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RE: President Obama prepared to go it alone on Thursday - 11/20/2014 1:04:00 PM   
truckinslave


Posts: 3897
Joined: 6/16/2004
Status: offline 		Your post assumes that all possible executive actions (on immigration) are equal, or at least equally legal.

Which is, of course, asinine.

_____________________________

1. Islam and sharia are indivisible.
2. Sharia is barbaric, homophobic, violent, and inimical to the most basic Western values (including free speech and freedom of religion). (Yeah, I know: SEE: Irony 101).
ERGO: Islam has no place in America.

(in reply to CentralFLDomCPL)
Profile   Post #: 21
RE: President Obama prepared to go it alone on Thursday - 11/20/2014 1:35:34 PM   
DomKen


Posts: 19457
Joined: 7/4/2004
From: Chicago, IL
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: truckinslave

Your post assumes that all possible executive actions (on immigration) are equal, or at least equally legal.

Which is, of course, asinine.


I'd love to hear how what the President proposes tonight is less legal than what Reagan or either Bush did by executive order. Precisely in detail.

(in reply to truckinslave)
Profile   Post #: 22
RE: President Obama prepared to go it alone on Thursday - 11/20/2014 1:45:22 PM   
truckinslave


Posts: 3897
Joined: 6/16/2004
Status: offline 		Then you should read Heckler v Cheney, the Congressional Research Service analysis by attorneys Kate M. Manuel and Michael John Garvis, and the relevant wrirings of John McGinnis, a law prof at Northwestern.

There are problems both of scope and permissible motive; there is also a much narrower question about which I started a specific thread.

_____________________________

1. Islam and sharia are indivisible.
2. Sharia is barbaric, homophobic, violent, and inimical to the most basic Western values (including free speech and freedom of religion). (Yeah, I know: SEE: Irony 101).
ERGO: Islam has no place in America.

(in reply to DomKen)
Profile   Post #: 23
RE: President Obama prepared to go it alone on Thursday - 11/20/2014 2:32:05 PM   
DesideriScuri


Posts: 12225
Joined: 1/18/2012
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: DomKen
quote:

ORIGINAL: truckinslave
Your post assumes that all possible executive actions (on immigration) are equal, or at least equally legal.
Which is, of course, asinine.

I'd love to hear how what the President proposes tonight is less legal than what Reagan or either Bush did by executive order. Precisely in detail.


What EO did Bush 41 sign about immigration?

Did you not read my earlier post that showed that Reagan, Bush 43, AND Clinton, all wrote EO's that were specifically mentioned as being allowed, in US Code?

Unless Obama is going to follow suit and award qualification to undocumented immigrants who have fought in some military conflict that hasn't yet been mentioned in an EO, his actions won't be the same as Reagan, Bush 43, and Clinton.

Obviously, we'll have to wait and see what the President is considering, but when you compare legality of two actions, those actions should be similar in more than just a broad category, like "immigration-related."


_____________________________

What I support:

  • A Conservative interpretation of the US Constitution
  • Personal Responsibility
  • Help for the truly needy
  • Limited Government
  • Consumption Tax (non-profit charities and food exempt)

(in reply to DomKen)
Profile   Post #: 24
RE: President Obama prepared to go it alone on Thursday - 11/20/2014 6:41:21 PM   
Marini


Posts: 3629
Joined: 2/14/2010
Status: offline 		I heard most of the speech, I am gazing over the transcripts now.

CNN--Transcript of President Obama's immigration speech

well well
yeah yeah

_____________________________

As always, To EACH their Own.
"And as we let our own light shine, we unconsciously give other people permission to do the same. "
Nelson Mandela
Life-long Democrat, not happy at all with Democratic Party.
NOT a Republican/Moderate and free agent

(in reply to Marini)
Profile   Post #: 25
RE: President Obama prepared to go it alone on Thursday - 11/20/2014 7:22:43 PM   
Aylee


Posts: 24103
Joined: 10/14/2007
Status: offline 		YAY! More foreign workers created than jobs that were created. How could this go wrong?

_____________________________

Ceterum censeo Carthaginem esse delendam

I don’t always wgah’nagl fhtagn. But when I do, I ph’nglui mglw’nafh R’lyeh.

(in reply to Marini)
Profile   Post #: 26
RE: President Obama prepared to go it alone on Thursday - 11/20/2014 7:26:44 PM   
DomKen


Posts: 19457
Joined: 7/4/2004
From: Chicago, IL
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: DesideriScuri

quote:

ORIGINAL: DomKen
quote:

ORIGINAL: truckinslave
Your post assumes that all possible executive actions (on immigration) are equal, or at least equally legal.
Which is, of course, asinine.

I'd love to hear how what the President proposes tonight is less legal than what Reagan or either Bush did by executive order. Precisely in detail.


What EO did Bush 41 sign about immigration?

Did you not read my earlier post that showed that Reagan, Bush 43, AND Clinton, all wrote EO's that were specifically mentioned as being allowed, in US Code?

Unless Obama is going to follow suit and award qualification to undocumented immigrants who have fought in some military conflict that hasn't yet been mentioned in an EO, his actions won't be the same as Reagan, Bush 43, and Clinton.

Obviously, we'll have to wait and see what the President is considering, but when you compare legality of two actions, those actions should be similar in more than just a broad category, like "immigration-related."


Those are not the only EO's on immigration issued by Reagan and the Bush's. Do better research.

(in reply to DesideriScuri)
Profile   Post #: 27
RE: President Obama prepared to go it alone on Thursday - 11/20/2014 7:45:36 PM   
Marini


Posts: 3629
Joined: 2/14/2010
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Aylee

YAY! More foreign workers created than jobs that were created. How could this go wrong?



sshhh Aylee, we are not supposed to be that smart.
Our economy is stagnant, and hardly vibrant, how the hell is all of this sustainable?

Does anyone care about the millions of citizens already here, that are going hungry? homeless? unable to make ends meet?/ or the decimation of a large portion of the struggling middle class?

Does anyone care about the citizens that have
been unable to gain employment or are underemployed?
I would just like to see a LITTLE of this concern/or maybe some of it put into helping the millions that are already here and struggling like hell.

Oops, I forget, this is not about helping the millions here that are hopeless, I am sorry.



< Message edited by Marini -- 11/20/2014 8:03:52 PM >

_____________________________

As always, To EACH their Own.
"And as we let our own light shine, we unconsciously give other people permission to do the same. "
Nelson Mandela
Life-long Democrat, not happy at all with Democratic Party.
NOT a Republican/Moderate and free agent

(in reply to Aylee)
Profile   Post #: 28
RE: President Obama prepared to go it alone on Thursday - 11/20/2014 8:04:02 PM   
Gauge


Posts: 5689
Joined: 6/17/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Marini

sshhh Aylee, we are not supposed to be that smart.
Our economy is stagnant, and hardly vibrant, how the hell is all of this sustainable?

Does anyone care about the millions of citizens already here, that are going hungry? homeless? unable to make ends meet?/ or the decimation of a large portion of the struggling middle class?

Does anyone care about the citizens that have been unable to gain employment or are underemployed?
I would just like to see a LITTLE of this concern/or maybe some of it put into helping the millions that are already here and struggling like hell.

Seriously, does anyone care about the millions already here that are not doing well at all?


They didn't care before, why the fuck should anyone start now? If you think that immigration caused this, you don't understand the problem.

_____________________________

"For there is no folly of the beast of the earth which is not infinitely outdone by the madness of men." Herman Melville - Moby Dick

I'm wearing my chicken suit and humming La Marseillaise.

(in reply to Marini)
Profile   Post #: 29
RE: President Obama prepared to go it alone on Thursday - 11/20/2014 8:10:15 PM   
Marini


Posts: 3629
Joined: 2/14/2010
Status: offline 		Gauge, have I EVER said that immigration caused this?

Please show me where I have ever said that?

I said, I would like to see the same level of concern and attention, for the millions that are falling through the cracks.

I have a right to voice my opinion, about the great many people here, that are struggling like hell.

Why can't we bring attention to both situations?

_____________________________

As always, To EACH their Own.
"And as we let our own light shine, we unconsciously give other people permission to do the same. "
Nelson Mandela
Life-long Democrat, not happy at all with Democratic Party.
NOT a Republican/Moderate and free agent

(in reply to Gauge)
Profile   Post #: 30
RE: President Obama prepared to go it alone on Thursday - 11/20/2014 8:17:53 PM   
Gauge


Posts: 5689
Joined: 6/17/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Marini

Gauge, have I EVER said that immigration caused this?

Please show me where I have ever said that?



Nope, you didn't say it. Didn't mean to imply you did.

quote:

I said, I would like to see the same level of concern and attention, for the millions that are falling through the cracks.


You and me both.

quote:

I have a right to voice my opinion, about the great many people here, that are struggling like hell.


Never said you didn't have that right.

quote:

Why can't we bring attention to both situations?


Because they are different problems and should be treated as such.

_____________________________

"For there is no folly of the beast of the earth which is not infinitely outdone by the madness of men." Herman Melville - Moby Dick

I'm wearing my chicken suit and humming La Marseillaise.

(in reply to Marini)
Profile   Post #: 31
RE: President Obama prepared to go it alone on Thursday - 11/20/2014 8:26:56 PM   
Marini


Posts: 3629
Joined: 2/14/2010
Status: offline 		If millions are coming here to work, and surely not coming to get entitlement programs, than discussing the employment situation and economic conditions of the existing citizenry is indeed "relevant".

< Message edited by Marini -- 11/20/2014 8:29:04 PM >

_____________________________

As always, To EACH their Own.
"And as we let our own light shine, we unconsciously give other people permission to do the same. "
Nelson Mandela
Life-long Democrat, not happy at all with Democratic Party.
NOT a Republican/Moderate and free agent

(in reply to Gauge)
Profile   Post #: 32
RE: President Obama prepared to go it alone on Thursday - 11/20/2014 8:30:26 PM   
Gauge


Posts: 5689
Joined: 6/17/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Marini

If millions are coming here to work, and surely not coming to get entitlement programs, than discussing the employment situation and economic conditions of the existing citizenry is indeed "relevant".


Oh. I thought you said immigration didn't cause that. My mistake.

_____________________________

"For there is no folly of the beast of the earth which is not infinitely outdone by the madness of men." Herman Melville - Moby Dick

I'm wearing my chicken suit and humming La Marseillaise.

(in reply to Marini)
Profile   Post #: 33
RE: President Obama prepared to go it alone on Thursday - 11/20/2014 8:31:34 PM   
Marini


Posts: 3629
Joined: 2/14/2010
Status: offline 		I like this game.
Read what I said above.

_____________________________

As always, To EACH their Own.
"And as we let our own light shine, we unconsciously give other people permission to do the same. "
Nelson Mandela
Life-long Democrat, not happy at all with Democratic Party.
NOT a Republican/Moderate and free agent

(in reply to Gauge)
Profile   Post #: 34
RE: President Obama prepared to go it alone on Thursday - 11/20/2014 8:38:30 PM   
Gauge


Posts: 5689
Joined: 6/17/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Marini

I like this game.
Read what I said above.


It's a game that you are ill qualified to play.

You did exactly what I expected you to do. It is what everyone does when talking about immigration. While I do agree that the plight of the middle class is dire, it was never caused by immigration. That it is warranted in a discussion in parallel with immigration and it suddenly makes it relevant by association is a typical ploy used by those that would rather point fingers at the dirty foreigners instead of those that are raping the American dream at their leisure... and with our approval.

No, you cannot win this game, nor should you like it.

_____________________________

"For there is no folly of the beast of the earth which is not infinitely outdone by the madness of men." Herman Melville - Moby Dick

I'm wearing my chicken suit and humming La Marseillaise.

(in reply to Marini)
Profile   Post #: 35
RE: President Obama prepared to go it alone on Thursday - 11/20/2014 8:42:49 PM   
Marini


Posts: 3629
Joined: 2/14/2010
Status: offline 		You are attempting to put words in my mouth.
What I have said is clear.
Trying to alter what I never said, shows who you are.
Clearly

< Message edited by Marini -- 11/20/2014 8:43:59 PM >

_____________________________

As always, To EACH their Own.
"And as we let our own light shine, we unconsciously give other people permission to do the same. "
Nelson Mandela
Life-long Democrat, not happy at all with Democratic Party.
NOT a Republican/Moderate and free agent

(in reply to Gauge)
Profile   Post #: 36
RE: President Obama prepared to go it alone on Thursday - 11/20/2014 8:47:25 PM   
Gauge


Posts: 5689
Joined: 6/17/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Marini

You are attempting to put words in my mouth.
What I have said is clear.
Trying to alter what I never said, shows who you are.
Clearly


I don't have to alter your words. Not at all. You made my point for me.

What shows who I am is that I have a good understanding of a subject and an even better understanding of political ploys to divert attention from the real problems. Ask around, I am one of the more level headed posters down here.



_____________________________

"For there is no folly of the beast of the earth which is not infinitely outdone by the madness of men." Herman Melville - Moby Dick

I'm wearing my chicken suit and humming La Marseillaise.

(in reply to Marini)
Profile   Post #: 37
RE: President Obama prepared to go it alone on Thursday - 11/20/2014 8:48:49 PM   
Marini


Posts: 3629
Joined: 2/14/2010
Status: offline 		I am hardly new here.
I have been here 10 years.
I know how many are down here.
I put on my big girl panties, and keep it moving.
Take care
Peace

< Message edited by Marini -- 11/20/2014 8:55:11 PM >

_____________________________

As always, To EACH their Own.
"And as we let our own light shine, we unconsciously give other people permission to do the same. "
Nelson Mandela
Life-long Democrat, not happy at all with Democratic Party.
NOT a Republican/Moderate and free agent

(in reply to Gauge)
Profile   Post #: 38
RE: President Obama prepared to go it alone on Thursday - 11/20/2014 8:53:34 PM   
Aylee


Posts: 24103
Joined: 10/14/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Gauge


quote:

ORIGINAL: Marini

sshhh Aylee, we are not supposed to be that smart.
Our economy is stagnant, and hardly vibrant, how the hell is all of this sustainable?

Does anyone care about the millions of citizens already here, that are going hungry? homeless? unable to make ends meet?/ or the decimation of a large portion of the struggling middle class?

Does anyone care about the citizens that have been unable to gain employment or are underemployed?
I would just like to see a LITTLE of this concern/or maybe some of it put into helping the millions that are already here and struggling like hell.

Seriously, does anyone care about the millions already here that are not doing well at all?


They didn't care before, why the fuck should anyone start now? If you think that immigration caused this, you don't understand the problem.


If you like your lawn care worker, you can keep your lawn care worker! YAY!

_____________________________

Ceterum censeo Carthaginem esse delendam

I don’t always wgah’nagl fhtagn. But when I do, I ph’nglui mglw’nafh R’lyeh.

(in reply to Gauge)
Profile   Post #: 39
RE: President Obama prepared to go it alone on Thursday - 11/20/2014 9:15:17 PM   
BamaD


Posts: 20687
Joined: 2/27/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Gauge


quote:

ORIGINAL: Marini

If millions are coming here to work, and surely not coming to get entitlement programs, than discussing the employment situation and economic conditions of the existing citizenry is indeed "relevant".


Oh. I thought you said immigration didn't cause that. My mistake.

Illegals didn't cause the problem, but encouraging more to come will make it worse.

_____________________________

Government ranges from a necessary evil to an intolerable one. Thomas Paine

People don't believe they can defend themselves because they have guns, they have guns because they believe they can defend themselves.

(in reply to Gauge)
Profile   Post #: 40
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