Suicide. (Full Version)

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MariaB -> Suicide. (11/27/2014 5:16:05 AM)

This morning I witnessed a suicide. I was walking my dog along the river bank when I saw a man jump off a very high bridge. My first reaction was to call the emergency services. I was unaware that there were already police on the bridge trying to talk him out of it. The bridge is a popular suicide spot and as far as I know, nobody has survived the jump.

Many years ago I was the victim of suicide from someone very close to me. I understand this awful curb of emotions those left behind go through. I know what his family are about to go through, if indeed he has a family.

I know a lot of people think that suicide is a selfish act or a cowards way out. Whilst I fully understand the anger, the victims of losing someone to suicide go through, I can't help but think, how bad things must be before someone can end it all, especially in such a violent and certain way? I understand cries for help but a violent end isn't a cry for help. I think a person has to be very brave to end it all in such a way.

This morning there were suddenly a lot of people on the bank of the river and in the river. Peoples immediate reactions were "how terrible" and "how sad" and not the reactions we normally hear regarding a suicide.

I'm interested to know how others feel regarding this topic? do you believe they are selfish/cowards or do you think that perhaps they were just so desperate and couldn't see a tomorrow?






InHisHeart -> RE: Suicide. (11/27/2014 6:11:30 AM)

Suicide due to mental illness is a very close to home subject for me, my thoughts and emotions on it are many and mixed. I feel it's very sad and tragic how much emotional turmoil and inner hell someone who is suicidal lives with and has to fight through with sometimes losing the will to fight and losing the battle. I do not feel they are selfish or a coward, I feel the pain is too much to bear and it's the only way they feel they'll be at peace.



NookieNotes -> RE: Suicide. (11/27/2014 6:17:02 AM)

I tend to be sad more than angry.

My mother essentially chose suicide. Although she was in stage 4 breast cancer, she just didn't want to wait, so she stopped taking fluids. Dried herself out, and made herself too weak to fight and live.

It upset me. I would have wanted her to fight, but I have known that I cannot control the actions of others, and it was the right decision for her, for her own reasons.

That is my only personal experience with suicide. Everything else has been removed from passing acquaintances and further.



Kaliko -> RE: Suicide. (11/27/2014 6:25:43 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: MariaB

This morning I witnessed a suicide. I was walking my dog along the river bank when I saw a man jump off a very high bridge. My first reaction was to call the emergency services. I was unaware that there were already police on the bridge trying to talk him out of it. The bridge is a popular suicide spot and as far as I know, nobody has survived the jump.

Many years ago I was the victim of suicide from someone very close to me. I understand this awful curb of emotions those left behind go through. I know what his family are about to go through, if indeed he has a family.

I know a lot of people think that suicide is a selfish act or a cowards way out. Whilst I fully understand the anger, the victims of losing someone to suicide go through, I can't help but think, how bad things must be before someone can end it all, especially in such a violent and certain way? I understand cries for help but a violent end isn't a cry for help. I think a person has to be very brave to end it all in such a way.

This morning there were suddenly a lot of people on the bank of the river and in the river. Peoples immediate reactions were "how terrible" and "how sad" and not the reactions we normally hear regarding a suicide.

I'm interested to know how others feel regarding this topic? do you believe they are selfish/cowards or do you think that perhaps they were just so desperate and couldn't see a tomorrow?







I have a different reaction. I feel disgust at people who suddenly develop compassion toward a person after they commit suicide. Those people on the river bank who shake their heads and say "how terrible" and "how sad" are symbolic of those in and around his life who probably never even considered reaching out to him unless it suited them to do so. The selfishness of human beings just never ceases to amaze me, unfortunately. There are so few that actually change themselves for the good of others and nothing more. Ah, but I digress. (It's just a really sore point with me. "Oh, such a shame" is something I hear so often from people who, a week ago when someone wasn't tragic news, they couldn't give a fuck about.)

As for the person who committed suicide? I feel one has to be so terribly desperate and lost to consider such an act. There must be such a tragic loss of hope. Even in my worst days (and there have been some bad ones) I always felt that ultimately, there was something to be gained from the experience; that there was some sort of good that could come from it even if there was no way to see it right then. I can't imagine what it must be like to not have that sense of hope. Or, I suppose, to have a mental illness that could cloud that hope.



Greta75 -> RE: Suicide. (11/27/2014 6:34:33 AM)

For me they are brave, but the only inconsiderate part is causing inconvenience to people handling the dead body.

Anybody who say it's cowardly to kill yourself should attempt it and see how it easy it is to do it. I mean, it's seriously not easy.

I am a huge believer people should have full rights to choose to live or die. So I respect their choices.



ydd -> RE: Suicide. (11/27/2014 7:06:29 AM)

In high school, one of my Mom's coworkers put a gun in his mouth. In first year nursing school one of my classmates jumped from a bridge. Just a few months ago, a young cousin with a promising hockey future killed himself.

The problem with suicide is that we never have the opportunity to ask why? What could I have done? Could I gave made a difference? Unfortunately, if the person has truĺy reached their breaking point, the answers to the last 2 questions are nothing, and no. For whatever reason, these people are broken.

MariaB, I am so sorry that you had to witness something like this. Please take care of yourself in the days to come, and don't hesitate to talk to someone if you need to. Unfortunately, the person who kills themself, is never the only victim.



InHisHeart -> RE: Suicide. (11/27/2014 7:11:57 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Kaliko

I have a different reaction. I feel disgust at people who suddenly develop compassion toward a person after they commit suicide. Those people on the river bank who shake their heads and say "how terrible" and "how sad" are symbolic of those in and around his life who probably never even considered reaching out to him unless it suited them to do so.


I have no doubt that's true for some but it certainly is not true for others. Some have all the compassion, love, help, support from others they can possibly have but it doesn't help them feel better, it doesn't destroy their inner demons. Some people never share with others the pain they're in, they never reach out to others for help, they never let anyone into their private world of hell.



Greta75 -> RE: Suicide. (11/27/2014 7:42:46 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: ydd
The problem with suicide is that we never have the opportunity to ask why? What could I have done? Could I gave made a difference? Unfortunately, if the person has truĺy reached their breaking point, the answers to the last 2 questions are nothing, and no. For whatever reason, these people are broken.



But what if whatever is after death is not the worser place than being on earth?
Because we all don't know what's in the after-life, we just assume living is better place. But what if it was not? And they are peaceful and happy where they are now?



kallisto -> RE: Suicide. (11/27/2014 7:53:38 AM)

My stepson committed suicide .. in his mother's house. I found him. I have to believe that he is happier and peaceful than while he was here on earth.

Some stories I've read I believe the person was selfish and didn't accept the help he/she was offered. Others, there was no reaching them, no giving them enough help to "reach their inner demons". I think there is no fully understanding suicide unless we are in that person's shoes. And even then, if we were, we wouldn't live to be able to tell it.



MariaB -> RE: Suicide. (11/27/2014 9:26:46 AM)

I'm going to try and answer you all because you have all written such thoughtful posts.

InHisHeart and none of us who don't or ever have had a suicidal thought can start to comprehend what it must be like. I was shocked and frightened when a close friend recently told me, "there isn't a day that goes by without me planning my suicide". I believed my friend was happy. She's always laughing and she's the bell of the ball. She doesn't outwardly show her inner turmoil and its very distressing to now know how much pain she carries with her every single day.

NookieNotes So sorry to hear about your mum. I would like to believe that if I was dying and I was suffering, I could take the controls. Its hard for those you leave behind though.

Kaliko I think there are instances where people just don't care about a person until its too late. I had a work colleague who committed suicide after his wife ran off with another man and made it almost impossible to see his children. After his death everyone rallied around her to comfort her. Not that I'm blaming her for his suicide but prior to his death she was suggesting he go and jump under a train.

I agree with you. One does have to be desperate or perhaps even numb inside to commit such an act.

Greta Talking about others having to clear up the mess/body parts, reminded me of a conversation I had some time ago with a friend of mine who is a consultant psychiatrist. She told me that when men commit suicide they are far more likely to do it in a violent way such as jumping in front of a train. Women are more likely to do it in a much less violent way.

Greta, from previous threads I know how you feel about life. It frightens me because I don't know what to do or say. All I can do is send you a hug and ask, how can such a popular and fun member on these boards that we all know and like, feel so sad.

ydd Thanks for your kind words but I'm fine really. I just keep thinking stupid thoughts like, this morning he got up and put on his socks and shoes just like any other day but that was the last time he would ever put his socks and shoes on. I guess this sort of thing will make any of us think crazy thoughts for a while. I'm so sorry to hear about your cousin.

We talk people out of suicide all the time. Some of those people will just kill themselves in a different place at a different time and some will survive, move on and live a good life. We have to accept that sometimes we can only help those who are willing to be helped.

kallisto
I can relate to finding your stepson, I also found my best friend but that was many years ago when we were still teenagers. Finding someone you know and love does have a detrimental effect on your life for many years, if not for ever and brings you very close to suicide, not of yourself but the need to understand it. I can truly relate to what you went through and its good to know you have accepted he's in a happier more peaceful place.





ydd -> RE: Suicide. (11/27/2014 9:45:12 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Greta75


quote:

ORIGINAL: ydd
The problem with suicide is that we never have the opportunity to ask why? What could I have done? Could I gave made better place", because no matter how true it is for the person gone, it is rarely the reaction of the survivors.rence? Unfortunately, if the person has truĺy reached their breaking point, the answers to the last 2 questions are nothing, and no. For whatever reason, these people are broken.



But what if whatever is after death is not the worser place than being on earth?
Because we all don't know what's in the after-life, we just assume living is better place. But what if it was not? And they are peaceful and happy where they are now?



Oh gosh Greta! I won't argue with you on that one. I have very strong beliefs in this area, and I call that place heaven. I just really hate the cliche "they are in a better place now", and didn't want to use it.

I have an admission to make, something very few people know. I have attempted suicide. Not once, but twice. Since I am a girl, I tried an easy way...pills. Unsuccessful both times, obviously, but they were more of a cry for help than anything else. The sad thing is that neither time have I gotten that help. So, on the really bad days, I just look at my children. Besides, if I were successful and got to heaven, the first person I would mmet is my mother and she would just kick my ass back down here, LOL.



DaddySatyr -> RE: Suicide. (11/27/2014 9:55:26 AM)


Suicide has touched my life, a couple of times. Also, I have a condition where I will have to make a choice, at some point, if I am "living" or just "holding on" or "taking up space". I believe that my situation is a bit different from the car salesman that loses it all and decides he can't go on but, it isn't that much different.

I cannot, even when applied to my own situation, completely exonerate someone of being a coward when the truth is that it takes a lot more effort to push on through life's trials and tribulations than it does to just shuffle of our mortal coil.

I can understand the intense confusion, frustration, fear, anger, and senses of foreboding and having been "screwed" by life (or God or whatever). I've been through all of these emotions (Yes, my personal decision has, pretty much, already been made). I can tell you that it is a personal hell, but I still feel that to some degree, I still see a lack of bravery or a lack of tenacity.

Life sucks. It's hard. It tests us, at almost every turn. I believe it is our "job" to live it as well and as fully as we can.

I also believe that there's a tipping point; a place where the pain or difficulty of living becomes too much for some of us. I don't know how anyone else but ourselves can define where that line is but ...

Then, we come to the issue of mental illness. This doesn't clear the waters but, instead, it muddies them, even more. Unless a person who is prone to some sort of mental illness which causes thoughts or attempts of suicide reaches out for help, how are we to know that they haven't just made a decision based upon their own values as to what is and isn't acceptable in their own lives (Robin Williams, anyone?)?

My heart goes out to anyone who is caught up in the pain and anguish that causes these kinds of decisions but I still can't bring myself to consider it anything more than "the easy way out"; and remember: I'm speaking of myself, also.







Screen captures (and pissing on shadows) still RULE! Ya feel me?



DesFIP -> RE: Suicide. (11/27/2014 10:46:18 AM)

I've attempted it a couple of times.

It's none of the above. It's the result of a diseased brain. MRIs of suicides show distinct brain changes. Saying someone is a coward for doing it is like saying they're a coward for having cancer. It's a disease. And blaming people for being sick is crazy.

The problem is that when the brain is this sick, you can't think straight to identify the problem and seek help.
The last time, I spent three days planning when to close the garage door with the car running before I realized what I was thinking. I was at my doctor's the next day asking for a referral to a psychiatrist with experience in genetic mood disorders. She tried to get me to sign myself into the psych ward for the weekend but I didn't have anyone to watch my kids. However she didn't let me leave till after she saw me swallow a SSRI and I had an appointment with the psychiatrist for Monday.




DeviantlyD -> RE: Suicide. (11/27/2014 11:09:44 AM)

I cannot judge anyone for committing suicide.

Life is difficult. It has many beautiful and joyous parts, but it also has painful parts too. And sometimes the struggle to get through that pain is more than some are able to deal with...or endure.

I agree with a lot of what some of the other posters have said, especially InHisHeart. We are very similar in our views on this.

Kaliko: While I do agree with your first paragraph, I also know that as InHisHeart stated, not everyone will reach out or even let on that they are in pain.

When they do? It may not even be acknowledged as serious. My cousin committed suicide. We talked on the phone about a month before she jumped off a bridge. She told me she wanted to kill herself but I had no idea of the depths of her pain. She did not reveal much of why she felt suicidal and I felt it was too invasive to probe into the why of it. She has two beautiful daughters and I know they meant everything to her. I didn't think she would leave them. But she did. So I do not deny a person's words about suicide anymore. If they even hint at it, I want to make sure they are safe. But sometimes, no matter how supportive you are, you can't talk someone off the ledge.

Greta75: The only problem with supporting a person's choice to live or die is that the person who chooses to die may not be doing so from a place of clear judgment. Sometimes it is, but sometimes it isn't. As for going to a worse place after death? No, it is not worse. It is home.

kallisto: He is.

I've seen the reaction of those who have had a loved one commit suicide and say the person was selfish or a coward. The reaction is one of shock and disbelief…and the pain of knowing that person is gone. So I think that judgment is coming from their own hurt.

MariaB: I cannot fathom witnessing that and not being affected by it. But I know I'm rather sensitive to these things. You witnessed something pretty serious when you were younger. Experiences oftentimes create protective barriers. I am guessing this may be why you were able to not be profoundly affected by that man's suicide. It is, I think in some ways, a good thing.



shiftyw -> RE: Suicide. (11/27/2014 12:16:00 PM)

My ex committed suicide.
We were no longer seeing each other at the time but he was my best friend. I loved him deeply on a lot of levels. I miss him all the time and I dream about him sometimes. I found out he killed himself by googling him to see if I could find his email since he hadn't answered his phone in so long...and I found his obituary. I understand why he did it. I go from happy he is no longer in pain, to angry that he isn't here, to missing him so painfully it makes my heart ache.

I don't know. He was miserable. I know that, but selfishly I get mad at him for leaving me here. Nothing will ever fill that void he has left. My fingers remember how he felt.

I actually question if I will ever love anyone so much again.

I don't think it was cowardly of him. I don't necessarily feel it was selfish. But it was and continues to be sad. I think the system failed him. I get angry nothing worked to help him.

I 'talk' to him all the time. I don't even consider myself spiritual, but I hope he hears me. I wish I had helped him more. He helped me after my rape so much. He found me therapy, if I needed him he would be there, or call right away. He was my best friend, I loved him, and hope whatever happens when we go I hope it has been wonderful for him.



made4urcontrol -> RE: Suicide. (11/27/2014 1:29:03 PM)

My wife may have committed suicide as well - she took a lot of pills, though not all, so I'll never know for sure - but I agree that we cannot criticize because we are not them. She lived in such pain, and though she had promised me many times that she would never attempt it again, I know something just snapped the horrible, horrible night she took the pills.

My heart goes out to all of you. I know I will never love another that way...I will love, but never so completely. My heart knows that she and I will meet again. I just wish I knew whether on any day it would hurt or help that to leave this life to start the search.



Greta75 -> RE: Suicide. (11/27/2014 4:59:21 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: ydd
Oh gosh Greta! I won't argue with you on that one. I have very strong beliefs in this area, and I call that place heaven. I just really hate the cliche "they are in a better place now", and didn't want to use it.

I don't really believe in heaven. But I will simply say, after death is an unknown place to all of us. It's scary because it's unknown, and to make a choice to go there, means, taking a risk, in hopes the other place will be better, will the Christians be right? Lol, if you are a buddhist, it probably isn't better, since there is nothing but torture that awaits you to punish you for all life's wrong doings. And some Christians believe suicide leads straight to hell too.

But anyway, it's very difficult to fix people's problems. It also takes immense patience, time and emotional strength to help them. My feelings to the matter is, do as much as you can, but sometimes, there is nothing you can do. And if you have children, there's where you can make the change, how can you help your children be stronger and be able to handle whatever adversity life throws out at them? That would be the direction to reduce suicide rates. Many things starts from the foundation. Trying to rebuild a bad foundation from scratch is gonna have a lower success rate.







Greta75 -> RE: Suicide. (11/27/2014 5:21:03 PM)

I know alot of good people who die young from illnesses and accidents, when I say young, I mean, below 30, but I don't know anybody who ever commit suicide. Although suicide rate is actually very high in my country and people, male or female, love to jump down buildings since we are filled with skyscrapers. Usually due to debt from gambling and things like that or business failure.

And I swear every single person I know who died young of causes beyond their control, are like those type of "saintly" people, like really really the kindest hearted sort of person. I really believe in the good die young. Because of that, I believe there is a reason for that.



camille65 -> RE: Suicide. (11/27/2014 7:23:01 PM)

I've never understood that 'only a selfish person commits suicide' thing. Or saying it is taking the easy way out, it isn't easy. It is final and that just isn't something a person says waking up one day. "Gee maybe today I will go have lunch at that new Mexican joint, take a nap then shoot myself in the head. Yeah, great day for that!".

When people say that, it is to me a way of victim blaming. A way of rationalizing it within their own mind that someone they knew/loved took their own life. I do understand the grief and anger, sometimes it is almost like a personal betrayal. I understand the hurt and pain over not being enough for someone to live. But in the end it isn't about me or my pain. Not unless I'm the one choosing that way out for myself.



starkem -> RE: Suicide. (11/27/2014 8:14:58 PM)

Suicide is a very sad thing. Some people take for granted their innate ability to preserve their life. Some people have lost that inherent ability. When that ability is gone, I guarantee tragedy will ensue. Reasons are irrelevant.



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