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RE: hazing new posters - 12/10/2014 5:19:37 PM   
GoddessManko


Posts: 2257
Joined: 3/6/2013
From: Dante's Inferno
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: shiftyw

IT IS applicable though GM.

Follow it back.

What we are all really talking about is where is the line on "hazing" vs. constructive critcism? snark vs. helpful?

I think kalisto answered it back a while ago. This is all a matter of perception.

You don't know how I'm saying this, I could be whispering it in your ear, or shouting at you and in your face...you can't tell from text, and this is where the breakdown happens online. Often times I seem "short" online, truth be told...its not how I want to come off and is usually the result of me pairing down and editing my post. Often, I edit out a personal story that I realize may be me reading too much into something because of MY perspective.

Its amazing that humans get anything done in my opinion. That ability to reason is a double edged sword I think.


Actually, NO. Not when you are talking about "cornering someone". Unless it is "your kink factor is more extreme than mine so therefore everything you say is moot." I disagree with gun play. In fact, I don't own a fire arm. That doesn't dissolve the current discussion, nor make people like "InSilence's" perspective inconsequential.

_____________________________

Happy consent is the name of the game. You are my perfect Mistress. - my collared.

http://submissivemale.blogspot.com/

The Bird of Hermes is my name, eating my wings to make me tame.

(in reply to shiftyw)
Profile   Post #: 201
RE: hazing new posters - 12/10/2014 5:27:36 PM   
RockaRolla


Posts: 1153
Joined: 1/20/2014
From: South Florida
Status: offline 		I would think with 11 pages of discussion there is room for it to branch off in multiple places.

Doesn't mean it's drifted off topic, it means people are discussing different facets of the issue.
Doesn't mean all further comments have to be in line with one facet (especially that of a new poster on page 10 - why so fixated on that in particular anyway?)
Talking about guns in the context of one discussed kink does not invalidate IS's post.

_____________________________

~Roxie

(in reply to GoddessManko)
Profile   Post #: 202
RE: hazing new posters - 12/10/2014 5:28:17 PM   
CreativeDominant


Posts: 11032
Joined: 3/11/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: GotSteel


quote:

ORIGINAL: CreativeDominant
quote:

ORIGINAL: GotSteel
quote:

ORIGINAL: CreativeDominant
There was a poster on here who loved to talk about how much fun gunplay was...sticking a gun in his submissive's mouth, pussy, ass.

What wasn't SSC about his kink?

Safe? A loaded gun pushed inside a pussy...a mouth...an asshole? I don't know where you took gun safety but every gun class I ever took, from conservation class in junior high to basic training followed by sniper training in the military to a conceal-carry class taught two very important things: never point a loaded gun at someone and never assume that the safety is fail-safe. How do you see those two basic rules of SAFETY being satisfied with the behavior described?

Before judging me on this one do keep in mind that this is your first mention that the gun was loaded, which is of course part of what I was asking.
Given the safety rules concerning the handling of a gun, then adding in another of those first few rules( which goes a long way towards explaining why you don't point a gun at anyone)...always assume the gun is loaded, whether you think so or not...I don't see where that question comes into play. I'm not sure I'd want to be the female with a gun barrel up my pussy when the "unloaded" gun goes off. Color me strange...


quote:

ORIGINAL: CreativeDominant
I would hazard a guess that your apparent agreement with this use of a gun means we won't see you holding forth against guns on the pro-gun/anti-gun threads, right?

quote:

I'm not against guns, I've been teaching my girl to shoot. I am against the stand your ground laws of many states as a number of them are so atrociously written as to legalize things well beyond standing ones ground.
You do realize that the laws, as they are written, are the only way that the aforementioned minister could legally engage in his kink, right? Make the laws any tougher and he might be operating under sane (again, questionable) and consensual (again, questionable) but certainly not legal.

(in reply to GotSteel)
Profile   Post #: 203
RE: hazing new posters - 12/10/2014 5:28:23 PM   
shiftyw


Posts: 2837
Joined: 6/6/2013
From: The Shire
Status: offline 		InSilence, in my opinion, said some smart things...but they were not relevant to the gun play thing, from my perspective.

Can't this just go in feisty and we can all get all the fighting out of the way and stop being passive aggressive and name names?
CS THUNDERDOME!

(in reply to GoddessManko)
Profile   Post #: 204
RE: hazing new posters - 12/10/2014 5:32:47 PM   
FieryOpal


Posts: 2821
Joined: 12/8/2013
From: Maryland
Status: offline 		You attributed my name to a quote that I did not make. I'm sure it was an innocent mistake.

quote:

ORIGINAL: FieryOpal

One ups-manship, superiority related to longevity on this side of CM/CS doesn't fit the
goal of disseminating information.


quote:

ORIGINAL: GoddessManko

OK, then perhaps it will one day occur to you that you haven't cornered anyone since your tangent is not remotely applicable to the OP in any way,form or fashion. In fact I don't even know why you bothered to post that but that's happening a lot today anyway. Sort of like your pointless elaboration to a point we have already both agreed is not applicable to any of this discussion. In fact, (LOL!!!), nevermind. Ensue.

Perhaps one day it will occur to you that your post above is talking out of its ass. :p

I never said I have cornered anyone. In fact, I did not specify who I was referring to, whether it was to OP directly. My remark was directed to CD as a "high five" to him for the content of his post.
You are the one who is drawing attention to the OP and not to his posts. Since you have already spilt the milk, then I shall explain.

Tying back to my paraphrased People Who Live in Glass Houses Shouldn't Throw Stones (in so many words). Anyone who has made a spectacle of himself/herself by being anti-gun who then turns around and asks "What wasn't SSC about his kink?" has made a 180-degree about face.

The insinuation here is that as long as anybody calls what they do a kink (or a fetish), then it's all fine and dandy.
In everyday parlance, this is commonly referred to as having a double standard.

You frequent the P&R forum and post over there. I shouldn't have to connect the dots for you, but you're welcome.

_____________________________

Being deeply loved by someone gives you strength, while loving someone deeply gives you courage. - Lao Tzu
There is no remedy for love but to love more. - Thoreau

(in reply to GoddessManko)
Profile   Post #: 205
RE: hazing new posters - 12/10/2014 5:33:42 PM   
GoddessManko


Posts: 2257
Joined: 3/6/2013
From: Dante's Inferno
Status: offline 		To elaborate further, someone is into knife play. Do we suddenly swoop down and tell them their kink is "wrong"? That to me, is between D and s. As long as it is consensual, their idea of sane and safe may differ from my own. I saw a woman on the other side with not only needles through her tied-up-til-red tits, but rods through her breasts themselves. I mean, if that is a peeve for everyone, the idea of "unsafe play" I understand. But what then? Am I supposed to tell an engineer who wanted me to modify him any way I wanted that he should conform to my desires? We always talk about people with more extreme kinks as if they are the ones bombarding us with their expectations and not the other way around. Just my perspective here. As far as the gun play, I agree with all of you, however, I could only politely give my opines to this individual and move on. There's no way I am going to define for someone else what their D/s relationship should be if it works for them and the sub consents. Can we stop acting like subs are these voiceless entities with no ability to decide who they will or will not submit to? That'd be awesome.

_____________________________

Happy consent is the name of the game. You are my perfect Mistress. - my collared.

http://submissivemale.blogspot.com/

The Bird of Hermes is my name, eating my wings to make me tame.

(in reply to shiftyw)
Profile   Post #: 206
RE: hazing new posters - 12/10/2014 5:36:22 PM   
GoddessManko


Posts: 2257
Joined: 3/6/2013
From: Dante's Inferno
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: FieryOpal

You attributed my name to a quote that I did not make. I'm sure it was an innocent mistake.

quote:

ORIGINAL: FieryOpal

One ups-manship, superiority related to longevity on this side of CM/CS doesn't fit the
goal of disseminating information.


quote:

ORIGINAL: GoddessManko

OK, then perhaps it will one day occur to you that you haven't cornered anyone since your tangent is not remotely applicable to the OP in any way,form or fashion. In fact I don't even know why you bothered to post that but that's happening a lot today anyway. Sort of like your pointless elaboration to a point we have already both agreed is not applicable to any of this discussion. In fact, (LOL!!!), nevermind. Ensue.

Perhaps one day it will occur to you that your post above is talking out of its ass. :p

I never said I have cornered anyone. In fact, I did not specify who I was referring to, whether it was to OP directly. My remark was directed to CD as a "high five" to him for the content of his post.
You are the one who is drawing attention to the OP and not to his posts. Since you have already spilt the milk, then I shall explain.

Tying back to my paraphrased People Who Live in Glass Houses Shouldn't Throw Stones (in so many words). Anyone who has made a spectacle of himself/herself by being anti-gun who then turns around and asks "What wasn't SSC about his kink?" has made a 180-degree about face.

The insinuation here is that as long as anybody calls what they do a kink (or a fetish), then it's all fine and dandy.
In everyday parlance, this is commonly referred to as having a double standard.

You frequent the P&R forum and post over there. I shouldn't have to connect the dots for you, but you're welcome.


Well Fiery since you are our resident expert on everyone's lives and all things kinky, you are obviously correct. It would be a fool's errand to argue with such an individual as yourself. Then I'd have to do a double take at my IQ and ability to understand Quantum physics.
Additionally Fiery, not all of us try to "out" people based on what they think they know about them.

< Message edited by GoddessManko -- 12/10/2014 5:39:51 PM >

_____________________________

Happy consent is the name of the game. You are my perfect Mistress. - my collared.

http://submissivemale.blogspot.com/

The Bird of Hermes is my name, eating my wings to make me tame.

(in reply to FieryOpal)
Profile   Post #: 207
RE: hazing new posters - 12/10/2014 5:38:47 PM   
shiftyw


Posts: 2837
Joined: 6/6/2013
From: The Shire
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: GoddessManko

To elaborate further, someone is into knife play. Do we suddenly swoop down and tell them their kink is "wrong"? That to me, is between D and s. As long as it is consensual, their idea of sane and safe may differ from my own. I saw a woman on the other side with not only needles through her tied-up-til-red tits, but rods through her breasts themselves. I mean, if that is a peeve for everyone, the idea of "unsafe play" I understand. But what then? Am I supposed to tell an engineer who wanted me to modify him any way I wanted that he should conform to my desires? We always talk about people with more extreme kinks as if they are the ones bombarding us with their expectations and not the other way around. Just my perspective here. As far as the gun play, I agree with all of you, however, I could only politely give my opines to this individual and move on. There's no way I am going to define for someone else what their D/s relationship should be if it works for them and the sub consents. Can we stop acting like subs are these voiceless entities with no ability to decide who they will or will not submit to? That'd be awesome.


I don't tell them its wrong, but I do tell them what they are risking.

And YES...I do think some kinks are wrong, call me crazy, but my moral compass really only swings so far.

(in reply to GoddessManko)
Profile   Post #: 208
RE: hazing new posters - 12/10/2014 5:40:56 PM   
RockaRolla


Posts: 1153
Joined: 1/20/2014
From: South Florida
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: GoddessManko

To elaborate further, someone is into knife play. Do we suddenly swoop down and tell them their kink is "wrong"?
I stopped reading here.

Nobody said the kink was "wrong." They said it was extremely dangerous and recommended they not attempt unless they had the means to prepare for disaster. In this case, it involved being able to pay expensive hospital bills.


_____________________________

~Roxie

(in reply to GoddessManko)
Profile   Post #: 209
RE: hazing new posters - 12/10/2014 5:46:04 PM   
GoddessManko


Posts: 2257
Joined: 3/6/2013
From: Dante's Inferno
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: RockaRolla


quote:

ORIGINAL: GoddessManko

To elaborate further, someone is into knife play. Do we suddenly swoop down and tell them their kink is "wrong"?
I stopped reading here.

Nobody said the kink was "wrong." They said it was extremely dangerous and recommended they not attempt unless they had the means to prepare for disaster. In this case, it involved being able to pay expensive hospital bills.



Ok, but would you agree this completely differs from actual "hazing", meaning a collective bombardment of animosity as a "rite of passage"? I mean, no one except MAYBE GotSteel is asking people do things differently. But I have seen "InSilence's" posts and Kaliko's opine about the state of affairs and can't help but agree. I mean, people can get mad, tell me I'm judgmental or what have you but my perception is still that. Is it fair to say, "it would be unfortunate if people shy from these forums as "InSilence" said he did for fear of unwarranted ridicule? And welcome back Arturas! By the way, meant to say that sooner.

_____________________________

Happy consent is the name of the game. You are my perfect Mistress. - my collared.

http://submissivemale.blogspot.com/

The Bird of Hermes is my name, eating my wings to make me tame.

(in reply to RockaRolla)
Profile   Post #: 210
RE: hazing new posters - 12/10/2014 5:53:35 PM   
shiftyw


Posts: 2837
Joined: 6/6/2013
From: The Shire
Status: offline 		I think hazing is an unfortunate term.

Frankly- this thread is an example that snark and animosity can happen to us regulars too.

So "hazing" isn't exactly what I would call it. With the exception of Lookie- I doubt very much any of us would be treated with very much respect or any different if we waltzed in here and said things like "WHY CANT I FIND SOMEONE TO POOOP ON ME UNTIL I DIE." etc. etc.

To me, what is being advocated for here, isn't actually equal treatment of new posters, but better treatment.

If I said "God damn it, where are twenty dudes who want to bang me and then cut off my limbs! WHY IS THIS SO HARD. WAH WAH WAH" (thats just an example, keeping with the theme I set myself up for 10 pages ago) I think my ass would get some snark thrown my way, don't you? (You in this case is whomever is reading, not any particular "you")

(in reply to GoddessManko)
Profile   Post #: 211
RE: hazing new posters - 12/10/2014 5:55:47 PM   
GoddessManko


Posts: 2257
Joined: 3/6/2013
From: Dante's Inferno
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: shiftyw

I think hazing is an unfortunate term.

Frankly- this thread is an example that snark and animosity can happen to us regulars too.

So "hazing" isn't exactly what I would call it. With the exception of Lookie- I doubt very much any of us would be treated with very much respect or any different if we waltzed in here and said things like "WHY CANT I FIND SOMEONE TO POOOP ON ME UNTIL I DIE." etc. etc.

To me, what is being advocated for here, isn't actually equal treatment of new posters, but better treatment.

If I said "God damn it, where are twenty dudes who want to bang me and then cut off my limbs! WHY IS THIS SO HARD. WAH WAH WAH" (thats just an example, keeping with the theme I set myself up for 10 pages ago) I think my ass would get some snark thrown my way, don't you? (You in this case is whomever is reading, not any particular "you")


I get your point shifty and agreed but I really think these people have mental issues to be frank and do not attest for the overall members of the site, old or new.

_____________________________

Happy consent is the name of the game. You are my perfect Mistress. - my collared.

http://submissivemale.blogspot.com/

The Bird of Hermes is my name, eating my wings to make me tame.

(in reply to shiftyw)
Profile   Post #: 212
RE: hazing new posters - 12/10/2014 6:28:36 PM   
CreativeDominant


Posts: 11032
Joined: 3/11/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: GoddessManko

To elaborate further, someone is into knife play. Do we suddenly swoop down and tell them their kink is "wrong"? That to me, is between D and s. As long as it is consensual, their idea of sane and safe may differ from my own. I saw a woman on the other side with not only needles through her tied-up-til-red tits, but rods through her breasts themselves. I mean, if that is a peeve for everyone, the idea of "unsafe play" I understand. But what then? Am I supposed to tell an engineer who wanted me to modify him any way I wanted that he should conform to my desires? We always talk about people with more extreme kinks as if they are the ones bombarding us with their expectations and not the other way around. Just my perspective here. As far as the gun play, I agree with all of you, however, I could only politely give my opines to this individual and move on. There's no way I am going to define for someone else what their D/s relationship should be if it works for them and the sub consents. Can we stop acting like subs are these voiceless entities with no ability to decide who they will or will not submit to? That'd be awesome.
Frankly Goddess, I don't give a flying fuck whether or not somebody swoops down with me when I tell someone their kink is wrong. I explain why I think it's wrong and they can deal with it by coming up with a more rational argument or they can try throwing the "your kink is not my kink argument" my way. But...If you care to go back through the archives, you'll see I don't throw my opinion about the rightness or wrongness of something about lightly. Generally, it's reserved for things like gunplay...sexual activities with ums...mentally/emotionally/physically harmful .

If a Dominant wants to turn his submissive into a hucow and she wants to do it...why then, bless her little heart, go for it. However...as recently seen on another thread, the idea is a bit over the top for quite a few. No one said it was wrong...except for them. If a newbie submissive comes in here and says ALL submissives should bodyworship their dominant by licking the dominants asshole clean each night, I'd venture that she's going to get some disagreement over that proclamation, wouldn't you? And not just from the submissives. However...

If someone comes in here and says they make their submissive worship them by selling themselves to a different man or woman every weekend and tells us how she begs and pleads to stop, then cries in shame when it's all over, I'm going to opine that's wrong. Not just in terms of the legality but for a whole host of reasons.

Your kink may not be my kink and that's fine...But in my mind, not everything that can be done between two or more people should be.

(in reply to GoddessManko)
Profile   Post #: 213
RE: hazing new posters - 12/10/2014 7:26:48 PM   
sexyred1


Posts: 8998
Joined: 8/9/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: littleladybug


quote:

ORIGINAL: GotSteel

Wow, that's the most passive aggressive way anyone's found to call me delusional. Care to share what's so wrong with me raising awareness to promote tolerance?


Because, you know, people get their hackles up when they're called on their shit.

(oh crap, did I say that in my *outside* voice?)



If you meant me with that comment, no one called me out on anything. I speak exactly how I want to and the only one who can stop me is a Mod.

And don't worry about speaking with your "outside" voice, I am not sure anything you say is that important.

Just don't ever answer for me when a question is directed to me.

You don't speak for me.

(in reply to littleladybug)
Profile   Post #: 214
RE: hazing new posters - 12/10/2014 7:36:02 PM   
camille65


Posts: 5746
Joined: 7/11/2007
From: Austin Texas
Status: offline 		Holy smokes.

*backs out leaving no trace that she was here*

I wasn't here.

_____________________________


~Love your life! (It is the only one you'll get).




(in reply to sexyred1)
Profile   Post #: 215
RE: hazing new posters - 12/10/2014 7:37:15 PM   
GotSteel


Posts: 5871
Joined: 2/19/2008
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: FieryOpal
Anyone who has made a spectacle of himself/herself by being anti-gun who then turns around and asks "What wasn't SSC about his kink?" has made a 180-degree about face.

Um, I'm explicitly not anti-gun, pretty sure I've posted pictures of myself shooting and some of my guns before. I'm just anti-senseless killing of human beings.

quote:

ORIGINAL: FieryOpal
The insinuation here is that as long as anybody calls what they do a kink (or a fetish), then it's all fine and dandy.

I'm a humanist, as such my determinations as to fine and dandy have everything to do with harm. So non-consensual humiliation fetishes are not fine and dandy. Re-purposing objects as dildos, well as long as someone can figure out how to do it safely, *shrug* sure it's fine and dandy.

< Message edited by GotSteel -- 12/10/2014 8:06:13 PM >

(in reply to FieryOpal)
Profile   Post #: 216
RE: hazing new posters - 12/10/2014 7:51:57 PM   
sexyred1


Posts: 8998
Joined: 8/9/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: camille65

Holy smokes.

*backs out leaving no trace that she was here*

I wasn't here.


Oh...was it something I said?


(in reply to camille65)
Profile   Post #: 217
RE: hazing new posters - 12/10/2014 7:59:14 PM   
sexyred1


Posts: 8998
Joined: 8/9/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: camille65

Holy smokes.

*backs out leaving no trace that she was here*

I wasn't here.


(in reply to camille65)
Profile   Post #: 218
RE: hazing new posters - 12/10/2014 8:04:55 PM   
GotSteel


Posts: 5871
Joined: 2/19/2008
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: shiftyw
I've been very conscious about what I post since you started this whole campaign.

I don't think you need to be.

quote:

ORIGINAL: shiftyw
I don't think this place should be a fetlife directory. Do you?

I think it's a much more elegant solution than hazing.

Instead of all the time and energy it takes for what can be a multiday non-consetual humiliation scene why not spend the 30 seconds necessary to show somebody where they'll fit in? I mean it's a win, win, win scenario. Team clique gets the person to leave, we get a forum that's more pleasant to hang out in and the new poster finds out about a community where they can fit in.

I really don't see a downside.

(in reply to shiftyw)
Profile   Post #: 219
RE: hazing new posters - 12/10/2014 8:36:10 PM   
camille65


Posts: 5746
Joined: 7/11/2007
From: Austin Texas
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: sexyred1


quote:

ORIGINAL: camille65

Holy smokes.

*backs out leaving no trace that she was here*

I wasn't here.


Oh...was it something I said?




Sorry! That was a FR not being here.

I'm still not here.


_____________________________


~Love your life! (It is the only one you'll get).




(in reply to sexyred1)
Profile   Post #: 220
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