RE: Voter Fraud DOES exist!

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RE: Voter Fraud DOES exist! - 11/3/2014 7:17:29 AM

mnottertail

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quote:

ORIGINAL: BamaD

quote:

ORIGINAL: smileforme50

quote:

ORIGINAL: ThirdWheelWanted

quote:

ORIGINAL: YouName

This is asked everywhere, on every forum but let's try here too.
Can you americans please explain why you do not use ID cards or at least register cards (cards you have shown an ID card to get) for voting?
It's not like you live in a libertarian utopia without ID-cards...so where is the discrimination/problems in general with using them?

Because if you say you want people to show ID in order to vote, you're accused of being racist. Apparently the DMV has special lines that move you through quick and easy if you're a Republican, but take forever and cost a fortune if you're a Democrat. I wish I knew, I just renewed my license a few months ago, I could have used that expedited line!

Speaking as someone who didn't have a driver's license for 17 year.... If you do not drive or own a car and you live in a region with no public transit, it can be virtually impossible to get to the DMV to get a legal photo ID card. There is a vicious circle that people who have a car don't think about.....it's very difficult to get a decent job if you don't have reliable transportation to get to that job....but at the same time it is very difficult to afford a car and it's upkeep if you don't have a decent job to help pay for it.

In Alabama if you don't have a DL you can get a state ID which allows you to vote, and it is FREE.

No, it isn't free.

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RE: Voter Fraud DOES exist! - 11/3/2014 7:18:40 AM

mnottertail

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quote:

ORIGINAL: ThirdWheelWanted

quote:

ORIGINAL: DomKen
Because we have a long history of certain sorts using such things against some elements of society so if we were to try and force everyone to get a specific ID it would result in a shit storm of epic proportions. So we have a patch work system where everyone has to fend for themselves and therefor the system is quite expensive and not uniform.

Quite expensive and not uniform? Really? So a garden variety driver's license or state photo ID won't do it? As far as I know, every place that's enacted voter ID laws has included those as acceptable ID. A DL costs you what, about $30? State ID is even less. My wife had to get a PA state ID card a few years ago and if I remember correctly it was free.

No, it is not free.

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RE: Voter Fraud DOES exist! - 11/3/2014 9:27:07 AM

joether

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quote:

ORIGINAL: GotSteel

quote:

ORIGINAL: Sanity
Many elections are extremely close, and there is no way of knowing how rampant voter fraud is

Congratulations, your only years behind the rest of us who all ready know that in person voter fraud exists and have determined that it isn't a significant threat. By the way when is your party going to get around to making absentee ballots show ID?

Also significant threats that are actually undermining our democracy like gerrymandering?

He, nor anyone else, has gotten around to explaining to me how they deal with the massive amount of professional grade quality fake IDs that will eventually wind up on the 'streets' of America, if people are required to show ID to vote.

I've pointed out to him and others that the bartenders in and around the greater Boston, MA area are home to some 160+ colleges and universities. That there is much in the way of underage drinking (the drinking age is 21). And that fake IDs can be had to allow underager's to not only enter a bar, tavern, or pub, but also to drink alcoholic drinks without scrutiny. So law enforcement a little more than a decade ago started challenging the establishments with under cover (and young) cops to see which company was not following the laws. Many penalties later (some were big ones), these establishments place greater emphasis on training their employees to spot fake IDs. And they are routinely tested.

How well trained and experienced are poll station workers be in spotting fake IDs? Since this 'layer of defense' only works with intensive vigilance, effort, and work. Most poll workers have trouble with basic, fake IDs to handle the professional ones. Since the underager's in Boston area with the REALLY good fake IDs are not getting caught. And how do we know that? They show up drunk at the police stations or the emergency rooms around the greater Boston area.

All those in favor of 'photo ID' laws can not seem to state how this problem, if it goes national, is to be combated. Unlike underage drinking, there...*IS*....a market is swinging elections to one candidate over another. Right now, its projected that this year's midterm elections will cost $4 Billion Dollars.

Who would notice an extra $100 million in the 'Fake ID Market'?

How much in taxpayer resources will have to be used to combat this problem?

As has been observed that even with the 'voter Photo ID' laws in place, has not really increased voter turnout. Which has been one of the purported advantages of such laws. If anything, it has decreased voter turnout in those areas. So here we are spending huge amounts of taxpayer money on a system that does....NOTHING....to increase voter turnout nor confidence in the election process. All by the very people that bitch high and low about 'waste' in government.....

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RE: Voter Fraud DOES exist! - 11/3/2014 9:38:09 AM

Aylee

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So. . . are you suggesting that 16 year olds are going to spend $200 to $400 on a fake ID to vote?

Ya know that you still have to register and stuff to vote, right?

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RE: Voter Fraud DOES exist! - 11/3/2014 10:28:09 AM

thishereboi

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quote:

ORIGINAL: mnottertail

quote:

ORIGINAL: ThirdWheelWanted

quote:

ORIGINAL: DomKen
Because we have a long history of certain sorts using such things against some elements of society so if we were to try and force everyone to get a specific ID it would result in a shit storm of epic proportions. So we have a patch work system where everyone has to fend for themselves and therefor the system is quite expensive and not uniform.

Quite expensive and not uniform? Really? So a garden variety driver's license or state photo ID won't do it? As far as I know, every place that's enacted voter ID laws has included those as acceptable ID. A DL costs you what, about $30? State ID is even less. My wife had to get a PA state ID card a few years ago and if I remember correctly it was free.

No, it is not free.

How much did his wife pay and did she use cash or write a check?

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RE: Voter Fraud DOES exist! - 11/3/2014 10:41:36 AM

mnottertail

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You guys want to borrow and spend, but it was paid out of TAX monies, the very definition of a poll TAX, to those who paid for it.

You really don't understand that simple concept? I mean look, foodstamps are free, welfare is free, everything is free, right?

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RE: Voter Fraud DOES exist! - 11/3/2014 1:33:33 PM

thishereboi

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quote:

ORIGINAL: mnottertail

You guys want to borrow and spend, but it was paid out of TAX monies, the very definition of a poll TAX, to those who paid for it.

You really don't understand that simple concept? I mean look, foodstamps are free, welfare is free, everything is free, right?

It was a simple question but I am not surprised you chose not to answer it.

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RE: Voter Fraud DOES exist! - 11/3/2014 1:37:51 PM

mnottertail

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I just did, fuckstick. Read for comprehension, it was paid by tax dollars, not free.

While you are the most cretinous kind of simpleton, I expect you have at least a fleeting understanding of free. It is not free.

< Message edited by mnottertail -- 11/3/2014 1:38:49 PM >

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RE: Voter Fraud DOES exist! - 11/3/2014 1:54:10 PM

freedomdwarf1

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I guess it depends on your definition of "free".

We all know that nothing is for free any more.
But, if you don't have to reach into your wallet or have money coming from your bank or credit card, to all intent and purposes, it's free; as in, you aren't actually forking out for it.
Sure, you're paying for it in taxes and whatever, but you aren't handing over funds at the time of acquiring it.

I frequently say that our healthcare is free.
For those working and earning enough, they pay for it in taxes - for everybody.
But for some on welfare, they aren't paying a dime for anything - so it really is for free.

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RE: Voter Fraud DOES exist! - 11/3/2014 2:02:29 PM

mnottertail

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Obamacare is free.

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RE: Voter Fraud DOES exist! - 11/3/2014 2:05:23 PM

freedomdwarf1

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Not for a lot of people not on welfare from what I've seen.
It seems you are still forced to buy healthcare insurance or face a fine.

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RE: Voter Fraud DOES exist! - 11/3/2014 2:14:36 PM

xgender

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quote:

ORIGINAL: freedomdwarf1

Not for a lot of people not on welfare from what I've seen.
It seems you are still forced to buy healthcare insurance or face a fine.

This is what I'm seeing as well...

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RE: Voter Fraud DOES exist! - 11/3/2014 2:20:58 PM

mnottertail

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Well, welfare is free, and for welfare patients they are on insurance for free under state programs. Its free

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RE: Voter Fraud DOES exist! - 11/3/2014 2:24:42 PM

freedomdwarf1

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quote:

ORIGINAL: mnottertail

Well, welfare is free, and for welfare patients they are on insurance for free under state programs. Its free

I stand corrected

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RE: Voter Fraud DOES exist! - 11/3/2014 4:46:09 PM

Sanity

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Aylee

So. . . are you suggesting that 16 year olds are going to spend $200 to $400 on a fake ID to vote?

Ya know that you still have to register and stuff to vote, right?

Thats a lot of money, just for one person to illegally vote

Especially if $10 is too much for most Democrats to come up with, to pay for a regular ID

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RE: Voter Fraud DOES exist! - 11/3/2014 4:47:35 PM

Sanity

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quote:

ORIGINAL: mnottertail

Well, welfare is free, and for welfare patients they are on insurance for free under state programs. Its free

You have to have an ID to get welfare

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RE: Voter Fraud DOES exist! - 11/3/2014 4:51:58 PM

Sanity

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quote:

ORIGINAL: mnottertail

Obamacare is free.

Despite all the leftist brainwashing, there still is no such thing as a free lunch

Or free nanny government

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RE: Voter Fraud DOES exist! - 11/3/2014 5:04:56 PM

Aylee

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Sanity

quote:

ORIGINAL: Aylee

So. . . are you suggesting that 16 year olds are going to spend $200 to $400 on a fake ID to vote?

Ya know that you still have to register and stuff to vote, right?

Thats a lot of money, just for one person to illegally vote

Especially if $10 is too much for most Democrats to come up with, to pay for a regular ID

When I googled for fake IDs that was the amount range several mentioned. I did not check to see if ordering one from China was cheaper.

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RE: Voter Fraud DOES exist! - 11/3/2014 6:45:45 PM

Edwynn

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Things have gone up so much.

When I was a teenager all I had to do was go visit my relatives in Illinois, where at the time all they used for drivers' license was a light-blue cardboard thing with basic description and no picture, no laminate, typewriter written. All the kids waited out in the parking lot for their of-age (or in possession of a good typewriter) friends to show up, borrow the piece of cardboard from someone with roughly same description, get in the door and get the wrist stamped, go back outside and return the card ten minutes later. That was free.

The trouble came when I became of age and attempted to use my (then) NC DL, with picture and laminate, and it freaked the door guys out. "Sorry, man, we can't take out of state license for ID." -What?- "This ID has a picture, and is laminated to make fraud much more difficult, your state DL is a piece of crap that anybody can use. You've got to be kidding." "Sorry man, we can't take out of state DLs, we gotta be sure, we might get in trouble." (Not the first or last example that hinted that the later move of my family to that state was somewhat of a downgrade.)

Which supposition was bourne out later when my younger brother, who was assessed as having insufficient eyesight to drive during the eye test for the IL DL, was thereby given an IL state ID instead, (which was not free, but was $10 cheaper than the DL), and then attempted (when he later became of age) entrance to a bar or pub. Even though by that time the IL state ID and DL folks had caught up to the modern world in finally using a photo, and laminating the card, unfortunately the IL doormens' obstinance in defending the old ways prevailed, and my brother was denied entrance numerous times because he didn't have an IL DL. He, I, and 10 of his friends explained (on numerous occasions) to the doormen that you can't drive if you're blind, that you can't get a DL if you're blind, and the state ID has equal legal purpose for identification. "Sorry, man, we can only take an Illinois DL for ID, man."

My less than favorable estimation of that state (and of that whole region, generally) still stands.

< Message edited by Edwynn -- 11/3/2014 7:15:55 PM >

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RE: Voter Fraud DOES exist! - 11/3/2014 7:32:08 PM

slvemike4u

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A solution in search of a problem.....

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