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BREAKING NEWS - 12/9/2014 5:11:49 AM   
Sanity


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The United States used harsh interrogation techniques after 9/11, including WATERBOARDING

http://news.yahoo.com/fears-backlash-us-release-cia-torture-report-023713739.html

I shit you not

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RE: BREAKING NEWS - 12/9/2014 5:50:55 AM   
Musicmystery


Posts: 30259
Joined: 3/14/2005
Status: offline 		Wow. Seems we anti-establishment tree-hugging hippie types had a point when from Nixon on when we distrusted covert government operations.

Question -- you were all for this when the Bush administration went for it. What changed for you? When did you decide it was wrong?

Or is the point that it's not wrong, and that you're happy the practice is continuing?

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RE: BREAKING NEWS - 12/9/2014 5:53:46 AM   
Lucylastic


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Sanity


The United States used harsh interrogation techniques after 9/11, including WATERBOARDING

http://news.yahoo.com/fears-backlash-us-release-cia-torture-report-023713739.html

I shit you not


Its not breaking news at all, the report has been coming for a long while....I wonder if you will even read it...or just bleat and want to deny its importance by saying it should be left in the past. You whinge about transparency, yet this ....is verboten.
Whinge away....its dangerous, why??? Because torture IS actually wrong? No that cant be it can it.
And NO one wants any american services personnel OR american hurt as result of violent backlash, no matter what side of the aisle you are.
But you cant just brush it away.



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RE: BREAKING NEWS - 12/9/2014 5:57:22 AM   
Musicmystery


Posts: 30259
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Status: offline 		...and the report is about Bush era torture. Seems he missed that.

And both Kerry and Obama didn't want it released -- exactly the opposite of making political hay of this.


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RE: BREAKING NEWS - 12/9/2014 5:58:33 AM   
Lucylastic


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Status: offline 		I didnt want to overwhelm his tenuous hold on reality

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RE: BREAKING NEWS - 12/9/2014 6:05:02 AM   
Sanity


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Lucylastic


Its not breaking news at all




I know

The king and his minions simply need a diversion from their slow motion popularity implosion, and their fawning, adoring media accomplices are all too happy to play along



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RE: BREAKING NEWS - 12/9/2014 6:06:15 AM   
Musicmystery


Posts: 30259
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Status: offline 		You really should actually read the links you post.

It doesn't say what you think it says.

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RE: BREAKING NEWS - 12/9/2014 6:07:28 AM   
Sanity


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From: Nampa, Idaho USA
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Musicmystery

You really should actually read the links you post.

It doesn't say what you think it says.


Will the king blame the riots and the embassy burnings on some poor fools' video, then jail the poor fool

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RE: BREAKING NEWS - 12/9/2014 6:10:07 AM   
Lucylastic


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Sanity


quote:

ORIGINAL: Musicmystery

You really should actually read the links you post.

It doesn't say what you think it says.


Will the king blame the riots and the embassy burnings on some poor fools' video, then jail the poor fool


And there it went....*snap*

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RE: BREAKING NEWS - 12/9/2014 6:10:27 AM   
Musicmystery


Posts: 30259
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Status: offline 		You *really* should read your link.

It has nothing to do with the fantasies in your head. In fact, quite the opposite.

You'd look a little less like a poor fool.

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RE: BREAKING NEWS - 12/9/2014 6:15:31 AM   
Sanity


Posts: 22039
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From: Nampa, Idaho USA
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Musicmystery

You *really* should read your link.

It has nothing to do with the fantasies in your head. In fact, quite the opposite.

You'd look a little less like a poor fool.


Practically every post you and crazy lucy make proves you are probably the least intelligent trolls here, incapable of discussing the topic itself and forced by low intelligence to make these sad, pitiful attacks on other posters as a meatless substitute for contributing to the discussion

This is old news, rehashed purely for political reasons and that you try to deny it and attack me seriously only makes me feel sorry for the two you

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RE: BREAKING NEWS - 12/9/2014 6:24:09 AM   
Musicmystery


Posts: 30259
Joined: 3/14/2005
Status: offline 		Actually, you're the attacker. Sorry to interject reality.

It *is* old news...that you are bringing up, and despite your tired partisan chant, in this case, if you actually *read* the link, Obama and Kerry have been protecting the Bush crowd and do not want the report released, fearing consequences for personnel. That would seem to be something you'd be happy about--except that you don't have a happy gene. You also like to pretend you like to stay on topic, yet you've entirely ignored the on-topic questions I asked in post 2.

Lucy and I have been repeatedly pointing to the content of the link, while you keep whining about "trolls," which in your mind, is apparently anyone actually reading the link instead of believing your fantasies.

Now, if you want to criticize Obama, you could join my position that these crimes absolutely should be investigated and prosecuted, that Obama is simply Bush Lite, placidly going along with the mess Bush created instead of actively dismantling it, starting with the Dept. of Homeland Theater, the "reckless and irresponsible" (Greenspan's words--a Republican Fed chair) Bush tax cuts, the structural drag of middle east wars, and the lack of serious prosecution of financial and torture crimes.

If you'd like to discuss the Bush torture issue and Obama's continued cover-up, chime in.

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RE: BREAKING NEWS - 12/9/2014 6:26:11 AM   
Lucylastic


Posts: 40310
Status: offline 		I quite clearly was on topic, covering more than you did before snapping into your ODS.
Rant on,
no one ever buys your victimhood.



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RE: BREAKING NEWS - 12/9/2014 7:56:19 AM   
Sanity


Posts: 22039
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From: Nampa, Idaho USA
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Lucylastic
And there it went....*snap*


"I... changed the law." Barack Obama

http://www.cnn.com/2014/11/25/politics/obama-hecklers-immigration-chicago/

*snap*

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RE: BREAKING NEWS - 12/9/2014 8:46:43 AM   
CreativeDominant


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Status: offline 		Obama doesn't want the report released? In the report cited in the OP, I read that Secretary Kerry expressed concern and that Obama acknowledged we tortured some people. I also read that "Obama has sought to distance the United States from past deeds and outlawed harsh interrogation techniques which he has denounced as "torture.""

I also read: "We've declassified as much of that report as we can," said (White House spokesman)Earnest.

"The president believes that on principle it's important to release that report so that people around the world and people here at home understand exactly what transpired," he added.

Feinstein told reporters Monday she wants Americans to see that "when we make mistakes we admit them... and we move on."

Could you please cite the part where it states that Obama didn't want the report released? Now, in the two articles below, there is some indication of reluctance on his part but that reluctance appears to be part of an attempt to have it both ways.

The White House acknowledged that the report could pose a “greater risk” to American installations and personnel in countries like Pakistan, Yemen, Egypt, Libya and Iraq. But it said that the government had months to plan for the reverberations from its report — indeed, years — and that those risks should not delay the release of the report by the Senate Intelligence Committee. “When would be a good time to release this report?” the White House press secretary, Josh Earnest, asked. “It’s difficult to imagine one, particularly given the painful details that will be included.”

But he added, “The president believes it is important for us to be as transparent as we possibly can about what exactly transpired, so we can just be clear to the American public and people around the world that something like this should not happen again.". From:

http://mobile.nytimes.com/2014/12/09/us/politics/white-house-and-gop-clash-over-torture-report.html?_r=0&referrer=

However, the administration's now-publicized concerns about national security also double as political cover for the Obama administration for any geopolitical fallout that occurs after the roughly 500-page executive summary becomes public. White House Press Secretary Josh Earnest told reporters Monday that the administration has been preparing key military targets and embassies for months...
Republican Senator Richard Burr, who will take the helm of the intelligence panel in the next Congress and has been opposed to the report's release, accused the White House of only making a half-hearted attempt to delay the release.

"It's dumbfounding to me how a secretary of state could call and ask for the release to be delayed and at the same time the White House press secretary on behalf of the president says there should be an expeditious release of this document," Burr said. "You can't have it both ways.". From:

http://m.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2014/12/obama-cant-win-on-the-torture-report/383565/

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RE: BREAKING NEWS - 12/9/2014 9:24:36 AM   
cloudboy


Posts: 7306
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Status: offline 		It is always tricky for the US government to admit huge mistakes, and in this case human rights violations and violations of the Geneva Convention, etc.

Occupy Islamic nations far from our shores.

Torture the locals.

Wonder why we aren't making progress on the "War on Terror."

O the opportunity cost of that $2 Trillion Dollars and lost lives poured down a hole without end.

< Message edited by cloudboy -- 12/9/2014 9:27:04 AM >

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RE: BREAKING NEWS - 12/9/2014 9:56:59 AM   
starkmatters


Posts: 5
Joined: 12/9/2014
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quote:

ORIGINAL: cloudboy

It is always tricky for the US government to admit huge mistakes, and in this case human rights violations and violations of the Geneva Convention, etc.

Occupy Islamic nations far from our shores.

Torture the locals.

Wonder why we aren't making progress on the "War on Terror."

O the opportunity cost of that $2 Trillion Dollars and lost lives poured down a hole without end.


What mistakes?

And the trolls feigning to not understand the OP sarcasm is as ludicrous as Gruber's backpeddling.

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RE: BREAKING NEWS - 12/9/2014 10:00:28 AM   
darkwanderer3305


Posts: 38
Joined: 6/2/2014
Status: offline 		Firstly, I have never supported the "war on terror". It is complete bunk.

Some unknown entity "attacks" the US (nope, I never once heard Bin Laden admit he and his cronies were responsible - and, considering they claimed everything else - I'm not falling for it).

Then, the US decides that he did it. Well, he is a member of the Royal House of Saud, not a citizen of Afghanistan. So, WTF did we attack an innocent country? Oil? Empire? Or pure bullshit?

So, we kill him. And, somewhere along the line the fake WMDs take us into Iraq where we kill Saddam. (Because big Bush didn't let Stormin Norman do it the first time we were there.)

Now we have two dead leaders.

But wait, there's more.... These two guys were our cronies. We trained and armed Bin Laden during the Soviet invasion of Afghanistan in the 80's. And, even further back in the 70s and 80s we armed and supported Saddam against the evil of Iran.

The fkd up thing is that the ONLY reason people in the middle east hate America is because after WWII we stole their land and created Israel as our satellite.

The people of this country would flip shit if another country invaded our shores, stole our land, and "created" a new country. So, I can't really blame the world for hating American "imperialism".

With all that said, I am amused by peoples' reactions to the whole torture issue.

EVERY government in history has had its own version of the "secret police". Those evil bastards have allowed empires to grow, survive and/or flourish since the beginning of time. How do they do it? Torture, theft, violence, etc. Everything you are whining about the CIA doing.

Face it, like the US's foreign policy or not, without these tactics, we would all be calling each other "comrade" in Virginia-stan and Moscow West (DC).

And, before you bitch and tell each other how bad the US has made the world - I call bullshit again. Every act of insanity perpetrated by this government (no matter who was in charge) was LEARNED!!! That's right. We learned how to be a country. We learned from England, France and Spain, and before them was Rome and Greece.

If you don't like what is going on, by all means exercise your rights and voice your opinion. But, don't slam this country for doing what EVERY country does without comment or retribution.

(If you don't believe every country does it - leave your ID at home, grab a sat phone, stick it in a backpack, and start hiking through Iran, Korean, Russia, China, or any other country in the world. All of them might not stop and "detain you". But, most of them will.)

Oh, and just for the record - trillions of dollars, thousands of lives, and a lot of shady shit could have been avoided if someone would have had the balls (*cough* GWBush) to just push a button to send one missile to turn a bit of desert into glass; instead of sending my kids into a bs war zone... js...

ok - I never monitor these things. And, I won't watch this one either. Just throwing my 2 cents into the fray.... enjoy...

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RE: BREAKING NEWS - 12/9/2014 10:03:00 AM   
Musicmystery


Posts: 30259
Joined: 3/14/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: starkmatters


quote:

ORIGINAL: cloudboy

It is always tricky for the US government to admit huge mistakes, and in this case human rights violations and violations of the Geneva Convention, etc.

Occupy Islamic nations far from our shores.

Torture the locals.

Wonder why we aren't making progress on the "War on Terror."

O the opportunity cost of that $2 Trillion Dollars and lost lives poured down a hole without end.


What mistakes?

And the trolls feigning to not understand the OP sarcasm is as ludicrous as Gruber's backpeddling.


Another new sock who joined just to come weigh in on Politics.

* yawn *

Don't you have better things to do than making new socks?

(in reply to starkmatters)
Profile   Post #: 19
RE: BREAKING NEWS - 12/9/2014 10:43:05 AM   
GoddessManko


Posts: 2257
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From: Dante's Inferno
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: cloudboy

It is always tricky for the US government to admit huge mistakes, and in this case human rights violations and violations of the Geneva Convention, etc.

Occupy Islamic nations far from our shores.

Torture the locals.

Wonder why we aren't making progress on the "War on Terror."

O the opportunity cost of that $2 Trillion Dollars and lost lives poured down a hole without end.


We differ in that I believe hunting Bin Laden down as well as violent threats who terrorize peaceful citizenry is necessary but Iraq itself was a costly and unnecessary war. Withdrawing in a responsible manner after rebuilding destroyed infrastructure would help thwart the motives of Assad and his insurgents as well as a recurrence of what caused post 1989 Soviet-Afghan war. The Taliban rebuilt the schools and taught hate after we helped them protect their sovereignty. Leaving a job half-done caused our opposition to complete it.
Here is my current worry, there is a growing divide among Americans, in regards to race and politics. You are correct in your assessment and this link shows it. President supports release due to consistence in transparent government to Bush era Interrogation tactics. Though the "leak" causes the US to increase security against a "backlash" of this report.
However there are some things I may agree with the left about and some things I may agree with the right about, I am right down the middle. How do we bridge this divide and allow Americans to listen to each other, bridge the gaps and curtail the growing unrest? Whether race, socioeconomic status or political positions? Congress shows a complete lack of willingness to compromise, is this a good thing?

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