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RE: Woman Sexually Abuses Teenage Boy -- What Say You? - 1/8/2015 4:39:42 PM   
Musicmystery


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Status: offline 		Just to be clear, that's cloudboy's take, not mine, despite his assumption including me.

(in reply to littleladybug)
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RE: Woman Sexually Abuses Teenage Boy -- What Say You? - 1/8/2015 4:41:49 PM   
LiveSpark


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quote:

ORIGINAL: cloudboy

What happened is the boy told his parents, and that led to a shit storm and charges for the woman.

Somewhat like MM, I see this through sexist eyes and not a technical, legal prizm. I don't really think a woman abuses a boy with kisses, blow jobs, and invitations for intercourse. But, I do think a man abuses a girl when the roles are reversed, and I think man abuses a boy. (Don't ask me if a Woman could abuse a girl, that makes my head hurt, but I've never read/heard of such a thing.)

Like MM, I'm trying to see the hardship and damages here. Legalities aside -- how has he been abused?


Why on earth would it be abuse only abuse if the genders are reversed? Also it doesn't matter if he had the time of his life legally she committed a crime if this is true. THAT is the real issue. She had sex - and yes a BJ is having sex - with an minor, that is against the law.

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RE: Woman Sexually Abuses Teenage Boy -- What Say You? - 1/8/2015 4:44:29 PM   
cloudboy


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The BALTIMORE SUN makes the case for abuse here:

http://www.baltimoresun.com/news/opinion/editorial/bs-ed-shattuck-20141106-story.html

-------

Well, you need to explain to me why it is abuse. The SUN takes a crack at it, but it only speaks in general platitudes and cites no actual examples of scarred for life teenage boys who've been touched, kissed, and fondled by an older woman. It seems more a theoretical construct than actual reality.


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RE: Woman Sexually Abuses Teenage Boy -- What Say You? - 1/8/2015 4:45:22 PM   
DesFIP


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From: Apple County NY
Status: offline 		Damn straight it's abuse. You could give a teen alcohol and take them joyriding, the fact that they'd love it wouldn't change the facts.

If you look at studies of teen boys who have been seduced by older women, there is a tendency for them to have trouble having normal relationships thereafter. Males sexually are like ducklings, their first experience imprints on them. You think he's going to look back at this as though it was nirvana when he can't enter into a relationship unless he's made to be unable to consent and then used?

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RE: Woman Sexually Abuses Teenage Boy -- What Say You? - 1/8/2015 4:45:50 PM   
ExiledTyrant


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quote:

ORIGINAL: cloudboy

Like MM, I'm trying to see the hardship and damages here. Legalities aside -- how has he been abused?


I'm not going to have the popular opinion here... considering the site and all, but here goes.

The boy is still learning what kind of relationship partner he is to be. For the past few years he has been discovering many things, courting, dating, and seduction. He had the opportunity to refine these skills and hone them into a functional repertoire for his future relationships. If the allegations are true, those fine skills have been critically damaged. She now has became his sexual relationship model, and that model threw it all at him and potentially instilled in him a sense of sexual entitlement.

Yep, my view is not the popular one, mainly because I feel that youngins should date a LOT, under supervision so they can learn what kind of partner they want to be and the kind of partner that they want to have. Furthermore, I hammered abstinence until marriage into my ums because I wanted to increase their odds of remaining married without the taint of forbidden fruit to give them an unrealistic basis of comparison... as Oral Roberts said about the poor, if they never had steak they won't miss it.

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RE: Woman Sexually Abuses Teenage Boy -- What Say You? - 1/8/2015 4:47:44 PM   
cloudboy


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Yes, you're right, legally he was abused.

If we wiped the law away -- would he be abused and damaged? If yes, how so?

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RE: Woman Sexually Abuses Teenage Boy -- What Say You? - 1/8/2015 4:48:05 PM   
littleladybug


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quote:

ORIGINAL: cloudboy


The BALTIMORE SUN makes the case for abuse here:

http://www.baltimoresun.com/news/opinion/editorial/bs-ed-shattuck-20141106-story.html

-------

Well, you need to explain to me why it is abuse. The SUN takes a crack at it, but it only speaks in general platitudes and cites no actual examples of scarred for life teenage boys who've been touched, kissed, and fondled by an older woman. It seems more a theoretical construct than actual reality.





Um, no, I don't need to explain anything. My question to you was why do YOU not see this as the same is if the roles were reversed, or if it was man on boy?

Which brings up the point. WHY is it abuse if it is man on boy, and not woman on boy? Isn't it that same 15 year old kid with the 15 year old psyche? Sex is sex, isn't it?

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RE: Woman Sexually Abuses Teenage Boy -- What Say You? - 1/8/2015 4:49:38 PM   
LiveSpark


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quote:

ORIGINAL: cloudboy


Yes, you're right, legally he was abused.

If we wiped the law away -- would he be abused and damaged? If yes, how so?


I have no idea, I don't know him. Regardless it's moot because it IS illegal.

_____________________________

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I also have the sarcasm gene which is NOT to be taken seriously.

If you fall I'll always be there to catch you ~ Floor

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RE: Woman Sexually Abuses Teenage Boy -- What Say You? - 1/8/2015 4:51:08 PM   
Musicmystery


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quote:

ORIGINAL: DesFIP

Damn straight it's abuse. You could give a teen alcohol and take them joyriding, the fact that they'd love it wouldn't change the facts.

If you look at studies of teen boys who have been seduced by older women, there is a tendency for them to have trouble having normal relationships thereafter. Males sexually are like ducklings, their first experience imprints on them. You think he's going to look back at this as though it was nirvana when he can't enter into a relationship unless he's made to be unable to consent and then used?

Show me ANY credible study that shows that.

(in reply to DesFIP)
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RE: Woman Sexually Abuses Teenage Boy -- What Say You? - 1/8/2015 4:52:14 PM   
Musicmystery


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quote:

ORIGINAL: ExiledTyrant


quote:

ORIGINAL: cloudboy

Like MM, I'm trying to see the hardship and damages here. Legalities aside -- how has he been abused?


I'm not going to have the popular opinion here... considering the site and all, but here goes.

The boy is still learning what kind of relationship partner he is to be. For the past few years he has been discovering many things, courting, dating, and seduction. He had the opportunity to refine these skills and hone them into a functional repertoire for his future relationships. If the allegations are true, those fine skills have been critically damaged. She now has became his sexual relationship model, and that model threw it all at him and potentially instilled in him a sense of sexual entitlement.

Yep, my view is not the popular one, mainly because I feel that youngins should date a LOT, under supervision so they can learn what kind of partner they want to be and the kind of partner that they want to have. Furthermore, I hammered abstinence until marriage into my ums because I wanted to increase their odds of remaining married without the taint of forbidden fruit to give them an unrealistic basis of comparison... as Oral Roberts said about the poor, if they never had steak they won't miss it.

All that from one adventure?

Damn.

(in reply to ExiledTyrant)
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RE: Woman Sexually Abuses Teenage Boy -- What Say You? - 1/8/2015 4:53:23 PM   
Musicmystery


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quote:

ORIGINAL: littleladybug
Sex is sex, isn't it?

In my experience, it can vary widely.

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RE: Woman Sexually Abuses Teenage Boy -- What Say You? - 1/8/2015 4:54:11 PM   
littleladybug


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Musicmystery


quote:

ORIGINAL: littleladybug
Sex is sex, isn't it?

In my experience, it can vary widely.


Fascinating.

(in reply to Musicmystery)
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RE: Woman Sexually Abuses Teenage Boy -- What Say You? - 1/8/2015 4:58:51 PM   
MistresskittyBBW


Posts: 8
Joined: 11/7/2014
Status: offline 		This is why male rape survivors have a harder time being taken seriously.
Comments like "I would have loved it" are based off male gender stereotypes that portray sex being the most important thing in the world, and that you're somehow weak or inferior if you're not getting any or reject it.

What happened is that a child was taken advantage of by somebody who abused their position of trust. The age of consent (at least here) is 16. That means if you're below that age, you're unable to make an informed, consenting choice of whether or not to have sex. Never mind the alcohol on top of that which also impares judgement.
Regardless of whether he enjoyed it, it is still rape/sexual abuse. Statutory or otherwise. The fact that he decided to leave suggests he was possibly uncomfortable with it having taken place.
It's damaging because this child is going to grow up and realise he was the victim of abuse. I'm sure we don't need to go into the stigma surrounding that.

(in reply to cloudboy)
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RE: Woman Sexually Abuses Teenage Boy -- What Say You? - 1/8/2015 4:59:52 PM   
cloudboy


Posts: 7306
Joined: 12/14/2005
Status: offline 		Well you and DESFIP are at least trying to make the actual case for abuse instead of falling back on the black letter law. The question is, what's the rationale behind the law, and is it valid. I think you make some good points.

Why, though, would a high percentage of men, myself included, be skeptical that this is abuse. The acts are not abusive, but somehow the woman's age makes them so. One might credibly argue that an older experienced woman would be a better guide than another teenage girl.

My views of abuse shift with my perspective, rightly or wrongly. As a parent, I don't like this set of facts at all. As an individual putting myself in the place of the boy, I am opened minded. If the perpetrator is a man and the victim a girl or boy -- I'm very closed minded and abuse-conclusory.

< Message edited by cloudboy -- 1/8/2015 5:01:28 PM >

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RE: Woman Sexually Abuses Teenage Boy -- What Say You? - 1/8/2015 5:01:33 PM   
GoddessManko


Posts: 2257
Joined: 3/6/2013
From: Dante's Inferno
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: ExiledTyrant

I'm not going to have the popular opinion here... considering the site and all, but here goes.

The boy is still learning what kind of relationship partner he is to be. For the past few years he has been discovering many things, courting, dating, and seduction. He had the opportunity to refine these skills and hone them into a functional repertoire for his future relationships. If the allegations are true, those fine skills have been critically damaged. She now has became his sexual relationship model, and that model threw it all at him and potentially instilled in him a sense of sexual entitlement.

Yep, my view is not the popular one, mainly because I feel that youngins should date a LOT, under supervision so they can learn what kind of partner they want to be and the kind of partner that they want to have. Furthermore, I hammered abstinence until marriage into my ums because I wanted to increase their odds of remaining married without the taint of forbidden fruit to give them an unrealistic basis of comparison... as Oral Roberts said about the poor, if they never had steak they won't miss it.

This. Sexual/ romantic encounters with women leave their mark on men. She has damaged him greatly as an authority figure and someone who took advantage of this vulnerable stage of his life. If the roles were reversed, same thing. He now thinks this is "OK" and "normal". The sad thing is if the genders were reversed, people would be up in arms. *Shakes my head*. Ah, life, you're funny.
I am not remotely close to the person I was at 16. At 19 I was not remotely close to the person I was at 16. An adult having an attraction for someone who is underaged is abnormal, defective. Nature made a mistake. It is not romantic or sweet, it is predatory and criminal. Many young high schoolers at my gym "check me out". I never talk to them unless we ask "are you using this machine?" None of them look adult to me, ew.


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RE: Woman Sexually Abuses Teenage Boy -- What Say You? - 1/8/2015 5:03:14 PM   
littleladybug


Posts: 1082
Joined: 5/30/2013
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quote:

ORIGINAL: cloudboy


Why, though, would a high percentage of men, myself included, be skeptical that his is abuse. The acts are not abusive, but somehow the woman's age makes them so. One might credibly argue that an older experienced woman would be a better guide than another teenage girl.




One might also "credibly argue" that an older more experienced man would be a "better guide" than a teenage boy, right?

I mean, that's one I've heard quite a bit. So, must have some sort of truth to it, no?




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RE: Woman Sexually Abuses Teenage Boy -- What Say You? - 1/8/2015 5:08:31 PM   
LiveSpark


Posts: 808
Joined: 12/25/2014
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quote:

ORIGINAL: cloudboy

Well you and DESFIP are at least trying to make the actual case for abuse instead of falling back on the black letter law. The question is, what's the rationale behind the law, and is it valid. I think you make some good points.

Why, though, would a high percentage of men, myself included, be skeptical that this is abuse. The acts are not abusive, but somehow the woman's age makes them so. One might credibly argue that an older experienced woman would be a better guide than another teenage girl.

My views of abuse shift with my perspective, rightly or wrongly. As a parent, I don't like this set of facts at all. As an individual putting myself in the place of the boy, I am opened minded. If the perpetrator is a man and the victim a girl or boy -- I'm very closed minded and abuse-conclusory.


I cannot make that distinction, to me abuse is abuse is abuse whether the abuser/victim is male or female. I see no difference between a man abusing a child and a woman doing the same thing. As kitty said male abuse victims have a hard enough time dealing with and reporting their abuse. People not even seeing it as abuse simply by virtue of the gender of their abuser doesn't help.

_____________________________

I've been here as MontrealPhoenix, zephyr and
TheFireWithinMe.

I also have the sarcasm gene which is NOT to be taken seriously.

If you fall I'll always be there to catch you ~ Floor

(in reply to cloudboy)
Profile   Post #: 37
RE: Woman Sexually Abuses Teenage Boy -- What Say You? - 1/8/2015 5:21:04 PM   
cloudboy


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Yes. My general take on this is that Parents write the rules and want their children protected and want to avoid all gray areas on the subject. I won't argue any of that.

But, if an adult and teenager washed up on an Island with no rules -- the question of abuse would not be a general rule or parental guidelines or ages -- the question of abuse would be individual to the participants. And, the difference in ages might actually be a plus in the equation.


(in reply to littleladybug)
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RE: Woman Sexually Abuses Teenage Boy -- What Say You? - 1/8/2015 5:23:15 PM   
littleladybug


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Joined: 5/30/2013
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quote:

ORIGINAL: cloudboy

But, if an adult and teenager washed up on an Island with no rules -- the question of abuse would not be a general rule or parental guidelines or ages -- the question of abuse would be individual to the participants. And, the difference in ages might actually be a plus in the equation.




Fair enough. But, why the distinction between man/girl and the other scenarios in your mind? Why is this line drawn?

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RE: Woman Sexually Abuses Teenage Boy -- What Say You? - 1/8/2015 5:24:45 PM   
MissToYouRedux


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quote:

ORIGINAL: cloudboy

...
But, if an adult and teenager washed up on an Island with no rules -- the question of abuse would not be a general rule or parental guidelines or ages -- the question of abuse would be individual to the participants. And, the difference in ages might actually be a plus in the equation.




You forgot to add your before-mentioned qualifications that the younger needs to be male and the older needs to be female.


** edited to wave at littleladybug. Great minds and all that. ;)

< Message edited by MissToYouRedux -- 1/8/2015 5:28:59 PM >

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