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RE: Tribute for a FLR? - 12/20/2014 11:45:29 AM   
PeonForHer


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quote:

Hey now! Talking about a lady's knockers. For shame!


Bugger. I didn't think Brit slang was that well known across the pond.

< Message edited by PeonForHer -- 12/20/2014 11:46:22 AM >


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RE: Tribute for a FLR? - 12/20/2014 11:51:00 AM   
MissToYouRedux


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quote:

ORIGINAL: PeonForHer

quote:

Hey now! Talking about a lady's knockers. For shame!


Bugger. I didn't think Brit slang was that well known across the pond.


"Knockers", sure. "Bristols" not so much.

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Profile   Post #: 82
RE: Tribute for a FLR? - 12/20/2014 12:09:56 PM   
NookieNotes


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quote:

ORIGINAL: PeonForHer

quote:

Hey now! Talking about a lady's knockers. For shame!


Bugger. I didn't think Brit slang was that well known across the pond.


I'm a dirty-minded pervert and I love words...

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Profile   Post #: 83
RE: Tribute for a FLR? - 12/20/2014 12:36:27 PM   
xrampage101


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I personally think you were being extremely pedantic on purpose and deliberately cross examining everything I write and taking everything out of context. If you don’t agree with something, you automatically call it a fallacy. The straw man syndrome comes to mind:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Straw_man

Nuances? There you go again, take everything I say out of context and writing an answer that doesn't fit the debate, so you can gain a milestone victory. I didn't realise this was a English lesson, I thought the topic of discussion was called 'Tribute for a FLR':

I respond; as in, I responded to your post
I react; as in, I reacted to your unfounded criticism.

According to the Collin’s dictionary there are four outcomes:
Respond (verb)

1. to state or utter (something) in reply
2. (intransitive) to act in reply; react ⇒ to respond by issuing an invitation
3. (intransitive) foll by to to react favourably ⇒ this patient will respond to treatment
4. an archaic word for correspond

Quote: 'You think they should follow YOUR moral code'.
In my Answer: 'At the same time, I still think people should follow 'A' moral code. As in, 'A' moral code. This doesn't denote possession.

If patronising me gives you a sense of importance or superiority over me, by persistently scrutinising and misinterpreting all my comments, then I hope you have achieved your objective. I could discover more flaws in your arguments, but I don’t have the time, energy or inclination. I wish you love and good health.

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Profile   Post #: 84
RE: Tribute for a FLR? - 12/20/2014 1:21:08 PM   
NookieNotes


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quote:

ORIGINAL: xrampage101

I personally think you were being extremely pedantic on purpose and deliberately cross examining everything I write and taking everything out of context. If you don’t agree with something, you automatically call it a fallacy.


Everything was right there, in the context YOU put it in. I use quotes fr that reason, and except for a few points you made that I had no response to, left everything intact.

quote:

The straw man syndrome comes to mind:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Straw_man


I did not set up anything for you. Everything I responded to was yours.

quote:

Nuances? There you go again, take everything I say out of context and writing an answer that doesn't fit the debate, so you can gain a milestone victory. I didn't realise this was a English lesson, I thought the topic of discussion was called 'Tribute for a FLR':


It is. I gave you the definition I was using, because I felt you were not using the same definition I was to reply to me.

quote:

I respond; as in, I responded to your post
I react; as in, I reacted to your unfounded criticism.


I did not criticize you at all. I was quite liking our exchange and you.

quote:

Quote: 'You think they should follow YOUR moral code'.
In my Answer: 'At the same time, I still think people should follow 'A' moral code. As in, 'A' moral code. This doesn't denote possession.


I know how you wrote it. I quote it. I misstated my response. It should have been, "Your writing makes it seem as if you think they have no moral code, when what they do not have is your moral code, and it seems that is what is upsetting you.

quote:

If patronising me gives you a sense of importance or superiority over me, by persistently scrutinising and misinterpreting all my comments, then I hope you have achieved your objective. I could discover more flaws in your arguments, but I don’t have the time, energy or inclination. I wish you love and good health.


I was not patronising you in any way. My deepest apologies for making you feel that I was.

This:

quote:

ORIGINAL: NookieNotes

Nah. I don't know you well enough to think you're a jerk. I just think your presentation of your thoughts is logically faulty.

Nothing more.

*grins*

Thank you for giving me a good reason to procrastinate on some writing I'm doing today. LOL!



Was meant to convey that I was specifically focusing on your thoughts here, and not on you at all. As I said above, I was quite liking your feistiness.

So, really, you can attack my points all you want, because I would never take that personally or hold it against you. But I'm sorry whatever I did made you feel that I was attacking you personally.

I enjoy the debate far too much. When you broke down into numbers, that was like catnip to me.

I'll do my best to not take that bait in the future. I don't mean to hurt anyone.

Again, xrampage101, I deeply apologize for upsetting you.

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Profile   Post #: 85
RE: Tribute for a FLR? - 12/20/2014 1:25:39 PM   
PeonForHer


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quote:

"Knockers", sure. "Bristols" not so much.


i live in Bristol and even the Bristolians don't know what 'Bristols' are. That's pure cockney rhyming slang - it doesn't seem to have travelled at all.

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RE: Tribute for a FLR? - 12/20/2014 2:02:08 PM   
xrampage101


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I don't know what you mean by catnip and bait. Nonetheless, I am deeply sorry. Perhaps I was being a bit obnoxious. I seriously don't want to hurt anyone's feelings. In my mind, you are not just a random person in a forum, you are unique with a personality and feelings. This is important to me, so I definitely don't want to offend you.

Maybe I am a judgemental jerk at times. I must admit, you are a fascinating person, with a good heart, intelligence and good looks too. I wish the same could be said about me.

Whilst on Youtube the other day, I watched an interesting documentary about a guy who tried to change his life around.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XBTgqJb2w1E

In my life, I'm trying to neglect my fetishes and think more about others.

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Profile   Post #: 87
RE: Tribute for a FLR? - 12/20/2014 2:09:54 PM   
xrampage101


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I sent a reply to the wrong person by mistake. It was meant for you, sorry.

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Profile   Post #: 88
RE: Tribute for a FLR? - 12/20/2014 2:21:15 PM   
MissToYouRedux


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quote:

ORIGINAL: PeonForHer

quote:

"Knockers", sure. "Bristols" not so much.


i live in Bristol and even the Bristolians don't know what 'Bristols' are. That's pure cockney rhyming slang - it doesn't seem to have travelled at all.


I blame Jonathan Gash and Lovejoy mysteries then. lol

But actually when I was in Holland, English guys were using it in a conversation around me, and one of them shushed the others saying, "There's a woman here." The response was, "She doesn't know what what it means", and I had the pleasure of their discomfiture proving them wrong.

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RE: Tribute for a FLR? - 12/20/2014 2:32:08 PM   
NookieNotes


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You didn't hurt my feelings. I was concerned that I'd hurt yours.

I enjoy the debate. right or wrong, I love it. I love logic, too. (I should fully disclose, I grew up with a philosophy professor. Logic and discussion is like mother's milk to me.)

And, today I was writing. I'm on a deadline, and I used the discussion to distract my mind, so when I got back to writing, I was fresh.

So, when I said catnip, I mean that I have a hard time avoiding lists of things I can respond to. They are so neat and orderly, and, well, logical! LOL!

Thank you for the compliments. I am still sorry I upset you or made you feel I was picking on or patronizing you.

*smiles*

Friends?

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Profile   Post #: 90
RE: Tribute for a FLR? - 12/20/2014 8:15:02 PM   
FieryOpal


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quote:

ORIGINAL: xrampage101

Don’t worry, I’m kind of use to people picking on me. Story of my life.

Well, you did list "Objectification."
Seriously, though, but you were quite specific as to costs for procuring & services rendered, etc., and so you received specific replies from me (and from others).

I have pointed out in the past that there are plenty of subs with a BBW fetish. (I've read that 1 out of 10 vanilla men prefer larger women. There seem to be more than that with male subs.) I have been accused of being a BBW.

I don't speak out against the concept of tribute, not much anti-financial domination (if that's their thing), nor against Pro-Dommes themselves, just the fact that there are sub clients who get habituated by retaining control and working off a BDSM menu or having their fantasy scripts followed, then expect a lifestyle Domme to cater to their kinks & fetishes. I have been accused of being a Fin-Domme.
Truthfully, I'm glad that there are Dommes who provide BDSM services legitimately (speaking transactionally here, not legally). It helps weed out those men who are not relationship-oriented or not sincere about seeking a D/s relationship dynamic (whether already married or not, but definitely those who are married cheaters).

I have also heard Dommes say (in my former FemDom group & on the Boards here) that they will bring up tribute for another reason. One is to get rid of an obnoxious, pushy sub who can't take NO for an answer, who will then hightail it in record time, never to be heard from again. And yes, some do it as a test of sincerity. I personally don't go this route because if I'm not interested, I will say so. I screen in other ways. If I suspect I'm dealing with a DO-ME sub or with a brat (either sub or switch), I give ways for that contender to redeem himself (not as a test and not with tribute, but as an opportunity). Three strikes and he's out of the Under Consideration ballpark.

It is entirely possible that this Domme of which you speak had ascertained that you (not saying this is true of you personally) just wanted free Topping and/or casual kinky sex, so she had decided she wasn't interested. She doesn't sound as if she were a BDSM provider nor a semi-pro. This may have been her way of testing you before giving you the brush off. It is also possible that if you had demonstrated generosity of spirit and a sincere desire for D/s, she may have wanted to consider you as D/s partnership material. You would have still had to prove yourself worthy of getting collared in order to have sub partner privileges. You have made it clear that D/s as a collared sub is not what you were after, just (free) NSA kinky sex (from her perspective) with a play partner.

quote:

ORIGINAL: xrampage101

I think we all have fantasies, which I don’t consider to be a script.

Sure it is. It's a script or basic outline to follow. I will incorporate a real-life scenario (not mine) with a few of your other elements. ("You" is generically used for emphasis.)
-- You want a Domme to be decked out in fetish gear/apparel befitting your fantasy image.
-- You want a Domme to act assertive-aggressive and to "force" you to do things while smacking you with her riding crop.
-- You probably have a preference for what color/type of stilletos (x-inches high) or (black leather) boots she wears. You see yourself acting all slavish as she orders you to kiss her feet.
-- You want to be restrained while she inserts a buttplug, tramples you, makes you beg, does T&D, then sits on your face.
-- You imagine her saying certain things to you that get you aroused. <Insert verbal humiliation phrases here, as well as bitch-slapping and hair-pulling.>
-- You see yourself handcuffed to the bidet while she threatens you not to move while she shaves your pubic hair and genital region, hoses you off, and then starts objectifying you further with anal play.
-- And/or you see yourself getting spanked, and then getting objectified with ass play. Part of your "aftercare" is getting to show your appreciation for your correction by performing oral worship upon her.
-- You assume that all of this is what SHE really wants as much as, or more than, you do. She's doing all the work and you are being a (lazy) receiving bottom.

What part of the above is a give-and-take? When are you being a considerate, attentive, and passionate lover? When are you in the headspace other than being a Dominant woman's bitch, of actually servicing HER needs, wants, and desires?

quote:

ORIGINAL: xrampage101

Judging by your profile, in the left hand interests column, you are supposedly into ass play, blind folds, bondage, hair pulling, spanking etc… just to name a few, so I don’t really get your point.

My profile is kept current. You say yours isn't. That's one difference. I also don't get your point. Does this mean that I will do these things to/with just any male sub who is also into them? No, absolutely not. (Btw, I only list Ass Play & Spanking as Likes, to filter out anal sluts and spanking sluts. I don't even list Strap-Ons at all.)

Your subsequent posts have clarified your position on various matters. Again, addressing the content of your post(s) was never about you personally or calling your own morals into question. If you didn't find some responses helpful, then so be it.

Which reminds me, whatever happened to the OP of this thread? I don't blame him if he got overwhelmed by these divergent and tangential discussion topics.

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RE: Tribute for a FLR? - 12/23/2014 9:31:16 AM   
RumpusParable


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quote:

ORIGINAL: MartianMan9

Should male subs/slaves have to tribute to serve in a FLR? I see that there are plenty of females on her complaining about how this site is full of men who are not real and are full of BS. I don't disagree that there are immature men on here, it has been my experience that the majority of the female dommes on here want some form of payment or "Tribute" as its called to even talk to them. First of all, I have no problem with Pro-Dommes. It is a professional that I'm sure many people do honest and respectfully. Subs/slaves mutually agree to pay for play. Theres really no FLR there but more of a business transaction.
However, there are plenty of females who claim they are looking to start a female led relationship with a slave, but are not interested in establishing a relationship at all. A FLR requires both trust and respect. I would never be able to genuinely submit to another if I didn't know and trust them. Many women on here are very quick to ask for you to tribute by satisfying their amazon wishlist or logging into their website that requires your credit card information for verification. Many of these women are not interested in taking the time to get to know these potential slaves or see if they get along with them or connect. They want to know if you will tribute and how much you will tribute. That wouldn't be the problem if these women weren't the same ones complaining about how males slaves on here are not serious and are fully of crap. Or if these women identified themselves as Pro-dommes. Thats my pitch and I'm getting off my soap box and putting it away. I just wanted to know what everyone else feels about the matter. Thanks


Should they have to? No, not in my opinion, in the generalized way. Yes, if that particular female dominat they want requires that in her relationships.

It's the same as, say, drinking two liters of water a day: Should a male sub have to do so to be in an FLR? Generally, no. To be with a dom who requires that? Yes.

As to the entire second paragraph: welcome to what we female dominants deal with, too. Males who just want X for themselves and call themselves subs because they'll get it if they fake it or at least open with that. Males who claim they want an FLR when they don't genuinely want a relationship at all and are, again, just trying to get something (insert their desire here) from females and will lie.

How do you know they are all the same females? Ive been annoyed a few times and, while I don't generalize it to the entirety of male sub existence, have griped over the false acting males I've dealt with now and then.

I include financial play and/or domination in some of my D/s relationships but not in any of the form that you describe. For me it's sceneing together or part of a real relationship of some type. Same as having a sub scrub my bathroom floor or punching them.

I'm also a pro-Dom and pornographer who engages in the kink with those who want and enjoy it.

But it all comes down to this, answering both paragraphs of your questions and statements:

Different people want different things in their relationships, doms and subs both. Not everyone will like or agree with whatever that setup is.

Some people, doms or subs, will lie or try to manipulate others to get what they really want.

And both doms and subs have to wade through incompatibilities and liars to find someone who truly wants what we want in a mutually satisfying partnership.

And assuming all of one group your not happy with is all of another group you're not happy with is silly.

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Profile   Post #: 92
RE: Tribute for a FLR? - 12/23/2014 2:48:06 PM   
LookieNoNookie


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quote:

ORIGINAL: MartianMan9

Should male subs/slaves have to tribute to serve in a FLR? I see that there are plenty of females on her complaining about how this site is full of men who are not real and are full of BS. I don't disagree that there are immature men on here, it has been my experience that the majority of the female dommes on here want some form of payment or "Tribute" as its called to even talk to them. First of all, I have no problem with Pro-Dommes. It is a professional that I'm sure many people do honest and respectfully. Subs/slaves mutually agree to pay for play. Theres really no FLR there but more of a business transaction.
However, there are plenty of females who claim they are looking to start a female led relationship with a slave, but are not interested in establishing a relationship at all. A FLR requires both trust and respect. I would never be able to genuinely submit to another if I didn't know and trust them. Many women on here are very quick to ask for you to tribute by satisfying their amazon wishlist or logging into their website that requires your credit card information for verification. Many of these women are not interested in taking the time to get to know these potential slaves or see if they get along with them or connect. They want to know if you will tribute and how much you will tribute. That wouldn't be the problem if these women weren't the same ones complaining about how males slaves on here are not serious and are fully of crap. Or if these women identified themselves as Pro-dommes. Thats my pitch and I'm getting off my soap box and putting it away. I just wanted to know what everyone else feels about the matter. Thanks


Your friend: Paragraphs.

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Profile   Post #: 93
RE: Tribute for a FLR? - 12/28/2014 4:30:34 PM   
BecomingV


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quote:

ORIGINAL: MartianMan9

Should male subs/slaves have to tribute to serve in a FLR?


Let's flip that question.

Should female subs/slaves have to tribute to serve in a MLR?

Break it down... "have to." No, BDSM is all about consensual agreements, dynamics and relationships. There is no "have to" except as a fantasy which is played out as if prior consent had not already been bestowed upon the Dom by the submissive or slave. It's called "consensual non-consent" but it is actually a form of extended consent.

Tribute -

Now this gets tricky. Do we refer to the tribute of the time and lost earnings that a female submissive may sacrifice to profit her Dominant? Do we refer to the free labor, intellectual property and services that a Dom accepts as his due?

Please understand that BDSM exists under the umbrella of the vanilla world where male supremacists run rampant.

Calling the gains, profits or expansions that Doms receive as a result of the efforts of their submissives... nothing... resounding silence there

Yet also calling the gains, profits or expansions that Dommes receive as a result of the efforts of their submissives - Tributes, is just another way of disrespecting women! Period.

Why is that a true assertion?

Because the Domme is being questioned, reviewed and categorized when she profits financially, while the Dom is treated with silent regard, unquestioned as to how he profits financially, because sexist society deems him to be already entitled to profit from his lover/wife/submissive/slave.

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Profile   Post #: 94
RE: Tribute for a FLR? - 12/28/2014 4:33:08 PM   
LiveSpark


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quote:

ORIGINAL: BecomingV


quote:

ORIGINAL: MartianMan9

Should male subs/slaves have to tribute to serve in a FLR?


Let's flip that question.

Should female subs/slaves have to tribute to serve in a MLR?

Break it down... "have to." No, BDSM is all about consensual agreements, dynamics and relationships. There is no "have to" except as a fantasy which is played out as if prior consent had not already been bestowed upon the Dom by the submissive or slave. It's called "consensual non-consent" but it is actually a form of extended consent.

Tribute -

Now this gets tricky. Do we refer to the tribute of the time and lost earnings that a female submissive may sacrifice to profit her Dominant? Do we refer to the free labor, intellectual property and services that a Dom accepts as his due?

Please understand that BDSM exists under the umbrella of the vanilla world where male supremacists run rampant.

Calling the gains, profits or expansions that Doms receive as a result of the efforts of their submissives... nothing... resounding silence there

Yet also calling the gains, profits or expansions that Dommes receive as a result of the efforts of their submissives - Tributes, is just another way of disrespecting women! Period.

Why is that a true assertion?

Because the Domme is being questioned, reviewed and categorized when she profits financially, while the Dom is treated with silent regard, unquestioned as to how he profits financially, because sexist society deems him to be already entitled to profit from his lover/wife/submissive/slave.



And all that might be true if it weren't for the fact that it's the dommes themselves who use that term. Nice theory though

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Profile   Post #: 95
RE: Tribute for a FLR? - 12/28/2014 9:53:51 PM   
CreativeDominant


Posts: 11032
Joined: 3/11/2006
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quote:

ORIGINAL: LiveSpark


quote:

ORIGINAL: BecomingV


quote:

ORIGINAL: MartianMan9

Should male subs/slaves have to tribute to serve in a FLR?


Let's flip that question.

Should female subs/slaves have to tribute to serve in a MLR?

Break it down... "have to." No, BDSM is all about consensual agreements, dynamics and relationships. There is no "have to" except as a fantasy which is played out as if prior consent had not already been bestowed upon the Dom by the submissive or slave. It's called "consensual non-consent" but it is actually a form of extended consent.

Tribute -

Now this gets tricky. Do we refer to the tribute of the time and lost earnings that a female submissive may sacrifice to profit her Dominant? Do we refer to the free labor, intellectual property and services that a Dom accepts as his due?

Please understand that BDSM exists under the umbrella of the vanilla world where male supremacists run rampant.

Calling the gains, profits or expansions that Doms receive as a result of the efforts of their submissives... nothing... resounding silence there

Yet also calling the gains, profits or expansions that Dommes receive as a result of the efforts of their submissives - Tributes, is just another way of disrespecting women! Period.

Why is that a true assertion?

Because the Domme is being questioned, reviewed and categorized when she profits financially, while the Dom is treated with silent regard, unquestioned as to how he profits financially, because sexist society deems him to be already entitled to profit from his lover/wife/submissive/slave.



And all that might be true if it weren't for the fact that it's the dommes themselves who use that term. Nice theory though

Have to say I agree wit LiveSpark.

I've heard this argument before about how we male dominants "profit" off our female submissive and call it nothing while, when the female dominant does, its called tribute...as a slam to female dominance. You've got a screw loose in your theory...

First. I make a decent living. I work...always have. My mother worked. Every woman I've been involved with worked. If I want to enjoy companionship...and she does too...why should I be the only one working? If I work, everybody works. That's not profit, that's you being an adult. Make more than I do? Contribute your share of the expenses...more IF you want...and keep the rest. But you will work.

There's been this discussion before...whether female sub's pay a tribute as compared to male sub's that did. While there's various beliefs about that, once a basic definition of tribute has been laid out, it had nothing to do with the submissive partner's work.

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Profile   Post #: 96
RE: Tribute for a FLR? - 12/29/2014 5:22:18 AM   
NookieNotes


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Yeah, I have to agree with CD and LiveSpark, here.

There is a difference, IMO, between tribute and "sharing/controlling wealth within a live-in arrangement."

Tribute is money or gifts "paid" by the submissive in exchange for time and attention.

My controlling the money of my Pet, were we to live together, would be a part of the relationship we have created without payments.

I have yet to meet a male dom who demands tribute of any sort to meet or create a relationship. I'm not saying they do not exist, but I have yet to meet one or encounter a profile that suggests it.

I have met many male doms who control the finances once a relationship has been established. But again, male or female dominant, I don't see this as tribute. No mare than one of a vanilla couple controlling the finances is.

Frankly, there is a word like "tribute" for a very specific reason.

And I personally have nothing against it. If a woman wants it, she can require it. If a man wants to give it, he can make that choice as well. Not my style, but whatever floats boats, and suchlike.

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Profile   Post #: 97
RE: Tribute for a FLR? - 12/29/2014 9:00:49 AM   
CreativeDominant


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Of course...me being the awesome Monster I am...receives tributes without asking. ~nods and goes into Domly-Dom Monster stance~



< Message edited by CreativeDominant -- 12/29/2014 9:37:09 AM >

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Profile   Post #: 98
RE: Tribute for a FLR? - 12/29/2014 3:28:23 PM   
LiveSpark


Posts: 808
Joined: 12/25/2014
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quote:

ORIGINAL: PeonForHer

quote:

Hey now! Talking about a lady's knockers. For shame!


Bugger. I didn't think Brit slang was that well known across the pond.


Speaking for myself I'm fluent so I can translate as necessary.

_____________________________

I've been here as MontrealPhoenix, zephyr and
TheFireWithinMe.

I also have the sarcasm gene which is NOT to be taken seriously.

If you fall I'll always be there to catch you ~ Floor

(in reply to PeonForHer)
Profile   Post #: 99
RE: Tribute for a FLR? - 12/29/2014 5:30:36 PM   
LookieNoNookie


Posts: 12216
Joined: 8/9/2008
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: MartianMan9

Should male subs/slaves have to tribute to serve in a FLR? I see that there are plenty of females on her complaining about how this site is full of men who are not real and are full of BS. I don't disagree that there are immature men on here, it has been my experience that the majority of the female dommes on here want some form of payment or "Tribute" as its called to even talk to them. First of all, I have no problem with Pro-Dommes. It is a professional that I'm sure many people do honest and respectfully. Subs/slaves mutually agree to pay for play. Theres really no FLR there but more of a business transaction.
However, there are plenty of females who claim they are looking to start a female led relationship with a slave, but are not interested in establishing a relationship at all. A FLR requires both trust and respect. I would never be able to genuinely submit to another if I didn't know and trust them. Many women on here are very quick to ask for you to tribute by satisfying their amazon wishlist or logging into their website that requires your credit card information for verification. Many of these women are not interested in taking the time to get to know these potential slaves or see if they get along with them or connect. They want to know if you will tribute and how much you will tribute. That wouldn't be the problem if these women weren't the same ones complaining about how males slaves on here are not serious and are fully of crap. Or if these women identified themselves as Pro-dommes. Thats my pitch and I'm getting off my soap box and putting it away. I just wanted to know what everyone else feels about the matter. Thanks


There are soooooooo many reasons I want to interject here....but....I won't.

(in reply to MartianMan9)
Profile   Post #: 100
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