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RE: A Society Of Bystanders - 12/30/2014 9:40:57 AM

Zonie63

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quote:

Posse comitatus

Every time I read or hear this phrase, I keep thinking of G.D. Spradlin in the movie Tank

"Did you call me a pussy communist?"

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RE: A Society Of Bystanders - 12/30/2014 10:27:48 AM

Zonie63

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quote:

ORIGINAL: DemonicGynoid

I would like to point out that I, myself, do NOT think we should get rid of the police, but rather put them at a higher standard. make sure they know they serve us, not the other way around.

I agree, although the police are often a reflection of the local politicians. The police don't serve "us" directly. They serve the politicians who command them, and the politicians are supposed to serve us.

One thing I would note is that, with so many people out there with their cellphones and mini-cameras, along with a rise in video surveillance overall, there have been more instances of police being caught on film getting out of line. There was a case a few years ago where these guards from the county jail were out at a bar drinking after their shift, and at some point, they just started beating up other patrons at random - without any provocation or any particular reason. They didn't realize they were on camera.

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RE: A Society Of Bystanders - 12/30/2014 11:19:53 AM

DaddySatyr

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Police departments are -in-and-of-themselves- a problematic idea, from the very beginning.

By-and-large, police departments were presented to us as the people that were going to make having our own protection obsolete because the policemen were going to keep us safe from crime. That's laughable, on its face.

Police departments have always been after-the-fact organizations which, primarily are charged with investigation and apprehension of criminals that have already committed their crimes. Under our system of justice, that makes sense. We can't have cops going around, rousting people because they might break the law.

Certainly, having a visible police presence will deter some crimes, at that particular moment but the bad guys will just ply their trade at a later time or in a different place (one of the reasons for crime, leaving the cities).

So, cops have never been able to "keep us safe". There's a fundamental disconnect with that kind of thinking. It can't be done.

Of course, there are always going to be some who insist that it is better for John Q. Citizen to just take his lumps from the bad guys and let the cops catch the bad guys. Most often, they don't get caught.

That brings us back to the idea of each one of us being responsible for our own safety and possibly for the safety of our neighbors. But, wait! We've already abdicated that ability at the behest of those knights in shiny (blue) armor.

Just remember: When that scumbag is holding a gun to your face, demanding money or when he's already got you tied up and is about rape your wife, seconds count. In those instances, the police are only minutes away. Good luck.

Michael

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RE: A Society Of Bystanders - 12/30/2014 11:24:58 AM

Musicmystery

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I can't think of anyone, anywhere, anytime, who said what you claim here, that police keep us completely safe. No that this should be the standard -- perfectionist fallacy. Nothing I do is perfect...should I stop sleeping, eating, driving, working....?

Rather, as you acknowledge, the police help deter crime, reduce it, and apprehend criminals.

< Message edited by Musicmystery -- 12/30/2014 11:26:21 AM >

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RE: A Society Of Bystanders - 12/30/2014 1:08:25 PM

BamaD

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Fr

Never mind

< Message edited by BamaD -- 12/30/2014 1:14:07 PM >

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RE: A Society Of Bystanders - 12/30/2014 1:09:24 PM

Musicmystery

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So much for "everyone is in the militia."

You need to get your story straight, son.

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RE: A Society Of Bystanders - 12/30/2014 1:26:42 PM

mnottertail

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Yeah, nutsuckers are problematic, ideas are problematic, the second is problematic, stop signs are problematic, the military is problematic, amendments are problematic............

we converge on problematicism.

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RE: A Society Of Bystanders - 12/30/2014 4:42:50 PM

Hillwilliam

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quote:

ORIGINAL: DemonicGynoid

quote:

ORIGINAL: slvemike4u

Who are these people who suggest we get rid of the police ?
I never met one of these people myself
On its face the sentiment is ridiculous .

People who have been victims of police corruption or incompetence.

I have been a victim of both and don't share the sentiment.

Instead, I say let's have the police stop protecting those who besmirch the badge.

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RE: A Society Of Bystanders - 12/30/2014 4:58:49 PM

LiveSpark

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Hillwilliam

quote:

ORIGINAL: DemonicGynoid

quote:

ORIGINAL: slvemike4u

Who are these people who suggest we get rid of the police ?
I never met one of these people myself
On its face the sentiment is ridiculous .

People who have been victims of police corruption or incompetence.

I have been a victim of both and don't share the sentiment.

Instead, I say let's have the police stop protecting those who besmirch the badge.

Exactly. It makes me nuts that (at least here) police are investigated by police. No surprise they're found innocent and aren't sanctioned. Every once in a while there's talk of a committee consisting of non-cops to investigate incidents involving the police but nothing ever seems to come of it.

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RE: A Society Of Bystanders - 12/30/2014 5:38:32 PM

BamaD

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quote:

ORIGINAL: LiveSpark

quote:

ORIGINAL: Hillwilliam

quote:

ORIGINAL: DemonicGynoid

quote:

ORIGINAL: slvemike4u

Who are these people who suggest we get rid of the police ?
I never met one of these people myself
On its face the sentiment is ridiculous .

People who have been victims of police corruption or incompetence.

I have been a victim of both and don't share the sentiment.

Instead, I say let's have the police stop protecting those who besmirch the badge.

Exactly. It makes me nuts that (at least here) police are investigated by police. No surprise they're found innocent and aren't sanctioned. Every once in a while there's talk of a committee consisting of non-cops to investigate incidents involving the police but nothing ever seems to come of it.

Actually there are a number of places with civilian review boards.
Unfortunately most calls for outside investigations seem to want anti police people to run them, thus we would trade whitewashing (in some cases) for railroading in most.
I would not argue with the state police investigation local shootings.
Did you know that most cops call internal affairs (the people who usually investigate these things) headhunters because they only feel like they are doing there job if they "get" cops?

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Government ranges from a necessary evil to an intolerable one. Thomas Paine

People don't believe they can defend themselves because they have guns, they have guns because they believe they can defend themselves.

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Post #: 90

RE: A Society Of Bystanders - 1/5/2015 2:01:46 PM

LordIgnoble

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Repeated post

< Message edited by LordIgnoble -- 1/5/2015 2:07:13 PM >

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RE: A Society Of Bystanders - 1/5/2015 2:03:48 PM

LordIgnoble

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Sanity

quote:

ORIGINAL: Musicmystery

quote:

most people would rather stand there and film an attack and post it on Youtube than help the person who is being attacked

What absolute rubbish. If you want to claim this represents 51% of people, prove it.

Most big city people, probably. Blue people...

Not saying this represents a statistical majority, or that it would apply to every situation. There is however, an observed psychological phenomenon known as the bystander effect. Basically it is a situation where a group of people stand by and watch horrible things happen and do nothing about it.

bystander effect

the notable examples are quite illuminating and disturbing.

< Message edited by LordIgnoble -- 1/5/2015 2:06:14 PM >

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RE: A Society Of Bystanders - 1/5/2015 11:44:56 PM

TheHeretic

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quote:

ORIGINAL: DemonicGynoid

OK seriously why do people always assume im a troll. Its so annoying.

That's just Mike. He's a turd who demonizes and dehumanizes those who don't share his bigotries, then gets all butt-hurt when it is suggested that some might be completely ok with hearing that he died in a car fire. Nobody worth worrying about.

Just briefly to the OP though, don't confuse the right to firearms with the right to defend yourself and your home. A pump action shotgun may offer an intruder the courtesy of a final warning, but clubs and kitchen knives are found in a broad majority of American homes.

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RE: A Society Of Bystanders - 1/6/2015 12:17:07 AM

DaddySatyr

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quote:

ORIGINAL: TheHeretic

A pump action shotgun may offer an intruder the courtesy of a final warning, but clubs and kitchen knives are found in a broad majority of American homes.

I haven't been able to play ball at the level I used to for a few years, now. I haven't wanted to have a firearm in the house for about ten years.

I have a nice, used, Louisville Slugger, right outside my bedroom door.

Who wants to play some fungo?

Michael

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RE: A Society Of Bystanders - 1/6/2015 9:04:51 AM

kdsub

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quote:

I have a nice, used, Louisville Slugger, right outside my bedroom door.

I've a pump shotgun now I sold all the others years ago... but I also frequently have an eight year old grandson spending time here so I use a receiver cable and lock and I keep the shells in another room to the back of the top shelf of a high closet...SO...it is of no use in home defense... I'll just depend on good locks and a phone by the bed for the police... who in my town respond within 5 minutes anywhere in the limits.

It will have to do.

Butch

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RE: A Society Of Bystanders - 1/6/2015 9:18:57 AM

BamaD

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quote:

ORIGINAL: kdsub

quote:

I have a nice, used, Louisville Slugger, right outside my bedroom door.

I've a pump shotgun now I sold all the others years ago... but I also frequently have an eight year old grandson spending time here so I use a receiver cable and lock and I keep the shells in another room to the back of the top shelf of a high closet...SO...it is of no use in home defense... I'll just depend on good locks and a phone by the bed for the police... who in my town respond within 5 minutes anywhere in the limits.

It will have to do.

Butch

Last time I called 911 it took 20 min for them to get there.
About 3 after it got to the patrolmen.
Since I have a cell I was sent to the Sheriff's department.
Since I live in town when the found my location they moved me over to the city where I had to start over again. Fortunately it wasn't a life threatening situation. (break in in a empty house next door).
If it had been a dangerous situation I would have, for all practical purposes, been on my own.

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Government ranges from a necessary evil to an intolerable one. Thomas Paine

People don't believe they can defend themselves because they have guns, they have guns because they believe they can defend themselves.

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RE: A Society Of Bystanders - 1/6/2015 11:11:06 AM

Musicmystery

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Had it been a dangerous situation, they'd have handled it differently.

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Post #: 97