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RE: Topping From The Bottom, Asshole-ing from the Sidel... - 12/1/2014 12:25:34 PM

NookieNotes

Posts: 1720
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quote:

ORIGINAL: SweetForDaddy

I don't agree with that at all. I would only consent to TRY something though, if that something was new to the relationship. And I would make damn sure that it was agreed if I couldn't handle it that it would stop right then, not when the next negotiation took place. By the time the next negotiation took place the damage may have been done. I'm totally wary of trying new things.

It is not leading to stop a scene that is past your limits.

I'm pretty sure that's not what he meant.

quote:

ORIGINAL: GoddessManko

Precisely, on other threads the advice to "teach that defiant sub a lesson or you're not a real Domme" was given. There is no real "bottom" at this point because of incompatibility, but they do self identify as "submissive". Partly why my position is generalized and not specific. My perspective is that the Domme would be relinquishing power by doing just that, especially for someone they just met and not on their own terms.

Yes, I agree that's true.

*smiles*

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RE: Topping From The Bottom, Asshole-ing from the Sidel... - 12/1/2014 12:34:36 PM

littleladybug

Posts: 1082
Joined: 5/30/2013
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quote:

ORIGINAL: GoddessManko

Your dynamic to me, is pretty amazing. Because I prefer having a sub who enjoys being an individual and can keep up with me in conversation and banter. I don't think anyone wants a "mindless sub" for an actual relationship. That is a myth fed to subs for some asshole to green light their bs. The same way some subs use the same excuse for just fucking sucking as a submissive. Obviously you are a great sub because you found someone who accepts you entirely.

My "greatness" only comes in the ability to find someone who accepts me. In that respect, anyone can be great...

I've had my fair share of "lack of greatness"...in trying to make myself into something I am not to fit into someone else's view of "what is great". It's not a question of "being mindless", not at all. It's a question of turning my back as to who I am in order to fit someone else's mold.

quote:

ORIGINAL: GoddessManko

And that is the key. I have had subs develop a complex from me saying "you didn't pull out the chair, open the door for me". I have had to reprimand a vanilla man for this a total of zero times. These are just the basics in my mind so if a sub cannot handle criticism then, no.

Interesting example. Does that have *anything* to do with being a sub or not? Without getting into the idea of whether a man *should* be doing this... if someone is getting a "complex" from you saying this, doesn't that say something to you about compatibility?

quote:

ORIGINAL: GoddessManko

If you want to be a sub but cannot follow directions, it would indicate to me it's not going to work. If you are a constant source of problems and headaches vs relief and comfort, not gonna work. Just some common sense things that help guide me along.

And this, IMO, goes both ways. I think we fundamentally agree on this.

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Post #: 82

RE: Topping From The Bottom, Asshole-ing from the Sidel... - 12/1/2014 12:41:21 PM

CreativeDominant

Posts: 11032
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quote:

ORIGINAL: SweetForDaddy

quote:

ORIGINAL: CreativeDominant

Sometimes it is just a matter of, as E.T. put it so succinctly, they can only lead if you follow and once you consent to follow, you forfeit all rights to bitch. I would add, until the next discussion/negotiation takes place.

I don't agree with that at all. I would only consent to TRY something though, if that something was new to the relationship. And I would make damn sure that it was agreed if I couldn't handle it that it would stop right then, not when the next negotiation took place. By the time the next negotiation took place the damage may have been done. I'm totally wary of trying new things.

Understandable...if you ignore everything I wrote before that.

BUT...BEFORE I stated the above, I stated that there was discussion and negotiation of a thorough nature before consent so that nothing that comes up after consent is given is a surprise.

I ALSO stated that a big problem comes in when the dominant goes off the agreed-upon pages. Perhaps I should have added in "without discussion first".

If I hadn't stated all of the above before I stated the part you quoted, I'd agree with you. And, to go further, if there are dominants who don't discuss and negotiate and make sure that there's a clear understanding of what's to take place or dominants who go off the page without discussion...especially with a new partner...then the submissive has not only the right but the obligation to speak up.

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RE: Topping From The Bottom, Asshole-ing from the Sidel... - 12/1/2014 12:42:00 PM

GoddessManko

Posts: 2257
Joined: 3/6/2013
From: Dante's Inferno
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quote:

ORIGINAL: ExiledTyrant

~FR

Okay, this is taking a wrong turn. Negotiations are negotiations. The topic is TFTB.

If your bottom is saying, "Hey! Fucker, I've been mauled better by miniature house pets." He/she isn't TFTB, they are illustrating that you are fucking up... not meeting their needs. Nookies OP covered many details, but lets get down to what everyone is poking at:

At what point, after negotiation, is TFTB occurring in casual BDSM play?

At what point, after negotiation, is TFTB occurring in intimate BDSM play?

At what point, after negotiation, is TFTB occurring in a D/s dynamic?

If it happens post negotiation someone fucked up somewhere. Sometimes impatience gets the best of most subs and they show the "getting to know You" part or the "Your needs" part was really just a mere formality. Whether their tone changes and disposition or they start "fishing" for reasons to make things "uncomfortable", or in one subs's case where he agrees to every kink I tell him about only for me to stop scene 5 mins in and for it to literally ruin my entire evening. Seriously, KNOW your hard limits, everything sounds great in theory but it's like "try to imagine yourself in a room and this is actually happening" before green lighting a Dom and then crying foul later. This literally only happens between first and second time of meeting them so it doesn't take that long. I think sometimes they underestimate based on my "sweet" nature before I go full fledged D on them.
I don't understand why there would be issues months into a relationship so outside my jurisdiction I guess. SweetForDaddy is on the right path.

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Post #: 84

RE: Topping From The Bottom, Asshole-ing from the Sidel... - 12/1/2014 12:51:07 PM

GoddessManko

Posts: 2257
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quote:

ORIGINAL: littleladybug

quote:

ORIGINAL: GoddessManko

Your dynamic to me, is pretty amazing. Because I prefer having a sub who enjoys being an individual and can keep up with me in conversation and banter. I don't think anyone wants a "mindless sub" for an actual relationship. That is a myth fed to subs for some asshole to green light their bs. The same way some subs use the same excuse for just fucking sucking as a submissive. Obviously you are a great sub because you found someone who accepts you entirely.

My "greatness" only comes in the ability to find someone who accepts me. In that respect, anyone can be great...

I've had my fair share of "lack of greatness"...in trying to make myself into something I am not to fit into someone else's view of "what is great". It's not a question of "being mindless", not at all. It's a question of turning my back as to who I am in order to fit someone else's mold.

Ditto for me. Trying to fit someone else's view will never happen in a relationship. I value myself. I know what I offer to someone.

quote:

ORIGINAL: GoddessManko

And that is the key. I have had subs develop a complex from me saying "you didn't pull out the chair, open the door for me". I have had to reprimand a vanilla man for this a total of zero times. These are just the basics in my mind so if a sub cannot handle criticism then, no.

quote:

Interesting example. Does that have *anything* to do with being a sub or not? Without getting into the idea of whether a man *should* be doing this... if someone is getting a "complex" from you saying this, doesn't that say something to you about compatibility?

Yeah. For me you have to be a gent first. But it made me realize how spoiled I was with such gestures when they didn't happen. It was a bit of a "wow" moment. I was actually cordial in my critique too, usually "inside of the sidewalk" is the only gesture I need to request of a man.

quote:

And this, IMO, goes both ways. I think we fundamentally agree on this.

It seems so, compatibility seems to be it. I think topping from the bottom would rarely be an issue well into a relationship unless you get "comfortable", "lax" or "spoiled", and there is actual disrespect leveled at the Dom.

< Message edited by GoddessManko -- 12/1/2014 12:54:35 PM >

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RE: Topping From The Bottom, Asshole-ing from the Sidel... - 12/1/2014 12:54:55 PM

ExiledTyrant

Posts: 4547
Joined: 12/9/2013
From: Exiled
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quote:

ORIGINAL: GoddessManko

If it happens post negotiation someone fucked up somewhere. Sometimes impatience gets the best of most subs and they show the "getting to know You" part or the "Your needs" part was really just a mere formality. Whether their tone changes and disposition or they start "fishing" for reasons to make things "uncomfortable", or in one subs's case where he agrees to every kink I tell him about only for me to stop scene 5 mins in and for it to literally ruin my entire evening. Seriously, KNOW your hard limits, everything sounds great in theory but it's like "try to imagine yourself in a room and this is actually happening" before green lighting a Dom and then crying foul later. This literally only happens between first and second time of meeting them so it doesn't take that long. I think sometimes they underestimate based on my "sweet" nature before I go full fledged D on them.
I don't understand why there would be issues months into a relationship so outside my jurisdiction I guess. SweetForDaddy is on the right path.

This is why I always use a water-board in negotiations.

Me: Are you sure you're a no limits slave? *pours water*
her: Gurgle gurgle gurgle yes.
Me: Positive?
her: gurgle gurgle gurgle maybe.
Me: What is this maybe shit, BITCH! *pours copious amounts*
her: gurgle gurgle gurgle RED!!! FUCK NO!!! HARD LIMIT!! YOU FUCKING MONSTER!!!
Me: Now is not the time for foreplay.

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Post #: 86

RE: Topping From The Bottom, Asshole-ing from the Sidel... - 12/1/2014 1:01:18 PM

littleladybug

Posts: 1082
Joined: 5/30/2013
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quote:

ORIGINAL: GoddessManko

If it happens post negotiation someone fucked up somewhere.

The more I am around this life, the more I realize what I *don't* know. Speaking from a sub's perspective...I don't know what I don't know.

More than that, though, I know that my limits are ever-changing. What I did, or liked, 10 years, or 10 days, ago may not be applicable now.

Personally, I can only go with what I know, at this point in time. If my response is different, then it just *is*. This has happened with my man. What we "negotiated" and spoke about has changed. No deception involved...just things were different when they were "in play" than they were in my mind. What I enjoyed previously has caused me great issues when they were put into play. I never, EVER, would have thought so prior...but, it just is what it is at this point. Frankly, I know that he's disappointed in it, from a purely carnal perspective. But, he's gotten over that disappointment...knowing that *this* issue, for whatever reason, is something that's simply not going to be pressed through by him throwing out the "Dom" card, and whining that I hadn't disclosed it earlier.

quote:

ORIGINAL: GoddessManko

Seriously, KNOW your hard limits, everything sounds great in theory but it's like "try to imagine yourself in a room and this is actually happening" before green lighting a Dom and then crying foul later.

I can imagine all I want...nothing takes the place of actually experiencing it, at the time.

It doesn't matter whether it's the first time, or the 100th time...if I don't like something, I feel that is in my relationship's best interest to actually say something. If the person I am with can't handle that...well, they're not the right person for me. And, the fact that they consider themselves "Dominant" means squat in this vein.

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RE: Topping From The Bottom, Asshole-ing from the Sidel... - 12/1/2014 1:13:57 PM

NookieNotes

Posts: 1720
Joined: 11/10/2013
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quote:

ORIGINAL: ExiledTyrant

At what point, after negotiation, is TFTB occurring in casual BDSM play?

At what point, after negotiation, is TFTB occurring in intimate BDSM play?

At what point, after negotiation, is TFTB occurring in a D/s dynamic?

I am curious about the opinions on this, too. *smiles* I have my thoughts, of course.

quote:

ORIGINAL: GoddessManko

I don't understand why there would be issues months into a relationship so outside my jurisdiction I guess.

It's not, for me. However,t hat is when most people allude to it, from what I can tell.

quote:

ORIGINAL: ExiledTyrant

Me: Now is not the time for foreplay.

Wait! You waterboard AND have a bouncy castle? *swoons*

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RE: Topping From The Bottom, Asshole-ing from the Sidel... - 12/1/2014 1:19:49 PM

SweetForDaddy

Posts: 167
Joined: 5/17/2014
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quote:

ORIGINAL: ExiledTyrant

~FR

Okay, this is taking a wrong turn. Negotiations are negotiations. The topic is TFTB.

If your bottom is saying, "Hey! Fucker, I've been mauled better by miniature house pets." He/she isn't TFTB, they are illustrating that you are fucking up... not meeting their needs. Nookies OP covered many details, but lets get down to what everyone is poking at:

At what point, after negotiation, is TFTB occurring in casual BDSM play?

At what point, after negotiation, is TFTB occurring in intimate BDSM play?

At what point, after negotiation, is TFTB occurring in a D/s dynamic?

I think it might happen as a kind of testing boundaries thing, I've been guilty of that sometimes. I have pushed to see what kind of reaction I will get, or to see how far I can push, like a child. I don't like doing it because I know it can diminish the role of the dominant and ruin things but it has happened and I hate to say probably will again in the future. I suppose this could be classed as bratting but I don't really consider myself to be a brat. It's not usually something that is happening constantly throughout the relationship.

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RE: Topping From The Bottom, Asshole-ing from the Sidel... - 12/1/2014 1:46:04 PM

SweetForDaddy

Posts: 167
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quote:

ORIGINAL: CreativeDominant

quote:

ORIGINAL: SweetForDaddy

quote:

ORIGINAL: CreativeDominant

Sometimes it is just a matter of, as E.T. put it so succinctly, they can only lead if you follow and once you consent to follow, you forfeit all rights to bitch. I would add, until the next discussion/negotiation takes place.

I don't agree with that at all. I would only consent to TRY something though, if that something was new to the relationship. And I would make damn sure that it was agreed if I couldn't handle it that it would stop right then, not when the next negotiation took place. By the time the next negotiation took place the damage may have been done. I'm totally wary of trying new things.

Understandable...if you ignore everything I wrote before that.

BUT...BEFORE I stated the above, I stated that there was discussion and negotiation of a thorough nature before consent so that nothing that comes up after consent is given is a surprise.

I ALSO stated that a big problem comes in when the dominant goes off the agreed-upon pages. Perhaps I should have added in "without discussion first".

If I hadn't stated all of the above before I stated the part you quoted, I'd agree with you. And, to go further, if there are dominants who don't discuss and negotiate and make sure that there's a clear understanding of what's to take place or dominants who go off the page without discussion...especially with a new partner...then the submissive has not only the right but the obligation to speak up.

But I still have the right to withdraw my consent at any time, discussion or no discussion beforehand. Even when things are discussed in the minutest detail it can go bad, or I could change my mind, or it might not be how I thought it was going to be. I probably wouldn't but having my consent at one moment doesn't mean you keep my consent if I'm feeling unhappy during and want to stop, or that I forfeit any rights. There's no way to be absolutely certain everything will go to plan.

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RE: Topping From The Bottom, Asshole-ing from the Sidel... - 12/1/2014 1:51:04 PM

ExiledTyrant

Posts: 4547
Joined: 12/9/2013
From: Exiled
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quote:

ORIGINAL: SweetForDaddy

quote:

ORIGINAL: CreativeDominant

quote:

ORIGINAL: SweetForDaddy

quote:

ORIGINAL: CreativeDominant

Sometimes it is just a matter of, as E.T. put it so succinctly, they can only lead if you follow and once you consent to follow, you forfeit all rights to bitch. I would add, until the next discussion/negotiation takes place.

I don't agree with that at all. I would only consent to TRY something though, if that something was new to the relationship. And I would make damn sure that it was agreed if I couldn't handle it that it would stop right then, not when the next negotiation took place. By the time the next negotiation took place the damage may have been done. I'm totally wary of trying new things.

Understandable...if you ignore everything I wrote before that.

BUT...BEFORE I stated the above, I stated that there was discussion and negotiation of a thorough nature before consent so that nothing that comes up after consent is given is a surprise.

I ALSO stated that a big problem comes in when the dominant goes off the agreed-upon pages. Perhaps I should have added in "without discussion first".

If I hadn't stated all of the above before I stated the part you quoted, I'd agree with you. And, to go further, if there are dominants who don't discuss and negotiate and make sure that there's a clear understanding of what's to take place or dominants who go off the page without discussion...especially with a new partner...then the submissive has not only the right but the obligation to speak up.

But I still have the right to withdraw my consent at any time, discussion or no discussion beforehand. Even when things are discussed in the minutest detail it can go bad, or I could change my mind, or it might not be how I thought it was going to be. I probably wouldn't but having my consent at one moment doesn't mean you keep my consent if I'm feeling unhappy during and want to stop, or that I forfeit any rights. There's no way to be absolutely certain everything will go to plan.

If only there was a pre-negotiated word in place that would allow you to withdraw consent... Hmmmm... I'm off to the lab to work this part out.

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RE: Topping From The Bottom, Asshole-ing from the Sidel... - 12/1/2014 1:53:02 PM

ExiledTyrant

Posts: 4547
Joined: 12/9/2013
From: Exiled
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quote:

ORIGINAL: NookieNotes

quote:

ORIGINAL: ExiledTyrant

Me: Now is not the time for foreplay.

Wait! You waterboard AND have a bouncy castle? *swoons*

Hey, I r tha dominate of dominates.

Jus sayin

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Semper fidelis (which sometimes feels like a burden)

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RE: Topping From The Bottom, Asshole-ing from the Sidel... - 12/1/2014 2:05:23 PM

SweetForDaddy

Posts: 167
Joined: 5/17/2014
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quote:

ORIGINAL: ExiledTyrant

quote:

ORIGINAL: SweetForDaddy

quote:

ORIGINAL: CreativeDominant

quote:

ORIGINAL: SweetForDaddy

quote:

ORIGINAL: CreativeDominant

Sometimes it is just a matter of, as E.T. put it so succinctly, they can only lead if you follow and once you consent to follow, you forfeit all rights to bitch. I would add, until the next discussion/negotiation takes place.

I don't agree with that at all. I would only consent to TRY something though, if that something was new to the relationship. And I would make damn sure that it was agreed if I couldn't handle it that it would stop right then, not when the next negotiation took place. By the time the next negotiation took place the damage may have been done. I'm totally wary of trying new things.

Understandable...if you ignore everything I wrote before that.

BUT...BEFORE I stated the above, I stated that there was discussion and negotiation of a thorough nature before consent so that nothing that comes up after consent is given is a surprise.

I ALSO stated that a big problem comes in when the dominant goes off the agreed-upon pages. Perhaps I should have added in "without discussion first".

If I hadn't stated all of the above before I stated the part you quoted, I'd agree with you. And, to go further, if there are dominants who don't discuss and negotiate and make sure that there's a clear understanding of what's to take place or dominants who go off the page without discussion...especially with a new partner...then the submissive has not only the right but the obligation to speak up.

But I still have the right to withdraw my consent at any time, discussion or no discussion beforehand. Even when things are discussed in the minutest detail it can go bad, or I could change my mind, or it might not be how I thought it was going to be. I probably wouldn't but having my consent at one moment doesn't mean you keep my consent if I'm feeling unhappy during and want to stop, or that I forfeit any rights. There's no way to be absolutely certain everything will go to plan.

If only there was a pre-negotiated word in place that would allow you to withdraw consent... Hmmmm... I'm off to the lab to work this part out.

Nothing was mentioned about safe words though. All that was mentioned that consent was given and that the right to bitch was forfeited. I read it as - suck it up, not use a safe-word if you're unhappy.

< Message edited by SweetForDaddy -- 12/1/2014 2:08:15 PM >

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RE: Topping From The Bottom, Asshole-ing from the Sidel... - 12/1/2014 2:05:25 PM

Charles6682

Posts: 1820
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I agree a lot with what the OP said. Well said!

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RE: Topping From The Bottom, Asshole-ing from the Sidel... - 12/1/2014 2:05:54 PM

GoddessManko

Posts: 2257
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From: Dante's Inferno
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quote:

ORIGINAL: littleladybug

quote:

ORIGINAL: GoddessManko

If it happens post negotiation someone fucked up somewhere.

The more I am around this life, the more I realize what I *don't* know. Speaking from a sub's perspective...I don't know what I don't know.

More than that, though, I know that my limits are ever-changing. What I did, or liked, 10 years, or 10 days, ago may not be applicable now.

Personally, I can only go with what I know, at this point in time. If my response is different, then it just *is*. This has happened with my man. What we "negotiated" and spoke about has changed. No deception involved...just things were different when they were "in play" than they were in my mind. What I enjoyed previously has caused me great issues when they were put into play. I never, EVER, would have thought so prior...but, it just is what it is at this point. Frankly, I know that he's disappointed in it, from a purely carnal perspective. But, he's gotten over that disappointment...knowing that *this* issue, for whatever reason, is something that's simply not going to be pressed through by him throwing out the "Dom" card, and whining that I hadn't disclosed it earlier.

Oh, I understand entirely. Honestly that is fine and it's normal for feelings to be in a state of flux, mine are as we speak. I have no idea who I was 10 years ago going into a D/s relationship vs who I am now. Kind of just waiting for that "ah-hah" moment. For me though,stopping scene is hard. I know this might make me sound like an asshole but it's not that, I kind of go into what I call "Domme space" and I kind of get lost into what I am doing and the reactions it causes. Pulling myself out of that state is hard, equivalent of "blue balls" for a man which is why starting out I don't go too far into scene or let myself get "carried away". Rope on skin drives me wild though so anyone not in bondage is generally in the safe zone,LOL.
So you might think I am an impatient bitch when really it's my worry that I will not only be disappointed but possibly hurting my would-be sub. Might be my subs up until now have just been so agreeable that it just ruins it for those with TOO MUCH flux.

quote:

I can imagine all I want...nothing takes the place of actually experiencing it, at the time.

It doesn't matter whether it's the first time, or the 100th time...if I don't like something, I feel that is in my relationship's best interest to actually say something. If the person I am with can't handle that...well, they're not the right person for me. And, the fact that they consider themselves "Dominant" means squat in this vein.

Yes, if you don't like something, say something. But my worry as a Dom always is REALLY hurting someone,and not in a good way. Turning them off to lifestyle/permanent trauma. If you didn't even break scene in the midst of it then wow.
And LOL Exiled!! He kind of perfectly worded what the issue is more times than not. Unlike you, most subs have no idea what they dislike or like or even verbalize it til they're actually tied up. The one I am thinking of even said to me "I have always wanted that, the proDomme's restraints feel like they can break easily!!!" ( he was a Do-me, I know but most subs have been to a pro at one point or another). At the time we had an amazing first date, been a while since I dommed someone(D frenzy maybe) and since he seemed OK with all the kinks I had in mind I went full throttle. We seemed compatible til that point. He could not even handle the rope, the flogger, nothing. When I touched his hands, they were only slightly clammy meaning his circulation was still pretty good. It was just disappointing and it really did ruin my evening. Using rope is one of my favorite things. Even a maybe is better than a yes, seriously.

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Post #: 95

RE: Topping From The Bottom, Asshole-ing from the Sidel... - 12/1/2014 2:11:17 PM

ExiledTyrant

Posts: 4547
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From: Exiled
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quote:

ORIGINAL: SweetForDaddy

Nothing was mentioned about safe words though. All that was mentioned that consent was given and that the right to bitch was forfeited. I read it as - suck it up, not use a safe-word if you're unhappy.

Seriously?

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Post #: 96

RE: Topping From The Bottom, Asshole-ing from the Sidel... - 12/1/2014 2:15:41 PM

littleladybug

Posts: 1082
Joined: 5/30/2013
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quote:

ORIGINAL: SweetForDaddy

But I still have the right to withdraw my consent at any time, discussion or no discussion beforehand. Even when things are discussed in the minutest detail it can go bad, or I could change my mind, or it might not be how I thought it was going to be. I probably wouldn't but having my consent at one moment doesn't mean you keep my consent if I'm feeling unhappy during and want to stop, or that I forfeit any rights. There's no way to be absolutely certain everything will go to plan.

Yes.

IMO, there is a serious "woe is me" attitude that goes on with a lot of self-proclaimed Dominants. If desires and wants are changed by the sub, for any reason, it is the "sub's fault". I mean, look at ALL the Dom gives. They have to work through things even if they are really pissed off. They have to "lead" even if they're tired. Look at ALL the work that goes into planning a scene...

The least we can do as subs is respect this...

Oh wait...

Even if we do...(and by saying "we", I am referring to "me"), the blame comes back to the sub, in a lot of cases. Yup...I completely agree with you that there's no way to know how things are going to go. And what happens if the feelings are different? Should I, as a sub, just "suck it up", because that's what I agreed to? That is a complete cop-out. I'll be damned if I will endure something that I thought at one point was "ok", and now I just detest. Yup, I appreciate all of the "planning" that went into it...but the end result is something I don't like. 'Because of the "planning", I'm just going with it'... I do really wonder about the mental state of someone who would accept that...

I've been known to "test boundaries"...but this is not what I'm speaking about here. This is a legitimate "I thought all was good with it, but now, I'm not so sure". In my world, any Dom worth his salt will take this *very* seriously. He won't whine about how I told him initially that I was "cool with it". If an evening was planned around said activity, he won't complain that the "evening was ruined". He will actually probably be grateful that this has come out. And, yes, he knows, at the end of the day, that his "control" has boundaries.

But that requires, as I have seen, someone to look past the stereotypes of what a "Dominant" and "submissive" are. That requires "thinking on your feet", and determining whether this relationship is worth it to you... Sometimes it works, sometimes it doesn't.

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RE: Topping From The Bottom, Asshole-ing from the Sidel... - 12/1/2014 2:22:02 PM

InHisHeart

Posts: 630
Joined: 3/22/2014
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quote:

ORIGINAL: ExiledTyrant

At what point, after negotiation, is TFTB occurring in casual BDSM play?

At what point, after negotiation, is TFTB occurring in intimate BDSM play?

At what point, after negotiation, is TFTB occurring in a D/s dynamic?

I don't do casual play so no comment there.

The following are just my take on TFTB.

During intimate BDSM play would be stopping him from doing X when it is not a hard limit and there's no good legitimate reason for me to stop him. If I'm not in the mood for X or I don't feel like playing tonight or it's something I might not particularly like, that's not a reason to stop him from doing it or trying to change the pace and get him to do Y or Z instead of X. He calls the shots, period! There are times he asks me what I want but whether it happens or not is up to him. If it doesn't happen, I don't challenge him on it, I don't pout or throw a hissy fit.

Within every day D/s dynamic, I don't question a decision he makes or try to get him to change his decision. The only time I will question his decision or tell him I feel doing this instead of that would be better is if there's a very good reason to do so.

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RE: Topping From The Bottom, Asshole-ing from the Sidel... - 12/1/2014 2:38:22 PM

littleladybug

Posts: 1082
Joined: 5/30/2013
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quote:

ORIGINAL: GoddessManko

For me though,stopping scene is hard. I know this might make me sound like an asshole but it's not that, I kind of go into what I call "Domme space" and I kind of get lost into what I am doing and the reactions it causes. Pulling myself out of that state is hard, equivalent of "blue balls" for a man which is why starting out I don't go too far into scene or let myself get "carried away". Rope on skin drives me wild though so anyone not in bondage is generally in the safe zone,LOL.

Perhaps there's the difference? I'm really not speaking about "scening". My view of D/s doesn't really incorporate that term. Yes, I'm speaking about sex... but not necessarily some "scene" that is planned and choreographed. Even so, I'm not speaking of stopping it mid-stream. Though, it did happen. It was not intentional on my part, he just sensed a distinct difference in my demeanor. I may have some really great abilities, but acting is not one of them...

I *know* that what I am reticent about now is something that he really wants. And, honestly, if he used the excuse of getting lost in "Dom space" with this, I would be incredibly pissed, at best. Because, at some point in our conversations, I said that I did this, and enjoyed it, doesn't give him free rein. "Blue balls" or whatever...I would never want to be with someone who didn't respect where I was, at that point, as a submissive...and more importantly, as *me*.

quote:

ORIGINAL: GoddessManko

Yes, if you don't like something, say something. But my worry as a Dom always is REALLY hurting someone,and not in a good way. Turning them off to lifestyle/permanent trauma. If you didn't even break scene in the midst of it then wow.

Again, taking away the "scening" issue...

With what you have said, I would be sincerely concerned with getting the "topping from the bottom" lecture. I gave you my hard limits, my soft limits...hell, we even broke out the BDSM list, and spoke about *that* at length. What happens if...things change?

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RE: Topping From The Bottom, Asshole-ing from the Sidel... - 12/1/2014 2:38:30 PM

GoddessManko

Posts: 2257
Joined: 3/6/2013
From: Dante's Inferno
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: InHisHeart

quote:

ORIGINAL: ExiledTyrant

At what point, after negotiation, is TFTB occurring in casual BDSM play?

At what point, after negotiation, is TFTB occurring in intimate BDSM play?

At what point, after negotiation, is TFTB occurring in a D/s dynamic?

I don't do casual play so no comment there.

The following are just my take on TFTB.

During intimate BDSM play would be stopping him from doing X when it is not a hard limit and there's no good legitimate reason for me to stop him. If I'm not in the mood for X or I don't feel like playing tonight or it's something I might not particularly like, that's not a reason to stop him from doing it or trying to change the pace and get him to do Y or Z instead of X. He calls the shots, period! There are times he asks me what I want but whether it happens or not is up to him. If it doesn't happen, I don't challenge him on it, I don't pout or throw a hissy fit.

Within every day D/s dynamic, I don't question a decision he makes or try to get him to change his decision. The only time I will question his decision or tell him I feel doing this instead of that would be better is if there's a very good reason to do so.

I swear, makes me swoon, love it. What a lucky Dom. That's like the holy grail for me. I would be in heaven with such a sub.

ETA, to littleladybug", it is hard for me to break "scene". I only call it such because I probably have gone over it in my mind before execution. I like my movements to be relatively fluid with little hesitation and I also like changing things up so it takes a bit of planning. Sort of a natural process for me at this point, especially in restraining myself, Deciding when and how if appropriate. So of course I may be crushed by the scene ending prematurely but would respect your wishes. Also I like when my sub is comfortable, that's what increases my excitement so you not having a good time would have an adverse effect.
In my mind, he might really want something but if he's like me, he "really wants" many things and is flexible depending on the sub so I wouldn't worry if I were you. Things changing is not an issue for me, it's just when I think the light is green when it's really yellow or red and I take things in the completely wrong direction unknowingly because I'm not psychic, if that makes sense. It really is extremely rare for me to have a bad domming experience. That was the first time and it was awful, truth be told. I like having an idea of who my sub is, at least to some degree before proceeding.

< Message edited by GoddessManko -- 12/1/2014 2:48:15 PM >

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