quote:

Gauge post 29: They didn't care before, why the fuck should anyone start now?
Gauge post 35: While I do agree that the plight of the middle class is dire, it was never caused by immigration. That it is warranted in a discussion in parallel with immigration and it suddenly makes it relevant by association, is a typical ploy used by those that would rather point fingers at the dirty foreign [peasants] instead of at those that are raping the American dream at their leisure... and with our approval.

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ORIGINAL: DomKen

quote:

ORIGINAL: DesideriScuri

quote:

ORIGINAL: DomKen

quote:

ORIGINAL: truckinslave
Your post assumes that all possible executive actions (on immigration) are equal, or at least equally legal.
Which is, of course, asinine.

I'd love to hear how what the President proposes tonight is less legal than what Reagan or either Bush did by executive order. Precisely in detail.

What EO did Bush 41 sign about immigration?
Did you not read my earlier post that showed that Reagan, Bush 43, AND Clinton, all wrote EO's that were specifically mentioned as being allowed, in US Code?
Unless Obama is going to follow suit and award qualification to undocumented immigrants who have fought in some military conflict that hasn't yet been mentioned in an EO, his actions won't be the same as Reagan, Bush 43, and Clinton.
Obviously, we'll have to wait and see what the President is considering, but when you compare legality of two actions, those actions should be similar in more than just a broad category, like "immigration-related."

Those are not the only EO's on immigration issued by Reagan and the Bush's. Do better research.

• A Conservative interpretation of the US Constitution
  
• Personal Responsibility
  
• Help for the truly needy
  
• Limited Government
  
• Consumption Tax (non-profit charities and food exempt)
  

quote:

ORIGINAL: Extravagasm

One more thing about the title of this thread and the title of most news coverage.

President Obama is not going it alone on immigration. A substantial chunk or Americans agree. Some have even said a majority, who knows. Remember the reason no immigration bill has come out of congress is Not because there's no support. Powerful committee leaders held the bill in committee... IE would not even let the bills come to vote. American system . . .

Perhaps the next Congress intends to spend two years fighting the President, over the Care Act and over Immigration, in each case without an alternative bill of their own. Couldn't even win a junior high debate that way. And from red states which don't even now, contain anywhere sufficient electors to confirm a president. American system . . .

quote:

ORIGINAL: DesideriScuri

quote:

ORIGINAL: DomKen

quote:

ORIGINAL: DesideriScuri

quote:

ORIGINAL: DomKen

quote:

ORIGINAL: truckinslave
Your post assumes that all possible executive actions (on immigration) are equal, or at least equally legal.
Which is, of course, asinine.

I'd love to hear how what the President proposes tonight is less legal than what Reagan or either Bush did by executive order. Precisely in detail.

What EO did Bush 41 sign about immigration?
Did you not read my earlier post that showed that Reagan, Bush 43, AND Clinton, all wrote EO's that were specifically mentioned as being allowed, in US Code?
Unless Obama is going to follow suit and award qualification to undocumented immigrants who have fought in some military conflict that hasn't yet been mentioned in an EO, his actions won't be the same as Reagan, Bush 43, and Clinton.
Obviously, we'll have to wait and see what the President is considering, but when you compare legality of two actions, those actions should be similar in more than just a broad category, like "immigration-related."

Those are not the only EO's on immigration issued by Reagan and the Bush's. Do better research.

Proof?

quote:

ORIGINAL: DomKen

quote:

ORIGINAL: DesideriScuri

quote:

ORIGINAL: DomKen
Those are not the only EO's on immigration issued by Reagan and the Bush's. Do better research.

Proof?

1989 Bush by EO deferred deportation of  all Chinese students.
1990 Bush by EO deferred deportation of the spouses and children of people who previously received amnesty.
1992 Bush by EO deferred deportation of 190,000 El Salvadorans.
2005 W by EO deferred deportation of students affected by Katrina.
2007 W by EO deferred deportation of 3,600 Liberians.
http://www.pensitoreview.com/2014/11/17/impeachable-18-immigration-executive-orders-by-republican-presidents/

• A Conservative interpretation of the US Constitution
  
• Personal Responsibility
  
• Help for the truly needy
  
• Limited Government
  
• Consumption Tax (non-profit charities and food exempt)
  

quote:

ORIGINAL: DesideriScuri

quote:

ORIGINAL: DomKen

quote:

ORIGINAL: DesideriScuri

quote:

ORIGINAL: DomKen
Those are not the only EO's on immigration issued by Reagan and the Bush's. Do better research.

Proof?

1989 Bush by EO deferred deportation of  all Chinese students.
1990 Bush by EO deferred deportation of the spouses and children of people who previously received amnesty.
1992 Bush by EO deferred deportation of 190,000 El Salvadorans.
2005 W by EO deferred deportation of students affected by Katrina.
2007 W by EO deferred deportation of 3,600 Liberians.
http://www.pensitoreview.com/2014/11/17/impeachable-18-immigration-executive-orders-by-republican-presidents/

No links?

Nothing on Reagan?

The article mentions something about Reagan acting by EO in 1981, but I couldn't figure out which one it was. Feel free to point it out, though.

http://www.archives.gov/federal-register/executive-orders/1981-reagan.html

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ORIGINAL: Marini

I find this article interesting, "Legal yet poor".
I think it gets to a point, that one RARELY hears.

Creating amnesty WITHOUT creating more jobs, is a recipe for failure.
Daily Beast-- Legal yet poor


Does it really take a rocket scientist to understand this concept?

quote:

ORIGINAL: Extravagasm

The reason I added foreign [peasants] is because the groups who rape the American dream are often foreigners, but rich foreigners instead of peasants: Rupert Murdoch family, Rothschilds, Bilderbergs, Vereide/Coe/Foth family, world Zionists, World Bank, Trilateral Commission, etc. These problem sources rarely immigrate here, nor wish to. US already does their bidding (as you say correctly, with the US caucasian English-advocating voters egging them on).
Comparing aggravating effect of working immigrants, to say the effect of wall street meltdown or to the effect of borrowing away social security trust funds for endless war policy appropriation... comparing these things as aggravators of economic malaise on non-rich Americans... is out of range. It is the very definition of xenophobia. Bring the dirty Chinese in to lay decades of priceless 19th century western railroads through rock, then kick them out since they lack citizenship. Priceless.

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ORIGINAL: DomKen

quote:

ORIGINAL: DesideriScuri

quote:

ORIGINAL: DomKen

quote:

ORIGINAL: DesideriScuri

quote:

ORIGINAL: DomKen
Those are not the only EO's on immigration issued by Reagan and the Bush's. Do better research.

Proof?

1989 Bush by EO deferred deportation of  all Chinese students.
1990 Bush by EO deferred deportation of the spouses and children of people who previously received amnesty.
1992 Bush by EO deferred deportation of 190,000 El Salvadorans.
2005 W by EO deferred deportation of students affected by Katrina.
2007 W by EO deferred deportation of 3,600 Liberians.
http://www.pensitoreview.com/2014/11/17/impeachable-18-immigration-executive-orders-by-republican-presidents/

No links?
Nothing on Reagan?
The article mentions something about Reagan acting by EO in 1981, but I couldn't figure out which one it was. Feel free to point it out, though.
http://www.archives.gov/federal-register/executive-orders/1981-reagan.html

You can look up each one easily enough.  For instance the first one I listed
http://www.presidency.ucsb.edu/ws/index.php?pid=23556

• A Conservative interpretation of the US Constitution
  
• Personal Responsibility
  
• Help for the truly needy
  
• Limited Government
  
• Consumption Tax (non-profit charities and food exempt)
  

quote:

ORIGINAL: DesideriScuri

quote:

ORIGINAL: DomKen

quote:

ORIGINAL: DesideriScuri

quote:

ORIGINAL: DomKen

quote:

ORIGINAL: DesideriScuri

quote:

ORIGINAL: DomKen
Those are not the only EO's on immigration issued by Reagan and the Bush's. Do better research.

Proof?

1989 Bush by EO deferred deportation of  all Chinese students.
1990 Bush by EO deferred deportation of the spouses and children of people who previously received amnesty.
1992 Bush by EO deferred deportation of 190,000 El Salvadorans.
2005 W by EO deferred deportation of students affected by Katrina.
2007 W by EO deferred deportation of 3,600 Liberians.
http://www.pensitoreview.com/2014/11/17/impeachable-18-immigration-executive-orders-by-republican-presidents/

No links?
Nothing on Reagan?
The article mentions something about Reagan acting by EO in 1981, but I couldn't figure out which one it was. Feel free to point it out, though.
http://www.archives.gov/federal-register/executive-orders/1981-reagan.html

You can look up each one easily enough.  For instance the first one I listed
http://www.presidency.ucsb.edu/ws/index.php?pid=23556

Thanks for that. I now know that I can simply let you look things up yourself. Awesome!

The Bush EO you did link to... it shielded Chinese students from deportation. True enough, but the context matters, doesn't it? The EO was signed in April of 1990, and applied to those students (and their dependents) who were in the US "on or after June 5th 1989," the day after Tienanmen Square, until January 1, 1994.

When was the "Tienanmen Square" event for the current illegal immigrants? Do you not also notice that those Chinese nationals had legal presence initially? That is not necessarily the case for the current illegal immigrants in the US, is it?

Thus, definitely NOT the same as President George HW Bush's EO.

quote:

ORIGINAL: DomKen

quote:

ORIGINAL: Marini

I find this article interesting, "Legal yet poor".
I think it gets to a point, that one RARELY hears.

Creating amnesty WITHOUT creating more jobs, is a recipe for failure.
Daily Beast-- Legal yet poor


Does it really take a rocket scientist to understand this concept?

Apparently it does.

The undocumented find a way to make a living today without most of the protections of our system while living inside our nation. Predatory employers pay them below minimum wage and otherwise mistreat them because they have no recourse. Now they will have legal status and they will be able to report this sort of thing. So right there for many their standard of living will rise and that will stimulate the rest of the economy.

As they achieve legal status they will enter the legal housing market and will insure their vehicles which are obvious benefits to society as a whole.

As a matter of fact numerous studies have shown that the President's action will result in a lot of economic growth for the US and will directly improve the lot of the formerly illegals.

quote:

ORIGINAL: thishereboi

quote:

ORIGINAL: DomKen

quote:

ORIGINAL: Marini

I find this article interesting, "Legal yet poor".
I think it gets to a point, that one RARELY hears.

Creating amnesty WITHOUT creating more jobs, is a recipe for failure.
Daily Beast-- Legal yet poor


Does it really take a rocket scientist to understand this concept?

Apparently it does.

The undocumented find a way to make a living today without most of the protections of our system while living inside our nation. Predatory employers pay them below minimum wage and otherwise mistreat them because they have no recourse. Now they will have legal status and they will be able to report this sort of thing. So right there for many their standard of living will rise and that will stimulate the rest of the economy.

As they achieve legal status they will enter the legal housing market and will insure their vehicles which are obvious benefits to society as a whole.

As a matter of fact numerous studies have shown that the President's action will result in a lot of economic growth for the US and will directly improve the lot of the formerly illegals.

while I agree that it will improve their lives I fail to see how making the employers pay fair wages is going to increase jobs or the economy. In fact if I had to guess I would say most of the illegals will find better jobs and the companies will find new illegals to exploit. Which means more competition for the jobs that are already here and more people collecting unemployment in the end.

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ORIGINAL: DomKen
They were in the country illegally the second their visas expired correct? The same is true of many of todays illegals. Nothing is different except your bigotry and your dislike of the President issuing the EO.

• A Conservative interpretation of the US Constitution
  
• Personal Responsibility
  
• Help for the truly needy
  
• Limited Government
  
• Consumption Tax (non-profit charities and food exempt)
  

quote:

ORIGINAL: Extravagasm

. . . .