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RE: So the anti choice movement is just about abortion,... - 11/19/2014 4:17:03 PM   
GotSteel


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quote:

ORIGINAL: BitYakin
...if someone BELEIVES that glob of cells to be a human being...


Like I said that's where religion comes in.

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RE: So the anti choice movement is just about abortion,... - 11/19/2014 4:26:07 PM   
GotSteel


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quote:

ORIGINAL: thishereboi
So my athiest friend who used to state that she didn't need some imaginary guy in the sky to tell her abortion was wrong was really lying? Even though she claimed her view had nothing to do with religion, you know better right? Now if I had to guess I would say that the majority of people against abortion have some kind of religion that is driving their views but to come here and claim that they all do is just stupid and one of the main reasons I ignore much of what you say.


I was talking about contraceptives, you know the topic but by all means don't let reality get in the way of a good witch hunt.

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RE: So the anti choice movement is just about abortion,... - 11/19/2014 4:37:42 PM   
BitYakin


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quote:

ORIGINAL: GotSteel

quote:

ORIGINAL: BitYakin
...if someone BELEIVES that glob of cells to be a human being...


Like I said that's where religion comes in.



and as I said that's where science comes in...

is it alive, well it grows soo yes its alive

run a DNA test on it, its not dog or cat or fish or bird or lizard, its HUMAN, so science says its both ALIVE and HUMAN...

now go ahead and SAY AGAIN, that's where religion comes in, say it 100 times, a 1000 times, but you saying it doesn't make it so

< Message edited by BitYakin -- 11/19/2014 4:38:45 PM >

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RE: So the anti choice movement is just about abortion,... - 11/19/2014 5:10:58 PM   
thishereboi


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quote:

ORIGINAL: DomKen

quote:

ORIGINAL: thishereboi


quote:

ORIGINAL: GotSteel


quote:

ORIGINAL: BitYakin
I seeee, soo protecting what some feel is an innocent human life is NOT A MORAL ISSUE???


This is where the religion comes in, since you were just asking that. The supernatural understanding of things which conflates a single celled organism with a baby and conflates contraception with abortion THAT's where religion comes in.



So my athiest friend who used to state that she didn't need some imaginary guy in the sky to tell her abortion was wrong was really lying? Even though she claimed her view had nothing to do with religion, you know better right? Now if I had to guess I would say that the majority of people against abortion have some kind of religion that is driving their views but to come here and claim that they all do is just stupid and one of the main reasons I ignore much of what you say.

She may have claimed her view had nothing do with religion but that would have been an unconsidered claim. Considering all the evidence it is unreasonable to prioritize a clump of cells that cannot live on its own over a fully independent human being. There has to be some other reason for doing so. The only reason known is the prevailing religious faith of our culture.



And yet there she is, she doesn't believe in any sort of god and thinks religion is a tool people use to get others to perform for them. And she thinks abortion is murder. I guess you don't know as much as you think you do.

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RE: So the anti choice movement is just about abortion,... - 11/19/2014 5:20:18 PM   
DomKen


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quote:

ORIGINAL: thishereboi


quote:

ORIGINAL: DomKen

quote:

ORIGINAL: thishereboi


quote:

ORIGINAL: GotSteel


quote:

ORIGINAL: BitYakin
I seeee, soo protecting what some feel is an innocent human life is NOT A MORAL ISSUE???


This is where the religion comes in, since you were just asking that. The supernatural understanding of things which conflates a single celled organism with a baby and conflates contraception with abortion THAT's where religion comes in.



So my athiest friend who used to state that she didn't need some imaginary guy in the sky to tell her abortion was wrong was really lying? Even though she claimed her view had nothing to do with religion, you know better right? Now if I had to guess I would say that the majority of people against abortion have some kind of religion that is driving their views but to come here and claim that they all do is just stupid and one of the main reasons I ignore much of what you say.

She may have claimed her view had nothing do with religion but that would have been an unconsidered claim. Considering all the evidence it is unreasonable to prioritize a clump of cells that cannot live on its own over a fully independent human being. There has to be some other reason for doing so. The only reason known is the prevailing religious faith of our culture.



And yet there she is, she doesn't believe in any sort of god and thinks religion is a tool people use to get others to perform for them. And she thinks abortion is murder. I guess you don't know as much as you think you do.

Or as I pointed out your friend is irrational and has never actually thought through her positions. Much like you. It is no wonder you two are friends. I've found that people who don't think do tend to congregate.

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RE: So the anti choice movement is just about abortion,... - 11/19/2014 5:24:04 PM   
DomKen


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Status: offline 		Here's a question for the right to lifers, is every human cell able to live on its own a human life? If yes what should be done to someone who has intentionally killed several million said lives? Several billion?

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RE: So the anti choice movement is just about abortion,... - 11/19/2014 6:31:16 PM   
GotSteel


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quote:

ORIGINAL: DomKen
Here's a question for the right to lifers, is every human cell able to live on its own a human life? If yes what should be done to someone who has intentionally killed several million said lives? Several billion?


I shaved today, that makes me a mass murderer

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RE: So the anti choice movement is just about abortion,... - 11/19/2014 6:51:43 PM   
GotSteel


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quote:

ORIGINAL: thishereboi
So my athiest friend who used to state that she didn't need some imaginary guy in the sky to tell her abortion was wrong was really lying? Even though she claimed her view had nothing to do with religion, you know better right?


quote:

ORIGINAL: thishereboi
And yet there she is, she doesn't believe in any sort of god and thinks religion is a tool people use to get others to perform for them. And she thinks abortion is murder. I guess you don't know as much as you think you do.


So...big problem with the atheist label is that it doesn't tell us a thing about what someone believes, just that they don't believe one thing. There are a lot of very religious atheists, Buddhists and Scientologists are classic examples. So your friend seems pretty against organized religion, is she into spirituality (aka disorganized religion)? Which is also a pretty common stance.


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RE: So the anti choice movement is just about abortion,... - 11/19/2014 7:58:31 PM   
thishereboi


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Status: offline 		No she isn't. But I am not surprised you resort to name calling when anyone disagrees with you or suggests you might not know how everyone else thinks. If I remember correctly you are also the poster who claimed a fetus wasn't alive.

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RE: So the anti choice movement is just about abortion,... - 11/19/2014 8:03:11 PM   
thishereboi


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quote:

ORIGINAL: GotSteel

quote:

ORIGINAL: thishereboi
So my athiest friend who used to state that she didn't need some imaginary guy in the sky to tell her abortion was wrong was really lying? Even though she claimed her view had nothing to do with religion, you know better right?


quote:

ORIGINAL: thishereboi
And yet there she is, she doesn't believe in any sort of god and thinks religion is a tool people use to get others to perform for them. And she thinks abortion is murder. I guess you don't know as much as you think you do.


So...big problem with the atheist label is that it doesn't tell us a thing about what someone believes, just that they don't believe one thing. There are a lot of very religious atheists, Buddhists and Scientologists are classic examples. So your friend seems pretty against organized religion, is she into spirituality (aka disorganized religion)? Which is also a pretty common stance.





No, she wasn't into any kind of spirituality either. But she did seem to think she had the right to dictate how others acted and was could never understand why I wouldn't bow to her superior intelligence and give up on my faith. One of the main reasons I stopped having anything to do with her.

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Profile   Post #: 50
RE: So the anti choice movement is just about abortion,... - 11/19/2014 8:20:47 PM   
GotSteel


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quote:

ORIGINAL: thishereboi
But she did seem to think she had the right to dictate how others acted and was could never understand why I wouldn't bow to her superior intelligence and give up on my faith. One of the main reasons I stopped having anything to do with her.


Well that's so vague I couldn't possibly comment but getting back to the subject, do you know her reasoning and the extent of her anti-abortion views? For instance I assume she didn't think single celled organisms are people too.

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RE: So the anti choice movement is just about abortion,... - 11/20/2014 4:13:15 AM   
eulero83


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quote:

ORIGINAL: BitYakin

quote:

ORIGINAL: GotSteel

quote:

ORIGINAL: BitYakin
...if someone BELEIVES that glob of cells to be a human being...


Like I said that's where religion comes in.



and as I said that's where science comes in...

is it alive, well it grows soo yes its alive

run a DNA test on it, its not dog or cat or fish or bird or lizard, its HUMAN, so science says its both ALIVE and HUMAN...

now go ahead and SAY AGAIN, that's where religion comes in, say it 100 times, a 1000 times, but you saying it doesn't make it so


yes ok but the question is when you can consider those cells to have develloped enough to be considered an individual and not just a group of cells growing from the woman's body. That's what the debate is about, and considering that point conception (or even the moment before) has a direct connection with religious believes through the concept of soul and when god provides it.

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RE: So the anti choice movement is just about abortion,... - 11/20/2014 6:00:44 AM   
thishereboi


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quote:

ORIGINAL: GotSteel


quote:

ORIGINAL: thishereboi
But she did seem to think she had the right to dictate how others acted and was could never understand why I wouldn't bow to her superior intelligence and give up on my faith. One of the main reasons I stopped having anything to do with her.


Well that's so vague I couldn't possibly comment but getting back to the subject, do you know her reasoning and the extent of her anti-abortion views? For instance I assume she didn't think single celled organisms are people too.



Her reasoning was that left alone the fetus would grow into a baby. If you got an abortion, it wouldn't and she saw that as murder. I don't remember ever discussing single celled organisms so I can't say what she thought about them.

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RE: So the anti choice movement is just about abortion,... - 11/20/2014 3:45:53 PM   
Hillwilliam


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quote:

ORIGINAL: BitYakin



a good question though might be, is there a difference between a glob of cancer cells and a glob of baby cells?

I would think there is, one is a mass of cells that if left alone would kill the host, the other is a mass of cells that if left alone would born a child...

Incorrect. If you leave either of them alone, they will die.
They both need a host to live and grow.
This is why they refer to "Fetal Viability".

I thought you were claiming to be intelligent. Any 9th grade biology student knows these things.

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RE: So the anti choice movement is just about abortion,... - 11/21/2014 11:01:59 AM   
GotSteel


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quote:

ORIGINAL: thishereboi
Her reasoning was that left alone the fetus would grow into a baby. If you got an abortion, it wouldn't and she saw that as murder. I don't remember ever discussing single celled organisms so I can't say what she thought about them.


Well I want refrain from joining Ken and judging her thought process based on your retelling as things tend to get lost in translation but as presented that argument is nonsense.

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RE: So the anti choice movement is just about abortion,... - 11/21/2014 2:06:36 PM   
thishereboi


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quote:

ORIGINAL: GotSteel


quote:

ORIGINAL: thishereboi
Her reasoning was that left alone the fetus would grow into a baby. If you got an abortion, it wouldn't and she saw that as murder. I don't remember ever discussing single celled organisms so I can't say what she thought about them.


Well I want refrain from joining Ken and judging her thought process based on your retelling as things tend to get lost in translation but as presented that argument is nonsense.



So sorry for the misunderstanding. I never claimed what she said made any sense. I said her reasoning was not based on any religious belief.

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RE: So the anti choice movement is just about abortion,... - 11/21/2014 3:16:25 PM   
crazyml


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quote:

ORIGINAL: BitYakin
life does not begin at inception? sooo fetus's aren't ALIVE then?

sorry NO, even a tree I alive, but I don't have a moral issue with chopping one down...


That'll be because you're confused about the definition of "alive" when used in the context of the moral issues surrounding abortion.

A cancerous tumor is "alive", but relatively few people would argue that it has a right to "life".

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RE: So the anti choice movement is just about abortion,... - 11/21/2014 3:18:30 PM   
crazyml


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Status: offline 		Fuck me... you could apply that test to your toenail clippings.

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RE: So the anti choice movement is just about abortion,... - 11/21/2014 3:22:33 PM   
crazyml


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Status: offline 		To be fair, whatever the academic's religious beliefs, the arguments made are not based on religion.

It's a pretty good defence of the anti-abortion case.

Now, to me it fails because it stoops to the "you can't take life" without properly addressing the issue of when a foetus ceases to become a parasitic growth inside a woman's body and begins to be a life in its own right.

My personal opinion is that that transition takes place on the date the little fucker makes his or her first mortgage payment. But then my views on abortion are pretty far out.

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RE: So the anti choice movement is just about abortion,... - 11/21/2014 3:39:56 PM   
eulero83


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quote:

ORIGINAL: thishereboi


quote:

ORIGINAL: GotSteel


quote:

ORIGINAL: thishereboi
Her reasoning was that left alone the fetus would grow into a baby. If you got an abortion, it wouldn't and she saw that as murder. I don't remember ever discussing single celled organisms so I can't say what she thought about them.


Well I want refrain from joining Ken and judging her thought process based on your retelling as things tend to get lost in translation but as presented that argument is nonsense.



So sorry for the misunderstanding. I never claimed what she said made any sense. I said her reasoning was not based on any religious belief.


yes and no... I mean it's not she was born among monkeys and got that thought before knowing what christianity was, she probably felt those arguments heard from religious people made sense to her. Being atheist means just you don't believe in god, it doesn't mean you have to refuse anything any religion preaches, it doesn't tie you to any believe system like a religion.
I actually don't need a god to enjoy christmas or eastern.

< Message edited by eulero83 -- 11/21/2014 3:48:09 PM >

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