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RE: hazing new posters - 12/10/2014 2:50:25 PM   
RockaRolla


Posts: 1153
Joined: 1/20/2014
From: South Florida
Status: offline 		OK, let me spell it out for you.

I made an error when I said "we." I corrected myself when asked for clarification, and decided "I" was more fitting.

I thought that "we" might include "Myself, and those who may agree with me," as there seemed to be a few of those on this thread. I am not 100% about this, and so I corrected myself and replace "we" with "I." I will not do that in the original post, because I am outside of the edit window.

Considering I have answered this already, and it's apparent to at least one person, why do you feel the need to ask it again?
I realized my mistake and corrected it. There is no need to keep asking the question when it has already been answered.

What answer are you looking for?
Is this not a sufficient answer for you?

If not, perhaps a more specific question than "who is we" will need to be asked. Otherwise you're only acting out the definition of crazy: repeating the same action, over and over, and expecting a different result.

ETA: You're welcome, shifty.

< Message edited by RockaRolla -- 12/10/2014 2:55:47 PM >

_____________________________

~Roxie

(in reply to shiftyw)
Profile   Post #: 181
RE: hazing new posters - 12/10/2014 2:55:05 PM   
RockaRolla


Posts: 1153
Joined: 1/20/2014
From: South Florida
Status: offline 		Alternate answer to your question - the people who disagree with the OP, who may or may not agree with me specifically.

Why are they included in "we?" Because the OP is attempting to call them out on showing a lack of respect to new or inexperienced posters, and those people obviously do not agree with the assertion that those posters are immediately entitled to respect. Because if they did agree with the OP, there would be no discussion for you.

Now you have two answers. Are you not entertained?

_____________________________

~Roxie

(in reply to RockaRolla)
Profile   Post #: 182
RE: hazing new posters - 12/10/2014 2:59:51 PM   
shiftyw


Posts: 2837
Joined: 6/6/2013
From: The Shire
Status: offline 		Ten pages

(in reply to RockaRolla)
Profile   Post #: 183
RE: hazing new posters - 12/10/2014 3:01:02 PM   
CreativeDominant


Posts: 11032
Joined: 3/11/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: GotSteel


quote:

ORIGINAL: CreativeDominant
There was a poster on here who loved to talk about how much fun gunplay was...sticking a gun in his submissive's mouth, pussy, ass. I told him what I felt...that it was an idiotic thing to do unless he or she were independently wealthy so I and others didn't end up paying for their fun. My opinion, my perspective. He got a might upset and the next thing you know, I was being attacked by the " any kink you want to do is o.k. as long as there's consent" group. To which my reply was...and ever will be...no, it's not. When he and his group got more vociferous and less sensible, more opinions started coming out. It happens. He was a regular poster and not a newbie but I can tell you, a newbie posting that kind of idiocy probably wouldn't have gotten a very much nicer me.

As someone else noted, it's not my job to coddle adults. Teach? Sure. But to encourage a thickheaded, possibly harmful idea? Not so much.


What wasn't SSC about his kink?

Safe? A loaded gun pushed inside a pussy...a mouth...an asshole? I don't know where you took gun safety but every gun class I ever took, from conservation class in junior high to basic training followed by sniper training in the military to a conceal-carry class taught two very important things: never point a loaded gun at someone and never assume that the safety is fail-safe. How do you see those two basic rules of SAFETY being satisfied with the behavior described?

Sane? We all have differing ideas of what constitutes sane behavior. To me, playing with a loaded gun in the matter described doesn't seem to fit but I'll concede that's my viewpoint.

Consensual: People consent to stupidity every day so again, not something I'd ever consent or agree to do with a submissive but I have to admit...I'd seriously wonder about the mental capacity of a submissive who would agree to submit to this.

I would hazard a guess that your apparent agreement with this use of a gun means we won't see you holding forth against guns on the pro-gun/anti-gun threads, right?


(in reply to GotSteel)
Profile   Post #: 184
RE: hazing new posters - 12/10/2014 3:02:30 PM   
CreativeDominant


Posts: 11032
Joined: 3/11/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: shiftyw

Ten pages

Still love soft, fluffy bottoms.

(in reply to shiftyw)
Profile   Post #: 185
RE: hazing new posters - 12/10/2014 3:06:48 PM   
InSilence


Posts: 8
Joined: 10/28/2014
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: GotSteel

I mean we're basically asking new posters to hit the ground running in the middle of a mine field,
is it at all surprising that has a tendency of not working out very well!

About this time in my argument someone's apt to make a comment about this
is just how it is. Thing is that's not actually true, I can point to examples both in
meat space and on fet of communities who are night and day different,
think about it for a second, can't all of you do the same?



I haven't drifted into this mine field for a long time.
I remember feeling like fresh bbq'd meat, wondering why I felt singled out for a humiliation skuwer (sp?).
Tail tucked I ran away after some defensive behavior.

Some of you ARE liking to be mean, sarcastic, shoving out a pile of shitty humiliation.
I figure its your nature, but NOT your right.

*rolls my eyes
9 pages and most cant admit to want to make the new poster feel like a piece of shit.

One ups-manship, superiority related to longevity on this side of CM/CS doesn't fit the
goal of disseminating information.

(in reply to GotSteel)
Profile   Post #: 186
RE: hazing new posters - 12/10/2014 3:10:19 PM   
RockaRolla


Posts: 1153
Joined: 1/20/2014
From: South Florida
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: InSilence

*rolls my eyes
9 pages and most cant admit to want to make the new poster feel like a piece of shit.

My goal is not to make the new poster feel like shit. My goal is to call the new poster on his/her shit. This is not a quality unique to CC, you'll find it throughout the internet.

I've been through that before. I didn't blame other posters for attacking the new kid. I re-examined my position and found ways in which I was wrong.

My mind on that isn't going to change because someone wanted to appeal to sympathy.

_____________________________

~Roxie

(in reply to InSilence)
Profile   Post #: 187
RE: hazing new posters - 12/10/2014 3:20:39 PM   
CreativeDominant


Posts: 11032
Joined: 3/11/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: InSilence


quote:

ORIGINAL: GotSteel

I mean we're basically asking new posters to hit the ground running in the middle of a mine field,
is it at all surprising that has a tendency of not working out very well!

About this time in my argument someone's apt to make a comment about this
is just how it is. Thing is that's not actually true, I can point to examples both in
meat space and on fet of communities who are night and day different,
think about it for a second, can't all of you do the same?



I haven't drifted into this mine field for a long time.
I remember feeling like fresh bbq'd meat, wondering why I felt singled out for a humiliation skuwer (sp?).
Tail tucked I ran away after some defensive behavior.

Some of you ARE liking to be mean, sarcastic, shoving out a pile of shitty humiliation.
I figure its your nature, but NOT your right.

*rolls my eyes
9 pages and most cant admit to want to make the new poster feel like a piece of shit.

One ups-manship, superiority related to longevity on this side of CM/CS doesn't fit the
goal of disseminating information.
And if you came in as a new poster, wanting to know what I thought about loaded gun play, I'd give you the same response I gave Got Steel.

If you came in here talking about how emotionally healthy it is for ALL submissives to live inside a cage, I'd imagine you'd find some disagreement from other submissives and a few dominants.

If you come in here asking a question about how to do fireplay, you'd most likely get quite a few serious answers.

If you come in to almost any P and R thread asking "can't we all just sit down, hug and talk it out", you'll probably find that you get a lot of "fuck, no" answers...from both sides of the spectrum.


< Message edited by CreativeDominant -- 12/10/2014 3:21:47 PM >

(in reply to InSilence)
Profile   Post #: 188
RE: hazing new posters - 12/10/2014 3:26:24 PM   
GoddessManko


Posts: 2257
Joined: 3/6/2013
From: Dante's Inferno
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: InSilence


quote:

ORIGINAL: GotSteel

I mean we're basically asking new posters to hit the ground running in the middle of a mine field,
is it at all surprising that has a tendency of not working out very well!

About this time in my argument someone's apt to make a comment about this
is just how it is. Thing is that's not actually true, I can point to examples both in
meat space and on fet of communities who are night and day different,
think about it for a second, can't all of you do the same?



I haven't drifted into this mine field for a long time.
I remember feeling like fresh bbq'd meat, wondering why I felt singled out for a humiliation skuwer (sp?).
Tail tucked I ran away after some defensive behavior.

Some of you ARE liking to be mean, sarcastic, shoving out a pile of shitty humiliation.
I figure its your nature, but NOT your right.

*rolls my eyes
9 pages and most cant admit to want to make the new poster feel like a piece of shit.

One ups-manship, superiority related to longevity on this side of CM/CS doesn't fit the
goal of disseminating information.


Agreed, LOL. But eh... communication breaks down on these types of topics. There will always be a "loophole" that can be argued to death.

_____________________________

Happy consent is the name of the game. You are my perfect Mistress. - my collared.

http://submissivemale.blogspot.com/

The Bird of Hermes is my name, eating my wings to make me tame.

(in reply to InSilence)
Profile   Post #: 189
RE: hazing new posters - 12/10/2014 3:31:56 PM   
RockaRolla


Posts: 1153
Joined: 1/20/2014
From: South Florida
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: GoddessManko


quote:

ORIGINAL: InSilence


quote:

ORIGINAL: GotSteel

I mean we're basically asking new posters to hit the ground running in the middle of a mine field,
is it at all surprising that has a tendency of not working out very well!

About this time in my argument someone's apt to make a comment about this
is just how it is. Thing is that's not actually true, I can point to examples both in
meat space and on fet of communities who are night and day different,
think about it for a second, can't all of you do the same?



I haven't drifted into this mine field for a long time.
I remember feeling like fresh bbq'd meat, wondering why I felt singled out for a humiliation skuwer (sp?).
Tail tucked I ran away after some defensive behavior.

Some of you ARE liking to be mean, sarcastic, shoving out a pile of shitty humiliation.
I figure its your nature, but NOT your right.

*rolls my eyes
9 pages and most cant admit to want to make the new poster feel like a piece of shit.

One ups-manship, superiority related to longevity on this side of CM/CS doesn't fit the
goal of disseminating information.


Agreed, LOL. But eh... communication breaks down on these types of topics. There will always be a "loophole" that can be argued to death.

Such as "who is we?"

_____________________________

~Roxie

(in reply to GoddessManko)
Profile   Post #: 190
RE: hazing new posters - 12/10/2014 4:09:55 PM   
FieryOpal


Posts: 2821
Joined: 12/8/2013
From: Maryland
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: CreativeDominant
quote:

ORIGINAL: GotSteel

What wasn't SSC about his kink?

Safe? A loaded gun pushed inside a pussy...a mouth...an asshole? I don't know where you took gun safety but every gun class I ever took, from conservation class in junior high to basic training followed by sniper training in the military to a conceal-carry class taught two very important things: never point a loaded gun at someone and never assume that the safety is fail-safe. How do you see those two basic rules of SAFETY being satisfied with the behavior described?

Sane? We all have differing ideas of what constitutes sane behavior. To me, playing with a loaded gun in the matter described doesn't seem to fit but I'll concede that's my viewpoint.

Consensual: People consent to stupidity every day so again, not something I'd ever consent or agree to do with a submissive but I have to admit...I'd seriously wonder about the mental capacity of a submissive who would agree to submit to this.

I would hazard a guess that your apparent agreement with this use of a gun means we won't see you holding forth against guns on the pro-gun/anti-gun threads, right?

In fact, anyone who handles a gun is instructed to ALWAYS ASSUME said firearm is LOADED even when you know beyond the shadow of a doubt that it isn't. You NEVER point a firearm at a human being or a part of your body. NEVER. NEVER EVER EVER.

I think somebody just painted himself into a corner. For quick reference: http://www.collarchat.com/fb.asp?m=4758505 & http://www.collarchat.com/fb.asp?m=4758434

_____________________________

Being deeply loved by someone gives you strength, while loving someone deeply gives you courage. - Lao Tzu
There is no remedy for love but to love more. - Thoreau

(in reply to CreativeDominant)
Profile   Post #: 191
RE: hazing new posters - 12/10/2014 4:15:24 PM   
GoddessManko


Posts: 2257
Joined: 3/6/2013
From: Dante's Inferno
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: RockaRolla


quote:

ORIGINAL: GoddessManko


quote:

ORIGINAL: InSilence


quote:

ORIGINAL: GotSteel

I mean we're basically asking new posters to hit the ground running in the middle of a mine field,
is it at all surprising that has a tendency of not working out very well!

About this time in my argument someone's apt to make a comment about this
is just how it is. Thing is that's not actually true, I can point to examples both in
meat space and on fet of communities who are night and day different,
think about it for a second, can't all of you do the same?



I haven't drifted into this mine field for a long time.
I remember feeling like fresh bbq'd meat, wondering why I felt singled out for a humiliation skuwer (sp?).
Tail tucked I ran away after some defensive behavior.

Some of you ARE liking to be mean, sarcastic, shoving out a pile of shitty humiliation.
I figure its your nature, but NOT your right.

*rolls my eyes
9 pages and most cant admit to want to make the new poster feel like a piece of shit.

One ups-manship, superiority related to longevity on this side of CM/CS doesn't fit the
goal of disseminating information.


Agreed, LOL. But eh... communication breaks down on these types of topics. There will always be a "loophole" that can be argued to death.

Such as "who is we?"


Nope, like


quote:

ORIGINAL: FieryOpal


quote:

ORIGINAL: CreativeDominant
quote:

ORIGINAL: GotSteel

What wasn't SSC about his kink?

Safe? A loaded gun pushed inside a pussy...a mouth...an asshole? I don't know where you took gun safety but every gun class I ever took, from conservation class in junior high to basic training followed by sniper training in the military to a conceal-carry class taught two very important things: never point a loaded gun at someone and never assume that the safety is fail-safe. How do you see those two basic rules of SAFETY being satisfied with the behavior described?

Sane? We all have differing ideas of what constitutes sane behavior. To me, playing with a loaded gun in the matter described doesn't seem to fit but I'll concede that's my viewpoint.

Consensual: People consent to stupidity every day so again, not something I'd ever consent or agree to do with a submissive but I have to admit...I'd seriously wonder about the mental capacity of a submissive who would agree to submit to this.

I would hazard a guess that your apparent agreement with this use of a gun means we won't see you holding forth against guns on the pro-gun/anti-gun threads, right?

In fact, anyone who handles a gun is instructed to ALWAYS ASSUME said firearm is LOADED even when you know beyond the shadow of a doubt that it isn't. You NEVER point a firearm at a human being or a part of your body. NEVER. NEVER EVER EVER.

I think somebody just painted himself into a corner. For quick reference: http://www.collarchat.com/fb.asp?m=4758505 & http://www.collarchat.com/fb.asp?m=4758434


I fail to see how this particular instance is even remotely applicable to

quote:

ORIGINAL: InSilence
I haven't drifted into this mine field for a long time.
I remember feeling like fresh bbq'd meat, wondering why I felt singled out for a humiliation skuwer (sp?).
Tail tucked I ran away after some defensive behavior.

Some of you ARE liking to be mean, sarcastic, shoving out a pile of shitty humiliation.
I figure its your nature, but NOT your right.

*rolls my eyes
9 pages and most cant admit to want to make the new poster feel like a piece of shit.

One ups-manship, superiority related to longevity on this side of CM/CS doesn't fit the
goal of disseminating information.





_____________________________

Happy consent is the name of the game. You are my perfect Mistress. - my collared.

http://submissivemale.blogspot.com/

The Bird of Hermes is my name, eating my wings to make me tame.

(in reply to RockaRolla)
Profile   Post #: 192
RE: hazing new posters - 12/10/2014 4:28:44 PM   
RockaRolla


Posts: 1153
Joined: 1/20/2014
From: South Florida
Status: offline 		I disagree. In my example, there was way too much of a tangent based on a question that was already answered, though not to LLB's liking. (That said, it's been well over a half hour, I'd like a response from her. *taps foot impatiently*)

The gun discussion is important, and has a relation to the post. IS claims that the "attacks" on the poster who had the gun kink (which sound more like safety warnings, though not having read that thread I'm not 100%) were unreasonable, and so there's a side-debate on whether that particular "attack" was justifiable. To say it's unrelated would be like saying that no "attack" or safety warning is warranted at any time, because we're all supposed to respect and support each other's kinks, right?

< Message edited by RockaRolla -- 12/10/2014 4:29:09 PM >

_____________________________

~Roxie

(in reply to GoddessManko)
Profile   Post #: 193
RE: hazing new posters - 12/10/2014 4:33:53 PM   
FieryOpal


Posts: 2821
Joined: 12/8/2013
From: Maryland
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: GoddessManko
quote:

ORIGINAL: FieryOpal
quote:

ORIGINAL: CreativeDominant
quote:

ORIGINAL: GotSteel

What wasn't SSC about his kink?

Safe? A loaded gun pushed inside a pussy...a mouth...an asshole? I don't know where you took gun safety but every gun class I ever took, from conservation class in junior high to basic training followed by sniper training in the military to a conceal-carry class taught two very important things: never point a loaded gun at someone and never assume that the safety is fail-safe. How do you see those two basic rules of SAFETY being satisfied with the behavior described?

Sane? We all have differing ideas of what constitutes sane behavior. To me, playing with a loaded gun in the matter described doesn't seem to fit but I'll concede that's my viewpoint.

Consensual: People consent to stupidity every day so again, not something I'd ever consent or agree to do with a submissive but I have to admit...I'd seriously wonder about the mental capacity of a submissive who would agree to submit to this.

I would hazard a guess that your apparent agreement with this use of a gun means we won't see you holding forth against guns on the pro-gun/anti-gun threads, right?

In fact, anyone who handles a gun is instructed to ALWAYS ASSUME said firearm is LOADED even when you know beyond the shadow of a doubt that it isn't. You NEVER point a firearm at a human being or a part of your body. NEVER. NEVER EVER EVER.

I think somebody just painted himself into a corner. For quick reference: http://www.collarchat.com/fb.asp?m=4758505 & http://www.collarchat.com/fb.asp?m=4758434

I fail to see how this particular instance is even remotely applicable to

quote:

ORIGINAL: InSilence

I haven't drifted into this mine field for a long time.
I remember feeling like fresh bbq'd meat, wondering why I felt singled out for a humiliation skuwer (sp?).
Tail tucked I ran away after some defensive behavior.

Some of you ARE liking to be mean, sarcastic, shoving out a pile of shitty humiliation.
I figure its your nature, but NOT your right.

*rolls my eyes
9 pages and most cant admit to want to make the new poster feel like a piece of shit.

One ups-manship, superiority related to longevity on this side of CM/CS doesn't fit the
goal of disseminating information.

Did I say it was? Did I quote that person's post? I was addressing CD's & GS's posts.

G-U-N S-A-F-E-T-Y
The Use of Firearms
The Constitutional Right of U.S. Citizens to Bear Arms in Their Defense
(...with the understanding that every citizen is entitled access to hunt game and provide food for their families so they don't starve or perish, as had happened in the Old World.)

Please try to keep up, dearie.

_____________________________

Being deeply loved by someone gives you strength, while loving someone deeply gives you courage. - Lao Tzu
There is no remedy for love but to love more. - Thoreau

(in reply to GoddessManko)
Profile   Post #: 194
RE: hazing new posters - 12/10/2014 4:57:52 PM   
GoddessManko


Posts: 2257
Joined: 3/6/2013
From: Dante's Inferno
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: FieryOpal
Did I say it was? Did I quote that person's post? I was addressing CD's & GS's posts.

G-U-N S-A-F-E-T-Y
The Use of Firearms
The Constitutional Right of U.S. Citizens to Bear Arms in Their Defense
(...with the understanding that every citizen is entitled access to hunt game and provide food for their families so they don't starve or perish, as had happened in the Old World.)

Please try to keep up, dearie.


OK, then perhaps it will one day occur to you that you haven't cornered anyone since your tangent is not remotely applicable to the OP in any way,form or fashion. In fact I don't even know why you bothered to post that but that's happening a lot today anyway. Sort of like your pointless elaboration to a point we have already both agreed is not applicable to any of this discussion. In fact, (LOL!!!), nevermind. Ensue.

< Message edited by GoddessManko -- 12/10/2014 5:16:53 PM >

_____________________________

Happy consent is the name of the game. You are my perfect Mistress. - my collared.

http://submissivemale.blogspot.com/

The Bird of Hermes is my name, eating my wings to make me tame.

(in reply to FieryOpal)
Profile   Post #: 195
RE: hazing new posters - 12/10/2014 4:59:49 PM   
GotSteel


Posts: 5871
Joined: 2/19/2008
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: FieryOpal
quote:

ORIGINAL: GotSteel
quote:

ORIGINAL: FieryOpal

a. Attending Furries conventions?

What's that supposed to mean?

Oh, the one choice that didn't resonate?

The one choice which was more cryptic.

The others were straight forward personal attacks. So I was wondering how furries fit in, especially with that emoticon. Were you making a pejorative statement about the furry lifestyle?

quote:

ORIGINAL: FieryOpal
There was a question mark. It was a kinder choice than Arranging gang bangs?

How so? Is there something wrong with arranging gangbangs? Because I have been trying to facilitate a gangbang for shifty, sadly she'll have none of it.


quote:

ORIGINAL: FieryOpal
Or Heading the Achievable Fetish & Kink Subcommittee of the FL BDSM Committee?

That sounds fun, do I get a pretentious hat?

(in reply to FieryOpal)
Profile   Post #: 196
RE: hazing new posters - 12/10/2014 5:02:07 PM   
shiftyw


Posts: 2837
Joined: 6/6/2013
From: The Shire
Status: offline 		IT IS applicable though GM.

Follow it back.

What we are all really talking about is where is the line on "hazing" vs. constructive critcism? snark vs. helpful?

I think kalisto answered it back a while ago. This is all a matter of perception.

You don't know how I'm saying this, I could be whispering it in your ear, or shouting at you and in your face...you can't tell from text, and this is where the breakdown happens online. Often times I seem "short" online, truth be told...its not how I want to come off and is usually the result of me pairing down and editing my post. Often, I edit out a personal story that I realize may be me reading too much into something because of MY perspective.

Its amazing that humans get anything done in my opinion. That ability to reason is a double edged sword I think.

(in reply to GoddessManko)
Profile   Post #: 197
RE: hazing new posters - 12/10/2014 5:04:23 PM   
RockaRolla


Posts: 1153
Joined: 1/20/2014
From: South Florida
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: shiftyw

IT IS applicable though GM.

Follow it back.

What we are all really talking about is where is the line on "hazing" vs. constructive critcism? snark vs. helpful?

I think kalisto answered it back a while ago. This is all a matter of perception.

You said it better than I could.

_____________________________

~Roxie

(in reply to shiftyw)
Profile   Post #: 198
RE: hazing new posters - 12/10/2014 5:11:23 PM   
GotSteel


Posts: 5871
Joined: 2/19/2008
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: CreativeDominant
quote:

ORIGINAL: GotSteel
quote:

ORIGINAL: CreativeDominant
There was a poster on here who loved to talk about how much fun gunplay was...sticking a gun in his submissive's mouth, pussy, ass.

What wasn't SSC about his kink?

Safe? A loaded gun pushed inside a pussy...a mouth...an asshole? I don't know where you took gun safety but every gun class I ever took, from conservation class in junior high to basic training followed by sniper training in the military to a conceal-carry class taught two very important things: never point a loaded gun at someone and never assume that the safety is fail-safe. How do you see those two basic rules of SAFETY being satisfied with the behavior described?

Before judging me on this one do keep in mind that this is your first mention that the gun was loaded, which is of course part of what I was asking.


quote:

ORIGINAL: CreativeDominant
I would hazard a guess that your apparent agreement with this use of a gun means we won't see you holding forth against guns on the pro-gun/anti-gun threads, right?

I'm not against guns, I've been teaching my girl to shoot. I am against the stand your ground laws of many states as a number of them are so atrociously written as to legalize things well beyond standing ones ground.

(in reply to CreativeDominant)
Profile   Post #: 199
RE: hazing new posters - 12/10/2014 5:17:39 PM   
ExiledTyrant


Posts: 4547
Joined: 12/9/2013
From: Exiled
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: GotSteel


Before judging me on this one do keep in mind that this is your first mention that the gun was loaded, which is of course part of what I was asking.




It is always loaded.

_____________________________

Gnothi Seauton
To lead, first follow: Aurelius, Epictetus, Descartes, Sun Tzu, to name a few.

Semper fidelis (which sometimes feels like a burden)

(in reply to GotSteel)
Profile   Post #: 200
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