage quote: ORIGINAL: Musicmystery Not "obvious" at all. Campaigning is not allowed near polling sites. And your vote is a one per person deal, not a one to many. The first is democracy. The second is swaying elections. Nor are you addressing the question asked. I published political columns sometimes. And I put my name on them. Why is putting your name on your election swaying activities a burden? Why a "right"? Your ability to vote for whomever you wish in secret is still intact (i.e, you could shill for a candidate, yet vote your heart on election day). And why all the fuss over corporations elsewhere, but here, they're everyone's buddy? The finest democracy money can buy. What's the problem knowing who's buying? How is this a problem? It was your choice to reveal your name. Public outing of campaign donors eliminates that choice. Would you have forced Thomas Paine to put his name on Common Sense? He put his name to many things, that old Che Guevara prototype.

Sanity -> RE: Interesting Point (10/22/2014 8:14:08 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: hot4bondage The difference should be obvious. Voter ID doesn't reveal who you voted for. Good point How can leftists target these people if they're unsure of who they are

freedomdwarf1 -> RE: Interesting Point (10/22/2014 8:28:16 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Sanity quote: ORIGINAL: hot4bondage The difference should be obvious. Voter ID doesn't reveal who you voted for. Good point How can leftists target these people if they're unsure of who they are Simple answer: they can't! And why is everyone who doesn't agree with you a "leftist"??? Are you saying that all rightists think identically?? Pfffftttt!!!! What a crock of shit. [8\|]

mnottertail -> RE: Interesting Point (10/22/2014 8:44:09 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Sanity quote: ORIGINAL: hot4bondage The difference should be obvious. Voter ID doesn't reveal who you voted for. Good point How can leftists target these people if they're unsure of who they are Thats the thing though, we have registered and voted 100 people. 99 people voted for the informed candidate, and 1 person voted for the nutsucker. The nutsucker gestapo will be ferreting out the 99 and take one of theirs under the bus as well. The nutsuckers are setting up for a legal spate of McCarthyism, something dear to a nutsuckers heart.

jlf1961 -> RE: Interesting Point (10/22/2014 9:01:29 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: thompsonx ORIGINAL: jlf1961 You have to have a valid state or military ID to buy beer, you need a valid state or military ID to apply for benefits, and yes, those ID's will work to vote. If everyone has an id how is it that some cannot vote with their id that you will say will work? If the old id is good then why do they need a new id? Are you naturally dense? Or are you just acting this way? The judge that made that statement is full of shit. If they have a valid ID (not expired) then there is no problem. Why cant you get it through your thick skull that there is no "special" ID that people need to get in order to vote. No matter what anyone says, it involves a standard state issued photo ID or drivers license, nothing special, the same ID they need to cash checks, apply for welfare, get a job, etc. College ID's wont work simply because there is no requirement to prove you are a legal citizen to go to college, or a legal resident alien. There is no special test, no language requirement, no requirement for a passport, no requirement for a signed affadavit from God, just a standard state issued ID or Driver's license. The argument: quote: Hundreds of thousands of Texans will have a hard time getting the ID. The ID law says that Texans can get a state-issued photo ID from police, but only in certain locations. “Those who lack the approved forms of identification may obtain an “election identification certificate” from the Texas Department of Public Safety (DPS), but more than 400,000 eligible voters face round-trip travel times of three hours or more.” Is bullshit, all you have to do is go to your local DMV office every county has one, so there is no three hour freaking drive, except in five counties in far west Texas that have a total population between them of less than 30,000 people. One of those counties is larger than the state of Massachusetts and has a population of less than 9000 people. But hey, the truth never stopped either party from making asses of themselves. If the "disenfranchised" have been working, driving, cashing checks, receiving welfare, buying beer, they already have a valid ID, if they have an expired ID, then it will cost 15 to 20 bucks for a new one, which every other white, black, brown, yellow, red are green Texan does every six fucking years. As for the argument that no one has told people about the new law, that is bullshit, when the law was passed, letters went out to every registered voter, there is a notice at the voter registration office, and both freaking parties who have been busting ass to get voters registered have told them. All the law did was cut down the acceptable forms of ID to a government issued photo ID, be it state, military or a goddamn passport. You cant use a social security card, birth certificate, school ID, etc. How fucking hard is that to understand? FYI, Texas has a bit of history of voter fraud from both sides of the fence, and there are republican voters who are part of the poor this law supposedly disenfranchised.

mnottertail -> RE: Interesting Point (10/22/2014 9:03:39 AM)
Maybe in Texas since they are so interested in it down there, the Abortion clinics should issue those IDs for the sake of convenience.

Musicmystery -> RE: Interesting Point (10/22/2014 10:46:07 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Sanity How can leftists target these people if they're unsure of who they are And yet, you apparently have no problem with a shadow government of oligarchs accountable to no one. Because that's what this is a recipe for creating. Left, right, purple, foreign . . . whomever can afford the price tag can populate the government as they please. How is this defending freedom, democracy, the Constitution? Left/right is over. It's the Rise of the Oligarchy. The rest is just the breadcrumbs they give you to fuss over, to make you feel like you have a voice and some control.

jlf1961 -> RE: Interesting Point (10/22/2014 12:19:52 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: cloudboy quote: ORIGINAL: Musicmystery Can anyone explain to me why ID for election promotions is a burden? On its face it's counter intuitive to see it as a burden -- I simply see the number of affected voters who will be disenfranchised by VOTER ID and take it as fact. There have also been judicial findings of fact on the subject. (1) Getting one's birth certificate -- thereafter going to the DMV -- all while relying on public transportation -- I could see how that might take anywhere from one - four weeks in time (to actually get the birth certificate in the mail) and then go to the DMV. (2) I'd say you are looking at anywhere from 1-8 hours of time actually spent on the task. Fees would probably run $127.00 in my state. (see below) All this assumes you don't have some kind of bureaucratic problem. It also would help to have computer-internet access. It would also help to have a checking account because fees cannot be paid in cash. So you might have to get a money order too. If one has to travel over 30 miles to each agency, time frames go up. Fees in Maryland: CERTIFIED COPY OF MARYLAND BIRTH CERTIFICATE $52.87 Online Processing Fee $10.75 Authorized Maryland Agency Merchant Fee $24.00 Maryland State Government Fee $87.62 Total Fee (Additional Copies: $77.37 each) Delivery Options $15.50 UPS Air Shipping Delivery (includes multiple copies) __Free Regular Mail --- Non-Commercial License Driver’s License Renewal ($6.00 per year) $30.00 - 5 years $36.00 - 6 years $42.00 - 7 years $48.00 - 8 years* Question, how were these people cashing checks? applying for any kind of assistance (even church charities require photo ID) got a job, etc, without any of the things you listed? And since we are talking Texas, State Issued Photo ID $15.00, renewed every 6 years, driver's license 25 dollars, renewed every 6 years, no per year charge. And you folks are screaming about Texas? Christ sounds like Maryland is screwing people left and right.

Zonie63 -> RE: Interesting Point (10/22/2014 12:23:36 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Musicmystery Not "obvious" at all. Campaigning is not allowed near polling sites. And your vote is a one per person deal, not a one to many. The first is democracy. The second is swaying elections. Nor are you addressing the question asked. I published political columns sometimes. And I put my name on them. Why is putting your name on your election swaying activities a burden? Why a "right"? Your ability to vote for whomever you wish in secret is still intact (i.e, you could shill for a candidate, yet vote your heart on election day). And why all the fuss over corporations elsewhere, but here, they're everyone's buddy? The finest democracy money can buy. What's the problem knowing who's buying? How is this a problem? Yes, buying elections is a problem, but I would also mention those who are actually swayed by these ads. If people are so gullible as to fall for these ads in the first place, what good would it do for them to know who's behind the ad? These ads are put on TV stations which supposedly have news departments which could just look in their own company's files to find out who paid for the ad. I don't think TV stations allow just anyone to place ads anonymously. They must know who they're doing business with. Besides, whatever happened to the "equal time" rule? Don't they have to give equal time to the other side? I thought that was the whole idea, so that no single party could buy up all the TV time and leave the opposition out in the cold.

DesideriScuri -> RE: Interesting Point (10/22/2014 1:18:17 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: cloudboy Fees in Maryland: CERTIFIED COPY OF MARYLAND BIRTH CERTIFICATE $52.87 Online Processing Fee $10.75 Authorized Maryland Agency Merchant Fee $24.00 Maryland State Government Fee $87.62 Total Fee (Additional Copies: $77.37 each) Delivery Options $15.50 UPS Air Shipping Delivery (includes multiple copies) __Free Regular Mail --- Non-Commercial License Driver’s License Renewal ($6.00 per year) $30.00 - 5 years $36.00 - 6 years $42.00 - 7 years $48.00 - 8 years* Ohio Birth Certificates: $21.50 Ohio ID's: Driver's License (4-year Renewal): $23.00 ($25.75) Non-DL State ID (4-year renewal): $8.50 ($8.50) Maryland Photo ID's: $24.00 (New or 8-year Renewal) Additionally, most (not necessarily all) Photo ID laws include no-cost-to-the-applicant non-DL ID's that satisfy the ID requirement.

DesideriScuri -> RE: Interesting Point (10/22/2014 1:23:16 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: jlf1961 Question, how were these people cashing checks? applying for any kind of assistance (even church charities require photo ID) got a job, etc, without any of the things you listed? And since we are talking Texas, State Issued Photo ID $15.00, renewed every 6 years, driver's license 25 dollars, renewed every 6 years, no per year charge. And you folks are screaming about Texas? Christ sounds like Maryland is screwing people left and right. Maryland is moving to an 8-year validity rate. So, that's why there is the "yearly" rate listed. Read more from my MD Photo ID link in Post #59.

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