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[Poll]

The Grand Jury has decided in Ferguson


Officer Wilson WILL be charged with a crime
  2% (1)
Officer Wilson will NOT be charged with a crime
  38% (14)
I could not care less
  11% (4)
Who is officer Wilson
  16% (6)
Regardless of the decision Wilson is guilty
  19% (7)
Regardless of the decision Wilson is innocent
  11% (4)


Total Votes : 36
(last vote on : 12/8/2014 3:18:50 AM)
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RE: The Grand Jury has decided in Ferguson - 12/4/2014 5:21:27 PM   
BamaD


Posts: 20687
Joined: 2/27/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: DomKen

quote:

ORIGINAL: BamaD


quote:

ORIGINAL: DomKen

quote:

ORIGINAL: kdsub

But cloudboy he knew there was no law that he could bring charges on... so he did the next best thing... he figured a way to make ALL the evidence available to the public... very unusual but an attempt to be as transparent as possible.

Butch

Laws he could have brought charges on:
2nd degree murder (and a bunch of lesser included charges)
use of excessive force by a LEO
failure to file a police report

But he chose not to instruct the grand jury about any of those potential charges or any charges at all so how where they supposed to vote out an indictment even if they wanted to?

except for the trivial matter that the evidence didn't support any of these

There was more than probable cause for all of them. If you don't understand what probable cause means perhaps you should shut the fuck up.

If you think that them not seeing what you want them to means they ignored probable cause maybe it is you who should follow Lincoln's admonition that it is better to be silent and be thought a fool than to speak and remove all doubt.

_____________________________

Government ranges from a necessary evil to an intolerable one. Thomas Paine

People don't believe they can defend themselves because they have guns, they have guns because they believe they can defend themselves.

(in reply to DomKen)
Profile   Post #: 261
RE: The Grand Jury has decided in Ferguson - 12/4/2014 5:22:57 PM   
BamaD


Posts: 20687
Joined: 2/27/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: BitYakin

quote:

ORIGINAL: DomKen

quote:

ORIGINAL: BamaD


quote:

ORIGINAL: DomKen

quote:

ORIGINAL: kdsub

But cloudboy he knew there was no law that he could bring charges on... so he did the next best thing... he figured a way to make ALL the evidence available to the public... very unusual but an attempt to be as transparent as possible.

Butch

Laws he could have brought charges on:
2nd degree murder (and a bunch of lesser included charges)
use of excessive force by a LEO
failure to file a police report

But he chose not to instruct the grand jury about any of those potential charges or any charges at all so how where they supposed to vote out an indictment even if they wanted to?

except for the trivial matter that the evidence didn't support any of these

There was more than probable cause for all of them. If you don't understand what probable cause means perhaps you should shut the fuck up.


WOW what a surprise DK didn't agree with someone so they should SHUT THE FUCK UP!

HAHAHAH

just so we all know...


Probable Cause
Apparent facts discovered through logical inquiry that would lead a reasonably intelligent and prudent person to believe that an accused person has committed a crime, thereby warranting his or her prosecution


so according to DK the jurors were NOT reasonably intelligent!


They couldn't be, they disagree with him.

_____________________________

Government ranges from a necessary evil to an intolerable one. Thomas Paine

People don't believe they can defend themselves because they have guns, they have guns because they believe they can defend themselves.

(in reply to BitYakin)
Profile   Post #: 262
RE: The Grand Jury has decided in Ferguson - 12/4/2014 5:52:31 PM   
cloudboy


Posts: 7306
Joined: 12/14/2005
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At least I'm not relying on the Washington Times for information.

Your translation is so far off it is hard to bother with it.

A prosecutor is not interested in being fair, he's interested in prosecuting. Defense lawyers, trials, and pre-trial procedures insure "fairness." For instance, a prosecutor does not introduce evidence of a possible "unlawful search" when he seeks to prosecute someone for a crime. No, he goes for the throat.

In this case the prosecutor simply "didn't prosecute," and that is unusual for a grand jury proceeding.

(in reply to BitYakin)
Profile   Post #: 263
RE: The Grand Jury has decided in Ferguson - 12/4/2014 6:06:38 PM   
BitYakin


Posts: 882
Joined: 10/15/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: cloudboy


At least I'm not relying on the Washington Times for information.

Your translation is so far off it is hard to bother with it.

A prosecutor is not interested in being fair, he's interested in prosecuting. Defense lawyers, trials, and pre-trial procedures insure "fairness." For instance, a prosecutor does not introduce evidence of a possible "unlawful search" when he seeks to prosecute someone for a crime. No, he goes for the throat.

In this case the prosecutor simply "didn't prosecute," and that is unusual for a grand jury proceeding.



do quotes from legal scholars change meaning depending on what newspaper they are printed in?

or are you saying they were misquoted?

no a prosecutor is interested in WINNING CASES, getting an indictment on a case he KNOWS he cannot win, its just a waste of taxpayer money...

as for my translation, so far I haven't heard a single quote from any lawyer, judge or law professor that has said anything other than unusual but as FAIR as I have ever seen...

so I can only conclude your objection is to the FAIRNESS of it

what exactly IS your objection then???

that it wasn't a witch hunt?

that it was LEGAL but unusual?

do tell what is your objection???

< Message edited by BitYakin -- 12/4/2014 6:09:19 PM >

_____________________________

"If you can't explain it simply, you don't understand it well enough." - Albert Einstein

(in reply to cloudboy)
Profile   Post #: 264
RE: The Grand Jury has decided in Ferguson - 12/4/2014 6:43:59 PM   
BamaD


Posts: 20687
Joined: 2/27/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: BitYakin

quote:

ORIGINAL: cloudboy


At least I'm not relying on the Washington Times for information.

Your translation is so far off it is hard to bother with it.

A prosecutor is not interested in being fair, he's interested in prosecuting. Defense lawyers, trials, and pre-trial procedures insure "fairness." For instance, a prosecutor does not introduce evidence of a possible "unlawful search" when he seeks to prosecute someone for a crime. No, he goes for the throat.

In this case the prosecutor simply "didn't prosecute," and that is unusual for a grand jury proceeding.



do quotes from legal scholars change meaning depending on what newspaper they are printed in?

or are you saying they were misquoted?

no a prosecutor is interested in WINNING CASES, getting an indictment on a case he KNOWS he cannot win, its just a waste of taxpayer money...

as for my translation, so far I haven't heard a single quote from any lawyer, judge or law professor that has said anything other than unusual but as FAIR as I have ever seen...

so I can only conclude your objection is to the FAIRNESS of it

what exactly IS your objection then???

that it wasn't a witch hunt?

that it was LEGAL but unusual?

do tell what is your objection???

His objection is that Wilson isn't hanging from a cross on top of the Arch.

_____________________________

Government ranges from a necessary evil to an intolerable one. Thomas Paine

People don't believe they can defend themselves because they have guns, they have guns because they believe they can defend themselves.

(in reply to BitYakin)
Profile   Post #: 265
RE: The Grand Jury has decided in Ferguson - 12/4/2014 8:33:54 PM   
cloudboy


Posts: 7306
Joined: 12/14/2005
Status: offline 		The Washington Times is a biased, right-wing rag owned by religious zealouts.

Google "List of Pulitzer Prizes awarded to washington times" and let me know what you find.

See also: http://rationalwiki.org/wiki/The_Washington_Times

< Message edited by cloudboy -- 12/4/2014 8:35:23 PM >

(in reply to BitYakin)
Profile   Post #: 266
RE: The Grand Jury has decided in Ferguson - 12/5/2014 3:00:03 AM   
DomKen


Posts: 19457
Joined: 7/4/2004
From: Chicago, IL
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: BamaD


quote:

ORIGINAL: DomKen

quote:

ORIGINAL: BamaD


quote:

ORIGINAL: DomKen

quote:

ORIGINAL: kdsub

But cloudboy he knew there was no law that he could bring charges on... so he did the next best thing... he figured a way to make ALL the evidence available to the public... very unusual but an attempt to be as transparent as possible.

Butch

Laws he could have brought charges on:
2nd degree murder (and a bunch of lesser included charges)
use of excessive force by a LEO
failure to file a police report

But he chose not to instruct the grand jury about any of those potential charges or any charges at all so how where they supposed to vote out an indictment even if they wanted to?

except for the trivial matter that the evidence didn't support any of these

There was more than probable cause for all of them. If you don't understand what probable cause means perhaps you should shut the fuck up.

If you think that them not seeing what you want them to means they ignored probable cause maybe it is you who should follow Lincoln's admonition that it is better to be silent and be thought a fool than to speak and remove all doubt.

Do you really not know how easy it is reach the level of probable cause in a criminal case?

Why don't you show us all how there wasn't probable cause that Wilson didn't commit 2nd degree murder then?

The standard is simply whether it is more likely than not that Wilson did kill Brown. Is that true? Then there is probable cause to indict.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Probable_cause#United_States

(in reply to BamaD)
Profile   Post #: 267
RE: The Grand Jury has decided in Ferguson - 12/5/2014 4:20:02 AM   
Sanity


Posts: 22039
Joined: 6/14/2006
From: Nampa, Idaho USA
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: cloudboy

The Washington Times is a biased, right-wing rag owned by religious zealouts.

Google "List of Pulitzer Prizes awarded to washington times" and let me know what you find.

See also: http://rationalwiki.org/wiki/The_Washington_Times


This, from the boy who quotes Huffpo and KOS

_____________________________

Inside Every Liberal Is A Totalitarian Screaming To Get Out

(in reply to cloudboy)
Profile   Post #: 268
RE: The Grand Jury has decided in Ferguson - 12/5/2014 4:52:22 AM   
PeonForHer


Posts: 19612
Joined: 9/27/2008
Status: offline
quote:

See also: http://rationalwiki.org/wiki/The_Washington_Times
quote:



Thanks for that link. Hilarious! It even makes our own Daily Mail look balanced by comparison!

_____________________________

http://www.domme-chronicles.com


(in reply to cloudboy)
Profile   Post #: 269
RE: The Grand Jury has decided in Ferguson - 12/5/2014 8:17:26 AM   
BamaD


Posts: 20687
Joined: 2/27/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: DomKen

quote:

ORIGINAL: BamaD


quote:

ORIGINAL: DomKen

quote:

ORIGINAL: BamaD


quote:

ORIGINAL: DomKen

quote:

ORIGINAL: kdsub

But cloudboy he knew there was no law that he could bring charges on... so he did the next best thing... he figured a way to make ALL the evidence available to the public... very unusual but an attempt to be as transparent as possible.

Butch

Laws he could have brought charges on:
2nd degree murder (and a bunch of lesser included charges)
use of excessive force by a LEO
failure to file a police report

But he chose not to instruct the grand jury about any of those potential charges or any charges at all so how where they supposed to vote out an indictment even if they wanted to?

except for the trivial matter that the evidence didn't support any of these

There was more than probable cause for all of them. If you don't understand what probable cause means perhaps you should shut the fuck up.

If you think that them not seeing what you want them to means they ignored probable cause maybe it is you who should follow Lincoln's admonition that it is better to be silent and be thought a fool than to speak and remove all doubt.

Do you really not know how easy it is reach the level of probable cause in a criminal case?

Why don't you show us all how there wasn't probable cause that Wilson didn't commit 2nd degree murder then?

The standard is simply whether it is more likely than not that Wilson did kill Brown. Is that true? Then there is probable cause to indict.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Probable_cause#United_States

Simple, the evidence, even testimony by blacks, demonstrated that it was not murder, there simply was no case. I see you have chosen to ignore Lincoln's advise.

_____________________________

Government ranges from a necessary evil to an intolerable one. Thomas Paine

People don't believe they can defend themselves because they have guns, they have guns because they believe they can defend themselves.

(in reply to DomKen)
Profile   Post #: 270
RE: The Grand Jury has decided in Ferguson - 12/5/2014 8:21:44 AM   
BamaD


Posts: 20687
Joined: 2/27/2005
Status: offline 		The standard is simply whether it is more likely than not that Wilson did kill Brown. Is that true? Then there is probable cause to indict.

Come on DK you know that they have to prove it is likely that he unjustifiably killed Brown. By your standard the cop who shot the couple in Vegas should be on trial because he did kill them.

_____________________________

Government ranges from a necessary evil to an intolerable one. Thomas Paine

People don't believe they can defend themselves because they have guns, they have guns because they believe they can defend themselves.

(in reply to DomKen)
Profile   Post #: 271
RE: The Grand Jury has decided in Ferguson - 12/5/2014 8:56:31 AM   
Musicmystery


Posts: 30259
Joined: 3/14/2005
Status: offline 		That's not the standard -- that would be trying the case in the grand jury.

The question is whether there's a good case by the prosecution. Here, the prosecution made a mess of it.

(in reply to BamaD)
Profile   Post #: 272
RE: The Grand Jury has decided in Ferguson - 12/5/2014 9:01:22 AM   
cloudboy


Posts: 7306
Joined: 12/14/2005
Status: offline 		Don't read or quote either. I don't want biased information or spin. I want facts and analysis and in-depth reporting.

< Message edited by cloudboy -- 12/5/2014 9:02:37 AM >

(in reply to Sanity)
Profile   Post #: 273
RE: The Grand Jury has decided in Ferguson - 12/5/2014 3:44:04 PM   
DomKen


Posts: 19457
Joined: 7/4/2004
From: Chicago, IL
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: BamaD

The standard is simply whether it is more likely than not that Wilson did kill Brown. Is that true? Then there is probable cause to indict.

Come on DK you know that they have to prove it is likely that he unjustifiably killed Brown. By your standard the cop who shot the couple in Vegas should be on trial because he did kill them.

Nope. The probable cause standard is a very low hurdle. The old saw about a prosecutor being able to indict a ham sandwich exists for a reason.

In this case there was no doubt that Wilson was the killer so an indictment should have been a forgone conclusion. Wilson would have been free to assert his self defense claim as an affirmative defense at trial where it would be subject to aggressive cross examination and the full rules of evidence.

(in reply to BamaD)
Profile   Post #: 274
RE: The Grand Jury has decided in Ferguson - 12/5/2014 3:50:08 PM   
DomKen


Posts: 19457
Joined: 7/4/2004
From: Chicago, IL
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: PeonForHer

quote:

See also: http://rationalwiki.org/wiki/The_Washington_Times


Thanks for that link. Hilarious! It even makes our own Daily Mail look balanced by comparison!

When I was stationed in D.C. in the latter part of Raygun Ronnie's tenure the DoD had decided that the Washington Post was too much of a liberal rag to allow on base and had replaced it with the Times in all the vending machines. So every morning when I came out of my BEQ I'd pass a newspaper box and see the headlines. This was in the middle of Iran-Contra and the rest of the news was covering little else but it never appeared above the fold in the Times. It was like they were reporting the news from another planet.

(in reply to PeonForHer)
Profile   Post #: 275
RE: The Grand Jury has decided in Ferguson - 12/5/2014 3:51:40 PM   
Sanity


Posts: 22039
Joined: 6/14/2006
From: Nampa, Idaho USA
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: cloudboy

Don't read or quote either. I don't want biased information or spin. I want facts and analysis and in-depth reporting.


Werent you quoting the dirt worshipers at Mother Jones the other day, as well

_____________________________

Inside Every Liberal Is A Totalitarian Screaming To Get Out

(in reply to cloudboy)
Profile   Post #: 276
RE: The Grand Jury has decided in Ferguson - 12/5/2014 8:43:33 PM   
dcnovice


Posts: 37282
Joined: 8/2/2006
Status: offline
quote:

dirt worshipers

This term was unfamiliar to me, so I Googled it. Found two interesting definitions at Urban Dictionary:

a racial slur towards native americans because they worship nature life.

Dale(native american) is a dirt worshipper and sun god worshipper.

* * *

Derogatory name for someone who practices any of a number of Pagan/Wiccan/Druidic faiths. Named because these religeons usually prescribe a close relationship with nature. Many followers also exhibit strong opinions regarding the environment due to their beliefs.

Looks like the dirt worshipers finally got the sawmill closed.


_____________________________

No matter how cynical you become,
it's never enough to keep up.

JANE WAGNER, THE SEARCH FOR SIGNS OF
INTELLIGENT LIFE IN THE UNIVERSE

(in reply to Sanity)
Profile   Post #: 277
RE: The Grand Jury has decided in Ferguson - 12/5/2014 8:47:22 PM   
BamaD


Posts: 20687
Joined: 2/27/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: DomKen

quote:

ORIGINAL: BamaD

The standard is simply whether it is more likely than not that Wilson did kill Brown. Is that true? Then there is probable cause to indict.

Come on DK you know that they have to prove it is likely that he unjustifiably killed Brown. By your standard the cop who shot the couple in Vegas should be on trial because he did kill them.

Nope. The probable cause standard is a very low hurdle. The old saw about a prosecutor being able to indict a ham sandwich exists for a reason.

In this case there was no doubt that Wilson was the killer so an indictment should have been a forgone conclusion. Wilson would have been free to assert his self defense claim as an affirmative defense at trial where it would be subject to aggressive cross examination and the full rules of evidence.

It isn't did he likely kill Brown it is did he likely killed Brown illegally. I understand that you can't see the distinction, but it is a big one.

< Message edited by BamaD -- 12/5/2014 9:26:58 PM >

_____________________________

Government ranges from a necessary evil to an intolerable one. Thomas Paine

People don't believe they can defend themselves because they have guns, they have guns because they believe they can defend themselves.

(in reply to DomKen)
Profile   Post #: 278
RE: The Grand Jury has decided in Ferguson - 12/5/2014 11:09:48 PM   
BitYakin


Posts: 882
Joined: 10/15/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: cloudboy

The Washington Times is a biased, right-wing rag owned by religious zealouts.

Google "List of Pulitzer Prizes awarded to washington times" and let me know what you find.

See also: http://rationalwiki.org/wiki/The_Washington_Times



sooo you are saying those lawyers and professors do not exist?
or you are saying the newspaper changed their quotes to something other than what they actually said?

ok how bout this, maybe you can find some article where a law professional says what happened was either illegal or unfair?

I don't care if it came out in the mickey mouse club comic book, if the people exist and said what they said, then where its reported doesn't make it any less true...



_____________________________

"If you can't explain it simply, you don't understand it well enough." - Albert Einstein

(in reply to cloudboy)
Profile   Post #: 279
RE: The Grand Jury has decided in Ferguson - 12/5/2014 11:21:07 PM   
BitYakin


Posts: 882
Joined: 10/15/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: cloudboy

The Washington Times is a biased, right-wing rag owned by religious zealouts.

Google "List of Pulitzer Prizes awarded to washington times" and let me know what you find.

See also: http://rationalwiki.org/wiki/The_Washington_Times


I also noticed you had no response to well ANYTHING I said, except to say how BAD that newspaper is

maybe you could answer ONE of the 1/2 dozen or so questions I asked?

you know like how a prosecutor wants to win cases not just throw LOSING cases before the courts

maybe you could comment on THAT?

maybe you could answer that last question?

ya know the one, "what is your objection?"

if it wasn't LEGAL surely some lawyer by now would have pointed that out, don't ya think?

if it wasn't FAIR, maybe just ONE law professional might have expressed that opinion, JUST ONE?

could you point us to a SINGLE ARTICLE anywhere, ya know from one of your more REPUTABLE SOURCES, that points out something unfair or illegal?

you say my source SUCKS, OK show us your source...


_____________________________

"If you can't explain it simply, you don't understand it well enough." - Albert Einstein

(in reply to cloudboy)
Profile   Post #: 280
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