RE: 10 hours of walking in NYC as a woman

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shiftyw -> RE: 10 hours of walking in NYC as a woman (11/4/2014 4:45:11 PM)
Philly was the worst for me. But obviously the population is higher so there is bound to be more occurrences. Even here in my very wealthy, rural, waspy New England town it happens. I honestly think demographic has little to do with it. I got followed here two weeks ago by a group of 17 year old guys who would not stop trying to hit on me. ETA page 9!

ExiledTyrant -> RE: 10 hours of walking in NYC as a woman (11/4/2014 4:50:58 PM)
I shall bribe the mods with tasty treats and poppet-corn for a thread lock. I only do this because I love you, shifty, and this is going to hurt you much more than it hurts me. Jus sayin

Moderator3 -> RE: 10 hours of walking in NYC as a woman (11/4/2014 5:01:03 PM)
Thou shalt not involve moderators in your sadistic pranks. It could be embarassin. Just sayin.

ExiledTyrant -> RE: 10 hours of walking in NYC as a woman (11/4/2014 5:06:01 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Moderator3 Thou shalt not involve moderators in your sadistic pranks. It could be embarassin. Just sayin. Prank? Did you vote to wack or watch? [sm=adminwatch.gif] Jus wunderin P.S. That should say "Tyrant is watching you"

DerangedUnit -> RE: 10 hours of walking in NYC as a woman (11/4/2014 5:37:02 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: shiftyw Philly was the worst for me. But obviously the population is higher so there is bound to be more occurrences. Even here in my very wealthy, rural, waspy New England town it happens. I honestly think demographic has little to do with it. I got followed here two weeks ago by a group of 17 year old guys who would not stop trying to hit on me. ETA page 9! Maybe you are right there it was just a coorelation I noticed in my own life and that is hardly a clear judge. All the guys I encountered on the street in philly or cleveland were easily shut down if called out. Guys there tend to be more shy around me for some reason. The only problems I had in those parts were going out on coffee dates and guy deciding to "keep me"... but that happens most places. Cali and ny are the only places I've ever been attacked on the street. Last year where I currently live, I was walking the block to McDonald's when a guy came up next to me asked me how I was rhe threw me against the wall lining the sidewalk with his hand up my dress. I pushed an arm against his neck, grabbed his balls, smiled and told him thats not the way to pick up girls.... he let go and asked for my number. I was still dumbfounded that he would have the audacity to do that in broad daylight on a busy street to a girl obviously dressing in a way that signaled "not available" on the other side of the country if anyone tried anything like that they did it in the protection of groups. Boys taking pictures and making jokes is usually pretty easily disarmed. My little sister gets that a lot because she is shy and just tries to scurry away from it. But in those cases just joke around with them, exchange "disses" and they tend to back off.

YouName -> RE: 10 hours of walking in NYC as a woman (11/4/2014 5:44:50 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: shiftyw We were already told in this thread that a personally responsible lady would learn self defense or carry a gun. We were also told that was a reasonable thing for a 14 year old. I am trying to not "make every man a rapist" Having already gone three rounds with another poster, I really wish to not be victim blamed again honestly. To me it is a huge factor. A guy can likely outrun, out hit, and out fight me, even given any training. I agree it is a huge factor in why it being done to females is intimidating. I also just feel women have no way to respond to this which is comfortable. Engaging them may go well, it may not, it will certainly encourage the behavior, which is at least irritating. If you call them out, they might get really aggressive. If you ignore them they might follow you for five blocks. A man is completely putting you in a position where they hold all the cards. It is objectifying and in my opinion, more often then not, aggressive. Obviously context is important. Even a hello can be scary in the appropriate context. Well I'm not going to go on a tirade about Community again but some places are different from others. In some places carrying a gun is probably wise. Although pepperspray is probably safer. Though this goes no matter if someone tells you or doesn't tell you this. The difference being that you're more comfortable when they don't since you Think you don't have to worry as much. In other places you probably have nothing to worry about when someone "cat calls" you. Then it's just rude or possibly flattering, depending on how you look at it or how drunk you are. And we're back rudeness being the least of societies problems. Although some would probably say that it's where Everything starts.

shiftyw -> RE: 10 hours of walking in NYC as a woman (11/4/2014 5:46:09 PM)
Eh. See as the case may be they are usually that easily disarmed, you've had incidents where they weren't, and you never know which is going to be that one.

shiftyw -> RE: 10 hours of walking in NYC as a woman (11/4/2014 5:49:41 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: YouName quote: ORIGINAL: shiftyw We were already told in this thread that a personally responsible lady would learn self defense or carry a gun. We were also told that was a reasonable thing for a 14 year old. I am trying to not "make every man a rapist" Having already gone three rounds with another poster, I really wish to not be victim blamed again honestly. To me it is a huge factor. A guy can likely outrun, out hit, and out fight me, even given any training. I agree it is a huge factor in why it being done to females is intimidating. I also just feel women have no way to respond to this which is comfortable. Engaging them may go well, it may not, it will certainly encourage the behavior, which is at least irritating. If you call them out, they might get really aggressive. If you ignore them they might follow you for five blocks. A man is completely putting you in a position where they hold all the cards. It is objectifying and in my opinion, more often then not, aggressive. Obviously context is important. Even a hello can be scary in the appropriate context. Well I'm not going to go on a tirade about Community again but some places are different from others. In some places carrying a gun is probably wise. Although pepperspray is probably safer. Though this goes no matter if someone tells you or doesn't tell you this. The difference being that you're more comfortable when they don't since you Think you don't have to worry as much. In other places you probably have nothing to worry about when someone "cat calls" you since then it's just rude or possibly flattering, depending on how you look at it or how drunk you are. And we're back rudeness being the least of societies problems. Although some would probably say that it's where Everything starts. I don't want to own a gun. And I shouldn't have to carry pepper spray, which the two times I've done that, it's exploded in my bag and gotten all over me... That's the whole point of this video, in my opinion. Is that I shouldn't be made to feel the need to feel unsafe all the time.

YouName -> RE: 10 hours of walking in NYC as a woman (11/4/2014 5:53:13 PM)
Fuck it, you're probably right. Even though the rapist probably won't forewarn you and even though you're probably just as safe or unsafe whether or not this happens it can stil produce the effect of psychological discomfort. I still Think the girl I mentioned here had a better attitude to it which negated this part. But since the majority probably don't then it probably indeed is a form of harassment. Complicated shit for being so utterly unimportant if you consider all the aspects of it...but people don't that's the Point .[:-] Heck strike that, people probably can't, unless they previously determine to do so, because it just happens at random when you don't expect it. Yey...Someone convinced me to change my opinion on the internets.

shiftyw -> RE: 10 hours of walking in NYC as a woman (11/4/2014 6:02:02 PM)
Do I get to go to the Internet awards because of that? Haha I mean my point is really, catcalling benefits no one, is disrespectful, at worse, threatening. What is the harm in not doing it? Are men so afraid of losing that power that they can't handle being told how rude and dangerous this behavior makes them look? It's just another way to remind me that I'm on this earth to benefit a man, and I don't believe that, and see no problem in asking for men to respect the fact that I feel I'm worth more than that.

YouName -> RE: 10 hours of walking in NYC as a woman (11/4/2014 6:08:48 PM)
Again though, I have to stand by it that after this discussion you can do better than Think it's disrespectful. Either ignore it and Think nothing of it or perhaps even try to feel flattered that a simplelton thought that of you :-) They might even just be some random, slightly intoxicated dude that just spilled some beans Before cooking them. [:-] There's as mentioned probably only good in not doing it (with some exceptions but then you're expecting it anyway). But at the same time you can make it less of a problem for yourself if you consider its implications. EDIT. Also if you keep posting there's some reward in it apparently [:-]

PeonForHer -> RE: 10 hours of walking in NYC as a woman (11/4/2014 6:13:07 PM)
quote: Why? Would talking about even such simple and obvious matters as this get you maligned as a 'feminazi' or similar? quote: ORIGINAL: shiftyw We were already told in this thread that a personally responsible lady would learn self defense or carry a gun. We were also told that was a reasonable thing for a 14 year old. OK. I get you. I was gung ho for both my sisters to get trained in self defence. I never saw it as the solution, just a part of it. I came to believe that it was a very small part of it, though. As a pretty innocent 18 yer old, new to some of the roughest parts of London as a student, I took up karate. But it didn't eliminate my fears, it focused and channelled them. I reasoned, 'What use is self defence if you're not ready to use it - and what's the feeling that keeps you in that state of readiness?' It made walking home in the dark in the East End bearable, but it never made it nice.

YouName -> RE: 10 hours of walking in NYC as a woman (11/4/2014 6:14:40 PM)
Good point there. You can always try to limit the issues that face you but some are hard to eliminate.

BlueCatLaughing -> RE: 10 hours of walking in NYC as a woman (11/4/2014 6:18:32 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: YouName Again though, I have to stand by it that after this discussion you can do better than Think it's disrespectful. Either ignore it and Think nothing of it or perhaps even try to feel flattered that a simplelton thought that of you :-) They might even just be some random, slightly intoxicated dude that just spilled some beans Before cooking them. [:-] There's as mentioned probably only good in not doing it (with some exceptions but then you're expecting it anyway). But at the same time you can make it less of a problem for yourself if you consider its implications. EDIT. Also if you keep posting there's some reward in it apparently [:-] The idea that women should be flattered appalls me. I don't care if it is a random drunk guy or a random sober guy. And I'm not the one making it a problem, the men doing it are the problem. Your post is too close to victim blaming for my comfort. [8\|]

YouName -> RE: 10 hours of walking in NYC as a woman (11/4/2014 6:21:12 PM)
Nah. That's the thing. The fucking depth of this stupid shit. The person calling out in this way is doing the wrong thing. But the person being called out can turn it around through their state of mind.

shiftyw -> RE: 10 hours of walking in NYC as a woman (11/4/2014 6:55:11 PM)
Yah...put it on the folks it happens to and make it there reaponsibility. Cause that isn't backwards or anything?

YouName -> RE: 10 hours of walking in NYC as a woman (11/4/2014 7:00:27 PM)
Shiftyw I said I agreed with you. Humility just like mercy is not an accusation but a trait worthy of praise. If you do not have it at a particular time you're not at fault.

shiftyw -> RE: 10 hours of walking in NYC as a woman (11/4/2014 7:24:37 PM)
well then let's make it very clear that I am NOT suggesting that anyone change those feelings of discomfort, it isn't that persons problem that someone decided to yell provocative things at them. It is not up to them to change or adjust their feelings, the catcalling is the issue, not a persons negative reaction to disrespect.

shiftyw -> RE: 10 hours of walking in NYC as a woman (11/4/2014 9:22:52 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Greta75 quote: ORIGINAL: littleladybug Pray tell, what is a woman's "purpose"? Her purpose is to carry the new generation safely into the world. The man's purpose is jump start the process, but also see through the whole process by making sure no harm falls upon her and the new generation and they all survive healthy and well. Of course, some women may choose not to use her gift anymore as too much sacrifices is involved, then it is her choice to choose a different path. Not everybody choose to embrace the gift they have. My personal view of feminism isn't women being treated better then men. Its equal choice, role, and opportunity. I might someday have a baby. But honestly I don't really see it happening. Its not really what I want to do. I'm not deny a "gift" I have. I'm just choosing to highlight gifts I have that aren't related to my vagina. I see that "treating a pregnant lady like an invalid" really kind of obnoxious, why should I give up what makes me me for 9 months cause I'm bearing a child? My work is honestly a huge passion of mine, and I won't give it up for anyone- and I refuse to see my lack of child as something to base my value upon, because I'm more than a walking uterus. However- if a woman's passion is her uterus, her man, or her child- I'm fine with that too. I just don't want to be considered less of a woman because my choices are different than hers, and most importantly- I want those choices to be available to me. Here in the US abortion is a huge issue. Obviously I'm pro choice- I think saying a woman's purpose is to have babies is a pretty big threat to that choice- and I think that choice is in place for good reason, but lets not open that can of worms in this thread. I also think its important to note- I think it is gosh darn FINE for a man to be submissive to a woman. Traditional gender roles are fine if they work for you. And its find for someone else to be non traditional- to me...part of feminism is that choice remaining open as well. quote: It was unfortunate that they were mostly black men on show, I'm not sure there were sinister reasons for that though. It might have been sensible to reshoot but maybe they didn't have the funding to do that. It didn't colour my opinion because I've experienced it personally from men of all colours, and in worse ways but I can see how it might colour some peoples views if this is their only experience of seeing it. You can definitely see that it added fuel to the racists arguments from the comments on YouTube. It's not a race issue so to portray it as possibly being so is wrong. The video is far from perfect but I still think its useful. I agree it is unfortunate. I actually really question if they targeted those neighborhoods, knowing that the african american unemployment rate is extremely high, and there would be or were more people on the street in those neighborhoods? However...I think that is a huge mistake, and it keeps coming up where this video is circulating and frankly, it is a problem. But I agree with your assessment. quote: Feminists are facing a lot of hate right now. I don't really get that, I mean feminism in its purest form is only about women having rights in society, who wouldn't want that? It's interesting to see the backlash about it from males, a lot seem to have taken it like a personal attack. They seem to feel that all men are being demonised but they are the only ones actually saying that. I haven't read a single comment from a woman saying ALL MEN ARE EVIL or anything. The video is a little confusing though about where the boundaries should be, I'm not sure why they left two of the comments in there. I think one person says "how are you this morning?", which isn't rude and and it doesn't seem to be accompanied by any other behaviour, so guys are like - what, we cant even say hello to people on the street any more? The male commenters have clung to that one statement though, ignored the rest and seem to have made the issue into one all about them now, dismissing the message of the video all together.It's mostly defensive bullshit, they cant really defend the actions of almost all of these males with any rational argument. It's like them being accused of being sexist (even though not all men were) has trumped the actual victims of the sexism. As I said earlier- I think those are in there to show the scope of what happens, the more tame, and then the crazy (being followed for 5 minutes). And yes. It is exactly the those being accused of being sexist DOES trump the victims of sexism. Because I think honestly in some of these guys minds it is. I've seen a lot of "WHAT WE CANT EVEN TALK TO WOMEN?!" and to me thats just silly and no one is saying that..to me you have to think about the context in which you are engaging her. And your end goal, if you are really interested in meeting this woman- are you really going to say "Have a great day" as she walks by? I don't think so. I don't think the end goal of ANY of those folks in that video was actually dating her. If it was, I don't think its likely they will make it very far. steps off soapbox I'm really not usually this bitchy about this...but I can't help myself sometimes. I hope all of you who have looked at my profile aren't looking at it to see if I'm really this intense all the time, I promise I'm not.

YouName -> RE: 10 hours of walking in NYC as a woman (11/4/2014 9:45:30 PM)
So you don't think that generalization is good? [sm=popcorn.gif] Or does it only apply to guys? Granted, people that know you shouldn't treat you in a way you wouldn't want to be treated. Then they are just bad friends or what ever. Obviously women are equals to men but they aren't really equal in their roles, this is obvious from a biological point of view. Granted, individuality can far outweigh such things but such things still remain a factor. It's a silly topic shiftyw, but apparently more interesting than I too thought. Nobody is judging, don't be so defensive. All the stuff you've said is reasonably sensible.

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