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How to Tell When It's D/s & Not BDSM Play - 11/7/2014 10:27:44 PM

FieryOpal

Posts: 2821
Joined: 12/8/2013
From: Maryland
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What are your opinions about the difference between D/s-M/s ownership and BDSM Topping & bottoming play? Does it even matter to you, or is this a non-issue when you choose a play partner?

Not only is this confusing to many newbies joining the ranks of BDSM daily, but more experienced BDSMers seem to get the following terms mixed up or else don't know how to differentiate between a Dominant/submissive power & authority dynamic and *just* being a kinkster who lives and lets live. This wouldn't be relevant if I (and others) didn't keep running into the following misunderstandings:

1. Lack of Understanding Regarding CONSENSUALITY

2. Not Knowing Whether One or Others Are, In Fact:
-- Dominant (D/s) and/or Master-Mistress (M/s)
-- Top, but not Dominant (BDSM)
-- submissive (D/s-M/s)
-- slave (M/s)
-- bottom, but not an s-type (BDSM)
-- S/switch (S=Top heavy; s=bottom heavy--BDSM), namely
-- S/switch, more of a BDSM kinkster who is not into D/s Ownership & Worship protocols
-- Sado-masochistic Dominant or s-type (S&M half of BDSM)
-- Sado-masochistic Top or bottom (S&M half of BDSM)
-- Fetishist (not D/s)
-- Vanilla Fantasists and HNGs-Horny Net Geeks (not D/s, BDSM newbie)

Please feel free to add to the above list.

_____________________________

Being deeply loved by someone gives you strength, while loving someone deeply gives you courage. - Lao Tzu
There is no remedy for love but to love more. - Thoreau

Post #: 1

RE: How to Tell When It's D/s & Not BDSM Play - 11/7/2014 11:58:58 PM

LittleGirlHeart

Posts: 1427
Joined: 4/4/2013
Status: offline

Daddy and little, or mommy and little. Whether the little is a boy or girl.

Daddy Dom, little girl, daddy/daughter.

And the difference to me is that if I am just bdsm bottoming, not d/s then I am in control and I call the shots. After a careful and wise choice in D/s that's not so.

< Message edited by LittleGirlHeart -- 11/8/2014 12:08:55 AM >

_____________________________

We'll fight, not out of spite
For someone must stand up for what's right
'Cause where there's a man who has no voice
There ours shall go singing

(in reply to FieryOpal)

Post #: 2

RE: How to Tell When It's D/s & Not BDSM Play - 11/8/2014 2:18:26 AM

MariaB

Posts: 2969
Joined: 4/3/2007
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2. Not Knowing Whether One or Others Are, In Fact: and overly worrying about it
-- Dominant (D/s) and/or Master-Mistress (M/s)
-- Top, but not Dominant (BDSM)
-- submissive (D/s-M/s)
-- slave (M/s)
-- bottom, but not an s-type (BDSM)
-- S/switch (S=Top heavy; s=bottom heavy--BDSM), namely
-- S/switch, more of a BDSM kinkster who is not into D/s Ownership & Worship protocols
-- Sado-masochistic Dominant or s-type (S&M half of BDSM)
-- Sado-masochistic Top or bottom (S&M half of BDSM)
-- Fetishist (not D/s)
-- Vanilla Fantasists and HNGs-Horny Net Geeks (not D/s, BDSM newbie)

Please feel free to add to the above list.

Switch who is very much in a D/s dynamic with primary partner but switches with others.

Fetishist who enjoys many different aspects of the lifestyle whilst still being very much a slave/sub or dominant to their primary partner or other

Dominant but tops others outside of the relationship

submissive masochist who bottoms for others outside of the relationship

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(in reply to FieryOpal)

Post #: 3

RE: How to Tell When It's D/s & Not BDSM Play - 11/8/2014 2:22:35 AM

orgasmdenial12

Posts: 613
Joined: 9/18/2012
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To me it's all just positions on a spectrum.

It's incredibly rare that you meet someone who does 'play' but never submits (or dominates) and vice versa. It also doesn't really matter too much what they say about how 'lifestyle' they are because they might claim that they're a 24/7 slave with no hard limits but when you visit their home, they're just as bossy and unsubmissive (or passive and undominant) as any vanilla couple. What people say about themselves and how they actually are, is not always the same thing.

The great majority of kinksters that I have met in my life mix a combination of play, power exchange and fetish wear, with a bit of toy collecting and membership of groups like this one, and others. That seems to be true for everyone, however they describe themselves.

On a personal level, the only information I really need to figure out about another kinkster is whether they are a sub or a Dom or, in the case of a switch, whether they are more of a D-switch or a s-switch - simply for me to know whether I might play with them. A lot of the other labels seem a bit arbitrary and divisive - like on here when a person might ask about submissive behaviour during a spanking, and be told 'that's not submission, that's just kinky play' as though there were some great divide in the scene - which, in my experience, there is not.

(in reply to FieryOpal)

Post #: 4

RE: How to Tell When It's D/s & Not BDSM Play - 11/8/2014 3:14:11 AM

MariaB

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Joined: 4/3/2007
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@orgasmdenial12

I have also found some friends claiming they are 24/7 and whilst they may look the part on fetish sites and BDSM clubs and munches, there seems to be very little D/s within the home. A particular couple who I know well come to mind. On FL she is highly respected as a lifestyle slave and when we are out and about with like minded people she's this little meek mouse but I know what she's really like and omg has she got a mouthy gob on her within the home. I think this is fairly common and I just don't get it. Saying that, I know a few lifestyle couples that really are lifestyle couples.

_____________________________

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Post #: 5

RE: How to Tell When It's D/s & Not BDSM Play - 11/8/2014 3:44:57 AM

ExiledTyrant

Posts: 4547
Joined: 12/9/2013
From: Exiled
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: MariaB

@orgasmdenial12

I have also found some friends claiming they are 24/7 and whilst they may look the part on fetish sites and BDSM clubs and munches, there seems to be very little D/s within the home. A particular couple who I know well come to mind. On FL she is highly respected as a lifestyle slave and when we are out and about with like minded people she's this little meek mouse but I know what she's really like and omg has she got a mouthy gob on her within the home. I think this is fairly common and I just don't get it. Saying that, I know a few lifestyle couples that really are lifestyle couples.

My Home is Wrigley Field.

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To lead, first follow: Aurelius, Epictetus, Descartes, Sun Tzu, to name a few.

Semper fidelis (which sometimes feels like a burden)

(in reply to MariaB)

Post #: 6

RE: How to Tell When It's D/s & Not BDSM Play - 11/8/2014 5:12:04 AM

crazyml

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Joined: 7/3/2007
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I have a feeling that thwas distinctions are most often invoked by people who want to claim that somehow their experience or dynamic is somehow "better" or more "authentic".. not that I'm suggesting the OP is prone to this.

Aso orgasmdenial points out, there's a spectrum, and if your spot on the spectrum works for you, I am not going to judge ... unless you assert that your dynamic is "true" and that the dynamic someone else adopts is "false"

_____________________________

Remember.... There's always somewhere on the planet where it's jackass o'clock.

(in reply to FieryOpal)

Post #: 7

RE: How to Tell When It's D/s & Not BDSM Play - 11/8/2014 5:26:32 AM

shiftyw

Posts: 2837
Joined: 6/6/2013
From: The Shire
Status: offline

I'm with orgasmdenial on this one. I like spectrums.

(in reply to crazyml)

Post #: 8

RE: How to Tell When It's D/s & Not BDSM Play - 11/8/2014 5:29:26 AM

ExiledTyrant

Posts: 4547
Joined: 12/9/2013
From: Exiled
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: FieryOpal

What are your opinions about the difference between D/s-M/s ownership and BDSM Topping & bottoming play? Does it even matter to you, or is this a non-issue when you choose a play partner?

Seems to me that it is Top & bottom until it migrates beyond casual play, then D/s until, and/or if, it migrates into a 24/7 dynamic, which the label could remain D/s or move into M/s. However, until actual play occurs you're all just a bunch of slutty teases.

Jus sayin

_____________________________

Gnothi Seauton
To lead, first follow: Aurelius, Epictetus, Descartes, Sun Tzu, to name a few.

Semper fidelis (which sometimes feels like a burden)

(in reply to FieryOpal)

Post #: 9

RE: How to Tell When It's D/s & Not BDSM Play - 11/8/2014 5:59:29 AM

shiftyw

Posts: 2837
Joined: 6/6/2013
From: The Shire
Status: offline

Well...

Now I'm gonna just say...
I got so sick of being told I wasnt 'twue' as a submissive because it didn't extend outside sexy time for me.
So I call myself a bottom now. Boyfriend gets told all the time that I'm calling the shots, and he says "outside the bedroom she does call some shots, but I'm the boss when we have sex and that's how we both like it"

So idk, to me what matters is never the label and very much the happiness.

(in reply to ExiledTyrant)

Post #: 10

RE: How to Tell When It's D/s & Not BDSM Play - 11/8/2014 6:06:52 AM

ExiledTyrant

Posts: 4547
Joined: 12/9/2013
From: Exiled
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: shiftyw

Well...

Now I'm gonna just say...
I got so sick of being told I wasnt 'twue' as a submissive because it didn't extend outside sexy time for me.
So I call myself a bottom now. Boyfriend gets told all the time that I'm calling the shots, and he says "outside the bedroom she does call some shots, but I'm the boss when we have sex and that's how we both like it"

So idk, to me what matters is never the label and very much the happiness.

Spoken like a real and true slutty tease!

Baby Doll, it doesn't matter what others think, the only thing that matters is your happiness in your dynamic.

_____________________________

Gnothi Seauton
To lead, first follow: Aurelius, Epictetus, Descartes, Sun Tzu, to name a few.

Semper fidelis (which sometimes feels like a burden)

(in reply to shiftyw)

Post #: 11

RE: How to Tell When It's D/s & Not BDSM Play - 11/8/2014 6:10:47 AM

shiftyw

Posts: 2837
Joined: 6/6/2013
From: The Shire
Status: offline

Oh it doesn't matter to me, but there is a whole world of people who get their dicks hard talking about what domly doms they are.
And FO did ask the question, I kinda phoned in my first answer.

(in reply to ExiledTyrant)

Post #: 12

RE: How to Tell When It's D/s & Not BDSM Play - 11/8/2014 7:11:22 AM

FieryOpal

Posts: 2821
Joined: 12/8/2013
From: Maryland
Status: offline

~ FR ~ Wow, you all gave such cool answers, and this does make me think how annoyed I get by extremes of high protocol, but also by no protocol! I try to be tolerant of others, but when a slave keeps referring to himself or herself as an "it".... ('Nuff said, lest I sound critical of the old leather guard, and I don't even know for sure if they are the ones who started this practice.) Obviously, if I am not in some sort of a dynamic or not considering one with somebody, I have no expectation of protocol other than observing standard social vanilla manners or etiquette with that person.

Btw, I didn't make a separate distinction between TPE 24/7 (M/s) and bedroom D/s, since that gets worked out between partners and can evolve over time like it did between my late husband & myself over a period of years.

@LittleGirlHeart
How right you are that this would have to be D/s because otherwise bg-lg's and and bb-lb's would be ruling the roost, or constantly Topping from the bottom with their DaddyDoms & MommyDommes.

@MariaB
Your open-minded perspective is refreshing to say the least and goes to show that labels can be too confining.
Among friends, these distinctions shouldn't make any difference or not much of a difference.
There are submissives who only want their Master or Mistress to behave Dom/mely, and any behavior which goes against the grain undermines their preconceptions.
I remember a post you made from over a year ago, if memory serves me (forgive me if I'm missing details), and you were describing how two of your subs gave you notice that they could no longer serve you because they had seen you try out a (rope?) suspension gig in a club and despite that it was being manned by a male sub, they were mortified by this.

@crazyml
I probably am prone to this insofar as my personal preference for D/s is concerned. I don't require experience, though, and I'm on the fence so to speak about whether it's harder to break old habits with those who have been in multiple D/s-M/s relationships (e.g., my Mistress did things this way, or I haven't had vanilla sex in 10 years) and those who simply want their BDSM itch scratched with a play partner. The latter is a perfectly valid choice for them but not for me in a committed LTR.

@orgasmdenial12, @shiftyw, and @ExiledTyrant
Thank you for sharing. Good stuff.

_____________________________

Being deeply loved by someone gives you strength, while loving someone deeply gives you courage. - Lao Tzu
There is no remedy for love but to love more. - Thoreau

(in reply to shiftyw)

Post #: 13

RE: How to Tell When It's D/s & Not BDSM Play - 11/8/2014 7:24:57 AM

MariaB

Posts: 2969
Joined: 4/3/2007
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: FieryOpal

I remember a post you made from over a year ago, if memory serves me (forgive me if I'm missing details), and you were describing how two of your subs gave you notice that they could no longer serve you because they had seen you try out a (rope?) suspension gig in a club and despite that it was being manned by a male sub, they were mortified by this.

That night had to be one of the best nights of my life. Don't you just get sick of filling other peoples expectations

. It was a couple of male subs who I had played with randomly and always came to the clubs they knew I was attending in hope of me entertaining them. They were not "my" subs...god forbid, I would never take on such needy people.

The delight I felt looking over at these two devastated faces as I swung from the ropes will never leave me. It was the best one finger salute I've ever given

. One of them wrote to me on an old account of a now closed site saying, "You live a lie and decieve people like me for your own gain." I never wrote back.

_____________________________

My store is http://e-stimstore.com

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Post #: 14

RE: How to Tell When It's D/s & Not BDSM Play - 11/8/2014 7:32:05 AM

ExiledTyrant

Posts: 4547
Joined: 12/9/2013
From: Exiled
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Maria, I always find it ironic and usually moronic when people assume that X is dominant behavior and Y is submissive behavior. I do what I do for me, it's a happy accident that she likes it... more appropriately, her making a good choice in pairing all the self serving shit I do with the her wants and needs.

_____________________________

Gnothi Seauton
To lead, first follow: Aurelius, Epictetus, Descartes, Sun Tzu, to name a few.

Semper fidelis (which sometimes feels like a burden)

(in reply to MariaB)

Post #: 15

RE: How to Tell When It's D/s & Not BDSM Play - 11/8/2014 7:57:36 AM

InHisHeart

Posts: 630
Joined: 3/22/2014
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: FieryOpal

What are your opinions about the difference between D/s-M/s ownership and BDSM Topping & bottoming play? Does it even matter to you, or is this a non-issue when you choose a play partner?

Not only is this confusing to many newbies joining the ranks of BDSM daily, but more experienced BDSMers seem to get the following terms mixed up or else don't know how to differentiate between a Dominant/submissive power & authority dynamic and *just* being a kinkster who lives and lets live. This wouldn't be relevant if I (and others) didn't keep running into the following misunderstandings:

1. Lack of Understanding Regarding CONSENSUALITY

2. Not Knowing Whether One or Others Are, In Fact:
-- Dominant (D/s) and/or Master-Mistress (M/s)
-- Top, but not Dominant (BDSM)
-- submissive (D/s-M/s)
*snip* and so on..................

To the first question, I don't play casually so I don't choose play partners, I choose a long term relationship partner who also must be a Dom in and out of the bedroom, who must want a sub in and out of the bedroom. There has to be mutual emotional and physical attraction. He must be the right Dom for me and I must be the right sub for him.

Not knowing whether one or others are in fact..............

The only people who can say I'm in fact a submissive, he's a Dom and we live a D/s relationship that involves BDSM is Master and I. Even though I call him Master, we are D/s, not M/s. I've been told by someone in RL that I'm more of a slave than a sub. I do not have a slave bone in my body, I want no part of being a slave, never did and don't see myself ever being or wanting to be a slave but that is based on "my" interpretation of what a slave is. Their interpretation of sub and slave is apparently much different than mine. [/color]

On the other hand, I've been told that we don't really have a D/s relationship because of the freedom I do have and they feel submissives in a D/s relationship shouldn't have the freedoms I have. Who is to say what a s should or shouldn't be able to do except for the D in that relationship after those things were discussed and agreed on before getting into the relationship.

I think people put way too much emphasis on labels. Shifty summed it up best with......."to me what matters is never the label and very much the happiness"

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I don't have a bucket list but my fucket list is a mile long.

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Post #: 16

RE: How to Tell When It's D/s & Not BDSM Play - 11/8/2014 8:11:11 AM

FieryOpal

Posts: 2821
Joined: 12/8/2013
From: Maryland
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: InHisHeart
<snip>
On the other hand, I've been told that we don't really have a D/s relationship because of the freedom I do have and they feel submissives in a D/s relationship shouldn't have the freedoms I have. Who is to say what a s should or shouldn't be able to do except for the D in that relationship after those things were discussed and agreed on before getting into the relationship.

What? Who said submissives shouldn't have freedoms and/or other privileges? You're not the one going around saying you are a slave either, so who are they to judge?

There's a big difference between having liberties and taking liberties. Regardless, if your Master is fine with how things are between the two of you, and you're content, then there should be no doubt in anyone else's mind that that's all that matters.

_____________________________

Being deeply loved by someone gives you strength, while loving someone deeply gives you courage. - Lao Tzu
There is no remedy for love but to love more. - Thoreau

(in reply to InHisHeart)

Post #: 17

RE: How to Tell When It's D/s & Not BDSM Play - 11/8/2014 8:33:29 AM

MariaB

Posts: 2969
Joined: 4/3/2007
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: ExiledTyrant

Maria, I always find it ironic and usually moronic when people assume that X is dominant behavior and Y is submissive behavior. I do what I do for me, it's a happy accident that she likes it... more appropriately, her making a good choice in pairing all the self serving shit I do with the her wants and needs.

Yeah me too. Far too many dominant types become the puppet to their submissive. I can’t imagine living a life in fear of displeasing my sub or having my sub doubt my dominance because of my sometimes wacky behaviour but it clearly happens a lot. I absolutely refuse to wear the stiffly starched collar I see other dominants wearing. Life’s too short to be a kink service provider.

_____________________________

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Post #: 18

RE: How to Tell When It's D/s & Not BDSM Play - 11/8/2014 9:17:39 AM

DesFIP

Posts: 25191
Joined: 11/25/2007
From: Apple County NY
Status: offline

It's not important in a play partner because I wouldn't submit to a play partner. If I wanted to ask someone who does florentine flogging to do that to me, I don't need to know how they label themselves. I only need to know if they're competent as a top in this.

Lots of people think the activity determines the orientation. I disagree in theory. Meaning intellectually I know the difference. However, watching a potential dom bottoming is going to change how I feel about him. I might still like him as a friend but I wouldn't accept him as my dominant.

And I'm allowed to be illogical in my emotional responses.

I'm also allowed to be happy in my relationship and still be submissive. Too many people seem to think that if you aren't suffering, you aren't submissive. I'm submissive but I am not an emotional masochist.

_____________________________

Slave to laundry

Cynical and proud of it!

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Post #: 19

RE: How to Tell When It's D/s & Not BDSM Play - 11/8/2014 9:23:29 AM

MariaB

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Joined: 4/3/2007
Status: offline

What is a Florentine flogging?

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Post #: 20

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