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RE: Atheists Have Their Own Religion - 11/6/2014 9:18:11 PM   
TheHeretic


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Musicmystery

You seem to be lumping quite a few stances under one atheist umbrella.


As a lot of different deist outlooks get stuck in a box with Falwell and his fundy friends. This may be a shocking thought for some, but not every vision of the Divine comes from the creation myths and cultural taboo traditions of a few middle-eastern tribes.


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RE: Atheists Have Their Own Religion - 11/8/2014 4:15:24 AM   
GotSteel


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quote:

ORIGINAL: TheHeretic


quote:

ORIGINAL: Musicmystery

You seem to be lumping quite a few stances under one atheist umbrella.


As a lot of different deist outlooks get stuck in a box with Falwell and his fundy friends. This may be a shocking thought for some, but not every vision of the Divine comes from the creation myths and cultural taboo traditions of a few middle-eastern tribes.


Yeah, I don't say this a lot....it's feeling kind of weird...but here goes. Exactly!

That's a really good point, people generally get that theism is a super broad label encompassing a massive number of different positions, but add an a to the same word and it seems like some people are suddenly incapable of finding their ass with both hands.

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RE: Atheists Have Their Own Religion - 11/8/2014 9:32:43 AM   
dcnovice


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quote:

Non-religious people now have a religion, and are now entitled to everything that goes along with that.

When's the first bake sale?

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RE: Atheists Have Their Own Religion - 11/8/2014 9:33:47 AM   
Musicmystery


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lol!

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RE: Atheists Have Their Own Religion - 11/9/2014 8:48:28 PM   
Real0ne


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quote:

ORIGINAL: TheHeretic

Except atheism is not a lack of belief, Muse - that's the agnostics. Atheism is a belief in an unprovable negative - that there is no higher consciousness/power/being in the universe.

Atheist don't get to start out by defining my beliefs about the Divine, before they tell me why those beliefs are wrong. I rejected the fundamentalist Sunday School tales of the bearded old angry white guy on a golden throne pretty much as the teacher was spouting them. "When I speak of "God," I'm using a metaphor for something that is beyond human comprehension. The existence of such cannot be either proved or disproved. To hold a conviction about it, one way or the other, requires faith. Therefore, both positions are equally faith-based.

Oh. Those monsters under the bed? Ever seen pictures of dust mites, taken with a microscope?




The problem you have is that the church and government (one in the same) basically hijacked the meaning of religion to incorporate it into their 'business' model.

Today, like yesterday you only get recognition the religion you claim is party to a corporation granted and acknowledged under the state [sovereign corporation..the big cheeze]. (Just like before the revolution)

However......within the substantial definition of 'religion' agnostics also have their set of beliefs, faith in their beliefs, that likewise include matters of conscience that they act upon etc...to govern their actions. Full circle, everyone has a religion.

Who gives a shit?

While I realize after many years of indoctrination to the status quo its difficult for some to wrap their minds around this but there is a reason everyone should.

Granted, the constitution is for the most part toilet paper, however with enough people holding the governments feet to the fire the judges will come around and be forced to at some point allow people to actually 'exercise' their religion rather than restrict them to praying for the day they will be allowed to exercise their religion.

The idea that an individual must be part and party to a corporate body for recognition is an atrocity under law, but quite dandy in gangland society.

Personally I am totally for ushering in the wide world of diversity that championing religious freedom would bring with it, rather than suppressing it as it has been throughout history....and get these deadbeat revenue collecting feudal gangsters off their asses to pass some legislation in accordance with the contract they made and are sworn to abide with the people.

You all have a religion, as individuals, without the need register with a corporation to make the claim. You all are also liable for the consequences of your actions 'ANYWAY', may as well have the full basket of rights that go with it, so why give them the power to dictate the choices of religion you may exercise?

Frankly all I see is upside to everyone being recognized as having their own religion and the right to exercise it no matter how corny it is with the caveat that what you do does not cause 'damage' to another.













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RE: Atheists Have Their Own Religion - 11/10/2014 1:35:22 AM   
GotSteel


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quote:

ORIGINAL: dcnovice
When's the first bake sale?


Years ago.


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RE: Atheists Have Their Own Religion - 11/10/2014 7:42:31 PM   
Edwynn


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quote:

ORIGINAL: TheHeretic
Atheist don't get to start out by defining my beliefs about the Divine, ...


OK.

I mean, aside from the fact that that's precisely what you did right there in the converse ...

OK.



< Message edited by Edwynn -- 11/10/2014 7:43:26 PM >

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RE: Atheists Have Their Own Religion - 11/10/2014 8:26:53 PM   
Edwynn


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Real0neGranted, the constitution is for the most part toilet paper, however with enough people holding the governments feet to the fire the judges will come around and be forced to at some point allow people to actually 'exercise' their religion rather than restrict them to praying for the day they will be allowed to exercise their religion.


Aside from your obvious desire that there be the christian equivalent of Sharia law in the US, the audience here awaits with baited breath your specifics and examples of how any citizen of the US has been deprived of exercise of religion. Was it when we outlawed the burning of women as accused of witches that has you so burning on this issue? What law is it against -personal- prayer at any time, or any form of devotion to what-/whomever in a private abode or structure are you speaking of?

Do you not realize that the christian prayer in the football locker room or at the city council meeting (as exists across the nation) is a suppression of others' freedom to exercise their religion?

You are either speaking of 'religious freedom' as in fact a christian hegemony and despotism of the US or you are speaking of religious freedom as de facto religious anarchy in the US. Please enlighten the audience as to which you would consider the promised land of 'religious freedom', if that's not too much trouble.


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RE: Atheists Have Their Own Religion - 11/10/2014 8:52:04 PM   
Edwynn


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However many people came to the colonies to escape the religious persecution of not being allowed to practice their own brand of religious persecution (i.e., 'religious freedom' or 'exercise of religion'), there were a fuck of a lot more who came across alongside to escape the absurd class system in Europe, and the stupid pilgrims were already gone by the time we became the USA, for good reason.

RO keeps asserting that we are all tools to the current regime, then argues most forcefully for the most successful tool of regime that was ever invented.

Good luck with that.





< Message edited by Edwynn -- 11/10/2014 9:17:11 PM >

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RE: Atheists Have Their Own Religion - 11/10/2014 8:59:46 PM   
FieryOpal


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Edwynn
<snip>
RO keeps asserting that we are all tools to the current regime, then argues most forcefully for the most successful tool of regime that was ever invented.






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RE: Atheists Have Their Own Religion - 11/10/2014 9:26:30 PM   
Edwynn


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Oh stopits with that "tools of their tools" stuff. Makes my head spin. Turning inwards, in a spiral, I keep seeing the same thing, or a different pattern (not sure which) but further away, but closer up if I look the other way.

OK, I have to stop here and admit, I want to put something in the US pledge of allegiance;

"One Nation, under Mandelbrot."



< Message edited by Edwynn -- 11/10/2014 9:50:37 PM >

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RE: Atheists Have Their Own Religion - 11/10/2014 10:45:13 PM   
FieryOpal


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Edwynn

Oh stopits with that "tools of their tools" stuff. Makes my head spin. Turning inwards, in a spiral, I keep seeing the same thing, or a different pattern (not sure which) but further away, but closer up if I look the other way.

OK, I have to stop here and admit, I want to put something in the US pledge of allegiance;

"One Nation, under Mandelbrot."
OMG, those are such beautiful images! I love geometric patterns & spiral shapes. I want this as a screensaver....

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RE: Atheists Have Their Own Religion - 11/11/2014 3:31:25 AM   
crazyml


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kerching!

[Edit to add]

I would recommend this book to any atheist...

http://www.amazon.com/Religion-Atheists-Non-believers-Guide-Uses/dp/0307476820

It's by Alain De Botton, who is a philosopher I have a natural urge to dislike, so I read this book wanting to hate it, but it's actually marvelous.

By way of disclosure, I'm a functional Atheist. That is to say, there may very well have been something supernatural that kicked everything off - in fact I am pretty certain that there was - but what ever it was bears no relationship with the "God" that mankind has subsequently manufactured.

By way of further disclosure, I don't generally look down on theists, in fact I am a tiny bit envious of them at times.

< Message edited by crazyml -- 11/11/2014 3:45:30 AM >


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RE: Atheists Have Their Own Religion - 11/11/2014 5:12:18 AM   
GotSteel


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quote:

ORIGINAL: TheHeretic

Except atheism is not a lack of belief, Muse - that's the agnostics. Atheism is a belief in an unprovable negative - that there is no higher consciousness/power/being in the universe.

Atheist don't get to start out by defining my beliefs about the Divine, before they tell me why those beliefs are wrong.


These two sentences back to back.....my hypocrisy meter is going off the chart.







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RE: Atheists Have Their Own Religion - 11/11/2014 11:40:15 AM   
TheHeretic


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Dude, get a fucking clue - A-theist. The name speaks for itself.

You - both you personally in threads I've followed, and you generally as the atheist clique, routinely associate any reference to belief not only to Christianity, but to the fundamentalist brand of biblical literalism. I'm calling you on the shit.

Do you not like having your own tactics spun on you? Tell it to the chaplain.

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RE: Atheists Have Their Own Religion - 11/11/2014 12:34:58 PM   
freedomdwarf1


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quote:

ORIGINAL: TheHeretic
Dude, get a fucking clue - A-theist. The name speaks for itself.

Just like A-typical: meaning NOT typical.

A-theist: Not a theist. Does not believe in a god.

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RE: Atheists Have Their Own Religion - 11/11/2014 12:40:32 PM   
TheHeretic


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quote:

ORIGINAL: freedomdwarf1

A-theist: Not a theist. Does not believe in a god.


Yeah. That's what I said. Thanks.



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If you lose one sense, your other senses are enhanced.
That's why people with no sense of humor have such an inflated sense of self-importance.


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RE: Atheists Have Their Own Religion - 11/11/2014 1:10:47 PM   
freedomdwarf1


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quote:

ORIGINAL: TheHeretic


quote:

ORIGINAL: freedomdwarf1

A-theist: Not a theist. Does not believe in a god.


Yeah. That's what I said. Thanks.



Ok. My bad.
Thought you were implying "A" theist, meaning 'a theist'.

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RE: Atheists Have Their Own Religion - 11/11/2014 3:25:10 PM   
GotSteel


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quote:

ORIGINAL: GotSteel
quote:

ORIGINAL: TheHeretic
This may be a shocking thought for some, but not every vision of the Divine comes from the creation myths and cultural taboo traditions of a few middle-eastern tribes.

Yeah, I don't say this a lot....it's feeling kind of weird...but here goes. Exactly!


quote:

ORIGINAL: TheHeretic
You - both you personally in threads I've followed, and you generally as the atheist clique, routinely associate any reference to belief not only to Christianity, but to the fundamentalist brand of biblical literalism. I'm calling you on the shit.


You'd look less silly if I wasn't doing the exact opposite of what you're claiming.

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RE: Atheists Have Their Own Religion - 11/11/2014 3:42:49 PM   
TheHeretic


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Yeah. You're getting closer to the breakthrough, Gotsteel, but the Santa Claus deception is still clouding your thinking.

_____________________________

If you lose one sense, your other senses are enhanced.
That's why people with no sense of humor have such an inflated sense of self-importance.


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