RE: Voter Demographics

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kdsub -> RE: Voter Demographics (11/9/2014 10:03:17 AM)
quote: You don't grasp the most basic logic Bama you are correct …BUT…I would much rather see blacks mostly vote for blacks rather than not have them vote at all. It may be racist but it will be a start or at least a next step towards becoming directly involved in their government. That way they will own a part of America and be responsible for it. This would make them proactive in government rather than a victim of it as they often perceive themselves to be. Then as time goes by and they realize they can influence their futures at the ballot box they will start listening to the message and ignore the skin color. If given the choice between a political message from a person you feel you cannot trust and someone your same color and hopefully experience most will choose color. It may be racist but it is an understandable choice given our history and a choice many minorities have made over the years. We all know the answer is in the vote and I think harsh words are needed to get blacks to see their mistakes and understand protests and disobedience hurts more than helps their cause. As an example… the protesters in Ferguson want the County Prosecutor to remove himself from the case of Michael Brown. They believe he cannot be fair. Well… the St Louis county prosecutor Robert Mculloch was last Tuesday reelected unopposed. There was plenty of time between the shooting and the election to have a black or black sympathetic nominee to run against him. That would have settled their demands by the vote. Believe me if this were a Tea Party situation there would have been many qualified men and women running against him. Same with the future of the mayor and council of Ferguson… blacks must become involved in the political process. That is the only way they can change their future… not throwing rocks, blocking traffic, and destroying their economy. Butch

BamaD -> RE: Voter Demographics (11/9/2014 2:09:45 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: kdsub quote: You don't grasp the most basic logic Bama you are correct …BUT…I would much rather see blacks mostly vote for blacks rather than not have them vote at all. It may be racist but it will be a start or at least a next step towards becoming directly involved in their government. That way they will own a part of America and be responsible for it. This would make them proactive in government rather than a victim of it as they often perceive themselves to be. Then as time goes by and they realize they can influence their futures at the ballot box they will start listening to the message and ignore the skin color. If given the choice between a political message from a person you feel you cannot trust and someone your same color and hopefully experience most will choose color. It may be racist but it is an understandable choice given our history and a choice many minorities have made over the years. We all know the answer is in the vote and I think harsh words are needed to get blacks to see their mistakes and understand protests and disobedience hurts more than helps their cause. As an example… the protesters in Ferguson want the County Prosecutor to remove himself from the case of Michael Brown. They believe he cannot be fair. Well… the St Louis county prosecutor Robert Mculloch was last Tuesday reelected unopposed. There was plenty of time between the shooting and the election to have a black or black sympathetic nominee to run against him. That would have settled their demands by the vote. Believe me if this were a Tea Party situation there would have been many qualified men and women running against him. Same with the future of the mayor and council of Ferguson… blacks must become involved in the political process. That is the only way they can change their future… not throwing rocks, blocking traffic, and destroying their economy. Butch Common sense, on here, are you trying to make trouble?

JeffBC -> RE: Voter Demographics (11/9/2014 2:52:55 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: kdsub Same with the future of the mayor and council of Ferguson… blacks must become involved in the political process. That is the only way they can change their future… not throwing rocks, blocking traffic, and destroying their economy. Two points: As a privileged white guy who really has not and can not walk a mile in the other guy's shoes, I'm a bit leery of prescribing strategies to a group that's been heavily persecuted for the last 200 years-ish in this country. In any realistic sense slavery still exists in the USA. At least right now that burden is falling largely on blacks although the new group is the poor. When a government is actively murdering and enslaving your own interest group that's simply got to color your thinking a bit and I'm not real sure I can empathize across that big of a gulf. That disclaimer being said, I think your point applies to anyone. The purpose of a protest is not to make change. Rather, a protest raises awareness and then if enough awareness and interest is raised change happens, exactly as you say, via the political process. And the normal complaint doesn't apply in your specific example of Ferguson. Sure, it's easy to understand why blacks aren't really motivated to vote in federal elections... there is no party standing for them. But at the local level you don't need "party machinery". There's no reason other than lack of trust and comfort in the political process that the blacks in Ferguson couldn't try to make some effective local changes happen.

BamaD -> RE: Voter Demographics (11/9/2014 3:16:24 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: JeffBC quote: ORIGINAL: kdsub Same with the future of the mayor and council of Ferguson… blacks must become involved in the political process. That is the only way they can change their future… not throwing rocks, blocking traffic, and destroying their economy. Two points: As a privileged white guy who really has not and can not walk a mile in the other guy's shoes, I'm a bit leery of prescribing strategies to a group that's been heavily persecuted for the last 200 years-ish in this country. In any realistic sense slavery still exists in the USA. At least right now that burden is falling largely on blacks although the new group is the poor. When a government is actively murdering and enslaving your own interest group that's simply got to color your thinking a bit and I'm not real sure I can empathize across that big of a gulf. That disclaimer being said, I think your point applies to anyone. The purpose of a protest is not to make change. Rather, a protest raises awareness and then if enough awareness and interest is raised change happens, exactly as you say, via the political process. And the normal complaint doesn't apply in your specific example of Ferguson. Sure, it's easy to understand why blacks aren't really motivated to vote in federal elections... there is no party standing for them. But at the local level you don't need "party machinery". There's no reason other than lack of trust and comfort in the political process that the blacks in Ferguson couldn't try to make some effective local changes happen. If you actually believe that our government is actively enslaving and murdering blacks, and that we are practicing slavery agaist blacks and the poor you are out of touch. Do you really think that there should be a party who's primary goal is to promote blacks? You don't think that they have an interest in the welfare of the nation? Wouldn't policies that are good for the nation be good for them?

tj444 -> RE: Voter Demographics (11/9/2014 3:21:10 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: JeffBC quote: ORIGINAL: kdsub Same with the future of the mayor and council of Ferguson… blacks must become involved in the political process. That is the only way they can change their future… not throwing rocks, blocking traffic, and destroying their economy. Two points: As a privileged white guy who really has not and can not walk a mile in the other guy's shoes, I'm a bit leery of prescribing strategies to a group that's been heavily persecuted for the last 200 years-ish in this country. In any realistic sense slavery still exists in the USA. At least right now that burden is falling largely on blacks although the new group is the poor. When a government is actively murdering and enslaving your own interest group that's simply got to color your thinking a bit and I'm not real sure I can empathize across that big of a gulf. That disclaimer being said, I think your point applies to anyone. The purpose of a protest is not to make change. Rather, a protest raises awareness and then if enough awareness and interest is raised change happens, exactly as you say, via the political process. And the normal complaint doesn't apply in your specific example of Ferguson. Sure, it's easy to understand why blacks aren't really motivated to vote in federal elections... there is no party standing for them. But at the local level you don't need "party machinery". There's no reason other than lack of trust and comfort in the political process that the blacks in Ferguson couldn't try to make some effective local changes happen. Its also made harder for them to vote if they live in states that require certain ID that some of them don't have & have trouble & cost getting.. and too,.. black politicians can be just as corrupt/inept as the sleazy white politicians too..

kdsub -> RE: Voter Demographics (11/9/2014 3:56:45 PM)
quote: As a privileged white guy who really has not and can not walk a mile in the other guy's shoes Privileged my ass... this walk in another's shoes is the biggest cop out used...I worked hard for everything I have and my friends, some black did the same. Blacks today have the same support... opportunities...and employment potential as whites. I know too many successful minorities of all colors to give credence to dumb ass clichés. Some blacks seem to think no one else has faced challenges in their lives. I should say of course I am not generalizing when it comes to African Americans... I am specifically talking of those that think white people owe them something and they should live under different rules because of their traditions. They always demand respect yet do not give any. They complain about stricter punishment for crimes... yet commit more than any other group of people. They complain about poor schools yet refuse to support them. They complain about crime in their neighborhoods yet refuse to cooperate with police to solve them. They complain about employment opportunities in their cities yet ignore crime that drives business away. They complain about police harassment yet allow their children to roam the streets all hours of the night. The only people that can change their situation in life are themselves. Butch

Sanity -> RE: Voter Demographics (11/9/2014 3:59:05 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: tj444 Its also made harder for them to vote if they live in states that require certain ID that some of them don't have & have trouble & cost getting.. and too,.. black politicians can be just as corrupt/inept as the sleazy white politicians too.. A person needs an ID in modern society just to function Period The need to ensure that elections arent stolen far outweighs the possibility that someone cant vote because they lost their ID

kdsub -> RE: Voter Demographics (11/9/2014 4:00:10 PM)
quote: Its also made harder for them to vote if they live in states that require certain ID that some of them don't have & have trouble & cost getting I guess you are right...white people are sooooo much smarter than those dummy blacks too stupid to get ID's when white people have no problem. I mean damn getting ID's are far beyond the capabilities of African Americans everyone knows that!!! Butch

BamaD -> RE: Voter Demographics (11/9/2014 4:07:43 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: tj444 quote: ORIGINAL: JeffBC quote: ORIGINAL: kdsub Same with the future of the mayor and council of Ferguson… blacks must become involved in the political process. That is the only way they can change their future… not throwing rocks, blocking traffic, and destroying their economy. Two points: As a privileged white guy who really has not and can not walk a mile in the other guy's shoes, I'm a bit leery of prescribing strategies to a group that's been heavily persecuted for the last 200 years-ish in this country. In any realistic sense slavery still exists in the USA. At least right now that burden is falling largely on blacks although the new group is the poor. When a government is actively murdering and enslaving your own interest group that's simply got to color your thinking a bit and I'm not real sure I can empathize across that big of a gulf. That disclaimer being said, I think your point applies to anyone. The purpose of a protest is not to make change. Rather, a protest raises awareness and then if enough awareness and interest is raised change happens, exactly as you say, via the political process. And the normal complaint doesn't apply in your specific example of Ferguson. Sure, it's easy to understand why blacks aren't really motivated to vote in federal elections... there is no party standing for them. But at the local level you don't need "party machinery". There's no reason other than lack of trust and comfort in the political process that the blacks in Ferguson couldn't try to make some effective local changes happen. Its also made harder for them to vote if they live in states that require certain ID that some of them don't have & have trouble & cost getting.. and too,.. black politicians can be just as corrupt/inept as the sleazy white politicians too.. The difficulty of getting an ID is a myth, I make less than 30k and had no difficulty.

tj444 -> RE: Voter Demographics (11/9/2014 4:57:07 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: BamaD quote: ORIGINAL: tj444 quote: ORIGINAL: JeffBC quote: ORIGINAL: kdsub Same with the future of the mayor and council of Ferguson… blacks must become involved in the political process. That is the only way they can change their future… not throwing rocks, blocking traffic, and destroying their economy. Two points: As a privileged white guy who really has not and can not walk a mile in the other guy's shoes, I'm a bit leery of prescribing strategies to a group that's been heavily persecuted for the last 200 years-ish in this country. In any realistic sense slavery still exists in the USA. At least right now that burden is falling largely on blacks although the new group is the poor. When a government is actively murdering and enslaving your own interest group that's simply got to color your thinking a bit and I'm not real sure I can empathize across that big of a gulf. That disclaimer being said, I think your point applies to anyone. The purpose of a protest is not to make change. Rather, a protest raises awareness and then if enough awareness and interest is raised change happens, exactly as you say, via the political process. And the normal complaint doesn't apply in your specific example of Ferguson. Sure, it's easy to understand why blacks aren't really motivated to vote in federal elections... there is no party standing for them. But at the local level you don't need "party machinery". There's no reason other than lack of trust and comfort in the political process that the blacks in Ferguson couldn't try to make some effective local changes happen. Its also made harder for them to vote if they live in states that require certain ID that some of them don't have & have trouble & cost getting.. and too,.. black politicians can be just as corrupt/inept as the sleazy white politicians too.. The difficulty of getting an ID is a myth, I make less than 30k and had no difficulty. 600,000 in Texas cant vote cuz they dont have the right ID (even if they have voted before) so its not a f'n myth, dude.. http://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2014/oct/27/texas-vote-id-proof-certificate-minority-law and I have run into this kinda bs crap before cuz the library here wont give me a library card cuz I dont have the right ID to get one...

tj444 -> RE: Voter Demographics (11/9/2014 5:02:31 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Sanity quote: ORIGINAL: tj444 Its also made harder for them to vote if they live in states that require certain ID that some of them don't have & have trouble & cost getting.. and too,.. black politicians can be just as corrupt/inept as the sleazy white politicians too.. A person needs an ID in modern society just to function Period The need to ensure that elections arent stolen far outweighs the possibility that someone cant vote because they lost their ID Dude, anyone with half a brain knows that yer elections were already stolen by the 1% and big corporations.. [8\|]

Aylee -> RE: Voter Demographics (11/9/2014 5:33:23 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: tj444 quote: ORIGINAL: BamaD quote: ORIGINAL: tj444 quote: ORIGINAL: JeffBC quote: ORIGINAL: kdsub Same with the future of the mayor and council of Ferguson… blacks must become involved in the political process. That is the only way they can change their future… not throwing rocks, blocking traffic, and destroying their economy. Two points: As a privileged white guy who really has not and can not walk a mile in the other guy's shoes, I'm a bit leery of prescribing strategies to a group that's been heavily persecuted for the last 200 years-ish in this country. In any realistic sense slavery still exists in the USA. At least right now that burden is falling largely on blacks although the new group is the poor. When a government is actively murdering and enslaving your own interest group that's simply got to color your thinking a bit and I'm not real sure I can empathize across that big of a gulf. That disclaimer being said, I think your point applies to anyone. The purpose of a protest is not to make change. Rather, a protest raises awareness and then if enough awareness and interest is raised change happens, exactly as you say, via the political process. And the normal complaint doesn't apply in your specific example of Ferguson. Sure, it's easy to understand why blacks aren't really motivated to vote in federal elections... there is no party standing for them. But at the local level you don't need "party machinery". There's no reason other than lack of trust and comfort in the political process that the blacks in Ferguson couldn't try to make some effective local changes happen. Its also made harder for them to vote if they live in states that require certain ID that some of them don't have & have trouble & cost getting.. and too,.. black politicians can be just as corrupt/inept as the sleazy white politicians too.. The difficulty of getting an ID is a myth, I make less than 30k and had no difficulty. 600,000 in Texas cant vote cuz they dont have the right ID (even if they have voted before) so its not a f'n myth, dude.. http://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2014/oct/27/texas-vote-id-proof-certificate-minority-law and I have run into this kinda bs crap before cuz the library here wont give me a library card cuz I dont have the right ID to get one... Or the dude in the story can just put his legal name on the ID card and keep calling himself whatever he wants. He also could have renewed his ID on time. The part that I do not understand is how is he selling his scrap without a valid picture ID? Everywhere I have been requires one. (Destroying medical imaging equipment produces a LOT of scrap metals.)

BamaD -> RE: Voter Demographics (11/9/2014 5:58:33 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: tj444 quote: ORIGINAL: BamaD quote: ORIGINAL: tj444 quote: ORIGINAL: JeffBC quote: ORIGINAL: kdsub Same with the future of the mayor and council of Ferguson… blacks must become involved in the political process. That is the only way they can change their future… not throwing rocks, blocking traffic, and destroying their economy. Two points: As a privileged white guy who really has not and can not walk a mile in the other guy's shoes, I'm a bit leery of prescribing strategies to a group that's been heavily persecuted for the last 200 years-ish in this country. In any realistic sense slavery still exists in the USA. At least right now that burden is falling largely on blacks although the new group is the poor. When a government is actively murdering and enslaving your own interest group that's simply got to color your thinking a bit and I'm not real sure I can empathize across that big of a gulf. That disclaimer being said, I think your point applies to anyone. The purpose of a protest is not to make change. Rather, a protest raises awareness and then if enough awareness and interest is raised change happens, exactly as you say, via the political process. And the normal complaint doesn't apply in your specific example of Ferguson. Sure, it's easy to understand why blacks aren't really motivated to vote in federal elections... there is no party standing for them. But at the local level you don't need "party machinery". There's no reason other than lack of trust and comfort in the political process that the blacks in Ferguson couldn't try to make some effective local changes happen. Its also made harder for them to vote if they live in states that require certain ID that some of them don't have & have trouble & cost getting.. and too,.. black politicians can be just as corrupt/inept as the sleazy white politicians too.. The difficulty of getting an ID is a myth, I make less than 30k and had no difficulty. 600,000 in Texas cant vote cuz they dont have the right ID (even if they have voted before) so its not a f'n myth, dude.. http://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2014/oct/27/texas-vote-id-proof-certificate-minority-law and I have run into this kinda bs crap before cuz the library here wont give me a library card cuz I dont have the right ID to get one... Yep go to the guardian to get U S news, sorry, it is still a myth. You can find one example of almost anything and pretend it is the norm.

BamaD -> RE: Voter Demographics (11/9/2014 6:03:55 PM)
The part that I do not understand is how is he selling his scrap without a valid picture ID? Everywhere I have been requires one. (Destroying medical imaging equipment produces a LOT of scrap metals.) How did he even get a business license without Id?

BamaD -> RE: Voter Demographics (11/9/2014 6:06:12 PM)
and I have run into this kinda bs crap before cuz the library here wont give me a library card cuz I dont have the right ID to get one... You need an ID to get a library card but you shouldn't need one to vote? Don't you drive?

tj444 -> RE: Voter Demographics (11/9/2014 6:30:55 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: BamaD and I have run into this kinda bs crap before cuz the library here wont give me a library card cuz I dont have the right ID to get one... You need an ID to get a library card but you shouldn't need one to vote? Don't you drive? the article is about people that have a legal right to vote, that likely have voted in the past, but new rules now stop them from voting.. and no, I didn't go to the Guardian to get a US news story, I first read about that in the Houston Chronicle but you need to be a subscriber to access their articles online.. so again, its not an f'n myth.. there are lots of other US sources for the same problems with voter ID.. but of course that's not what you want to believe anyway.. http://thinkprogress.org/election/2014/10/27/3584645/texas-voter-id-pollworkers/ Texas Election Judge Had To Turn Away 93-Year-Old Veteran Due To Strict Voter ID Law I have ID, just not what the library wants.. they would be loaning out books which have a value and cost to them, which is different from voting.. you may place some sort of "value" on voting but I don't (since there is no one worth voting for in the US that hasn't been bought and paid for by big corps and the 1%)...

BamaD -> RE: Voter Demographics (11/9/2014 6:35:21 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: tj444 quote: ORIGINAL: BamaD and I have run into this kinda bs crap before cuz the library here wont give me a library card cuz I dont have the right ID to get one... You need an ID to get a library card but you shouldn't need one to vote? Don't you drive? the article is about people that have a legal right to vote, that likely have voted in the past, but new rules now stop them from voting.. and no, I didn't go to the Guardian to get a US news story, I first read about that in the Houston Chronicle but you need to be a subscriber to access their articles online.. so again, its not an f'n myth.. there are lots of other US sources for the same problems with voter ID.. but of course that's not what you want to believe anyway.. http://thinkprogress.org/election/2014/10/27/3584645/texas-voter-id-pollworkers/ Texas Election Judge Had To Turn Away 93-Year-Old Veteran Due To Strict Voter ID Law I have ID, just not what the library wants.. they would be loaning out books which have a value and cost to them, which is different from voting.. you may place some sort of "value" on voting but I don't (since there is no one worth voting for in the US that hasn't been bought and paid for by big corps and the 1%)... If there is no value to voting then what difference does it make?

tj444 -> RE: Voter Demographics (11/9/2014 6:38:18 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: BamaD quote: ORIGINAL: tj444 quote: ORIGINAL: BamaD and I have run into this kinda bs crap before cuz the library here wont give me a library card cuz I dont have the right ID to get one... You need an ID to get a library card but you shouldn't need one to vote? Don't you drive? the article is about people that have a legal right to vote, that likely have voted in the past, but new rules now stop them from voting.. and no, I didn't go to the Guardian to get a US news story, I first read about that in the Houston Chronicle but you need to be a subscriber to access their articles online.. so again, its not an f'n myth.. there are lots of other US sources for the same problems with voter ID.. but of course that's not what you want to believe anyway.. http://thinkprogress.org/election/2014/10/27/3584645/texas-voter-id-pollworkers/ Texas Election Judge Had To Turn Away 93-Year-Old Veteran Due To Strict Voter ID Law I have ID, just not what the library wants.. they would be loaning out books which have a value and cost to them, which is different from voting.. you may place some sort of "value" on voting but I don't (since there is no one worth voting for in the US that hasn't been bought and paid for by big corps and the 1%)... If there is no value to voting then what difference does it make? that is my view on it, apparently some Americans still want to be able to exercise that right.. [sm=dunno.gif]

tj444 -> RE: Voter Demographics (11/9/2014 6:49:17 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: BamaD The part that I do not understand is how is he selling his scrap without a valid picture ID? Everywhere I have been requires one. (Destroying medical imaging equipment produces a LOT of scrap metals.) How did he even get a business license without Id? maybe he has a company and its incorporation documents.. don't you know that corporations are people too??? [;)]

BamaD -> RE: Voter Demographics (11/9/2014 6:59:05 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: tj444 quote: ORIGINAL: BamaD The part that I do not understand is how is he selling his scrap without a valid picture ID? Everywhere I have been requires one. (Destroying medical imaging equipment produces a LOT of scrap metals.) How did he even get a business license without Id? maybe he has a company and its incorporation documents.. don't you know that corporations are people too??? [;)] does he drive? This whole story sound fishy.

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